Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I'm somewhat giddy that I'm described as "overly strict" regarding this trope. Mind you, the context of Krystoff's comment makes it sound like he thinks less of me because of it; I'm instead quite pleased that someone would call me that. It's the first time that I've even considered breaking out my Wiki Cleaner badge.

Also, if I'm allowed to indulge in overly strict behavior, using my alias as a possessive should involve an apostrophe, and it's improper to use a hyphen after an adverb that's modifying an adjective.

Anyhow, an update on the proposed redo of Monster.Web Original, correcting in a couple spots. This also includes the proposal to move two items that were on said page to Monster.Fan Works (as listed below):

• Kirby's version in There Will Be Brawl. He is nowhere close to the cute little marshmallow you grew up with. He is an outright cannibalisitic serial killer who takes delight in tormenting and torturing his victims. He is responsible for almost, everything that goes wrong in the Mushroom Kingdom. He killed many of the main characters, most of them being the few innocents left in this world, very gruesomely. He takes great pleasure in ruining Luigi's life, and killed the two women he loved the most. In the end, he succeeds in almost all of his schemes, and never gets caught. His motive? Sheer insanity. He also likes to torment his victims with their past.
• In Survival of the Fittest, Danya falls into this category with the whole "kidnapping high school students and forcing them to do horrible things to each other because he hates the US for some reason" thing. And if that weren't enough, he makes snide and sadistic remarks about the students involved, with one snippet of his dialogue making fun of how Adam was raped and left for dead by Angelina Kaige.
• In Book III of Tasakeru, an exiled wolf named Ares is introduced as being one of these: a completely unrepentant rapist. The title of Book III is Soulsnatcher, to give you an idea of how ‘'much'' worse he gets. He quickly adds mass-murder and screwing with the process of life and death to his repertoire.
• Imperium Nova doesn't have many of these, but Patrice Rey Barte of Gemini managed to earn the title by orchestrating an orbital bombardment of the planet Dnoces 13 that can killed over a billion people because he was bored.
• The Whateley Universe:
  • Deathlist, a psychopathic, Nigh-Invulnerable cyborg who gets off on widespread carnage and considers the world to owe him a debt of pain. The most horrific thing he's done so far was to kidnap a mutant superheroine, jam a power-neutralizing device into her skull, then hack off her arms and legs and give her to his troops as a sex toy. Then, when she died after more than a month of torture and rape, he impaled her corpse on a pole with a message to one of her former team-mates carved into her chest. Not even his Freudian Excuse (namely, that his parents tried to kill him by crushing him in a garbage compactor) nets him any sympathy after that. The really horrifying part: that message to a former teammate? It was a thank you note, for allowing him to do that.
  • Hekate, a wizardess supervillain-in-training, whose rap sheet includes using a spell to enslave two of her classmates for a year, during which they were repeatedly raped and otherwise abused while being completely aware of what was happening but powerless to stop it, as well as the fact that the athamé she used in the spell was empowered by the ritual sacrifice of two young children. Not only that, but during a magical battle with Fey (after trying and failing to ensnare her in the same enslavement spell mentioned earlier), she summons a trio of iron elementals using the promise of dozens of future sacrifices. To top all that off, she used her athamé to stab Jade in the heart beforehand, just to torment Fey.
• Sola Soulhawk from The Insane Quest of Unfathomable Randomness: single, red-haired young woman seeking man (or woman) for companionship. Enjoys long walks on the beach, salsa, genocide, destroying worlds, murdering your closest friends, laughing at how pitifully weak you are, and Cold-Blooded Torture. Call now!
• Atop the Fourth Wall suprisingly has Mechakara, a robot from an alternate dimension where Linkara's Robot Buddy Pollo turned evil, killed him, and robots overthrew humanity. His plans solely revolve around sending our protagonist into a mental breakdown; and, when that fails, he captures him and plans to kill him slowly, simply because his death went too fast the first time around. While that would normally make him just another killer robot, what shoots him over the top is how, after getting the magic MacGuffin that he came for, he decides instead to destroy all organic life in the multiverse. He's a cold heartless monster and the fact that he's returned is a signal he'll only get worse from here. It gets particularly bad in the Silent Hill Dead/Alive videos, where Mechakara slowly Mind Rapes Linkara into thinking he's the (actually long dead) man who tortured his daughter to create Linkara's Magic Gun.
• Malachite from Suburban Knights wanted to destroy all of the world's current technology and killed anyone who disagrees with him and/or gets in his way. He cannot even pass off as a Well-Intentioned Extremist, as towards the end of the series, he picked up his cell phone, and it had been demonstrated that he didn't think that science is bad, but that he only hated it because he was defeated by its champion, so he swore a violent revenge as a result.
• Mecha Sonic in Super Mario Bros. Z. As soon as he came into being (via Metal Sonic absorbing past models into himself), he destroys the Death Egg and forces it to crash-land on Mobius, causing an apocalypse. He then, while hunting down the Chaos Emeralds, also took the opportunity to kill Sonic's friends in extremely brutal ways (Tails by strangling him, Amy by beating her up, Knuckles by beating him up and then filling him up with machine-gun processed lead, and Cream and Cheese by apparently blowing her head off), and had wiped out most, if not all, of the planet's population and turned almost half of it into a burning wasteland. He was also the reason for Shadow's current personality, because he murdered Rouge and Omega, the only people he could call his friends. As soon as he arrived at the Mushroom Kingdom to recover the Chaos Emeralds, he also killed a Goomba who found a Chaos Emerald simply because he didn't give it to him, even though there was absolutely no way he could have known that was a Chaos Emerald. He then mercilessly beats up Yoshi to gain his chaos emerald (and says that he would have killed Yoshi anyways even if he did comply to his request). He later brutally killed both the Koopa Bros and the Axem Rangers X and destroyed Yoshi's Island. Not just scouring the surface, but hitting the island with a Sphere of Destruction so violent that it vaporised the entire island.
• In the fan movie The Legend of Zelda: The Sage of Darkness, we have Davik, Link's uncle and also the villain. He seems to train Link in the ways of the Hero, only he's really attempting to feed Link hatred and anger in order to speed up Ganon's revival, even supplying him with the White Sword, one of Ganon's artifacts. He's also manipulating Ertegun for his own agenda, and it is also hinted that he also plans on betraying Ganon as part of his agenda as well. He also brutally murdered Link's parents as well as poisoned his own sister. The reason? None whatsoever, aside from possibly trying to get Link to go down the road of hatred even more. And his real plan is to extinguish the Cycle of Eternity, which may result in the destruction of the entire world, for no reason besides hating it for unspecified reasons. He's also a psychopath.
• Venomstripe from Warrior Cats RPG is one of these, a sadistic cannibal who kills high positions for the hell of it and is quite possibly the poster child for Even Evil Has Standards - BloodClan, one of the most evil groups in the game, and SunClan, a vicious anti-Clan group, are the major cats after her.
• Red Dawn +20 has many terrible villains, with the biggest and baddest of them all being the GRU's General Sergei Khvostov, aka "The Butcher of Clear Lake City." His offenses include: arriving at Johnson Space Center in Houston and finding that NASA had managed to move everything (personnel, equipment, documentation) out of there before the invaders arrived, leaving only a mocking note "Catch us if you can," he responsed by ordering the massacre of the families of NASA contractors, astronauts, and anyone else left behind in Clear Lake City; bathing a Cuban officer (one of his nation's allies) in battery acid when they got into an argument over a mistress; massacring the town of Freer, Texas in response to an assassination attempt (that's implied to have actually been carried out by other elements of the KGB who found his methods counterproductive); and forcing the mayor of San Antonio to kill one of his staff, threatening to rape her and then kill her himself anyway if he didn't. (He complied).
• Iron Rose, the sadistic dolphin from Cold Blood. Usually, when you see a dolphin as the villain, it's Played for Laughs or as a parody. Iron Rose, though, is played straight, as unfunny and unsympathetically as possible. He murders innocent sea creatures such as porpoises for humor, captures the human girl Natalie and plans to rape her and then drown her when he's done. As soon as the protagonist, Kevin, and his bird foster parents, Ebony and Phil, come in, he breaks Ebony's wing in front of Kevin and laughs as she moans in pain. Then he tries to kill Kevin in front of Ebony and almost succeeds. At first, it looks like he has a Freudian Excuse when, at the end, he's beached and he claims that he was abused as a calf. Kevin instantly feels sorry for him and gets him back into the water. However, as soon as he's done that, Iron Rose reveals that that was all a lie, that he's been killing things for years, and that he's even murdered his own mother. And then tries to kill Kevin after the latter saved his life.
• The worst in Global Guardians PBEM Universe by far is The Blood Red King (the Anthropomorphic Personification of Terror), who, on a lark, once invaded the maternity ward of a Belgian hospital and suffocated all the babies whose name began with an "odd-numbered" letter (A = 1, C = 3, and so on). He once forced a crusading televangelist to rape, strangle, and dismember his own teenage daughter during a live television broadcast because he didn't like the man's hair.

Also, entries that should be moved to Monster.Fan Works:

• Alexia from The Return who uses Mind Rape as a recruitment tool, turning unwilling humans into her compliant, loving daughter Succubi, and then gleefully abuses, discards, and uses them as Cannon Fodder; after all, it doesn't matter if they die - she can always make more. Of the villains so far, she might not have been the biggest, but certainly the scariest due to her ability and willingness to strike at our heroes' sense of identity and security. She also caused the most pain and suffering and was considered appalling even by the standards of other demons.
• Sweet Tooth from Holy Musical B@man. He gleefully murders people using various sorts of deadly candy but doesn't become a Complete Monster until he reveals his final plan: he kidnaps Robin and sends a video message out to Batman, telling him that he has Robin and has started a Facebook poll asking Gotham to choose-either Robin dies or Sweet Tooth poisons the water supply. And if Batman tries saving Robin, he just poisons the water anyways. And he's never given any motivation, which means that this horrible Sadistic Choice and all his other crimes are most likely For the Evulz.

This has admittedly been a while; hoping to finish this off ASAP.

EDIT: Correcting some formatting issues.

edited 16th Jan '13 2:02:54 PM by 32_Footsteps

Looking good at Web Original there. That's a total swap of the page

32 Footsteps's proposal needs some namespacing, but otherwise it's fine.

Actually, the big question I have about what I did, above, was something that was driving me nuts while compiling it...

Just what is the division between Web Original and Fan Works? A few of the examples up there are crossovers (like Super Mario Bros Z) or filmed fanfic (like The Legend of Zelda: The Sage of Darkness). Should we be moving more of the examples to Monster.Fan Works? Should we just take both pages and lump them together under Monster.Web Original? Should works that are completely original only go into Monster.Web Original?

I honestly don't have a satisfactory answer; I'd like one before doing the swap.

edited 16th Jan '13 1:57:49 PM by 32_Footsteps

I am not 100% sure, but if it's a work that is derived from another akin to fanfiction, it goes on Fan Works.

Hmm, mentioned it before, but I voted to remove Mechakara from Web Original, on the basis he isn't played seriously by the story. Linkara does a whole review of a comic book while bound and helpless, at Mechakara's mercy, and he even makes some snide comments towards Mechakara.

He's played seriously in the non-review bits and in To Boldly Flee, so I'd say one single episode is not enough to discount him.

A couple crime show examples I'd like to discuss...

From Cold Case:

• George Marks. He's one of the show's very few recurring villains, and his MO is pure Nightmare Fuel, but an entire episode is devoted to his absolutely horrifying Freudian Excuse, and he gets Sympathy for the Devil after he dies.
• Moe Kitchener. I actually added him, but I've come to regard him, under the new guidelines, as basically a near-miss. There's not a decent bone in the guy's body, but he never actually kills anyone, and while we do see him act as an accessory to murder in a flashback, the Mind Screw twist of the episode is that the flashback is itself happening in a hallucination of another character, so we don't know for sure if his role in the crime really did play out like that.
• Lauren Williams. She's the episode's victim, is most likely mentally ill, and seems to show remorse when her "ghost" appears at the end (though whether this disqualifies her is pretty much down to individual opinion of how real you think the "ghosts" actually are).

From CSI:

• The gang from "Fannysmackin'". They're a group, though I suppose it could be kept if the entry was rewritten to just focus on the leader.
• The Collins family. Again, a group, could possibly be kept if rewritten to focus on the dad (the mom and brothers are just accessory to his crimes).
• Nate Haskell. Mentioned him before.
• Lou Gedda. He sounds like one of these from hearing other characters talk about him, but we never actually see him do anything beyond some routine murder-for-hire, which is hardly unusual in his line of work.

From Law And Order:

• Jenny. Haven't seen this episode, but the entry itself mentions a pretty nightmarish-sounding Freudian Excuse.

Also, I don't watch Bones, but there's a character named Gormogon mentioned who the entry says almost never actually appears. Does anyone know what, if any, onscreen villainy he has?

Dead Space

• Kendra. She didn't say a single word about the Necromorphs despite the fact that as a government agent she surely knew more about what was going on than Isaac or Hammond. Then she manipulated Isaac into doing most of the work and isolated Hammond so he couldn't communicate with Isaac. Then she killed Doctor Kyne and left Isaac to die onboard the Ishimura, and then tried to leave him again on Aegis VII after showing him the entire video of Nicole committing suicide just to prove to him that he was insane. Then there's Mercer, who experiments on splicing necromorph and human DNA together, and believes that nercomorphs are the next step in human evolution.

Mercer doesn't seem as heinous as Kendra.

This Lawless example seems fine, but I thought I'd bring it up just in case.

• Rakes is without redeeming qualities, and deals out brutal beatings and mutilations to get the bootleggers to submit. He is fully confirmed as this when he kills Cricket because he's mad about Jack calling him a "nance".

EDIT: The Moral Event Horizon entry says Cricket is a crippled boy.

Also, the Collector from Bonkers is listed with no context.

edited 16th Jan '13 8:15:51 PM by TVRulezAgain

"She didn't say a single word about the Necromorphs despite the fact that as a government agent she surely knew more about what was going on than Isaac or Hammond. Then she manipulated Isaac into doing most of the work and isolated Hammond so he couldn't communicate with Isaac."

This part makes me think this is probably one of those misogynistic examples, as nothing in at least those sentences sounds particularly heinous (the first sentence seems to be speculating about the character's motives). Also, I'd need context of why showing someone a video was a terrible act.

Edit- Sorry, misread the Justified example- I see the victim wasn't the person who insulted the killer. Would probably help to give some more context of who the victim was/the general situation.

edited 16th Jan '13 8:14:50 PM by Hodor

Assuming those descriptions are accurate, cut the ones you wanted to cut.

I could still use some feedback on my Norman Osborn rewrite. In the meantime, another entry that needs cleaning.

• The Red Skull, aka Johann Schmidt, arch-enemy of Captain America and former second-in-command to Adolf Hitler in the Marvel Universe. He's so evil that even fellow supervillains like Dr. Doom and Magneto despise him. Though given that Magneto's family were Jewish (and all but him died in the Holocaust) and Doom's family were Romany, it's not surprising that they would dislike the Skull.
  • Just to point out: the Skull isn't a Nazi anymore. It's not that he's got anything against Nazis either. He just thinks he's superior to them. Yes, he's even more arrogant than a group of people so narcissistic they called themselves the "Master Race". And the scary thing is he's only become even MORE evil since renouncing the Nazi cause, not less. The guy didn't just go past the Moral Event Horizon — he IS the Moral Event Horizon. Even sadistic mind rapist Dr. Faustus is disgusted by him. In a cross-over with DC, he disgusted even the Joker.
  • There's also the way he treated Mother Night, the only woman who actually loved him. He treated her like crap and usually just thought of her as another henchman. In a lot of ways, it's like the Joker and Harley Quinn relationship, but Skull is far more abusive. Red Skull once even started flirting with Viper right in front of her just to make her suffer (he slept with Viper, too). What Mother Night sees in him is a mystery, though she also considers Crossbones to be a close friend, so she isn't a good judge of character. Mother Night isn't a saint herself.
  • However, another minion of the Red Skull, Arnim Zola, seems like a complete monster in his own right. He was a Swiss scientist who chose to work for the Nazis to get funds and "test subjects" for his genetics research. Now, that's pretty bad, but it went From Bad to Worse. He put his mind into a genetically altered body that allowed him to survive into modern times. So now he does things like make Hitler clones and kidnap orphans in order to turn said orphans into genetically altered monsters. Also, he revived the Red Skull after he died, by transferring his mind into the body of a Captain America clone, ensuring the Skull's evil would continue.
  • It seems to run in the family, as Red Skull's daughter Sin is one as well. She's just as vicious as her father, although significantly more Ax-Crazy. Although she does wear her father's Nazi attire (and sports matching facial scars), she seems significantly less interested in the Nazi philosophy and more interested in just killing as many people as possible For the Evulz.
  • Crossbones is another one; understandable, considering that he had to meet Sin's standards to be her boyfriend...which didn't stop him from torturing her to remove the brainwashing she was subjected to. He was recently put in the Thunderbolts. Not because anybody has delusions he deserves a chance to redeem himself, quite the opposite - he was added to the team because he is so irredeemable and disgusting that other members are more willing to cooperate, as trying something would put them on the same side as him. It got to the point where he killed a police officer and was booted off the team.
    • Crossbones actually managed to start up a Real Life racism and sexism controversy when an issue of Spider-Man depicted him, a Neo-Nazi rapist, apparently killing the superheroine Sabra, a Jewish single mother, by shooting her In the Back while nonchalantly munching on a sandwich. The writer actually had to get on Twitter and confirm he'd just grazed her, things got so bad. Still an excellent window into the kind of guy he is, nevertheless.
  • Yet Even Evil Has Standards as there was one individual that was too Axe-Crazy even for him: his one time partner and lover Viper, a.k.a. Madame Hydra. She is the former head of HYDRA, a Southeast Asian dictator, and an all-around mass-murdering terrorist mastermind. She is so evil that even other supervillains team up with heroes to take her down. Skull was the only one she would even work for, but after he saw all the damage she did with his resources, it was discovered even the Red Skull had his limits and he turned on her. Though it was less a case of morals than it was of efficiency: Viper was wasting the Red Skull's resources to cause pointless destruction. The Red Skull might enjoy petty sadism, but he's not about to bankroll someone else's petty sadism.

This is bad. It contains factual inaccuracies (the Skull goes back and forth on being a Nazi), and relies more on Even Evil Has Standards then actual atrocities to justifiy his placement. If Crossbones, Viper, etc, qualify they need their own entries. Here's a rewrite for the Skull, focussing solely on his crimes.

• Johann Schmidt, alias The Red Skull, archenemy of Captain America and Bastard Understudy to Adolf Hitler himself. Once a bitter, psychotic street kid, Schmidt began as a petty criminal with a violent streak. After having his romantic advances rejected by a Jewish girl named Esther (who had otherwise been nothing but nice to him), Schmidt flew into a rage and murdered her; in doing so he discovered an appreciation for murder, and set to find ways to do it again. Convincing his friend Dieter to try and assassinate Hitler, Schmidt stepped in and saved Der Fuhrer's life, convincing the Nazi dictator to take him in as his protege in the process, swiftly going From Nobody to Nightmare. Donning a Skull-shaped mask, Schmidt took on the role of Hitler's spymaster, responsible for running terrorist campaigns, infiltration, and sabotage across Europe. He also operated at home, working to do away with anyone who Hitler depended on more than the Skull himself, furthering his goal of one day taking Hitler's place. Tasked by Hitler with creating five superweapons with which to destroy the world in the event of a Nazi defeat, the Skull was interrupted by Captain America and trapped in suspended animation, though not before setting in motion events that would result in the apparent death of both Cap and his partner, Bucky. Awakened in the modern era, the Skull resumed his old ways. He made several attempts at gaining World Domination through the use of the Cosmic Cube (killing thousands of people every time), attempted to transplant Adolf Hitler's brain into Captain America's body, and fought the Kingpin for control of the New York drug trade. He has made repeated attempts to bodyjack Captain America, among others, manipulated the Scarlet Witch as part of a plan to exterminate the world's mutant population, and has been the mover and shaker behind countless Neo-Nazi movements, fascist governments, and terrorist cells, most notably Hydra and AIM. In a Bad Future he became God-Emperor and spent his time triggering natural disasters, then showing up to inform people that he would not be saving them. And this is all without getting into his treatment of those closest to him. When the Skull's daughter, Sin, was born, he planned to kill her for the crime of being a girl. When he was in a relationship with supervillainess Mother Night, he let out his internal Domestic Abuser, brutalising her constantly. Firmly convinced that everyone needs somebody to bully and torment, the Skull is a firm proponent of Dystopia Justifies the Means, and has committed every crime from the petty (eating an apple in front of starving Africans) to the horrendously grandiose (mass murder, ethnic cleansing, and full-on genocide). With an end goal of reducing society to its most primitive, dog-eat-dog levels, Schmidt is the worst that Marvel has to offer, and his fellow supervillains either give him a wide berth, or despise him completely.

I know it's long, but I had trouble figuring out which crimes I should mention, and which ones I should not. Thoughts?

I also think that we likely have to cut Crossbones and Sin as they only ever appear as adjuncts to the Skull's will. Arnim Zola and Viper have had independent careers so I could see keeping them.

EDIT: On second thought, Viper/Madame Hydra needs to go. She has a history of actually caring about the Silver Samurai, among others, and seems to have had real feelings for (of course) Wolverine at one point. The woman is completely Axe-Crazy, but I don't think she's this trope.

edited 17th Jan '13 12:31:40 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Actually, Sin manages to become the second Skull, while Crossbones....well, he's an unrepentant monster when left to his own devices.

and Hodor, as for Kendra: Kendra shows the hero, Isaac, a video she had previously edited of his girlfriend committing suicide, and she's quite gleeful about it.

Trying to think how to phrase this- what would the video have showed if it wasn't edited (like did this Kendra kill the hero's girlfriend? Did aliens do it or something?)? I also gotta comment that generally, its a sign of a bad example when it focuses on the villain doing something "gleefully".

I know about Sin's evolution into the second Skull, but even then, I've got to say having The Red Skull for a father is a pretty big Freudian Excuse in and of itself. As for Crossbones, his rather intense loyalty to the Skull makes me wonder, since he seems to be loyal to the man himself, rather then to say, the Nazi ideology (which I would not qualify as a good trait).

Sorry, my mistake. Kendra edited it to cut out the nasty part to manipulate Isaac and later reveals the final bit just to twist the knife and prove he's insane.

Crossbones...I'm unclear if that loyalty is a good trait...he seems to worship Schmidtt, but he seems to channel this into being worse and worse.

edited 16th Jan '13 8:41:48 PM by Lightysnake

How does showing/editing the video relate to proving the character is insane?

Isaac had been seeing Nicole (the woman in the video) throughout the game. Even though she was dead at her own hand before he even arrived, which Kendra concealed to better manipulate him.

I'm not sure I'd list this as misogyny,given Kendra's rather impressive list of crimes for a normal human in the Dead Space 'verse

Still not completely following how that works, but oh well.

Well, this part "She didn't say a single word about the Necromorphs despite the fact that as a government agent she surely knew more about what was going on than Isaac or Hammond. Then she manipulated Isaac into doing most of the work and isolated Hammond so he couldn't communicate with Isaac."- sounds like one of those "she's a huge bitch" examples absent some more context

Also, the first sentence speculates on her motives (did she actually know more? If not, the example shouldn't be assuming she did, and even if she did, why is that bad?)

Edit- There might be some chicken-egg here in that female villains tend to be written as manipulative, but it does seem like a lot of the "misogynistic" examples place a lot of emphasis on how the female character was mean (see above) and manipulative toward the male character(s), and typically, this example places a lot of emphasis on those things as proof of Complete Monsterdom.

edited 16th Jan '13 8:51:09 PM by Hodor

@7015

I think that under the circumstances, it is a good trait, as it differentiates Crossbones from the Skull himself, who has no loyalty to anybody. Crossbones cares about somebody, even if the somebody in question is a CM. To me, that makes him better then the Skull, and since the two of them usually appear together, and are involved in the same sorts of activities, that makes him unworthy of this list.

I'm not so sure it's misogyny per se, as much as it is Protagonist-Centred Morality, with people having a bad gut reaction to someone who so thoroughly manipulates and leads on a main character. They take it personally, and then to demonstrate their hatred, try to add the character here.

edited 16th Jan '13 9:04:48 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

To speak on the Kendra example, I'd sum it up as being the latest in a string of misogynistic examples where female villians are being held to a lesser standard of heniousness. As someone versed in Dead Space, let me debunk her inclusion thoroughly.

First off, she doesn't really do anything beyond withholding the truth from you and possibly keeping Isaac and Hammond from talking with each other (Hammond was pretty fucked up about halfway through the game from toxic gas, so he may have just found a hole to hide in until he could breath again). She may have manipulated a doctor into helping her get the shuttle with the marker, but then again he was already insane from the Marker's influence. Granted, she did shoot him, but that's about it.

As for hiding the second half of the message from Nicole, that would better be chalked up to her employers rather than her, since she's just one woman and would lack the ability to intercept messages by herself, what with being a field agent.

And despite what Lightysnake says, her list of crimes is actually pathetic when compared to other humans in the Dead Space Universe. The founders of the Church of Unitology took Ultman's work and manipulated it so they could create a scientology-rip off and make lots of money whilst using his research to build more fake markers (alien devices that reanimate dead tissue into necromorphs. Think space zombies, but worse), and then threw him into a cage with a huge necromorph armed only with a spoon, whilst telling him that his girlfriend was dead and that they were going to use his name to create an organisation to further research into the things he tried to destroy. That's pretty damn sadistic.

Moving along, we have Mercer, who built up a modest body count in the first game to try and make more powerful necromorphs, but by that point he's quite insane from the Marker's influence so he lacks Moral Agency, we have the nameless organisation which, through one member of another:

• Attempted to kidnap a woman and her unborn child to experiment on her immunity to the Marker's worst effects.
• Lobotomised a woman who knew the truth about the Ishimurra incident (aka the first game) whilst she was conciouss, then framed her for said incident (these guys seem to enjoy twisting people's legacies to be the exact opposite of what they wanted)
• Experimented with Marker technology on a very heavily populated space station, then when the predictiable necromorph outbreak happened had standing orders to shoot down all civillian escape pods regardless of wether or not there were any necromorphs onboard (an order which the human antagonist of the game thought was stupid and blatantly defied).
• Kept a ship of marines on standby in the first game to kill any survivors of the Ishimurra (besides Kendra).

So compared to that, Kendra's not that bad. Hell, the only bad thing she did was murder one doctor and try to steal the marker instead of taking it back to it's pedistal (which would instantly cause all Necromorphs to cease functioning). The rest of her manipulations with Isaac are more or less in line what any sane person would do (stop the ship they're in from crashing, keep a stable amount of oxygen on hand, attempt to summon the ship full of marines then warn them of the necromorph hiding in that escape pod).

Does anyone from The Princess Bride qualify? Personally, I think the Count may... uh... count.

Why should he count?

The whole "Making a machine that tests the human threshold for pain For Science!" thing, and killing Domingo Montoya simply because he didn't like the sword that took MONTHS for Domingo to make.

Both he and Film!Humperdinck are listed on the YMMV page.

The count is cited for Villainous Friendship in the movieverse page. So he doesn't qualify.

Footsteps, calling you "overly strict" was not meant to be offensive. It is a simple fact. You yourself admitted it. Now, I am going to tell you something; for me it is kind of annoying because while this trope is in fact supposed to be very strict, you go over the edge with it.

edited 17th Jan '13 8:02:42 AM by Krystoff