Is this an example?

I don't think so. I get that Moriarty is iconic. However, that trope seems to involve each villain being a different person.

It counted for Film.Sherlock Holmes A Game Of Shadows, which I why I ask.

The Owl House and Coyote Vs Acme are my Roman Empire.

Okay, thanks for explaining that.

But the jealousy and potential younger boytoy are not written to be optional requirements for Mal Mariée. It even lists itself as a subtrope of Sympathetic Adulterer. Sometimes things are just not examples.

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Saved by Canon is about pre-se-inter-quels, but is it flexible enough for a first episode that tells you who lives, then a How We Got Here flashback? Both seasons of The White Lotus begin with a main character in the aftermath of a death (who is not revealed to the audience) at the titular hotel, then jumps back to a week prior. Tensions then build until someone ends up in a body bag, while we know the whole time that those characters alive in the opening will make it out.

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 6th 2022 at 11:30:06 AM

Found this example in Reformed Rakes, Literature folder.

• Youth in Sexual Ecstasy arguably could be a reconstruction of this, the protagonist after being an expert womanizer, ends up settling down with a more prudish and conservative girl. It is stated that his past sexual experiences still do some harm to the sex with his wife, however, despite this with The Power of Love they are able to overcome them and become Happily Married.

1) Examples Are Not Arguable. 2) Context doesn't show how the work reconstructs the Reformed Rakes trope — it is written as a straight example. Thoughts?

Graffiti Wall

Not sure what it is with Reformed Rake, second time this has come up that I've seen today. Two things:

• Reconstructed tropes are for tropes that are often deconstructed, it's basically being played straight, but rescued from permanently deconstructed status. The trope isn't described as being played straight at all, the trope isn't something that is often deconstructed, and the context (as you already noted) isn't there for any of it.
• To paraphrase the editing tips: Whenever something is written with "Arguably does this" language, it's because deep in their hearts, the troper knew it wasn't really an example.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

(x3) For the Mal Mariée thing, I agree. For the Saved by Canon one, I don't think that counts because those sound like different things to me. I'm not completely sure, though.

(x2) That doesn't sound like a reconstruction to me either. I actually think it's a played straight example; it involves an ex-womanizer eventually becoming a loving husband to a girl he Happily Married. I also agree that the "arguable" stuff is an issue.

From Estrogen Brigade:

• Charlie's Angels had a huge female viewership, because in part the Angels often went undercover in health clubs, spas, cruse ships and other places crowded with men wearing only towels or swimsuits as well as in other places where a hunk would appear without a shirt.
• In Once Upon a Time, both Robert Carlyle and (in a rare female example) Lana Parrilla have developed sizeable, occasionally combative, Estrogen Brigades. Colin O'Donoghue also practically has his own female cult-of-personality on account of his Guyliner.
• The White Queen: Max Irons, Aneurin Barnard, David Oakes and Ben Lamb are all extremely gorgeous in period costumes (and without them!).
• Victorious: Due to the relatively large LGBT Fanbase, many fangirls have admitted to only watching due to finding Elizabeth Gillies attractive. This is helped by the fact that her character Jade is Ambiguously Bi and wears a lot of shirts that highlight her cleavage. In fact, many queer fans of the show go so far as to say Gillies was their queer awakening.

Now normally I wouldn't bring up so many entries at once but they all have the same potential problem. That being that Estrogen Brigade is a large group of female fans who become part of a usually male dominated or oriented fandom because they find a character attractive. The thing is that all these shows were already female aimed and dominated from the beginning so does this really fit the trope?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

I think it sounds like a legit example, and the word "arguably" should just be removed. Reconstruction is about the trope still happening, but in a way that acknowledges the issues rather than glossing over them. The example says that there are issues in the marriage, but those issues aren't completely debilitating roadblocks.

Edited by Eievie on Nov 7th 2022 at 10:07:43 AM

Firstly, it's fine that you brought up several examples at once. Next, I feel those are all misuse because Estrogen Brigade seems to involve a male character/actor.

Agreed, those aren't good examples.

Can Making Use of the Twin cover this situation from House of the Dragon? They had a set of twins playing twin characters already, one of the twin actors got sick, so the other twin wound up Playing Their Own Twin for an episode?

That sounds like an example to me since they were using a twin actor when the other was unavailable at the time.

I agree, Making Use of the Twin cites Wyatt Halliwell form Charmed (1998) as an example, and that was one character who was played by two twin actors.

Edited by SoyValdo7 on Nov 7th 2022 at 1:43:07 PM

Valdo

Does this actually count? On Fire Emblem: Three Houses - Antagonists under Kostas

• Starter Villain Stays: Just like in most Fire Emblem games, a bandit serves as the first villain you encounter. That said, he survives a little longer than your average prologue bandit boss, as he's also the boss of Chapter 2's mission.

While Kostas doesn't die right away he dies only 2 chapters later and does absolutely nothing but run away and try to survive before he's killed by the protagonists to tie up loose ends.

Edited by Agentofchaos on Nov 7th 2022 at 3:48:24 PM

REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her

If he's not seen after chapter 2, he's not an example.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

I agree; characters who qualify for Starter Villain Stays seem to have to have bigger roles.

Some time ago, Amonimus bring this case from Love of Kill and I think that the example can work with a few chances. I want to check up first is fine that I add it (I make it simpler):

• Captive Date: Song spends the first episode (or first few manga chapters) extorting a "date" from Chateau in exchange for information she needs for her day job. It doesn't go well and she ended up leaving the hotel room he takes her to at the end of it. He still manages to force a hug on her before she gets on the train to go home.

EDIT: sorry, StarSword

Edited by SoyValdo7 on Nov 7th 2022 at 3:48:11 AM

Valdo

~StarSword

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Seems okay to me. But Sexual Extortion and Captive Date need their descriptions to reference each other since they're related concepts.

(x3) I think it's alright.

I agree, though I feel that's more of a topic for Trope Description Improvement Drive.

It is my or the YMMV, of Extra Credits feels... very critical of the work? Like some of the examples are a little too harsh to say the less. Here some of them:

• Broken Base:
  • "Western Vs. Japanese RPGs". The episode takes it for granted that turn-based combat with menus is inherently less engaging and interesting than other systems of play, such as Real-Time with Pause or straight-up action. Even at the time, many protested that this was narrow-minded and doesn't dig into actual problems with the model so much as assume it doesn't work. In the years since, with it coming out that there was an audience starving for traditional JRPGs that big publishers refused to make and an ongoing Renaissance of the style, this viewpoint only looks more myopic. But then, as now, the JRPG style has a substantial anti-fanbase who more-or-less agrees that the menu-focused turn-based combat style is archaic and alienating compared to other models, and feels that dismissing it out of hand is the correct way of talking about history. In the end it became just a comment on the problems with JPRG and turn-based combat.

• Overshadowed by Controversy:
  • Extra Credits' reputation has been tarnished by their defense of Revenue-Enhancing Devices used by publishers. Following the scandal caused by Star Wars Battlefront II (2017) s infamous loot box progression, Extra Credits released several videos defending the inclusion of loot boxes and freemium economies in $60 games, claiming that they provide player agency and support developers. Many fans eviscerated their arguments by pointing out these mechanics involve the same tactics used by casinos like the Sunk Cost Fallacy and Skinner Boxes, designed to be predatory and target the gambling-vulnerable for exploitation. Furthermore, their justification that these monetization schemes support developers have been undermined by mass layoffs and poor working conditions of employees, with the profits from lootboxes instead skimmed off by the executives as bonuses and pocketed rather than paid back to the workforce. Even worse is that their defense comes off as hypocritical since they've previously criticized video game industry for using exploitative monetization schemes. Just a critic to loot boxes

• Values Dissonance:
  • Their episode on game ratings pertains entirely to America's ESRB. Game ratings work very differently in most other countries, so viewers outside the US will likely find the episode very confusing.
  • There are people who argue their point of view tends to be a bit Americentric. Which normally isn't much of an issue since they speak from their own experience and make a conscious effort to avoid falling into that trap... but they still fall in it from time to time when they discuss other countries and cultures. For example, in "The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - Best Detective Game Ever Made", they describe the game's narrative as a (successful) attempt at adapting the American Hardboiled Detective genre to video games. The problem is that, even though that interpretation is well-reasoned and may be true to an extent (American detective literature has had world-wide influence, after all), it's still a game made in Poland by a Polish developer based on a series of novels by Polish writer Andrzej Sapkowski, and both have tons of elements from European tradition and folklore to boot. However, they don't mention it at all in the entire video, which some argue implies to uninformed viewers that the game is a pure product of North American culture.
  • Both examples aren't a Value problem. The last bullet us just a critic of the video

What do you think?

Valdo

Feels like something for the Negativity cleanup thread

REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her

Removed from YMMV.MIA about 2 years ago, presumably due to lack of context, but if I add context on how he's The Dreaded due to how Humans Are Cthulhu in the myths of the world of non-humans he's trapped in?

• The Woobie: You can't help but pity Jorge's situation, especially because of the unfair treatment he recieves from the ponies.

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

A while back, this was added to the YMMV page of iCarly

• Condemned by History: When it was still on the air, it was viewed as one of the best sitcoms on Nickelodeon. However, following Dan Schneider's firing from the network, fans became more aware of the show's flaws (such as the constant foot references, sexual jokes, and some rather questionable scenes in general) and reputation behind the scenes, with Jennette McCurdy's memoir, I'm Glad My Mom Died, discussing it. Nowadays, many YouTube comments discussing the show point out that while it's still one of Dan's best shows, it doesn't necessarily top the Bakery's two previous entries.

While the series does have its controversies, as far as I can tell, it's still a fairly popular show, and that's not going into the revival that's currently on the air (which Dan Schneider has no involvement in). Drake & Josh and Zoey 101 are also just as controversial as iCarly if not moreso, for many of the same reasons (in addition to Drake Bell's 2021 conviction for inappropriate conduct with a minor).

I'd say that this is at best Overshadowed by Controversy.

Yes, it's OBC, not condemned. People still enjoy iCarly even if it doesn't seem to hold up as well as it did when we were all children, and Dan's other shows (I'm also counting Victorious and maybe even Sam & Cat, as well as whatever else he made) definitely have major controversies attached as well.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 7th 2022 at 10:32:22 AM

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness