During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I made a few corrections, both in the Sandboxes and the YMMV:
- 91 Days: Changed "the Sole Survivor of the his family's massacre" to "the Sole Survivor of his family's massacre".
- Magnificent Bastard Marvel Cinematic Universe: Fixed some weird pothole formatting for Pierce (Winter Soldier), and wrapped Well-Intentioned Extremist around his name.
EDIT: I added the spoiler warning to the MCU page, but it looks like it also needs to be added to the AniManga page, and possibly others.
Edited by ACW on Oct 29th 2020 at 11:56:37 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Thanks man.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Thanks ACW. Sorry I think you brought those to me and I forgot to change them. Been off my game.
Also Klavice, Kazuya, as this concern was just raised to me in PM please stop passing off your opinions as though they’re held as gospel on the thread. This trope has enough confusion to a casual browser and we really don’t need misinformation being passed along like it’s something we all believe.
Edited by 43110 on Oct 29th 2020 at 12:04:36 PM
I'm sorry. I just assumed in a universe with rape and racism as the norm it would be harder to get an example, than one without that. I never meant to say I was 100% correct. I'm well aware of all the Seinen and even The Boondocks and The Venture Brothers examples we approved.
Anyway, I posted Sho Minamimoto's writeup to the drafts for you to edit.
Edited by Klavice on Oct 29th 2020 at 9:45:12 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I wouldn't really say rape is the norm in the Venture Bros. Jonas' Rape by Proxy is one of the major reasons he qualified for Complete Monster. Even moments where there is borderline Black Comedy Rape, like with King Gorilla or Monarch and that robot, it's still not treated as humorous in universe. It never reaches the levels of Boondocks and its booty warrior stuff.
Kinda off topic, but it was a point I personally wanted to make.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Oct 29th 2020 at 10:56:18 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
I'd actually disagree when it comes to King Gorilla and Black Comedy Rape in general, but they moved away from that in the later seasons. Pointedly none of the keepers go anywhere near close to that. Nevermind misread what you were trying to say.
Edited by jjjj2 on Oct 29th 2020 at 2:02:29 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
I was conflicted about even typing it up since I don't want to come across as overly defensive about a cartoon and going off the rails on the topics at hand.
To salvage the conversation, I'll agree none of the characters we put up go anywhere near that. Molotov is a hypersexual character and engages in sadomasochism with Brock, but it's consensual.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Oct 29th 2020 at 11:09:40 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Gotta love Jaws!
Abstain on Mr. Anderson.
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Anderson (though I do love the bastard very much)
Anderson
Okay, upon thinking about it The Master is not fit for this trope, but after playing through another series of hidden object games, i managed to find couple candidates i want to propose
What is the work?
Haunted Hotel is the popular series of hidden object games that set in the same universe as Mystery Trackers. While the first four games were developed by Specialbit Studios and were not connected to anything else and the first trilogy being pretty much stand alone story, from the fifth game onward the series were taken by Elephant Games, who put it in the same universe with their other popular series and tied them with contunity to each other, although protagonists changed every now and then, from Detective James to his relatives or friends. Despite that every game has stand alone primary plot with its own villain.
My first candidate comes from the eight game in the series called Haunted Hotel: Eternity, which follows the nameless Detective, as he was hired by Professor Kevin Reynolds, who was being targeted by the unknown assasin at his public speech. As The Detective saves him and they arrive at the abandoned hotel to hide, he was kidnapped and The Detective must uncover the truth behind the motivation of the villain.
You can watch the entire playthough of the game here, if you are interested, i only link 2-3 relevant parts in the EP.
My candidate is the true villain of the game - Tobias Irving.
Who is Tobias Irving and what has he done?
A former soldier, who served in the military, Tobias cared for his sick brother Terence and tried to get the money to help him. After Terence was tired of being "useless" and wanted to help his brother and make him proud, he applied to the project Eternity, which was supposed to create super soldiers, to be one of its first subjects, but the experiment gone wrong, all subjects were declared dead and it was closed. Tobias, in grief of his brother's death decided to get revenge on the people behind the project.
Tracking down Professor Kevin Reynolds and getting a job as the head of his security, Tobias uses his masked persona to start a shooting at the Professor during his public speech to make his run and let Tobias himself to ride them to the abandoned hotel (which was the secret laboratory, where the project Eternity took place, which Tobias revuild into a building full of traps to serve his own needs) to supposedly get them into a safe place. Pretending to be taken out by the villain, Tobias captured Kevin and hold him hostage, forcing The Detective to solve various puzzles to find out about the project Eternity, revealing that Kevin was one of the people, who was behind it. After that he also captured and killed Douglas, Kevin's driver, who also was behind this project, by injecting him with the same stuff, that was injected into the subjects and dressing him into Tobias' villian costume and sending him to The Detective.
As The Detective suceeds at that and evades couple of his deadly traps, Tobias revealed his identity, saying that now he has nothing to hide and the fact that the subject of Eternity didn't died, but were transformed into energy beings, nearly all of whom apparently lost most of their sapience, revealing his motivations and unleashing his brother, who was transformed into the energy being upon The Detective.
Believing The Detective to be dead, Tobias tied Kevin to a chair and was prepared to torture the confession out of him, so he could reveal all this to the whole world, despite Kevin beggin him to spare him. As The Detective has him confronts him, Tobias injects himself with the serum and transforms himself into an energy being and escapes, remaining at large and free of any punishment for the rest of the series.
Charming? Charismatic? Magnificent?
Well, Tobias lacks any of the mitigating qualities of the most of the baddies from the series, who despite being given sympathetic traits, were either victims of someone's manipulations, petty, sadistic, prone to breakdowns or victims of the circumstances. Tobias managed to gain the trust of his target, such a trust that none has suspected him of anything until he revealed himself. He created a pretty neat scheme to lure his targets to the place, where the experiments happened, which he rubilded to serve his own needs, to let them see what happened there. Efforetlessly capturing both Kevin and Douglas, Tobias forces The Detective to solve his puzzlesto let him uncover the truth, so he could reveal his motivations later on and convince The Detective that Kevin deserves to die. Nearly killing The Detective several times, Tobias evaded capture and escaped, accomplishing at lest some part of his goal (killing one of the people behind the project, Douglas, and revealing the truth), remaining at large and free of any punishment for the rest of the series.
Too much of a bastard?
Despite his motivations and care for his brother, Tobias still was willing to brutally murder and torture the people behind the project, who are not portrayed in the game as being evil at all. Despite everything, all the audiologs and text showcased that none of the heads of the projects knew what effects it will cause upon the subjects and close it down as soon as the project failed. At least Kevin was portrayed as having good intentions behind his involment, wanting to advance humanity. And overall, considering the heinous standard of the series, where 70% of the baddies have dozens of victims under their belt and numerous tortures and cases of Fate Worse than Death, Tobias is not heinous enought to be too vile for this trope.
Final verdict?
What do you think?
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tobias.
Yes to Tobias and here's what I've got going up this week:
- Code Geass:
- Emperor Charles zi Britannia, 98th Emperor of Britannia, presents as a fascist Social Darwinist who believes in a world where equality cannot exist. In truth, Charles' views were shaped growing up in the brutal, cutthroat court of Britannia until he and his twin brother V.V. outmanuevered their enemies to make Charles Emperor. Secretly researching the Geass and testing his many children, Charles utilizes his empire as little more than a distraction, placing his children in Japan to eventually gain access to the Sword of Akasha. Playing the entire world, Charles eventually sees his twin brother dead for his own betrayal and to seize immortality, intending to initiate the Ragnarok Connection and kill "God" itself to merge mankind into one single mind.
- Empress-Consort Marianne vi Britannia, aka "Marianne the Flash", is Charles' true love and a match for him in ruthless deception. Known for her immense piloting skill and iron will, Marianne was betrayed by V.V. who loathed her influence over his brother. Transferring her mind into the young girl Anya Stroud, Marianne remains dormant there, taking control as strategically necessary to deceive her enemies and even her own children to help Charles pull off the Ragnarok Connection and bring about the world both seek.
- Killer Killer: The titular "Killer Killer", Takumi Hijihara is a suave assassin who uses his skill to protect the world from other killers. After surviving a massacre committed by Mukuro Ikusaba, Takumi joined Future Foundation's 6th branch, partnering with Misaki Asano to investigate and stop prolific killers. With his ability to enter the killer's mindset, Takumi is able to figure them out before grading and killing them with a similar method to the killers' own MO. When his old friend Shuuji Fujigawa returns and takes Misaki and places a detonator on her neck which will activate a massive bomb killing millions unless Misaki is killed, out of jealousy of their budding romance, Takumi outs himself as Killer Killer, willing to become a fugitive to protect Misaki and defeats Fujigawa, deactivating the detonator with his cutting skills before running away taking Misaki with him to be with her in hiding.
- Saint Seiya:
- Gemini Saga is a man who had wrested with the evil in his heart his whole life. After murdering the Pope and taking his place, Saga frames the pure-hearted Gold Saint Sagittarius Aiolos for his attempted murder of baby Athena and has him mortally wounded, ruling Sanctuary for thirteen years with almost nobody the wiser. Having his forces close in on Athena, Saga later recovers his goodness and ends his own life to atone for his misdeeds. Later revived by Hades, Saga turns out to deceive Hades the whole time to free Athena from mortal constraints and gives his life to help Seiya and the other Saints.
- Virgo Shaka is known as the Man Closest to God. A living Buddha, Shaka is known as perhaps the mightiest Gold Saint and one of the craftiest. Effortlessly outplaying Leo Aiolia, Shaka controls his mind to send him to fight the Bronze Saints and later faces Phoenix Ikki as a skillful fighter. When the revived Gold Saints come to Sanctuary, Shaka effortlessly defeats Hades' Spectres and then allows his own end at the hands of the revived Saga, Shura and Camus to send his soul to aid Athena to the end.
- Capricorn Shura is one of Saga's Co-Dragons, helping to keep control of Sanctuary and directing their forces for total control despite known Saga is an imposter. Having lost faith in humanity, Shura reveals himself as a dangerous and skilled killer who faces Dragon Shiryu, finally overwhelmed as Shiryu prepares to sacrifice himself. Recovering his ideals, Shura gives his own life to preserve Shiryu's, later returning as part of Saga's conspiracy to help Athena and participates in the final sacrifice to assist the Bronze Saints.
- Sea Dragon Kanon is the twin brother of Saga, the leader of Poseidon's Mariners who helped to awaken Poseidon to manipulate him and the Mariners in flooding the world. Using them as his secret army to help pave his own road to world domination, Kanon later repents and inherits his brother's mantle as "Gemini" Kanon, ultimately proving an invaluable ally who infiltrates the underworld to help stop Hades and dies a loyal Saint of Athena in a suicide attack against one of Hades' top minions.
- Wyvern Rhadamanthys is perhaps the most powerful of Hades three Judges of the Underworld. Distrusting the revived Gold Saints, Rhadamanthys sends a secret force of Spectres to attack Sanctuary behind his superior Pandora's back and lures three Gold Saints to a trap where their powers are reduced so he can easily defeat them. When the Bronze Saints team up with the supposed defector Lyre Orphee, Rhadamanthys is the only one to block his binding music and deals him a fatal blow. Forming an enmity with Kanon, Rhadamanthys is able to even go head to head with the Gold Saint, showcasing himself as one of the mightiest and most intelligent generals in all of Hades' army.
- Charade: Carson Dyle was once an OSS agent transporting money when he was seriously wounded and Left for Dead by his comrades, spending the next 10 months in a German POW Camp in lingering pain. Resolving to take revenge on his ex-partners and reclaim the money, Dyle takes on the identity of a CIA agent named Hamilton Bartholomew to keep tabs on them before murdering Charles Lampert, the last man known to have the money. Summoning Charles' widow Regina to inform her of her husband's dealings, Dyle plays the part of a Reasonable Authority Figure throughout the film while systematically stalking and murdering his ex-partners and doing his best to discredit Brian Cruikshank, the real government agent sent to retrieve the money. Finding himself face-to-face with Regina and Cruikshank, Dyle comes within a hairsbreadth of killing Regina before being killed by Cruikshank.
- The Da Vinci Code: Sir Leigh Teabing is a wealthy and brilliant British Historian whose desire is to find the Holy Grail to use to reveal the truth about Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene and expose the church's lies. To his ends, Teabing convinces Bishop Aringarosa and Warrior Monk Silas to join his cause, having the latter kill multiple members of the Priory of Sion and framing his friend Robert Langdon for the murders, forcing Langdon and Sohpie Neveu to come to Teabing for help. Smuggling Robert and Sophie out of France an into London, Teabing frees Silas, having him hold Sophie hostage while having his servant Remy hold Robert at gunpoint, forcing Robert to hand over the cryptex containing the map of the Holy Grail's location to them. Teabing goes with Remy and Silas where he kills the former and sells the latter out to the police once they served their purpose to him. Teabing then reveals himself to Robert and Sophie where he forces the duo to solve the cryptex's puzzle and retrieve the map for him by holding them at gunpoint.
- The Veil (2016): Jim Jacobs is the charismatic leader of the Heaven's Veil cult who uncovered the secret to transcend life and death. Leading his cult to remote areas and putting them under his sway, Jacobs teaches them what he has learned to help remake the world. Eventually bringing a mass poisoning with plans to revive them from beyond death, the arrival of the authorities results in a misunderstanding and the deaths of all of Heaven's Veil. As a wraith, Jacobs has his daughter Sarah lure in the children of the officer who killed him and a documentary crew to take their bodies and revive himself with his cult, intending upon leading his revived followers to dominate the world, proclaiming the deathless eon has begun.
- The Fell of Dark, by Caleb Roehrig: Vivian Duclos was once an ambitious woman who refused to abide by the time's sexist standards and educated herself within a witch coven before opting to become a vampire. Revitalizing the vampires after her sire's death, Duclos resolves to craft a utopian world for humans and vampires, allying with Azazel to do so and showing ruthless cunning and guile at every turn. Crushing any who dare plot against her while showing a kind side to her subordinates, Duclous ultimately outplays Azazel when she realizes he means to betray her and ends the book with her grasp on power stronger than ever.
- The Worst Witch (2017 series): Agatha Cackle is Ada's evil twin sister who desires control over Cackle's Academy. In the series premiere, she puts an obedience spell on the soup being served at the school celebration. When her scheme is discovered, Agatha challenges Ada to a Witches' Deal which she manages to win. After getting her powers removed, she spends the rest of the year occasionally masquerading as her twin sister in an attempt to restore her powers, eventually regaining her magic and teaming up with a vengeful ex-teacher to sow discord across the school. When the students rebel against her and take back the school, Agatha is sealed away inside a painting. She manipulates Ethel Hallow into freeing her, then impersonates Miss Cackle and secretly changes the rulebook, tricking most of the students into transporting themselves into a place called Vanishment where they would all be killed, and ultimately decides to kill herself when she is defeated.
- The Stupendium: Tom Nook is the charismatic founder of the "New Horizons" project, which is actually a huge scam to con people out of their money. Advertising the island as paradise, he purposely leaves it unfinished, forcing the residents to pay their rents if they want to live comfortably. Nook plans for the houses to break apart in a few years, with Nook then advertising a new island to move to, and the villagers moving to that island, thus repeating the cycle, with the villagers none the wiser. Criticizing the Mayor for bringing Isabell to drink out of stress, he then pins all the blame onto him, causing him to be the scapegoat, with nook getting away with everything, becoming a millionaire in the process.
- Fallout: New Vegas:
- Robert Edwin House is the multi-billionaire leader of New Vegas and one of the major factions vying for control of the Mojave Wasteland. Mr. House created the Strip, an oasis in the wasteland where people can gamble, drink, and bang as long as they have the cash for it, and took advantage of the situation with the NCR and the Legion to bolster his own defenses and revenue, while keeping his agenda hidden. If the Courier chooses to help him, House enacts his plans; he activates his Securitron army, deals with potential problems via their destruction or cooperation, tries to save NCR President Aaron Kimball from assassination to use him as a political scapegoat later, and holds the NCR at gunpoint to accept the terms of surrender he made for them. Through it all, House is suave, ruthless, and deeply pragmatic, while showing his benevolent side during his interactions with the Courier.
- Chief Hanlon is the leader of the New California Rangers and by far the greatest tactical mind in the Republic. Growing the Rangers from a small abolitionist group to a large and well trained special forces, Hanlon is beloved by the common people of the NCR for overseeing the first defense of Hoover Dam. Knowing the Legion veterans and officers were always in the rear, Hanlon set up squads of snipers to pick off the elites and send the Legion recruits into chaos. Tactically retreating, Hanlon drew the majority of the Legion army to a town he rigged with explosives and destroyed the Legion's army in a moment. Years later, watching the NCR stretch itself to the breaking point to defend the Mojave and be bled of its wealth by Mr. House ultimately leads Hanlon to falsify the army's reports sent back home and intentionally sabotage his own side to force the government to bring his men home from a hopeless war against Caesar's Legion.
- Ulysses is the darkly philosophical overarching antagonist of the game's DLC chapters. Long before the events of the game, Ulysses discovered the Divide, a settlement that closely resembled the Old World, one that he loved and could pledge his loyalty to. After the Courier inadvertently caused its destruction, however, Ulysses would recognize the impact a single person could have in the Wasteland, and sought to replicate it for himself. During his journey, Ulysses effortlessly manipulates the Think Tank with an Armor-Piercing Question into giving him nuclear firepower, and tricks the malevolent Father Elijah into hunting for the Sierra Madre, knowing it'll be his undoing. In the Lonesome Road content, Ulysses goads the Courier into confronting him at the end of the Divide to showcase his master plan—to end the Mojave conflict with nukes so that a new civilization can rise from the fire—while setting up their climatic battle so that he almost always comes out on top.
- The World Ends with You is full of cunning sarcastic schemers amongst The Reapers but these three stand out:
- Megumi Kitaniji is the true Big Bad of the game, second in power only to Joshua. Ruling the underground of Shibuya in Joshua's absence as its Conductor, Kitaniji assigns Game Masters to each week to act as his Proxy while vying for control against Joshua and seeking to give order to Shibuya through the O-Pins. Kitaniji takes non-refundable entry fees — including Neku's memories — and forces Neku to play another Game while holding Shiki as his new fee. As Neku begins the game, he takes Shiki as his entry fee knowing very well how much she meant to the boy. Kitaniji also has Beat hunt his own friends down in an attempt to erase them. In the third week, Kitaniji brainwashes the entire town with the O-Pins and merges with Joshua to become the final threat. Even in spite of his viciousness, Kitaniji has Beat, hunt down Neku and Joshua in an attempt to erase them. Despite this he has nothing but praise for his minions and even Neku, and gracefully concedes defeat to Joshua once he's proven himself better.
- Yoshiya "Joshua" Kiryu starts the game as a helpful if obnoxious partner in Week 2. In reality, he is Shibuya's UG Composer making him the Greater-Scope Villain of the Reaper's Game. Besides handing out orders from behind the scenes he fools Neku, the game's protagonist, into believing he risked his life for Neku and defeated Neku's killer. In reality, he killed Neku to use as a Proxy to win the True Game with the game's actual Big Bad Megumi Kitaniji: the Conductor. While he may have originally planned to erase Shibuya, Neku's reliance on the people around him restored his faith in humanity, convincing all the players — even the ones who didn't make it — a second chance at life. Neku monologues in the end that while he couldn't stand Joshua, he's grateful for meeting him and he trusts him, even being unable to shoot him when Joshua offers to make him the Composer through his own death. Even in the failure of his own goals of destroying Shibuya, Joshua still managed to win in the end.
- Sho Minamimoto is the rogue Week 2 Game Master of the Reaper's Game. He starts by attempting an assassination on Joshua in the RG, which fails, but he comes out unscathed. As game master, he makes increasingly cryptic clues for his missions, which only Joshua is able to figure out. Then he makes a Tin Pin Slammer mission that nearly gets Neku and Joshua erased, had it not been for two other players, which Minamimoto has erased by Taboo Noise after a Level i Flare while he is forced to revive himself with a Taboo Sigil, and reveals his ultimate goal: to dethrone Joshua as the Composer, and were they on a level playing field in their second bout, he might have succeeded. Even then, his intelligence was enough that Coco, Joshua's other adversary revived him to compete in a final Reaper's Game.
- Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair: The "Ultimate Breeder", Gundham Tanaka at first glance appear to be just a Chuunibyou, but later proves to be one of the series' best killers. Throughout the game Gundham appears passive, however at Chapter 4 when Monokuma abducted the students and trapped them in his Funhouse to starve to death unless a murdered occurred, Gundham instead of doing nothing and dying, decided to kill to resolve the situation. Taking advantage of the tools in the Final Dead Room, mechanisms of the Fun House and Nekomaru's robotic body, Gundham lured him into isolation before challenging him to a battle to the death, committing a complex murder while creating a solid alibi for himself, but due to bad luck he's forced to compromise, avoiding suspicion until the end due to an unforeseeable circumstance. When confronted for his crimes after getting voted, Gundham explained he didn't want to just give up due to his belief in life, claiming it was a better outcome than death before encouraging the rest to never give up their lives for those died, facing Monokuma's execution with dignity. With resolve, Gundham shows himself as a man with the will to sacrifice for the group.
- Zero Escape:
- Zero I/Akane Kurashiki/June leads Crash Keys to save the world from Free the Soul. After being captured and experimented upon, Akane psychically sends herself to the future, where she disguises herself as "Zero", kidnapping several people, including the executives who kidnapped her, and forcing them into the Nonary Game. Monitoring the game alongside her brother, Akane strings along her enemies to see them eliminate each other and keep the truth of the game from them, successfully getting Junpei to save her past self before fleeing with her brother. Years later, Akane teams up with Sigma Klim to create a second Nonary Game, forcing a younger Sigma and Phi to develop their own time travel powers in the name of saving the world from a deadly virus through complex planning, then infiltrates the facility where the virus was unleashed in the future, and through her determination manages to save the whole world from the evil Brother/Delta.
- Virtue's Last Reward: The brilliant Dr. Sigma Klim is Zero, mastermind of this game's Nonary Game and the protagonist's future self. A revolutionist in the fields of science and leading doctor in curing the Radical-6 pandemic, Klim intended to prevent the spread of Radical-6 and nuclear apocalypse from happening by training his past self and Phi into mastering their psychic abilities to jump into different timelines and travel back to where the infection first started and stop it. Setting up the Nonary Game as the training ground for the two, Klim place the two and the others kidnapped players, including his loved ones, in a Deadly Game of trust and betrayal with death lurking in every corner, even letting a terrorist and the virus itself run rampant to force Phi and Sigma in danger to grow their psychic abilities. Once the two prove they mastered their power, Klim had Akane sent to the past and taken to ground zero of the virus and put a stop to it. A man with plans to save the worlds, Dr. Sigma Klim would even create a death game to achieve it.
- Biggie Smalls song converted into Short Story form by college kid, tribute to the Notorious B.I.G: In this short internet story based on the late rapper's song, the Notorious B.I.G. a.k.a. Frank White and his childhood friend Arizona Ron are gangsters planning to steal from other criminals Frank was supposed to make a deal with. Hoping to escape crime with the stolen money and take care of his two daughters in Frank's case, the duo reacch the motel where the former is supposed to meet the other criminals. Coming to the criminals' room, Frank and Ron set aflame kerosene, forcing the criminals to get out of the room, and killing them the second they flee, in order to make sure there wasn't a trap inside the room. Taking all the money inside the room, Frank and Ron took advantage of the activated smoke alarms to hide amongst the panicked crowd, unnoticed by the criminals' reinforcements. Successfully escaping the motel in their car, Frank and Ron got away in their car with little comeuppance for their deeds.
I'll start working on putting that up in a few hours.
Edited by 43110 on Oct 30th 2020 at 1:53:22 PM
Not sure if this matters in the grand scheme of things, but since the Leigh Teabing example is for the film and not the book shouldn't the link be Film/TheDavinciCode rather than Literature/TheDavinciCode? Of course the reason it might not matter is the former is a redirect for the latter.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I know that it was more in my mind for clarification purposes. If somebody comes across it on the MagnificentBastard.Film page, I wouldn't want them to be confused.
Edited by jjjj2 on Oct 30th 2020 at 11:12:41 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Hmm... it's a redirect so I was just going to leave it. IIRC you said the book version had issues so for now I'm just going to make a film section on the YMMV and put it on the film page. If G would like he can add clarification to the entry later.
Goku Black
Tobias
Works usually redirect like that if their arent enough changes between adaptions to justify a new page being made.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 30th 2020 at 7:49:32 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Any other feedback on the drafts?
I guess since it's pretty much the norm to pothole something for the character's name, we should go ahead and pothole something for House and Ulysses.
I was thinking Shadow Dictator for Robert Edwin House and Evil Counterpart for Ulysses. Any other suggestions?
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Oct 30th 2020 at 10:20:49 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Got us a potential trio:
What's the work?
Dracula, Motherfucker! is a graphic novel, written by Alex e Campi and drawn by Erica Henderson. In 1889, Vienna, Dracula was defeated and sealed off...now he's back. Journalist and photographer Quincy Harker is caught in the plot and lured in by a group of mysterious ladies who have an old grudge against the Drac. I give you the Brides: Aleera, Verona and Marishka.
Who are the Brides?
Yes, they were named after the Van Helsing brides...the trio were Dracula's vampire brides back in the 1800s, young and beautiful women turned by the ancient monster that was Dracula. The three loved him until they realized something: Dracula was playing them against one another. Why would a creature so old take young women as his consorts? Dracula manipulates them, plays them against one another and has them increase in power so he can destroy them and steal what belongs to them, starting the cycle over again. However, these three realized what he was trying to do and lured him into a trap, impaling him and leaving him weak, hibernating and bound him in a coffin which eventually found its way to the States...where he was free.
Realizing this was a bit of a problem for them, the Brides have since become...good friends and maybe more depending on itnerpretation, kind of living quietly until they realize their old husband is back. Aleera rescues Quincy and leads him into the whole affair with her, helping to recruit him to fight Dracula's newest brides. By the end, Dracula attacks, the ladies dealing wth his other brides and using Quincy as bait. When Dracula bites him, the brides have him vulnerable and spring their trap, revealing something very important: they've learned from him and had taken "grooms" to enhance their own power as well. Alone they're no match for Dracula. Together? More than enough. Dracula is overwhelmed by them, shrieking at them for being faithless before he's torn apart and destroyed...as Quincy awakens in their suite later with the ladies offering him a glass of wine and a welcome to the family.
How do they operate?
Shockingly well. The Brides are nothing but charming, charismatic and intelligent who overthrew and defeated Dracula after stopping his sick little game. And since then, they've been prepping. They manipulate all others about there, from Dracula to Quincy and have manipulated other vampires so they could kill them and steal their powers to be powerful enough to stop Dracula as a trio.
And they win.
Are they too bad?
They're never shown killing innocent people, but they seem to have no guilt at all about being vampires and feeding on blood. They do make men into vampires to lure them to eventual death, but they seem to only do this with people who are already pretty terrible like Dracula, as opposed to Dracula corrupting innocent young women for a sick game and to keep himself going. Their play is pure pragmatism, Dracula's is much worse.
Dracula also wracks up a massive string of corpses in his path. The Brides...don't. They pretty much just want to live in peace and be done with Dracula himself, and despite using Quincy, they do save and apparently turn him, in addition to being rather friendly and bonded between one another.
Conclusion?
I'd give the ladies a yes.
Lizzid people!
Yes there
Goku Black
Brides
Gotta love Jaws!
Yes for Tobias Irving and the Brides.
Edited by Amanofmanyinterests on Oct 30th 2020 at 10:27:51 AM
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
Kazuya I have no idea what you're trying to say... unless shit like rape and racism are part and parcel of whatever genre or medium you're looking at I think it's obvious that being a character from it doesn't constitute a bar to counting.