Broken Base Cleanup

There are certainly people who hate his voice fervently. Those people are not part of the fanbase, because you can't exactly enjoy the character without listening to his voice.

Well technically, there are Donald Duck comics where you don't hear his voice.

Fair enough, I suppose. From what I've seen, though, the people who prefer them are always talking about the stories. I've never once heard a comics fan say, "And it's the only version I like because of the voice."

Considering just how huge Donald is as a character and how many fans he has, the flame wars would have to be massive for issues about his voice to qualify for Broken Base.

Also this.

I was wondering if I could add the "Mineta hate" topic to the Broken Base page of My Hero Academia (or the Base-Breaking Character trope). Mineta obviously does have a big Scrappy status, but he also has fans that both admire his few awesome moments that he has, and believe that some gags of his are Actually Pretty Funny. I also seen some that have gotten tired on the amount of hate he gets on certain sites like AO 3 and Tumblr (even on You Tube, one hate-filled rant video on Mineta by Dorkly had plenty of people defending the character.)

It seems to fulfill all 4 requirements, but I'm not sure if I should do it now, or wait and see if the manga will give Mineta a scene that will bring his popularity up; what do you guys think?

Deleted the examples on the Donald Duck page for the reasons mentioned.

I don't think you need to wait for the scene that brings him up, in case it never comes along.

I want to bring the examples from YMMV.Young Justice because those are mostly shoehorned general reception or one sided criticism. There are also way too many Base Breaking Characters but I'll deal with them latter.

In the "General" folder:

• Broken Base:
  • Some fans of the Young Justice comics give this show flak for causing the above displacement, particularly because it's using the name while being closer in sensibility to the more serious Teen Titans comics. In the same way, the Teen Titans cartoon is closer to the less serious Young Justice comics, and caught some flak of its own for that. Still, roster additions in season 2 increased the number of Young Justice comics characters.
  • Related to this, the more serious tone compared to the Teen Titans cartoon is the key or overarching issue some fans have, since many other issues they have ultimately stem from it, and they see Teen Titans as just more "fun". Others prefer the more serious tone because Teen Titans was too lighthearted much of the time for them. This became Hilarious in Hindsight when Teen Titans Go! (a comedy show, unlike the others) drew a lot of flak for not being the proper Teen Titans revival the fans wanted^note Though it was finally teased in Teen Titans Go! To the Movies and Young Justice characters were used in a Self-Deprecation episode to tell the Titans off.

The first point is basically They Changed It, Now It Sucks!. Some fans of the comics dislike the animated show because it's an In Name Only adaptation. It doesn't even mention a debate.

The second point is a Fandom Rivalry. Some Teen titans fans don't like Young Justice because it's too serious while some don't like Teen Titans because it's too lighthearted. The TT fans who dislike YJ are not YJ fans and are not part of the fanbase period.

In the "Seasons 1 and 2: A-G" folder:

• Broken Base:
  • Fans were divided in Season 1, particularly early on, over the characterization of the teen heroes (and side characters such as Superman) due to their personalities, and the emphasis on hormonal interactions. Some enjoyed seeing the cast bounce off each other while others thought they were annoying and suffered from Romantic Plot Tumors. Everyone also had a tendency to spout catchphrases, and some fans thought this was harmless while others found this grating. Miss Martian's "Hellooo, Megan!" was a Most Annoying Sound for some, though it turned out to be plot-relevant. Factor in comparisons with previous DC shows, particularly Teen Titans, and the slow-burn plot with the villains' byzantine plotting (made to feel even slower-burning by the constant unexplained hiatuses) and you get a whole lot of Internet Backdraft, with some really loving it or hating it.
  • The Season 2 Time Skip divided fans over the new characters replacing most of the old team, as well by as its very nature. It's either a hackneyed plot device that only leaves them wanting more of the old team as they were, or an awesome way to hit the ground running plot-wise and introduce more DC characters who wouldn't be the right age in season 1. The fans remained divided for the duration of Season 2 over the Gambit Pileup of the heroes and villains, as the plot grew more and more complicated with more and more new characters being introduced, including a new villainous faction, the Reach. Some also felt that gradually revealing what'd happened over the previous 5 years gave the current events more impact and others thinking those past events would've been far more interesting if they'd been shown in chronological order and if not for the fact that half of them we only got told about rather than being shown at all.

The first point is basically general reception of the first season by simply listing what people like or dislike. The "particularly early on" means that it's probably not a sustained conflict who lasted 6 months. Again fans of the "previous DC shows" who hate YJ are not fans of the latter show period. I don't think there are genuine YJ fans who only like season 2 and dislike season 1 in its entirety.

The second point is maybe more salvageable but I'm wary about how lasting and sustained the division about season 2 was since the reception was mostly positive (aside from the fact that it was Cut Short).

Edited by Silverblade2 on Jan 28th 2019 at 10:03:58 AM

Some wise guy called Thetropemaster 101 re-added a Broken Base entry to Spider-Man: Homecoming. The one about "the movie as a whole", I mean. No discussion, no justification, nothing. Sent them a message asking why and provided a link to this thread to get them here. Dunno why they'd do this.

Geez, that entry is bad. Even opens with "For some..."

Cut it.

I believe all those examples were put in during the early airing of the show and are gut reactions.

I remember when I brought up the Spider-Man: Homecoming examples way back when there were like fifteen entries for the film, and I managed to trim it down to four that are currently present. And even that might be too many for a single film. As I brought up before during that discussion, the movie is mostly well-regarded by both fans and critics, and the dissenters are really in equal numbers to them. Cut it.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 30th 2019 at 3:04:17 PM

In addition to the above, I'm pretty sure that this editor has come up before (in ATT?) as rather suspicious.

Correct; the search bar brings up this thread and this thread, and Thetropemaster's own queries can be problematic as well, as seen here and here.

Edit: It looks like Thetropemaster 101 is the one who originally added it, so this is an edit war.

Edit: I reported it on ATT.

Correction: Someone else originally added it; what happened is Thetropemaster restored it twice.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 30th 2019 at 11:22:42 AM

Well, good news is, I re-deleted it and we can rest assured it won't be repeated. At least so long as Thetropemaster 101 stays suspended and/or gets the message.

Ah, well. They're the ones who'll get permanently banned if they keep pushing the issue. I just hope the headache that would have to ensue for us isn't too exhausting.

From YMMV.Gabriel Iglesias.

Broken Base: In regards to Gabriel's weight loss, some fans are happy to see Gabriel bettering himself for his friends and family, and still are confident in his comedy even as he becomes less "fluffy", meanwhile, there are fans who fear that his weight loss means he'll no longer be the "fluffy comic". To his credit, Gabriel is well aware of this issue and has gone on record multiple times that no matter how much weight he loses, that so much crazy stuff happens in his life that he will never run out of funny stuff to talk about on stage.

Issue with troping his real life instead of his comedy material. Granted, his weight is part of his material. Plus, there really shouldn't be a BB on a person's health.

That example doesn't describe a broken base. It describes some people being happy for him, and some people who fear it might affect his performance. That does not describe a fandom war in any way whatsoever.

Edited by AnotherDuck on Feb 2nd 2019 at 11:11:26 AM

Gotta clean'em all, Pokemon!

• Broken Base: The Pokémon fanbase is so large and diverse that it's difficult to find a real consensus on almost anything. Here are some of the more notable divides:
  • The fanbase is hugely divided over which generation is best, and with every new addition (or lack thereof) to the series, many people cry the entire franchise (or just a generation) ruined.
    • "Favorite installment wars" are absolutely a thing, but does that fit under Broken Base?
  • Even playing the games divides the fans. Either you play competitively and are "taking the game too seriously", or you play for fun and "can't understand the subtle mathematics of the game".
    • aka Casual-Competitive Conflict . I vote for just adding that to the ymmv page and cutting it from this section
  • On places like DeviantArt and YouTube, the fanbase is extremely divided over whether the anime or Pokémon Special is the better series based off of the games.
    • I've never seen any wars about this given how Pokemon Special is so much more obscure.
  • Fans are also divided over whether the main series should go in a more story-driven direction like Generation V and Generation VII, or stick to an excuse plot like the older games and Generation VI, and make the game more about catching 'em all and exploration. There's also a divide between those who care more about what goes on during the main story campaign to those who care more about competitive battling ^note You usually only have access to the tools needed to create competitive monsters only after completing the main story, which can be a huge slog for those who only pick up the game for the competitive battling aspect.
    • Seems valid, but the "Story driven vs. Exploration and catching" and "Main campaign vs. Competitive postgame" should probably be split into two different entries
  • Are version-exclusive contents totally fair or blatantly one-sided? Groudon's and Yveltal's severe disadvantage against Kyogre and Xerneas respectively, the version-exclusive Mega Evolutions (especially Mega Charizard X), and White 2 players only getting Easy Mode are some of the examples. While such content can be traded between games, one really has to wonder if the trade-off is really fair to begin with if one version is clearly inferior to the other.
    • Sounds fringe to me. There might be one or two specific cases of genuine imbalance, but overall most versions seem pretty even and it just comes down to taste.
  • There is a notable Broken Base as to the Pokémon's cries, due to how they differ across incarnations. Fans argue over whether the synthesized animal noises of the games, the Pokémon Speak of the anime and numerous spinoffs, or the voiced animal noises of Pokémon Origins and the B2W2 animated trailer are the best and should be used in media. Pokémon Speak is usually the most widely-criticized, which may have led to the aforementioned voiced animal cries in Origins; however, some have noted that part of the fanbase's aversion to Pokémon Speak is due to its association with the main anime itself and all the divisive elements that come with it, as some fans find it slightly more tolerable in Super Smash Bros. and the Mega Evolution specials.
    • Sounds fringe to me, but I'll hold out for some second opinions
  • For your own sake, it's best you don't get into a debate regarding whether or not "Pokémon" and the species' names should be capitalized when referring to the creatures. For example, is it proper to say "My strongest Pokémon is a Pikachu", "My strongest pokémon is a pikachu", or something in-between? It's a very hot-button issue in the fanfic community.^note To elaborate, those opposed to capitalization argue that since you don't capitalize words like "animal", "cat", "dog", or similar, you shouldn't capitalize the word "pokémon" or any of the species names. The people in favor of capitalization point out that the words are capitalized in canon, so it would make sense to capitalize them in fanfiction. Most writers don't care either way, but some are very adamant about how they think it should work.
    • Related to this the Pronoun Trouble that occurs when referring to certain Pokémon. Is it appropriate to use "It", or go with gender-indicating pronouns, especially in regards to Pokémon that are One Gender Races (especially since there's more then one individual).
      • Blatantly a fringe issue without any warring. Easy cut.
  • A common argument among the fandom is whether dragon-like Pokémon that aren't Dragon-type, such as (non-Mega X) Charizard, Gyarados, and (non-Mega) Sceptile, count as dragons or not, and whether they were intended to be dragons in the first place. Arguments of this type usually escalate into both sides going at each other's throats. As far as canon is concerned, Charizard in particular has been stated to not be a dragon in the Japanese version of the anime (which was changed to "Dragon-type" in the dub), but is otherwise treated as a dragon in various games and has been indirectly labeled as one in Super Smash Bros.^note in the descriptions for two Event Matches, it's in the Dragon egg group, some of its foreign names are derived from the respective word for "dragon", and Mega Charizard X is very unambiguously a classic European dragon. This video has more on the issue, and concludes that the lack of Dragon typing was simply in order to prevent Charizard from being overpowered (similar arguments can apply to Gyarados and Sceptile). The issue isn't limited to dragonlike Pokémon, as there are other species with appearances, habits and movepools that defy their typing, such as the fairylike Celebi not being Fairy-type, the antlion-based Trapinch line not being Bug-type despite being in the Bug egg group, and quite a few aquatic Pokémon (such as Lugia, Stunfisk and Dragalge) not being Water-type.
    • Fringe issue. Cut.
  • Any time a mechanic or content featured in the tail-end game(s) of a generation (such as Move Tutors that teach a wider variety of moves or a greater/more readily-accessible amount of Mega Evolutions) is removed from the first two games of the next one, often only to be added back in when that gen's tail-end games are released. Some defend this practice as Game Freak has to convince people to buy the next games somehow, and it gives them the opportunity to improve on the first two. Others find it to be an egregious case of planned obsolesence (why bother buying the first two games when there'll always be an Updated Re-release or rough equivalent that'll have more things in it?), and point out that taking something out of a game only to add it back into a new game later on does not an improvement make.
    • Don't know.
  • There is a growing divide within the fanbase ever since Gen V and the perceived direction of the franchise, with several things being a point of contention. Major changes in creative direction were made twice — first in Gen V, then in Gen VI, the latter lasting through Gen VII — and both times evoked mixed reactions in the fanbase, with different demographics.
    • Generation V was the first generation to see significant change for the Pokémon franchise, mostly with a focus on deeper lore and more developed characters and stories, as well as a completely new, self-contained regional Pokédex with no older species. However, the games were met with glowing praise by some fans and apathy from others, resulting in lower sales than Gen IV; many of the changes and innovations Gen V introduced fell by the wayside in the subsequent (and differently polarizing) 3DS entries. Some fans (especially overzealous supporters of the generation) believe Gen V to be perfect and point to "genwunners" as the main or sole reason why its innovations fell by the wayside. Others believe that the games' novelty was undermined by some of their creative decisions being out of touch with the fanbase at large — such as with the extremely polarizing Unova Pokédex of Pokémon Black and White — and that Game Freak misattributed the blame to fans not liking Gen V in general, resulting in future games distancing themselves from Gen V as a whole. Others still believe Gen V to not have been as innovative or groundbreaking at many people claimed, and in fact that its weak attempts at being "different" were already signs of Pokémon being desperate for new ideas and continuing along its path of being a Franchise Zombie — and that, in fact, the games tried so hard to be different that they ended up alienating fans of the classic formula and Pokémon species.
    • Generations VI and VII marked a general shift towards streamlined, casualized and linear main plots, gimmicks such as Mega Evolution and Z-Moves, larger regional Pokédexes that rely heavily on past generations (especially Gen I), and more user-friendly competitive breeding and training in favor of fewer postgame features. Some fans highly enjoyed these changes, as shown by the greater sales and mainstream attention of games from Pokémon X and Y onwards; the increased focus on classic Pokémon helped win back many fans who were alienated by the Unova games, and many fans highly appreciated how Game Freak finally acknowledged and helped players deal with Guide Dang It! competitive mechanics like EV's and IV's. Other fans did not enjoy this new direction for the franchise, mostly for making the games less engaging for fans invested in single-player campaigns, sidequests/exploration, and postgame facilities. This divide wasn't at all helped by the many design and technical flubs in the Gen VI and VII games, such as highly inefficient programming (resulting in framerate drops) and oversights in Pokémon movesets and mechanics. Overall, fans in the latter category accused the games of transitioning from self-contained creative endeavors to an unpolished, Merchandise-Driven arm meant to advertise the rest of the franchise and establish Pokémon as marketing icons, much like the anime.^note Coincidentally, the anime saw an overall bump in quality at that time, but suffered from many of the same complaints, leading to accusations that effort was "divided more evenly" between the anime and games than before.
      • I'm not even really sure what this is trying to say besides "these are contested sequels"
  • Datamining, the act of going through the game's code to suss out every secret and tidbit the game has on file. On one hand, people appreciate plumbing the depths of the game's coding because so many mechanics on how the game functions is largely unexplained by the game itself^note Without datamining, things such as Pokémon stats, movepools, egg groups, effort values and individual values would be completely unknown as they are intentionally kept secret by the developers to make the experience more "organic". On the other hand, it also inadvertently reveals a great number of spoilers (story related or Pokémon related), who some people unscrupulously post everywhere upon revelation. Its nearly impossible to go into the newest generation of games completely blind unless you've actively avoided all social media or the internet in general (which is increasingly harder to do as time goes on). It also spoils when things such as a new mythical Pokémon is officially revealed by the company; the fanbase already found out about it months in advance, thus the shock factor of the reveal that the company wanted is completely lost. A portion of the fanbase feel the need to put on a Kayfabe of sorts (pretending that the information isn't known) while a portion does not and treat the spoilers as common knowledge (without consideration for those who do not want to be spoiled). It also puts fan websites, wikis (including this one), gaming news sites and YouTube channels in a bind where their creators and maintainers want to enjoy the product spoiler-free but need to post something about the revealed information.
    • Sounds fringe to me.
  • The growing number of Legendary/Mythical Pokémon over the years has caused some to believe that there are so many of them (some even filling the same "roles" as older ones), that the term "Legendary" has lost all meaning. A portion of fans tend to look the other way for one reason or another (be it the competetive viability of Legendaries like Heatran and the Tapu, or categorizing each gen's Legendaries into "pantheons").
    • Probably cut. I might just be putting words in the fanbase's mouth, but I think most people think that "YES, there are too many Legendaries lately!" Although how much so seems to vary from game to game.
    • A related debate is the nature of Legendary species — should they be Single Specimen Species (with multiple members existing being a bad idea that cheapens them), or should their reappearance in multiple games be a sign that more than one exists? Some split the difference by applying the former belief to "major" mascot Legendaries, and the latter to "minor" ones like Articuno.^note Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee! supports this with multiple Legendary Birds being up for capture. Others staunchly stand by the former opinion, even in the face of official material and openly non-unique Legendaries like the Cosmog line. And when discussing the topic in relation to Mewtwo (and a very controversial movie's stance), tread carefully.
      • Fringe.

Edited by mrbits on Feb 8th 2019 at 6:38:11 AM

Figured Steven Universe could use some trimming.

• Early in the show's run, it was increasingly debated by fans as more episodes came out whether or not Greg is actually a better role model than the Gems for a variety of reasons. The Gems themselves even question if they're capable of teaching Steven and providing for him in "The Test".
  • Says itself "early in the show's run". Haven't seen anything like this, and it's a canonical fact that the Gems really did not know what they were doing at first, and while they have Gem stuff, Greg handles human stuff and things that Steven doesn't feel comfortable telling the Gems about. Cut.
• The fandom is split over what, exactly, fusion is a metaphor for. Some argue that it's a straightforward metaphor for sex, and others see it as a metaphor for any and all kinds of intimacy within relationships, including friendly and familial ones (aided by Steven and Amethyst fusing in a moment of mutual understanding and support, more akin to sibling relationships). Which view you subscribe to will understandably affect how you think about Steven fusing with any of the Gems or with Connie, though Word of God has stated that it's the latter.
  • I think the people who believe Fusion is sex have become a minority at this point, if not for the various Word of God repeatedly saying it isn't, then for the aforementioned concepts of Steven fusing with the Gems or Connie. It's also listed on the main YMMV page as a Fandom Berserk Button, so cut.
• The idea of a male Gem appearing on the show has the fanbase split. According to Word of God, the Gems are a race that have no gender whatsoever. Conceivably this could mean that all of the Gems shown so far have just coincidentally decided to take the form of females and could just as easily be male. Some fans would like to see a male Gem, while others are strongly against the idea. Discussion of the topic sometimes results in feuds between fans. Some also argue that Steven is a male Gem while others state that, because he's half-human, he's not technically a full Gem. And then there is the issue of Amethyst's transformations as a "dumb policeman", a wrestler and (along with Garnet) as Steven count as male forms or simply female forms that look male (although an official guide suggests the former).
  • Don't really have an option on this one. I think it fits.
• Peridot's Heel–Face Turn in "Message Received" and whether or not it happened too fast. Some feel that it contradicted her characterization in the previous episode, where she still didn't understand why the Gems wouldn't want the Earth hollowed out, and that it doesn't make sense for her to insult Yellow Diamond to her face given how much she worshiped her. Others feel that it does make sense, and Peridot turning against Yellow Diamond may have been not so much out of appreciation for Earth as it was Yellow Diamond showing she wasn't as logical as Peridot believed.
  • Haven't seen anyone say this since the episode premiered. Cut.
• Predictably, Lapis/Jasper is one of the most popular ships in the fandom. But since it is a toxic, unhealthy relationship, it has a very prominent hatedom with the reasoning that it's glorifying abuse. It became even more polarizing after "Alone at Sea".
  • I think the only, very few times I've seen this genuinely shipped is post-the two talking it out/in AUs where Malachite never happened. Cut?
• There's been a heavy backlash against Rule 34 (not exclusive to this fandom, but getting a lot of steam here), mostly for the fear of making it difficult for the intended audience of children to search for show online without coming across adult content, as has happened with My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic (also tying into Fandom Rivalry.) It varies from "keep it on a separate tag" to "drawing porn of a children's show is basically pedophilia." That said, this fandom is definitely not short of smut, and according to Ian JQ, the crew is not only okay with it but "the writers room talks we have about the actual canon is waaaay sicker than stuff I see on tumblr. So shine on you crazy diamonds. Get weird."
  • Don't have any opinions on this one. The MLP reference needs to be removed, though. Pretty sure that rivalry died ages ago.
• Because Garnet is literally the embodiment of a lesbian relationship, many fans see Garnet as a lesbian herself. But her statement of "Three's a crowd" in "Love Letters" has led to many interpreting her as an aromantic asexual, with the argument that Ruby and Sapphire are lesbians but Garnet is not, and may see any ships involving Garnet as erasure. Debates around this can get heated.
  • Don't have any opinions, though I think I've seen more people see her as a lesbian.
• In "Barn Mates", many viewers felt that Lapis was being unreasonably cruel to Peridot by refusing to even consider she's changed. Many other viewers felt Peridot was Easily Forgiven and the episode gave a Broken Aesop of how victims aren't allowed to be angry at those who hurt them if it's at the expense of their friends, especially after Peridot apologized to Amethyst for being Innocently Insensitive in an earlier episode.
  • Lapis and Peridot's new friendship has even caused contention with Lapis fans. Some love it for Peridot being sensitive and respectful to Lapis' trauma and doing her best to help her recover after Malachite, while others are still upset that Peridot was forgiven for hurting Lapis so quickly and feel like Lapis' Character Development, especially with the other Crystal Gems, has been rushed.
    • Ehh, don't really know about this one. That bit of Lapis having rushed Character Development needs to be removed though, 'cause it reeks of Examples Are Not Recent.
• The episodes following "Alone at Sea" have brought more character and plot development. However, these episodes have caused a divide in the fandom, depending on whether or not you find the episodes to be too "rushed" or not. Some fans don't mind it or don't notice it and are just happy to see what the episodes give. Others think the episodes cram too much into the last few minutes without lingering on them long enough. The most obvious examples being the ones where Jasper makes an appearance as most of the time she would only show up within the last few minutes despite the show clearly making a far bigger deal regarding her presence.
  • Haven't seen anyone talk about this, and the plot episodes of Summer of Steven are generally regarded as the better ones. Cut.
  • Related to the above example, discussions on if the episodes focused on humans that sometimes don't even feature the Crystal Gems should be considered filler or not can get rather heated. Episodes like "The New Lars", "Kiki's Pizza Delivery Service", and "Future Boy Zoltron" are among the biggest points of contention. People against this will mention that Word of God stated that there's no such thing as filler episodes, while people who think that they are claim that such a statement is a case of Show, Don't Tell.
    • Keep, but maybe merge with the "The continued addition of Beach City episodes" bullet below.
• Pearl's crush on Mystery Girl. While most fans are genuinely enthusiastic about the potential relationship and are intrigued about how it will play out, their opinions on Pearl's crush differ. Some fans think it's cute and a sign that she's finally gotten over Rose, especially since Mystery Girl and Rose seem worlds different, but other fans cite that fact that she looks similar to Rose and she crushed on her without ever getting a full word in with her until the end of the episode as the reason why it's so skeevy, and see it as Pearl not truly moving on. Others simply dislike the idea that an ephemeral, fleeting relationship with a human is something Pearl needs fresh off of losing Rose.
  • Need a second opinion for this one. For what it's worth, this was MG's only major appearance, and Pearl/Mystery Girl is/was a Fan-Preferred Couple.
• Malachite is an obvious metaphor for an abusive relationship, but as the show's portrayal is a little nuanced and ambiguous, the fandom is often split on which of the components was the abusive one. While Jasper's treatment of Lapis has been consistently aggressive and the "I can change" line from "Alone at Sea" is commonly attributed to abusers, Lapis was the one in control of the Fusion and in the episode mentioned "being terrible to [Jasper]" and taking everything out on her. Some fans claim that Jasper in "Alone at Sea" was manipulating Lapis into thinking she was in the wrong, others claim that Jasper is only considered the abuser because of her unfeminine traits while Lapis is more traditionally feminine, and some even claim it was mutually abusive. Debates about this get very heated, to say the least.
  • From what I've heard, it's indeed incredibly divisive. Keep.
• The continued choice of telling the entire show from Steven's viewpoint. Some fans find it appropriate, since the show is titled after him, and the fact that we don't see how other characters behave when he isn't present makes it a little more realistic (after all, most people don't know what kind of lives their teachers/bosses have outside school/work). However, there's an increasing number of fans growing restless for a departure from it, with some even accusing it of being a cheap excuse to keep holding back big parts of the show's mythology. It got especially heated after "The New Crystal Gems", with several complaints that the team-up of Connie, Peridot, and Lapis could have been a lot better if the first few minutes hadn't been used to set up that Connie was telling Steven what happened.
  • Keep this too.
• The quality of the animation has been the subject of much controversy, and there are apparently three groups of people regarding the subject. One group finds that the animation goes Off-Model far too often (due to clashing animator styles), that there's no consistency with how the characters look, and that compared to the first season, the animation has changed very dramatically. The other side of the spectrum argues that Off-Model animation can be used for humor, that hand-drawn animation is hard to consistently stay on-model, and that the series has updated its look to accommodate the other artists. Some find a neutral middle ground, saying that while they wouldn't call the animation as a whole terrible, there are certain moments that were not done well.
  • Pretty sure this opinion is usually just held by the "SU Critcal" Vocal Minority (that link especially). Cut.
• Peridot and Lapis becoming side characters instead of main characters ended up being one of the most divisive parts of the narrative: there are those who don't mind it, either due to feeling that it keeps the cast of characters in a show with such limited runtime from being clogged up, or simply viewing Peridot and Lapis' hijinks at the barn as hilarious and cute. Others feel that it does a disservice to them by slowing their development to a halt due to how little they appear, while others are mad that it keeps them from being involved with plot points like the Human Zoo break in or the fight with Aquamarine and Topaz (especially since Peridot is the reason why they're there), as well as Steven surrendering himself to them, leading some to feel that their potential is being wasted.
  • Don't have an opinion on this one. First sentence is Examples Are Not Recent though.
• Bismuth's episode brought up a fierce debate over whether it's right or wrong for the Crystal Gems to poof their opponents from Homeworld instead of outright shattering them, essentially rendering them Deader than Dead. Some think it's perfectly justified after everything Homeworld has done, others point out that, since they have a method of putting Gems in indefinite stasis after poofing them, there's no need to shatter them and doing so is unnecessarily cruel.
  • Keep. I've heard this debate is also something that furthered Rose's Base-Breaking Character status as well.
• The continued addition of Beach City episodes has started to come under fire as of Seasons 4 and 5. On one hand, you have fans who like them and continue to endorse them, seeing them as the best way for side characters to have their time in the spotlight while allowing the show to take a break from the more serious episodes. On the other, you have the fans that are growing sick of them, seeing them as pointless fluff and arguing that, at this point in the show, they don't need a break from the main plot. A third group of fans don't mind them, but do wish that there were less of them.
  • Keep, unfortunately.
  • A common argument against the Beach City episodes is that they could've worked if the show had a normal update schedule, but the infrequent release schedule forced on them by CN makes them more aggravating, which creates another broken base over whether the writers are still at fault for not adapting to this release schedule and focusing more on moving the main story along, or whether they should just stay the course because the release schedule stops being a problem after the episodes have already been aired for a while.
    • I don't know what to do with this bit, honestly. Keep it where it is? Merge it into the main example? Cut it entirely?

Keep the part about Lapis/Jasper. It does indeed have a lot of people who ship it in its own right for various reasons, including fix-it fics, Jasper being redeemed through the power of love, darkfic, or straight-up Draco in Leather Pants. And it's become a poster child for ships that receive hate from "antis" (Moral Guardians who believe it should never be shipped or so much as tolerated no matter what and no matter how hard its fans acknowledge its darker elements).

A few comments:

• Male gems: one could argue that Pink Steven, seen in Change Your Mind, is a male gem, and that didn't seem to be too controversial.
• Garnet's sexuality: I haven't seen anyone debating this, despite the entry's claim that "debates around this can get heated". Perhaps that was the case when these episodes first aired, but clearly it wasn't a sustained conflict. It's maybe Alternate Character Interpretation, but definitely not Broken Base.
• Barn Mates: in general, I tend to be wary of Broken Base entries about a single episode, because any debate surrounding that episode is likely to die down when more episodes come out and fans start to discuss these instead.
• Pearl's crush on Mystery Girl: this is all about speculating how the relationship COULD play out, not a reaction to stuff that actually happens. If more episodes come out and answer these questions, this debate will end (although another one might pop up about how it was handled), so it's not a lasting conflict.
• Alone at Sea: I'm pretty sure the whole point of the episode was that both were in the wrong.
• Beach City episodes: the second bullet point in particular is misuse since it's only a debate while the show is ongoing: one side finds it frustrating that they keep getting townie episodes after a lengthy hiatus, one side doesn't mind them, but both sides become meaningless after the next episode airs.

These examples were just removed from YMMV.Metroid Samus Returns on the grounds of not being considered "vicious".

• Broken Base:
  • The Scan Pulse, which reveals breakable blocks and adjacent rooms on the map, is the most divisive mechanic in the game. Opponents say that it makes the game too easy by eliminating the need to explore and fill in the map yourself. Proponents argue that it essentially serves the same functions as the Map Stations and X-Ray Scope from previous games (refuting accusations of They Changed It, Now It Sucks!), makes the game more accessible to newcomers, and is a completely optional feature that is never required to complete the game. Still others find the Scan Pulse to be a good idea and much better to use than similar tools like Power Bombs or the X-Ray Scope, but still find it too overpowered and want it to be nerfed in future games if brought back (mostly by not revealing rooms you aren't in and still hiding hidden passageways).
  • Opinions are split on the boss fight against Diggernaut. One side of the fandom regards it as a fun and challenging Puzzle Boss who rewards players for learning its attack patterns and recognizing recurring visual cues (i.e. vacuums that suck up Morph Ball bombs). The other side says that it's a frustrating boss who feigns challenge by relying on excessive damage output and esoteric methods of defeating it. However, both sides can agree that the ending is cathartic.
  • One has developed over the inclusion of Ridley as a Post-Final Boss. On one hand, many fans love it, considering it to be one of the best Ridley fights in the series; how its design indirectly confirms that the Metroid Prime Trilogy is canon, finally settling a long-lasting debate in the fandom; how it continues to strengthen the bond between Samus and the baby Metroid in a Show, Don't Tell manner; and how it serves as foreshadowing for Super Metroid. However, others hate how it's presented as a Giant Space Flea from Nowhere with zero setup; how it feels like Pandering to the Base due to including fan-favorite elements in a game that originally lacked them; and how it significantly alters the tone of the game's ending, which was originally a quiet and serene scene of Samus and the baby Metroid peacefully traveling back to the gunship together.

I'd say that the Diggernaut example probably isn't as noteworthy as the other two, since on the whole the audience tends to lean more towards That One Boss than a fun Puzzle Boss (and this is coming from someone who views Diggernaut as the latter). But, I do think that the other two fit the criteria for Broken Base even if debates don't go past "polite dissent".

The Scan Pulse is something that's very much appreciated by a lot of fans who struggle with the more cryptic secrets of the older Metroid games. It's also almost always brought up as a criticism by more experienced Metroid players who strongly dislike it for undermining the series's core concept of exploration. It's not really "vicious", but it is something that ends up coloring most players' perception on the game's difficulty, which in turn affects their perception on the game's quality as a whole, even more than a year after the game's release.

The altered ending is something that is loved and celebrated by its fans, as evidenced by its inclusion on the game's Awesome page, the Best Boss Ever example, etc. However, nearly every time I see the remake analyzed and compared to the original (or AM2R), this ending is utterly lambasted as gratuitous fanservice that completely ruins a perfect ending. I think that's a clear example of "love it or hate it". Even if I don't necessarily see the two sides debating "viciously" about it, I do see them firmly holding one view or another. It's not "Yeah, that ending was cool" or "Meh, it's kinda gratuitous", it's more "WOW, BEST BOSS EVER!" or "HOW DARE THEY RUIN THIS PERFECT ENDING!"

I don't think those examples should be included. They upset like 100 of those die-hard Metroid 2 fans.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Feb 13th 2019 at 9:53:50 AM

As a general rule, I am very suspicious of any entry that claims that one small aspect of one entry in a long-running series caused a Broken Base. Really? The entire Metroid fanbase is divided into warring factions over one boss fight?