Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Doesn't help that the description rambles a lot about both real life jesters and various jester-related tropes.
As for a name, what about Curt Jester, a pun on "court jester"?
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Should we even use the name "jester", though, since the trope is really not about jesters at all?
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
I believe the idea is that this is a tactic commonly used by real court jesters, or otherwise was an archetype people used when portraying them, so there is an association there...but maybe it shouldn't be the entire focal point of the trope, huh?
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Seems like an In-Universe version of Biting-the-Hand Humor to me.
I'd like to apologize for all this.
This should be renamed
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I was tired and thus less analytical when I made my previous post, so the description's rambling about actual jesters threw me off. I still think the name should be changed, since it's yet another problematic "The (noun)"-based Non-Indicative Name.
Edit: Forgot a word earlier; whoops.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 25th 2020 at 2:35:41 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
As I understand it, The Jester is a characterization trope based on the jesters (such as Obfuscating Stupidity), and not actually about literal jester characters possessing certain traits (such as Non-Ironic Clown)
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Yeah, basically.
Gentleman Troper!
I think this is basically the trope Honest Advisor. There's not a lot of difference apart from the dress code, really.
Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I didn't know about Honest Advisor until now (or if I did, I forgot about it), but it does appear that The Jester is a duplicate (with The Jester being "Honest Advisor, but funnier"). I'm now in favor of merging the two.
Honest Advisor also has a much clearer description; the only flaw is that it appears to be interpreting The Jester's name literally.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 25th 2020 at 5:18:07 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Well, that certainly doesn't help with the misuse. So what do we do with this one then? Cut?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Well, since most of the examples of The Jester are misuse or ZCEs, and even the wick check's folder for good examples isn't always sure whether they're actually good (even the first one is labeled with "Seems ok" rather than saying it's definitely a proper example), I'd say yes, with whatever good examples there are being moved to Honest Advisor.
Edit: I think it's worth noting that one of the few "Used correctly" examples (without wording like "seems" or "possibly") contains a wick to Honest Advisor.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 25th 2020 at 7:00:50 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
After looking at Honest Advisor, The Jester should be merged into it.
she/her
Yeah, Honest Advisor even says that it's "often the role of The Jester", which makes me wonder what the point of the latter is. The only thing I can think of is that The Jester is supposed to be Honest Advisor + Non-Ironic Clown with some historical context as a tenuous connection, but that's not enough of a distinction for me.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Merge ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
The Jester has the additional connotation of someone who uses humor and trolling to tell the truth, which is not mentioned in Honest Advisor. That seems distinctive enough to me.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax" "Using humor and trolling to tell the truth" sounds close to Refuge in Audacity, actually.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Before the crash we were discussing some crowner options:
- Cut and move examples to applicable tropes
- Merge into Honest Advisor
- Merge into Refuge in Audacity
- Rename
- Do Nothing
Very Spooky
It was also suggested that another option be “Cut and move examples to other tropes”.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
That's the first one ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Very Spooky
Whoops, missed that. 
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I'm fine with those options.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I would pick the first option, but I guess I'll wait for the crowner.
Rename could include keeping the definition the same, right? I feel like the combo of Honest Advisor + Refuge in Audacity seems tropeworthy with the historical baggage of jesters, but I agree that the name seems to be causing problems.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Crown Description:
The Jester is a confusing trope that seems to mean many different things. How should we fix it? NOTE: The "Split" option is mutually exclusive with the "retool" options- if you want the trope to be split, vote for that option, not "retool".
Like so many older tropes, the name of this one is misleading people. I could've probably used "Ambiguous Name" here, but since the name is causing misuse, well...eh.
In a collaborative Wick Check posted below, we looked at 50 wicks and of those 50, only ten of them were being used correctly. The trope is about a specific archetype of a character who can get away with saying harsh truths due to nobody taking them seriously- as demonstrated nicely by the picture. Again, only ten of fifty did this correctly. Assuming correct math here, that's a 20% correct usage rate, or 68/342 wicks. Yikes.
The rest were being used for literal jesters, or were just ZCEs, most of which we can assume also referred to "jesters exist".
Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 23rd 2020 at 9:20:24 AM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness