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Ambiguous Name: Not Good With People

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To-do list:

  • Not Good With People was renamed to Better with Non-Human Company. Keep examples that refer to the proper definition (people who are better with non-human beings/organisms than they are with other people), move examples that belong under No Social Skills accordingly, and remove examples that don't fit elsewhere.
    • Clean up on-page examples.
    • Clean up wicks.

    Original post 
I had long suspected this trope suffered from misuse because of the name since I've misused it myself a few times and had to correct it after double checking the page.

What the trope is: A person who is so socially awkward / anti-social that they get along better with plants and animals than with people.

What the trope isn't: Just a socially awkward / anti-social / standoffish person.

Wick check confirms the misuse. Out of 51 examples, only 27% were correct and 49% were misused to describe just a socially awkward/anti-social person. the rest of the examples were ZCE (14%) or too ambiguous to call either way (10%).

Suggestion: Rename to make it clearer what the trope is about.

Wick check:

Definition: A socially awkward person shows more of an affinity with plants and animals than with people

Wicks Checked: 51

  • Correct - 14 (27%)
  • Just socially awkward/anti-social - 25 (49%)
  • Unclear - 5 (10%)
  • ZCE - 7 (14%)

Note: potholes will have the trope name in parentheses and the text it potholed highlighted in green.


     Correct 
  • Comic Book/Marsupilami - Friend to All Living Things: Noé, the clown/animal tamer. While he is Not Good With People, he gets along famously with any and all animals.
  • Except It Abide in the Vine: Barnes is pretty asocial, for Winter Soldier trauma-related reasons, but he is devoted to his dog.
  • Heart To Heart: With Pokemon, Zoe is confident and sweet and caring. But put a new person in front of her, and Zoe is immediately flustered, tripping over her own tongue and blushing and just an absolute mess. Law finds it both adorable and frustrating.
  • Xandri Corelel: Xandri is great at reading aliens' body language and establishing a connection with previously uncontacted races, but she finds her own species to be by far the most confusing. She's reluctant to work with the Anmerilli partly because they look too human for her to be comfortable with them.
  • Aggretsuko – Carrier Man Trading Company - Resasuke: He is impressively talented when it come to taking care of plants, but his social skills are somewhat lacking to say the least. He doesn't just misread situations, he outright misses them, as seen on his date with Retsuko.
  • Hates Being Alone - Description: ...expect them to cling to any of their friends (including (Not Good With People) pets/plants/inanimate objects) like a lifeline in order to escape their feelings of desolation.
  • Why Not Janice? - Crazy Cat Lady: A sympathetic, sometimes reasonable example. Part of her Not Good With People character traits. Generally expressed in a "I love cats more than people !"
  • Crocodile Hunter: An extremely mild example. Steve had no trouble making friends everywhere he went, but he always tended to be most comfortable in the bush with animals, and he had an uncommon intuition with wildlife and the wilderness that was showcased in his documentary work. Steve and Me shows that he was on the shy side whenever he wasn't out in the wilderness or working with animals, but he began to show the "grumpy" side of this trope near the end of his life after several bouts of negative media attention.
    "Crocodiles are easy. They try to kill and eat you. People are harder. Sometimes they pretend to be your friend first."
  • The Simpsons S 31 E 22 Way Of The Dog: The dog psychiatrist, Elaine Wolff, treats dogs with kindness and understanding, but is nothing but rude to their owners. She also keeps spurning a suitor's attempts to propose to her because she's too busy with her canine clients.
  • Friend to All Living Things - Deconstructed: Because Alice has got such a good bond with animals, (Not Good With People) she has trouble making human friends.
  • Three Leaves, Three Colors: Teru is basically a misanthrope who is a Friend to All Living Things.
  • The Try Guys - Eugene: Eugene is generally grouchy and averse to affection. However, around animals, he's an absolute sweetheart and is very affectionate. He's said that the reason he prefers animals to people is because animals don't judge him because of his race.
  • The Lorax (2012) - The Once-ler: He ironically seems to be more comfortable around the animals than other people.
  • The End Times: Vermintide - Victor: Very Downplayed - Lohner's Pricking Thumbs journal has him apparently having gotten a cat, though Lohner notes he still seems as uncomfortable with petting it and therefore showing affection as one would expect Victor would be. It's also the only cat that can apparently stand him smiling too, so calling Saltzpyre good with animals would remain a stretch. He's also healing up a rat that his cat hurt.

     misuse - Just socially awkward/anti-social 
  • Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis - Vayne: His bio states his dislikes as "People in general". Unfortunately for him, Flay and the others don't really give him a choice about hanging out with them and...well, see Extreme Doormat above.
  • Pact: Jacob's Bell Powers - Rose: She doesn't really have much practice making or keeping friends, even though she's not bad with the concept of dealing with people (she did get training in being a Manipulative Bitch). She's not horrible at friendship, either; just very unsure about the whole process and constantly on eggshells, for all she finds it a remarkable experience once she actually does get some. There turns out to be a very good reason for all that: Blake got all the experience and memories of ever having had any friends. Including within the family. Rose was robbed of this section of their life: all that envy was probably realising this on some level.]
  • RWBY: Ruby Rose: By her own admission, she prefers to let her weapons speak for her. Yang does try her best to help Ruby grow out of it by forcing her to make friends, but it only starts happening when she's made team leader. She grows out of it by Volume 4.
  • Survivor: Heroes vs. Villains - Russel: To Danielle, a fellow former finalist, on the jury:
    Russell: "I'm not going to sit here and tell you what you want to hear; I'm going to tell you the truth."
  • Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist: Zoey's very much an introvert who prefers code to people. This becomes exceptionally uncomfortable when her ability forces her to engage with people on a deep emotional level. In fact, one episode lampshades that she often can't tell what other people are feeling unless they're putting on a literal song and dance about it in front of her, and has her working to overcome that and pay more attention outside of heart songs.
  • According to Greta: Only makes one friend over the whole period being in New Jersey. She lampshades it with saying she always says the wrong thing.
  • Justice League (2017) - Teeth-Clenched Teamwork: Being Not Good With People, Batman is not the best person to get everyone working together. Cyborg and Aquaman have their own issues and concerns. Lucky for him Wonder Woman is already on his side and Flash Jumped at the Call.
  • The Happening - Cloud Cuckoolander: Mrs. Jones is (supposed to be) a non-comedic example. She has obviously lived in isolation for many years, and displays misanthropic behavior and (Not Good With People) truly terrible social skills (she even accuses Elliot of planning to murder her in her sleep for no reason at all). She even flips out at Elliot trying to examine the doll on her bed (which presumably represents her younger self, given she alleges it's her face, and she was apparently hiding nearby to see if Elliot approached it) and orders him to leave at once. Clearly she has some serious mental problems.
  • The Overstory - Determined Defeatist: Everyone, but especially Patricia, who becomes convinced that humanity won't be able to save the trees. but devotes herself to trying anyways. Despite her Not Good With People tendencies, she deeply admires humanity because of this trope.
  • Goodnight Punpun: Every major character in the story has some issues with people or dealing with others. Punpun and Aiko, in particular, are the greatest examples of this.
  • Otaku no Musume-san: Kimiko is a rather extreme case, to the point where she abandoned her own daughter, Taeko. She does, however, have an excuse for this.
  • Live-Action TV - Sherlock: The main character himself. Although handsome, intelligent and insufferable about it and the world's greatest detective, he's (Not Good With People) no good at dealing with other people, even his friends, at times. However, he awkwardly (and genuinely) acknowledges his friend's bravery after the whole bomb vest thing.
  • Miraculous Ladybug S02E13 "Zombizou" - Never My Fault: Chloé spends the entire episode refusing to admit ever doing anything wrong (even when nearly the whole class gangs up on her for her actions), lashing out at the people around her over every foible and embarrassment. She eventually does apologize to Miss Bustier at the end of the episode (Not Good With People) when she thinks all of her classmates are not there to see (since she did not know that Marinette and Adrien were watching), admitting she was feeling guilty for forgetting Miss Bustier's birthday and not getting her a gift.
  • Anima Solus - Samuel: Since he only lives with his sister, she's honestly the only person he interacts with outside of school, due to his general distrust of people that don't have the same liberal access to monetary support that he does. Kind of stupid when it comes to people or more practical things, Samuel is really just lonely.
  • Angry Birds - Mighty Eagle: He's a grumpy old hermit who lives alone on a mountain.
  • Transformers: EarthSpark: Bumblebee isn't really a people person and tends to come off as an arrogant Know-It-All. It's so bad that he has to get advice from four separate Cybertronians and humans on how to deal with the Terrans in "Moo-ving In".
  • Tripping Over You - Nice Jewish Boy: Averted with Liam. Sure, at the core he is a decent kid, but around that core are layers and layers of cynical snark, (Not Good With People) social ineptitude, and quite some temper.
  • Protectors of the Plot Continuum: Some agents aren't very good with people. Agent Tasmin is a good example of this.
  • The Confines of the Crown: Prince Nazagi, mainly due to the fact that his sight is so bad without glasses that he can't read visual cues, like emotions or body language. He usually gets his valet to do the talking for him.
  • Always Remember Me - Dr. Jerk: Eddy seems like this at first, but turns out to just be Not Good With People.
  • Anime & Manga - Case Closed: The flighty and boy-crazy Sonoko Suzuki ultimately swears by the trope as her long-distance boyfriend is the dorky Gentle Giant Makoto Kyougoku, who is Not Good With People but is pretty much his White Knight to her White Lady.
  • Station Eleven: Clark is actually good at manipulating people, but he's had to develop this skill because he has no natural charisma. In fact, he has an irrational belief that no matter what he does, people instinctively hate him. This is contrast to his friend Arthur, whom everyone loves the moment they meet him.
  • The Falcon and the Winter Soldier: Upon meeting Karli for the first time, Bucky, who has mistaken her for a hostage, greets her kindly and asks her in a concerned tone if she's alright. He even returns her (slightly creepy) smile. Granted, the situation didn't turn out very well, but hey—points to (Not Good With People) Bucky for at least trying to help what he initially thought was a young girl in trouble.
  • The ColSec Trilogy: Samella calls Cord out for being socially naïve in Exiles.
  • Totor Verse - Jerkass: He doesn't act very nicely with the people around him. Not because of a malicious intent though, he just runs on Brutal Honesty and Not Good With People. His lack of expressinevess doesn't really help matters.

    unclear  
  • Katsugeki/Touken Ranbu: The entirety of the brief socially awkward exchange between Honebami and (Not Good With People) Yamanbagiri in the next episode preview in which Yamanbagiri acts vaguely Tsundere while praising Honebami. Doubles as Heartwarming Moments. — since this distinguishes b/w No Social Skills and Not Good With People, indicates that Honebami may actually fit the trope, but can't tell from the example as written.
  • Princess Tutu - Beast in the Building: Subverted. Ahiru attempts to deliver a letter to Mytho in her duck form by breaking into the boys' locker room, hiding so as not to get caught and thrown out. The (Not Good With People) normally gruff Fakir finds her there, causing her to flush with embarrassment and expect the worst. However, he is surprisingly gentle with her (thinking she's just a dumb duck), bringing her back outside before feeding her breadcrumbs, only lightly scolding her for being silly enough to think she would find food in there. This is the first hint that he is actually a Jerk with a Heart of Gold.
  • The Beastmaster: The How to Train Your Dragon 2, set after a five year Time Skip, presents two others of note. (Not Good With People) One hermit independently worked out techniques similar to Hiccup's when the latter was a baby and guards a hidden dragon sanctuary, while a vicious warlord managed to brutalize a hatchling into submission decades ago and now uses a Kaiju with mind-control powers as a linchpin in his horde of warbeasts.
  • Plants vs. Zombies: Crazy Dave demonstrates this in "I, Zombie", in which he agrees to let zombies practice attacking your house, as long as no plants are harmed. Thanks, neighbor. — this doesn't say whether or not Dave is awkward. just that he values plants more than people.
  • Yandere Simulator - Main Characters - Senpai: Downplayed. He prefers nature, classical music, and a good book to spending time with other people. That said, while he's introverted, he's a Nice Guy who happens to become a Chick Magnet over the course of the game.

    ZCE 

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 19th 2023 at 11:12:29 AM

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#26: Apr 12th 2023 at 11:20:16 PM

[up]Despite the length of those suggestions I like them more than Prefers Nature To People since it gets across that this character is socially awkward. A character can like animals/plants more than people and still not be awkward, is my only concern with the other name (Gaias Avenger types).

Edited by amathieu13 on Apr 12th 2023 at 2:20:25 PM

Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
Unicorndance Logic Girl from Thames, N.Z. Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Logic Girl
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#30: Apr 13th 2023 at 9:05:24 PM

I agree that Better With Nature Than People would work. I might hook a crowner later since we have some decent name choices now.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#31: Apr 13th 2023 at 10:24:47 PM

Hooked a crowner because I think we've decided on our options.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#32: Apr 13th 2023 at 11:44:17 PM

Despite the description's focus on nature, the trope is also meant to include affinity for machinery and other species like aliens.

You might find them deep in conversation with a lion, unicorn, daffodil, alien, robot, or many-tentacled people-eating thing

[...]

The sci-fi genre in particular has seen the boundaries widened by throwing in robots and aliens as viable alternatives to animals and plants.

Better With Non Humans?

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#33: Apr 13th 2023 at 11:58:55 PM

[up]Added that name.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
MyFinalEdits Officially intimidated from Parts Unknown (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Officially intimidated
#34: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:29:40 AM

Posting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of Better With Nature Than People. I didn't upvote or downvote any of the other options.

135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#35: Apr 14th 2023 at 8:38:55 AM

If robots and machines are included as well- hell, if anything other than human is- then I suggest Prefers Non Human Company instead.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#36: Apr 14th 2023 at 9:31:58 AM

[up]I'm not opposed to a name that removes the focus on plants and animals, but I do still think one that's explicit about the awkwardness/lack of social skills of the character is important.

GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#37: Apr 14th 2023 at 6:37:05 PM

Due to the issues pointed out with the original suggestions (that being that it isn't limited to being better with nature than people, and includes things like robots), I redid the crowner because we'd probably have to redo it anyway if an option that used "nature" instead of "non-humans" won due to said issues.

I left off Prefers Non Human Company since it doesn't indicate the part about being bad with people.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 14th 2023 at 8:38:06 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
MyFinalEdits Officially intimidated from Parts Unknown (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Officially intimidated
#38: Apr 15th 2023 at 12:18:42 PM

Sigh...

Alright, I voted in favor of Better With Non-Humans.

135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
8BrickMario Since: May, 2013
#39: Apr 15th 2023 at 5:20:22 PM

I don't see how "Prefers Non-Human Company" fails to indicate "not good with people"—the phrase states unstated that human company is something the person struggles with and that sounds related to social skills to me.

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition (Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#40: Apr 16th 2023 at 3:51:15 PM

Well, technically not. You can prefer to be around non-humans and still function perfectly fine around humans, just as you can prefer chocolate ice cream but be fine with other flavors.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#41: Apr 16th 2023 at 6:44:09 PM

[up]I agree. I think "better with" is more clearly indicative than "prefers".

Edit: Currently, Better With Non Humans is the only option with enough votes; the options with better ratios don't have enough votes. I bumped the ATT bulletin to see if that changes.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 16th 2023 at 8:45:59 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#42: Apr 16th 2023 at 6:46:53 PM

OK, mod hat on this time because I'm going to delay calling the crowner by two days (so until at least the 19th instead of the 17th) because I feel it would be a good idea to allow the options with less than ten votes to accumulate more votes, since some of them have a better ratio than Better With Non Humans, but don't have enough votes to have consensus. I already bumped the ATT bulletin once; I'll do it tomorrow as well.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 16th 2023 at 8:47:41 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43: Apr 16th 2023 at 11:15:28 PM

Maybe this is just me but I read “better with nonhumans” as “something is improved when it’s not about humans”… like thinking The Lion King > Hamlet

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#45: Apr 17th 2023 at 2:24:15 AM

[up]Added it and Gets Along Better With Non Humans.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 17th 2023 at 4:26:13 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#46: Apr 18th 2023 at 12:07:23 AM

[up][up][up]yeah that was my concern too. It's not a bad title, but I think there are other options that avoid that potential for misunderstanding entirely that we could choose. In general, when it comes to tropes that have issues specifically because of the name, I put much more weight on the "clear" part of the Clear, Concise, Witty rule of thumb to avoid it ever being an issue again.

But it seems like that's the consensus pick :shrug:

Edited by amathieu13 on Apr 18th 2023 at 3:07:34 PM

GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#47: Apr 19th 2023 at 9:09:28 AM

Calling in favor of Better with Non-Human Company. I'll move the page soon, but I'm going to take a short break first.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#48: Apr 19th 2023 at 9:23:43 AM

OK, I moved the page. Both the on-page examples and wicks need to be sorted through. I might disambiguate the old name between this, No Social Skills, and possibly other tropes, but I'm taking a break for now.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#49: Apr 19th 2023 at 3:05:38 PM

I think disambiging Not Good With People is a good idea. You can probably add The Hermit, The Shut-In, and Hikkikomori to it along with No Social Skills and this trope for now.

ETA: leaving this here for easy copying and pasting while dewicking the old name.

Trope has been renamed per TRS [1]

Edited by amathieu13 on Apr 19th 2023 at 6:13:04 AM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#50: Apr 19th 2023 at 3:30:45 PM

I disambiguated Not Good With People. I planned to do that, but if my avatar currently being the main character of Final Fantasy V didn't give it away, I've been playing the Switch releases of the Final Fantasy Pixel Remasters (which came out today), so I haven't been as active on TV Tropes.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Trope Repair Shop: Not Good with People
14th Apr '23 6:34:48 PM

Crown Description:

Consensus was to rename Not Good With People due to misuse. What should its new name be?

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