During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Lassiter.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Quilty and Lassiter.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yes to Lassiter.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker, is reimagined as Satan's own bloodthirsty Psycho for Hire. A sociopathic murderer who nearly decapitated an elderly woman, Ramirez follows Brooke Thompson to Camp Redwood and makes the sympathetic Benjamin Richter sell his soul to Satan to recruit him as an unwilling partner-in-crime, returning to Los Angeles and spending a year killing random innocents with no signs of stopping while Benjamin had to watch everything. After Benjamin finally exposes him, Ramirez breaks out of prison to get his revenge. Finding Benjamin's family in Alaska, Ramirez murders his wife and challenges Benjamin to a duel for the safety of his baby son. Slaughtering the members of Kajagoogoo, Ramirez is happy to assist Margaret Booth in her plan to massacre dozens of people. Despite having a tragic upbringing, Ramirez openly embraces his unholy master and proudly refers to himself as pure and uncut evil.
- Double Feature:
- Red Tide: Ursula Khan is a snarky literary agent who progresses from being simply shallow to wickedly heartless when given a chance to make more money. Visiting Provincetown to investigate the sudden rise in creativity of her "favorite" client, Ursula uncovers the existence of Muse, a drug that enhances talent but also turns most of its users into Feral Vampires. Coming to see the Gardners as mere pawns in her game, Ursula disposes of Harry and his wife before going to Los Angeles with a new supply of Muse, distributing the drug to several people—including an entire class of writing students—and flooding the streets in blood to satisfy her bottomless greed.
- Death Valley: Theta is an emotionless human-alien hybrid with no regard for the lives of others, thinking of her own humanity as her greatest shame. Hired as part of the coalition between the US government and the invading extraterrestrial forces, Theta leads the Super Breeding Program on Area 51, where innocent men and women are both impregnated by the aliens to create more hybrids. Some of Theta's subjects are on the "annual plan"; these people have been immortalized and spend their eternal lives as breeding slaves. If the newborns are too abnormal to her liking—meaning all of them—Theta has their throats slashed and drowns them in a tank, feeling no remorse despite being a failed hybrid herself. When it is revealed that the aliens have no intentions to share the world, Theta coldly declares her allegiance to them and their plan to Kill All Humans.
- Pink Royal, by Amano Ameno: The Dragon Madara is the leader of the monstruous Kaijin. Initially created as "the Evil" for a Balance Between Good and Evil, Madara ordered his minions to murder every human that set foot on their world, allowing them to torture their victims. When the appearance of two extraordinary heroines is noticed, Madara orders his minion to attack them and manipulates Hiroko into becoming X Death, ordering her to kill her best friend Momoni in exchange for a new life as a Kaijin. When Momoni and Hiroko reconcile and choose to challenge the gods, killing the Goddess Merica to break the balance, Madara proclaims his desire to rebuild the world into one where the Kaijin would torture without any limit before trying to kill the heroines.
- Night Teeth (2021): Victor is a vampire lord who, tired of abiding by the human-vampire truce, seeks to overthrow his superiors to hunt humans with impunity. Violating the truce by slaughtering humans in Boyle Heights and kidnapping Jay's girlfriend, Victor uses the subsequent chaos to allow him and his followers Zoe and Blaire to pick off the vampire lords and anyone else who gets in their way. Meeting Jay, Victor reveals he had all his men killed and his girlfriend ground up into meat, before capturing him and locking him away as a living blood bag, of which he has multiple. When Blaire turns on him in defense of Benny, Victor casually orders her killed before biting Benny, infecting him with vampirism.
- Once Upon a Time in Mexico: The corrupt General Emiliano Marquez plots a coup against Mexico's president to let the torturing, murdering cartel of his ally Barillo flourish. An enemy of the nameless "El Mariachi", Marquez murdered the former's wife Carolina and their young daughter for spite, returning to lay siege to Mexico City and slaughter everyone close to the President, with his forces willing to kill all civilians who stand against him.
- Texas Rangers: John King Fisher is a cattle rustler who sells herds to the Mexican army. Opening by massacring most of a town for their cattle while taking women as slaves, Fisher proceeds to attack a traveling circus with a cruel game to take the wife as a Sex Slave and murder her husband. Slaughtering members of the Rangers, Fisher executes his prisoners, save the woman he enslaved, to lure away the Rangers, and executes their commanding officer in front of them, simply because he knows it will hurt them more.
- DiC run:
- "The Sludge Factor" two-parter & "Infested Island": Cesspool, once Vincent D'Avella, was a corrupt businessman peddling poisonous chemicals as "super growth" serum, uncaring of the horrid environmental damage he caused. After being exposed to his own chemicals and dubbing himself Cesspool, the madman pretends to ally with Cobra in a scheme to hold a massive food supply hostage, only to reveal his true intentions are to irradiate the entire planet, hoping to destroy the Earth and all life on it for sheer hatred of all things that symbolize life. Cesspool later tries to sic an army of mutated bugs onto cities across the world, endangering countless innocents while he tries to mutate several G.I. Joes into his insectoid slaves.
- "The Greatest Evil" two-parter: The Headman is a far darker villain than the common variety of Cobra agents G.I. Joe faces. A wicked drug dealer who has reduced an entire neighborhood to ghoulish addiction and agony, deliberately addicting children and using lethal force against anyone who stands in his way, the Headman soon enough introduces his new "Spark" drug to the market, the immensely potent, lethal drug driving its victims mad or into near-death comas. Intending to spread Spark on a global scale and bask in the ensuing fortunes despite the suffering it will cause, the Headman takes two of his addicted victims as hostages when G.I. Joe and Cobra team up to take him down, and attempts to douse several members of each group with concentrated Spark to horribly kill them all with the toxic chemical. Even after getting hit with the concentrated Spark, the Headman hits the self-destruct sequence for his base, trying to ensure the Joes and Cobra die as well.
- "Al-Kitab Al-Ghoul", by Aaron Vlek: Abdul al-Hazrad is the abusive father of the story's narrator, Ibn al-Warith, destroying his son's life and converting him to a cultist so he may turn him into a ravenous ghoul as he's done to many others. A worshipper of the Old Ones, al-Hazrad proceeds to unleash the apocalypse, with a storm of ghouls emerging to slaughter and devour everything on Earth until nothing is left to consume but themselves.
- Tim Feely is the brutal head of security for the Paradise Club, overseeing the bloodbath known as "the Skirmish" with sadistic relish. Introduced by viciously stabbing a prisoner to death, Feely continues his usual routine of orchestrating the Skirmish and getting dozens of innocents slaughtered while he threatens and abuses his own staff. When his many failures catch up on him and he is betrayed by his employers, Feely attempts to kill his boss and leave everyone else to die, outright swearing off any potential remorse he may have for his many victims.
- Daughter for Sale (2017 Lifetime movie): John Gallant, along with his assistant Chelsea, are vile Human Traffickers who abduct runaway girls and auction them off to wealthy men. Abducting Carly O'Neil, they keep her in line by threatening her friend Jenny, only to murder Jenny anyways in spite of Carly's compliance. When Carly's mother Annalise begins to dig too deep, John has her assaulted and robbed, and then tries to kill her himself when she interferes with the attempted ship off.
- Brasa is the Sun God of Xibalba and chief servant to Amaru. To bring about his Queen's desired apocalypse, Brasa leads the Xibalban demons to murder and manipulate thousands of innocents, as he has done in countless wars past. Poisoning the water supply of a town to reduce the citizens to mindless cannibals, Brasa cheerfully mocks the few who seek to stop him and delights in telling Seth Gecko how he looks forward to taking Seth's body as his latest vessel to celebrate the end of days.
- True Detective's "The Long Bright Dark" & "Haunted Houses": Reverend Billy Lee Tuttle, son of the founder of the Tuttle Cult of the Yellow King, inherited a key position from his grandfather, and leads the Cult, using the Tuttle Schools to find victims. Countless children are sexually abused, tortured, and murdered with the cult conducting its horrific rituals on countless children and young women in videos and photos Tuttle himself keeps as trophies.
- Theater of War: Operation Zero-Point, written by Charles & Daniel Knauf: Der Metzger, "The Butcher", is an SS officer in charge of the Anti-Gravity experiments in occupied Poland. Forcing a resistance fighter named Lior to lure Steve Rogers into a trap by using her family as bait, Metzger is revealed to be using slaves, many of whom are to be killed, with countless others horribly experimented upon or used as test subjects in "anti-gravity" chambers that are invariably fatal, with Lior's family already dead. Plotting to master the anti-gravity technology, Der Metzger plans to unleash it on the enemies of the Reich, to kill countless civilians.
Edited by ACW on Nov 8th 2021 at 10:35:44 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Good Hunter
I'd like to suggest two characters from Mortal Kombat, namely D'Vorah and the 11 incarnation of Sindel. Have we discussed them before?
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sindel I don't think; D'Vorah...is she heinous enough compared with the big 4, Kronika, or even Frost?
EDIT: I know tropers can't propose/vote on candidates from their own works, but they can correct factual errors, right? SumDumNerd sent me a PM regarding a factual error in one of the Slender Man vs Siren Head writeups (wrong name). I assume that's allowed?
Edited by ACW on Nov 8th 2021 at 11:02:57 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sindel got downvoted last year due to failing the baseline standard to several characters, including Shao Kahn. D-Vorah, meanwhile, only has a few murders and helping Shinnok and Kronika in their schemes in her name. Even her backstabbing tendencies are nothing special since Shang Tsung and Quan Chi, two of the biggest monsters in the franchise, outclass her in that regard.
Edited by YobabyColin on Nov 8th 2021 at 11:20:49 AM
The Unknown Unknown
Baro and Quilty. That fucking book, man.
Quilty (*bluegh*) and Lassiter
to the Night King quote, Clare Quilty, and Lassiter.
D'vorah also genuinely cares about her hive, even if she's willing to savrifice parts of it to ensure its future survival.
Yes to Lassiter.
How many C Ms has Peter Sellers got then? Is Quilty his first?
Best Smile
Quilty, Lassiter, Night King quote.
What is the work?
The Final Key is a Ben 10: Ultimate Alien fanfic, where Aggregor notices that even if he succeeds in absorbing a baby celestalsapien he would go insane and couldn't fulfill his goal, so he wants a buffer and choses a human given that their DNA is compatible with almost all species of the universe and between the humans he chooses Ben, after it Julie (who now is wielding the ultimatrix as Ben taught her about it and asked her to be his replacement if something happened to him), Max, Gwen, Kevin and until some point Azmuth try to stop Aggregor and free Ben from his control.
Who is he? What has he done?
Aggregor is an osmosian who sees the universe as flawed and wants to become a god to destroy and recreate the universe. As in canon his plan to this is to kidnap five aliens from Andromeda absorb their powers to become Ultimate Aggregor and then get the Infinite Map to get into The Joy of Creation and absorb a Celestasapien baby, also, in some moment prior to the story he created a mind-control device. As I already said he wanted a buffer to avoid became insane, and he chose Ben because his reputation through the entire universe could get him easy access to many places.
First using his mind control device in the Andromeda aliens, he uses Ra'ad to guide Ben until him, then he revels that sent the other aliens to Ben's loved ones' homes and will has them killing them if Ben don't leaves the ultimatrix and left him put Ben in a deep sleep and bring him in his ship what Ben does. Once in Aggregor's ship and do a test with his machine turning the aliens into energy and forcing Ben to absorb them which causes all of them great agony, although the aliens survive in Ben’s soul, later he puts Ben a mind-controlling device.
Anyway, the plumbers find him after Max tells them about his presence and his most recent act what Aggregor answers throwing a grenade at them, if well them all survive, Aggregor clearly didn't mind if killed them after it Aggregor activates his ship, but was followed by Julie who he stabs with his spear after distracting her with an army of robots after it as a “test” he programs his ship to self-destroy and goes with Ben in a pod, then he frees Ben in La Soledad and uses him to disactivate the security and enter and attack with his robot army, later when the heroes arrive and found Ben he forced him to become a fusion of the andromeda aliens then tries to has him killing his own friends, later absorb him few time after his brainwash was broken being ready to start his quest to the Infinity Map, what lead Major Rozum to drop a bomb in La Soledad in attempt to kill Aggregor but Ben, who still had consciousness and got some control over Aggregor and made him use the aliens' powers to save everyone in the place and gets him to leave him say them goodbye before they go in exchange of don't bothering him during the travel. Then he starts the quest and as in canon almost destroys multiple planets before being stopped by Ultimate Kevin.
Also while people doesn't seem to stay conscious while he control they see to remember it later as Ra'ad knew that Aggregor used him to lure Ben and Ben fully knows about Aggregors plans for him after being freed of his control.
Has he any mitigating factor?
Most of his Pet the Dog moments were due to Ben's influence over him, the only exceptions are when he keeps his word and don't hurt any of Ben’s loved ones, but the story outright states that he only did so because didn't want the plumbers to notice him and when allows Ben to say them goodbye, what I already explained why is not disqualifying in the EP.
The moment where makes his deal with Ben can be some comedic, but it's the only moment where Aggregor wasn't taken completely seriously in all the story and wasn't related with his crimes.
Between his sadism and the story saying that despite the flaws the universe it's still a beautiful place it's clear that he is destined to be a Knight Templar instead of a Well-Intentioned Extremist.
Finally, he is not much different of his canon counterpart but while temporally killing Ben and an taking hostages isn't worthy of a separate entry, I think that his other crimes of brainwashing and attempted omnicide are bad enough how to justify it.
Heinousness
He is the only villain in the story, and I am pretty sure that his actions pass the baseline standard. About the canon competence he keeps all his canon crimes that were considering enough how to stand out during the discussion of his canon counterpart plus in the moment of Ultimate Alien the series haven't presented any Omnicidal Maniac yet so that probably also helps him.
Final verdict
I let it up to you.
Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Nov 8th 2021 at 3:05:46 PM
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The pending stuff (Cring, you gonna write up that duo?):
- Duo (Cring1)
- Ares (DrUnknown)
- Baro (G-Editor)
- Ethan Jefferson (Godzillawolf)
- Clare Quilty (novel and Kubrick film) (Lighty)
- The Devoured and The Dead, by Kristopher Rufty: Lassiter (Lighty)
- Peter Toynbee (Nathanoraptor)
- Daredevil Vol. 1 issues #205, 216-217: Paddy "The Gael" O'Hanlon (Scraggle)
- Taserface (Scraggle)
- Of Gold and Iron (STARCRUSHER)
The Drafts page is now clean for the first time in who knows how long.
Edited by ACW on Nov 8th 2021 at 12:10:53 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Professor Gigachad
Yes to Aggregor.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Just curious but with the new offscreen villainy leeway, is Piella from Wallace and Gromit viable? Or was she removed for a different reason
Aggregor, Quilts, Lassiter
Edited by WetFlannels on Nov 8th 2021 at 6:13:35 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Lizzid people!
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Aggregor.
Professor Gigachad
Yeah she was removed for being Played for Laughs.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Nov 8th 2021 at 11:01:09 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Draftsman of Doom
Ordeaux, please…(edit: Thank you for refraining for further complaints about decisions you didn't like.)
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Hold off on saying anything until discussion date, please.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 8th 2021 at 2:48:21 PM
Feels good, don't it?
Aggregor
Has there been any discussion on Dune (2021) yet? The movie passed the two week mark on Friday.
Goku Black
Nope.
Though uh does Harkonen do anything new in that film. I thought it was a pretty faithful adaptation.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Okay, I'll be taking Dune part 2 as well, but...
Nothing to discuss yet. Baron Vladimir doesn't do much new yet. He is ordering the genocide of the Fremen, but nothing too big yet. Ditto for Rabban who hasn't done much either.
TBH, though...Vlad was never given a writeup to incorporate everything from all he does. I can fix that with a new EP for the book Harkonnen, but as of now? Nothing new.
