Is this an example?

I agree it's more Elemental Motifs, especially when most gym leaders style their appearances, gyms, and manner of speaking based on their Pokémon type. There might be a few human characters who have Elemental Powers themselves but I think that should only apply to the Pokémon themselves in most cases.

I can't remember if I posted this before in here or in the complaining thread but I deleted this example from YMMV.Be More Chill and want to make sure I was right to do so.

• Pandering to the Base: Given the show's LGBT Fanbase, the revised Broadway version increased number of queer characters was almost certainly trying to appeal to this group.

Thing is, there's only one addition of queer characters to the cast: Michael's gay moms, who are only mentioned in one line. Michael is still just Ambiguously Gay, while the only canon queer character is Rich (who's bi) and he was bisexual in the original script as well. There's a bit of Ascended Fanon here and there but I don't think the queer characters are increased enough to be Pandering to the Base. (Also the troper who added this entry, Rice Romp, has a history of adding complainy stuff to this page.)

I commented out several examples from Personality Blood Types due to being ZCE, but I suspect some of them aren't actual examples, and are simply additional character trivia that they have certain blood types, which is People Sit on Chairs. Can I just cut them?

Examples which I believe are shoehorns.

• Blue Exorcist includes the info for some For those wondering, Rin is type A, Yukio and Shura are both type O, Shiemi and Bon are both type B. Fujimoto's a type AB and Mephisto's isn't given. The characters' persinality "described" by the potholes doesn't seem to match the prescribed bloodtype.
• The manga of Cardcaptor Sakura gives blood types for most (if not all) characters. Even the nonhuman ones. Sounds like random trivia.
• Dream Festival! includes this information on the main characters' profiles. Kanade and Junya are Type O, Shin is Type A, Chizuru is Type B and Itsuki is AB. Sounds like random trivia.
• Parodied in Medaka Box, where every character has type AB. This should probably go to AB Negative, but unless all the characters have the same personality, it's most certainly not an example of this trope.
• In Sailor Moon, all of the main characters and a few minor ones have their blood types listed.
  • Type O: Usagi/Sailor Moon, Chibiusa/Sailor Chibi Moon, Makoto/Sailor Jupiter, Michiru/Sailor Neptune, Haruna-sensei
  • Type A: Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask, Ami/Sailor Mercury, Setsuna/Sailor Pluto, Seiya/Sailor Star Fighter
  • Type B: Minako/Sailor Venus, Haruka/Sailor Uranus, Yaten/Sailor Star Healer
  • Type AB: Rei/Sailor Mars, Hotaru/Sailor Saturn, Taiki/Sailor Star Maker, Naru
  • Sounds like random trivia.
• In Volume 4 of Strawberry Marshmallow, there's a Q&A with a couple of questions breaking up the chapters. Blood type is asked early on. To compare:
  • The Ito sisters, Chika and Nobue, share blood type A.
  • Miu is type B.
  • Ana is type AB.
  • Matsuri is type O.
  • Sounds like random trivia.
• Like many series, My Hero Academia shows little character profiles that include blood type. However, this is actually plot significant, since blood type affects how long Hero Killer Stain's Quirk affects people. Even if the blood types are plot-relevant, I don't think they're examples if the type isn't correlated to personality.
• Aggretsuko mentions that she is type A when she is introducing herself to the audience in both the first episode of the original shorts and the first episode of the Netflix series. Sounds like random trivia.
• In the Japanese version of Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken, the elemental affinity of the tactician (an avatar for the player) was determined by both birth date and their blood type, both which could be manually chosen. In the international releases, since this trope doesn't have as much relevance, it was changed so that birth date was the sole factor in deciding affinity. Blood type influences something else other than personality. It's removed in the international release anyway.
• You can choose a blood type for the protagonist in Tokimeki Memorial Girls Side games. It only affects the horoscope. All of the love interests have blood types listed as well. Cosmetic blood type + Random trivia.
• The original Resident Evil had an intro with profiles of all the characters, including blood types.
  • And all the other characters introduced later get blood types too. Interestingly enough, all the villains seem to have type O. Ironically both Chris and Claire Redfield have type O. Random trivia.
• When Street Fighter II came out, character biographies included blood type. Random trivia.
• The Super Robot Wars series often lets the player select the birthday and blood type of the Original Generation main protagonist. While at first appearing purely cosmetic, their command lists are directly derived from the selection, divided by what astrological sign the birthday falls under and the blood type for a total of forty-eight possibilities. Selecting 11/11 B, the birthday and blood type of head producer Takanobu Terada, provides an Easter Egg set of commands that are usually the ideal possible set or close to it, while the character's default birthday and blood type provide another unique set that normally matches what the character will use should s/he appear in any other games in the franchise. Blood type influences something else other than personality.
• In Valkyrie no Bouken, you get to choose a blood type at the beginning. Whereas blood type doesn't establish your personality type, it does affect the rate at which you level up: A → normal, B → precocious, O → late-blooming, AB → random. Blood type influences something else other than personality.
• Narbonic: In the Director's Cut, Shaenon Garrity mentions that she had blood types worked out for the Narbonic characters. (Mell is revealed to be Type B.) Random trivia.

Edited by Adept on Mar 1st 2021 at 1:28:54 AM

Aggretsuko might count: she's sweet, eager to please, and is willing to work hard, but also neurotic, anxious, and pessimistic.

Otherwise, "blood types are mentioned" is chairsy misuse.

Part of me thinks there's something there, just because as someone with absolutely no cultural connection to this trope I find it otherwise baffling that an author would even determine blood types for their characters in the first place. But if nothing else, they're lacking context.

Maybe the authors just want to give them a complete profile for simply, as I say, an additional trivia? The same way they'd also list the characters' birth dates (which doesn't always fall under Significant Birth Date), best subjects, likes and dislikes, family members, etc. even though these tidbits are never brought up in the actual story. I actually find it more suspect if they mention that every single character have assigned blood types, since I doubt that they'd put that much thought into the minor characters and probably just assign the types randomly.

And how about the "blood types are plot-significant, but not related to personality" examples? Can they be moved elsewhere?

Edited by Adept on Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:18:40 PM

Is this misuse really common? It sounds like we might have a possible TRS case regarding the scope of Personality Blood Types, such as when it affects something besides the personality.

Reposting from the previous page:

Are the following examples from War On Everyone being used correctly?:

• The Alcoholic: Terry Monroe spends most of the movie with his BAC well above the legal limit. He's also usually the driver...
• Cool Car: Terry's 1970 Chevy Monte Carlo, whose all-steel body is substantially more durable than newer vehicles.
  Terry: I love this car, man! It's fuckin' indestructible!
• Dark and Troubled Past: Terry implies that he had an unpleasant childhood when he's getting roughed up by Mangan's goons: "You gonna beat me some more? You gonna cut me? You gonna rape me? Ain't nothin' you can do to me ain't already been done."

Based on the on-page examples, there are about 5 video game entries where the blood type affect stats/powers but not personality. There's at least one Anime/Manga example that uses the trope similarly.

I'm honestly tempted to just cut examples where the personality isn't even mentioned. Other ZCE entries at least say that the assigned type "fits", even if it's not exactly made clear how the blood type fits the personality.

For the YMMV page of Black Panther, there's a What Do You Mean, It's Not Political? example talking about the character's name being identical to that of the Black Panther Party. The problem is that the naming is probably a coincidence, and in any case the character debuted before the party formed. What's weird though is that the entry acknowledges it, so I don't know what the example would even be to begin with.

The point of What Do You Mean, It's Not Political? is that...well, it's not meant to be political. So the name being a coincidence could probably count, at least for modern installments where the name is still shared with the Black Panther party.

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 1st 2021 at 12:49:51 PM

Yeah, it's just that the entry as-written focuses on the very early days of the character and seems to suggest that the character's name is, in fact, not political. I guess re-working the entry would then be better than outright deletion.

Would these examples work for God Does Not Own This World:

• Adventure Time is a Cartoon Network production and has licensed Comic Book Adaptations such as the comic spin-off that are in an Alternate Continuity but Pendleton Ward has no creative control over the storylines or rights to use the characters in the original series. As it is, though, this trope is zig-zagged; Pendleton Ward owns the rights to the concepts, but not the Comic-Book Adaptation and any Canon Foreigner characters who appear.
• General Motors no longer own the rights to the Vauxhall/Opel Insignia Grand Sport, also known as the Buick Regal in the U.S., due to PSA Peugeot-Citroen buying Opel, who designed the car.
• Mazda does not own the rights to the Swaraj Mazda name despite the name suggesting it's a part of Mazda (as it were, it was a joint venture); that's held by the Sumitomo Corporation and now SML Isuzu, despite these appearing on Mazda trucks. Incidentally, Mazda cars are not available in India.

Gonna ask about this particular entry in the character page for Hazbin Hotel under the "Demons in general" folder.

• Complete Immortality: Played With. Demons come in two groups: Sinners and Hellborn. Sinners, people died and got sent to Hell as punishment, cannot die through any method except by an Angel Executioner's Weapon. It is Averted, however, with the Hellborn, Demons who are naturally born in Hell, as they do not have this immortallity and can be killed by more normal methods, with the exception of fire as they are immune to that. Hellborn can even die from old age, though they do age substantionally slower, making them mortal.

This was re-added back with slight edits to the character page by the original troper who wrote it after I took out the original entry, as well as doing some other edits, with this reason:

The original troper re-added it back with the reason:

Aside from some spelling and grammar mistakes, there are some things that make me contest against this entry.

A bit of further recap/context I guess:

• Word of God from a number of prior streams indeed have stated that demons are super resilient. They can be crushed, shot, beat up, and etc. but that doesn't really kill them. The only thing that can kill them permanently are Angel weapons.
  • This fact however was stated at the time with sinners turned demons in mind. For natural hell born demons, the matter is still being explored such as in Hazbin's sister series set in the same universe, Helluva Boss.
  • It's still a bit unclear whether or not hellborn demons share certain traits with sinners and how much.
• Charlie, the main character of Hazbin, was born in Hell and is the daughter of Lucifer, the ruler of Hell. Along with her, there are a number of hellborn demon races/subraces/species which, as of this writing, include imps, hellhounds, owl demons based on Stolas from the Ars Goetia, and succubi/incubi.
  • Charlie is actually a number of centuries old and ages much slower. Word of Saint Paul has stated she can apparently die of old age.
  • Imps are immune to fire but can be killed by being shot.
  • It has not been established if certain traits that certain hellborn have in this matter are shared universally among all hellborn or are only specific to certain races/individuals.
• The main issue in the plot of Hazbin Hotel is that there is an Overpopulation Crisis in Hell. As a form of Population Control, angels from Heaven descend and conduct a yearly purge with the aid of their weapons. As a result, a large number of demons are annually killed en masse.
  • It's not clarified yet if this purge applies just only to sinners, who would naturally be the main source of the overpopulation crisis, or if the killing is completely indiscriminate.

My main concern I guess whether or not sinners in this series qualify as having Complete Immortality per the requirements on its respective trope page. They certainly qualify as The Ageless but I'm uncertain if they actually qualify as being Nigh-Invulnerable Up To Eleven.

While only Angel weapons can permanently kill sinners, they can still be hurt physically. In some cases, the damage that can be inflicted upon them can be quite extreme. This would kinda mean it's not necessarily a case of Nigh-Invulnerability taken to its logical extreme as they are still affected by harm, I think.

As such, I'm confused by this.

So before doing anything and possibly causing an edit war by accident, I'm asking if this is an example?

• Complete Immortality: Played With. Demons come in two groups: Sinners and Hellborn. Sinners, people died and got sent to Hell as punishment, cannot die through any method except by an Angel Executioner's Weapon. It is Averted, however, with the Hellborn, Demons who are naturally born in Hell, as they do not have this immortallity and can be killed by more normal methods, with the exception of fire as they are immune to that. Hellborn can even die from old age, though they do age substantionally slower, making them mortal.

Edited by Elfkaiser on Mar 1st 2021 at 2:50:48 AM

This is on This Was His True Form, in the mythology folder.

• Generally Inverted with the Youkai: when they are killed, sufficiently battered, or simply running out of magical fuel, they revert to their non-human form. Fox youkai will revert to being a fox, cat youkai will return to being a cat, etc.

How is this an inversion? The trope's definition is a shapeshifter returning back to their true form upon death. Did the person who added this assume that the true form had to be human?

Edited by MrMediaGuy2 on Mar 1st 2021 at 3:55:17 AM

@Anddrix:

• The Alcoholic: Needs more context. How much of the movie does he spend above said legal limit? Being drunk once or twice isn't an example. He needs to be drunk most of the time.
• Cool Car: Seems alright. The description of Cool Car includes, "curiously immune to breakdown, physical damage or a realistic fuel range." Although... Does the car's appearance get mentioned in the film at all? If so, including that in the entry might improve it.
• Dark and Troubled Past: Not sure. He doesn't actually say that the horrible stuffs he mentioned has been done to him specifically, but I suppose it can be read that way, and in that case it counts as an Implied Trope. Maybe someone else can weigh in.

Edited by Adept on Mar 1st 2021 at 9:37:03 PM

@Merseyuser 1: You cannot play with Trivia. I think calling a car line a "fictional universe" is a stretch so far Mr. Fantastic cannot do it.

@Elfkaiser: Note that Averted Trope is not worth listing as an example 98% of the time. If it is roughly played straight with the Sinners (and I think it is given the context you have given — Complete Immortality does not mean you cannot be hurt, just that you cannot die) then you can just list that.

@Mr Media Guy 2: I agree; Shapeshifter Default Form can catch that easily.

The original Juggernaut from X-Men is a regular human empowered by a magical gem. While powered he's in fact The Juggernaut; but if the gem is lost or the enchantment is broken, he goes back to be a mere human. In Ultimate X Men he's reimagined as a mutant, he has the same powerset but as a fixed thing. Is it an example of Adaptational Badass? As said, the powers are the same, just lacks the weaksauce weakness.

Is this an example of Mood Whiplash?

Markiplier had several points of his Let's Play of Resident Evil 7: Biohazard where he would go into a scary situation while yelling "I'm a brave boy!" After several instances of him facing horrifying monsters and situations, he's finally able to go after the final boss. He stocks up on weapons, ammo, and healing items and charges out of the safe room. Then he calls out the above mantra and makes a mistake that turns the proud moment into pure comedy:

I'm a brave boy! Oh, wrong door.

Bathos?

I think Adaptational Badass is less about the superpowers themselves and more about the character's combat effectiveness. If he is still roughly as good as fighter as he was then it's not an example. If the weakness removal leads to him being better at fighting, it could count.

Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 1st 2021 at 11:59:33 AM

@Synchronicity: Thanks for the feedback on what to do though there's still some things that are confusing me.

The Complete Immortality page has this as one of the qualifications for what would count for this trope:

Going by this, Sinners in Hazbin would definitely qualify. However, other related trope pages kinda have contradictory descriptions.

From the Immortality page:

The Immortality page also has this listed under Biological Immortality:

From the Nigh-Invulnerability page:

Furthermore in relation to the above, the laconic page for Nigh-Invulnerability describes it as this:

Based on the Immortality and Nigh-Invulnerability pages, Sinners would seem to not qualify for Complete Immortality. They can die and while it is only through the use of Angel weapons, they can still be hurt. To qualify for Complete Immortality based on these pages, Sinners need to be that they can't be hurt from everything, and can't die from everything.

At least that's what I seem to be understanding.

These discrepancies are kinda what are still making me somewhat confused on this whole matter.

Edited by Elfkaiser on Mar 1st 2021 at 10:14:55 AM

First, laconic pages are notoriously inaccurate; there's a whole project dedicated to fixing them. Never assume the laconic is the actual definition of the trope

The "cannot be harmed" in the beginning of Nigh-Invulnerability's description seems to be, like, a "net" thing. You can be hurt, but the important thing is you'll bounce back as if you were unharmed; the page itself has several types that allow for injury: regeneration, Body Surf, resurrection, feel no pain, etc.

Not seeing any glaring contradiction here. The operative word here is tend to. As you pointed out, Complete Immortality says "Nigh-Invulnerability taken to its logical extreme"; the 'extreme' is apparently that the weakness is gone.

However, I have negative zero familiarity with this work, so it is ultimately up to your judgement. If you would like to further tease out the differences between these two tropes, you can also open a separate thread.

Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 1st 2021 at 1:11:52 PM

The contradiction I think I'm seeing is that in most other pages, Complete Immortality is that characters qualify for this when they can't die whatsover hence why it's called complete. In the Complete Immortality page itself however, one of the qualifications for it states a character can still qualify even if they can be killed/destroyed if what can kill/destroy them is very specific.

In other words I guess. In other pages, Complete Immortality = 100% cannot die. In the Complete Immortality page itself, Complete Immortality = 100% cannot die or 99.9% cannot die but what kills them must be very specific.

Complete Immortality by these other pages mean 100% complete. In the Complete Immortality page itself however, something that isn't 100% can still qualify as this trope if the weakness is very specific. That seems to go against what the other pages are saying and what would be generally understood since if a character can still be killed then that means their immortality isn't technically complete.

I dunno. I guess I could do as you have suggested and open a separate thread to discuss this specific issue however dealing with just the example I'm asking about seems to be more than enough for me at the moment.

As for Hazbin example itself, the issue that still stands I guess is that Sinners can be killed. Although Sinners can only be killed by Angel weapons (a Kryptonite Factor for demons that often gets left in large enough quantities behind after yearly purges that there's a black market for them according to Word of God), the main point still stands that Sinners can be killed. If Sinners can be killed then whatever immortality they have technically wouldn't be a complete one.

Edited by Elfkaiser on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:16:24 PM

Is One-Scene Wonder negated if a character who only had one memorable scene in one episode comes back with a more prominent role in a much later episode? Or can it stay but with a note that they were popular even before they got a major role?