To-do list:
- Merge Mary Suetopia's contents into Utopia and move the wicks and on-page examples to Utopia when applicable.
- After the merge is done and the wicks have been cleaned, cut Mary Suetopia and Suetopia.
OP
Note: This thread was proposed by The Mayor Of Simpleton, who gave others permission to make the thread.
First off, big credit to War Jay 77 for the wick check. They said that I or someone else could make this thread if they came up with a solution, so, with permission, I made this.
The problem: Mary Suetopia is defined as, effectively, a Straw Utopia (the name of one of its redirects, actually) that is done poorly. Basically, a Utopia that is poorly-written in a specific way to push the authors beliefs on the audience. There are several problems with this—"trope but done poorly" isn't a legitimate distinction per The Same, but More, the name uses the Flame Bait item Mary Sue, Straw Dystopia examples are bizarrely soft-split on the page, and the examples are a bit all over the place anyway. As mentioned in the beginning, War Jay 77 did a wick check for the trope, which I was granted permission to use in this OP.
The wick check: Link here, but here's the quick results:
- 14/50 examples, or 28%, describe a Straw Utopia,
- 2/50 examples, or 4%, describe a Straw Dystopia,
- 3/50 examples, or 6%, are of a world of Mary Sue characters,
- 7/50 examples, or 14%, are unclear,
- 23/50 examples, or 46%, are ZCEs, potholes, or stray references, and
- 1/50 examples, or 2%, are of other usage.
The wick analysis: Lots of complaining in the usage from what I can see. Also non-complaining Straw Utopias, enough that that could be its own trope. A ton of potholes and ZCEs seem to be present as well. Overall, usage seems to be mostly centered around these three categories.
Solutions? Alright, here's what I came up with:
- Should the concept of a Straw Utopia, basically a utopia written and used as an Author Tract for the author's views, be deemed tropeworthy, we could just rename Mary Suetopia to Straw Utopia and take the "done poorly" angle out of the trope altogether. This may help a little with the complaining, along with more clearly defining the trope. Straw Dystopia examples could either become their own trope or just be removed altogether.
- Should the concept of a Straw Utopia or Dystopia be deemed non-tropeworthy, we could just merge with Utopia (or Dystopia for the latter), for similar reasons that caused Polygon Ceiling to be deemed redundant with Video Game 3D Leap (those being that complaining/done poorly versions of tropes aren't really welcome on TV Tropes.)
What does everyone else think? Any other ideas or suggestions?
Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 19th 2022 at 10:24:57 AM
Asterlix
Waffle Cat (she/her)
from Ooo
Since: Feb, 2022
Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Waffle Cat (she/her)
#27: Sep 12th 2022 at 8:29:21 PM
Yeah, I agree with cutting and merging as well.
Here there be cats.
GastonRabbit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#28: Sep 12th 2022 at 10:30:51 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We do.
Noaqiyeum
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
from the gentle and welcoming dark
(Time Abyss)
Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
#29: Sep 12th 2022 at 10:38:03 PM
...I think there might actually be something to the idea of a Straw Utopia. Namely, a purported utopia that the author uses only to make fun of it, or the idea of utopias in general (Gulliver's Travels has several but especially Laputa, The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas is a Straw Dystopia by the same definition).
Otherwise, cut and merge.
The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
themayorofsimpleton
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
from Elsewhere
(Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
#30: Sep 15th 2022 at 6:01:51 AM
I think we can hook a crowner since it's been 3 days.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
GastonRabbit
MOD
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#31: Sep 15th 2022 at 1:58:02 PM
Done.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Ferot_Dreadnaught
Since: Mar, 2015
#32: Sep 15th 2022 at 3:21:31 PM
Straw Utopia seems the opposite of Mary Suetopia. The former is supposed to be seen as fake (and seems redundant with False Utopia) while the latter is supposed to be seen as a true utopia but audiences find it too unrealistically good to accept.
Straw Dystopia has the same problem as Straw means it's meant to be easily taken down when the definition is the opposite, unstoppable even if it's so self-destructively evil, inefficient, and hated by the masses/power base it shouldn't be.
That False Utopia and other deconstructions of Utopia, and complaints about unfairly/unrealistically well off civilizations, exist show the audience reaction exists.
How about keeping Mary Suetopia but banning examples and making Flame Bait like the other Mary Sue tropes?
WarJay77
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
from The Void
(Troper Knight)
Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#33: Sep 15th 2022 at 3:26:42 PM
Did you look at the wick check? The examples are all over the place; nobody can agree on the "correct" definition in the first place and making it "Flame Bait" won't fix that.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
techno156
from Lost in the wrong part of the internet
Since: Jun, 2021
Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#34: Sep 15th 2022 at 5:58:19 PM
Straw Utopia doesn't seem like that reflective of a name, though, reading more like a paper tiger type perfect society, rather than something a poorly-written perfect society.
The distinguishing factor seems to be that's a Mary Sue Topia seems to be filled with people who avidly support the matching ideology, with little by way of dissent, or their own flaws.
It could be merged with Utopia/dystopia, since there isn't much to distinguish it from that, other than it being Creator's Pet status. As it is, it seems subjective and potentially controversial enough that it could readily become Flame Bait.
WarJay77
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
from The Void
(Troper Knight)
Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#35: Sep 15th 2022 at 5:59:30 PM
Well, yeah, that's why I upvoted "merge" and "cut". I agree that Straw Utopia is a different concept, but I don't care to preserve the "current definition" of this trope in any form aside from just moving examples to Utopia.
Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 15th 2022 at 8:59:49 AM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
#36: Sep 16th 2022 at 12:18:58 AM
Merge with Utopia, cut Mary Suetopia
themayorofsimpleton
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
from Elsewhere
(Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
#37: Sep 19th 2022 at 8:06:28 AM
Should we call this? It's been 4 days.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
(she/her)
#38: Sep 19th 2022 at 10:04:40 AM
Calling crowner in favor of the following:
- Merge with Utopia.
- If Mary Suetopia is renamed or merged with Utopia, cut the Mary Suetopia and Suetopia names instead of turning them into redirects
Ferot_Dreadnaught
Since: Mar, 2015
#39: Sep 19th 2022 at 5:50:34 PM
Should we cut Laconic.Mary Suetopia and Quotes.Mary Suetopia or redirect them? I assume cut.
All the redirects (Straw Utopia, Straw Dystopia, and Suetopia) have been cut save under YMMV Redirects, Mary Suetopia Wick Check, and Trope Report Dummy Edition. Are those ready to go?
the Retromancer
#40: Sep 19th 2022 at 5:54:55 PM
If the main page is cut, clearly the subpages should be cut as well.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#41: Sep 19th 2022 at 6:00:48 PM
I cut the subpages and the Suetopia redirect, since the latter's only wicks were on YMMV Redirects and a draft for next month's Trope Report.
Also, we're not cutting Straw Utopia and Straw Dystopia. We only agreed to cut Mary Suetopia and Suetopia.
Edit: I removed Straw Utopia and Straw Dystopia from YMMV Redirects and redirected them to Utopia and Dystopia, respectively.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 19th 2022 at 8:03:10 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Ferot_Dreadnaught
Since: Mar, 2015
#42: Sep 19th 2022 at 8:16:48 PM
220 wicks
to remove.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Sep 19th 2022 at 8:36:19 AM
GastonRabbit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#43: Sep 19th 2022 at 8:24:29 PM
That and the on-page examples, if anything is salvageable.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
How sweet it is
#44: Sep 21st 2022 at 6:35:01 PM
Mary Suetopia, also known as Straw Utopia, is an odd trope. It uses Mary Sue, but isn't flame bait; it's oddly soft-split with dystopian examples; and seems to be unclear on what it's actually about. 50 wicks will be checked; they will be alphabetized, and potholes and comments will be bolded.
Edit: 56 left.
We're down to double digits. 94 to go.
Copying the wick check to here before cutting.
Mary Suetopia, also known as Straw Utopia, is an odd trope. It uses Mary Sue, but isn't flame bait; it's oddly soft-split with dystopian examples; and seems to be unclear on what it's actually about. 50 wicks will be checked; they will be alphabetized, and potholes and comments will be bolded.
Wicks: 50/50
- Straw Utopia: 14/50, or 28%
- Straw Dystopia: 2/50, or 4%
- World of Mary Sue: 3/50, or 6%
- Unsure: 7/50, or 14%
- ZCE/Potholes/Stray References: 23/50, or 46%
- Other: 1/50, or 2%
open/close all folders
Straw Utopia (14/50)
- Characters.The Pirates Fate: In one ending, she's given power as the unchallenged leader of the world of Perfect Pacifist People once Mila eliminates violence. The world she creates isn't a perfect Mary Suetopia, since she's still slightly oppressive and a Jerkass, but it's better than what everyone had before, and without the capability to hurt, she's not so bad.
- Recap.Duck Tales The Land Of Tra La La: Tralla-La is a parody of the concept, a secluded paradise where there is no poverty, hunger or disease because they dont have a concept of scarcity or currency. The second Fenton introduces something that everyone dont already have, it falls apart.
- Fanfic.The Next Frontier: The kerbals have some elements of this, being a peaceful race of explorers, scientists and scholars with a deep connection to nature through the Kerm groves. Without being a smug Mary Sue Topia full of Perfect Pacifist People, hopefully.
- JustForFun.Inspector Spacetime: Everybody Lives: The Fifth Inspector's final serial "The Hills of Androgyny", where the Inspector saves the eponymous paradise from environmental destruction without a single death. Except her own. And of course, she recovered. It's only going here because it specifies being a paradise. Could've gone in the ZCE bin as well.
- Literature.Candide: After being drafted into the Bulgar army based solely on his height, Candide meets his philosophy professor Dr. Pangloss, who has been stricken with syphilis that he got from a woman working for the Baron,note is shipwrecked at Lisbon, kills two priests and a Jew, meets a woman who is missing half a buttock due to cannibalism, goes to the legendary city El Dorado where gold is the same as dirt, meets someone who assures Candide that the chief occupations of every city, in order of importance, are "love-making, malicious gossip and talking nonsense," goes to Constantinople, and gardens.
- Literature.Kushiels Legacy: Cultural Posturing: D'Angelines love to wax poetic about how advanced, beautiful, and sexually liberated they are. This is a poorly Justified Trope, since Terre D'Ange is quite the Mary Suetopia, for reasons already listed and because everyone else seems to be stuck in the Dark Ages while the D'Angelines are in the Renaissance.
- PlayingWith.Chummy Commies: The communists live in a Mary Suetopia where the communist vision of Karl Marx has been achieved and everyone living in it has Incorruptible Pure Pureness. The capitalists, meanwhile, are all crazy sociopaths.
- TrademarkFavoriteFoods.Literature: In Karen Traviss's books in the Star Wars EU, any and every character who has ever tried this one dense syrupy cake made by Mandalorians has it as their absolute favorite. They say something along the lines of "It's good, but it's not uj cake" approximately every time they eat any other food. It looks like Traviss uses uj cake as shorthand for how incredibly awesome and superior Mandalorians are supposed to be.
- YMMV.A Court Of Thorns And Roses: The Night Court, or at least Velaris. It's a beautiful city that was kept hidden from Amarantha and so was left untouched by her reign. It's one of the most progressive places in Prythian (such as having better opportunities and treatment for women and non-High Fae), almost resembling a modern city in a roughly medieval time period, with shops, cafes, bars, museums, art galleries etc. The Inner Circle are adored by the people and anyone who dislikes or disagrees with them are usually either villains or misguided. Despite being a port city and relying on trade for its economy, no outsiders have ever learned of its existence (which is handwaved by magic wards). That said, there are apparently still issues with poverty and poor housing given Nesta is depicted living in a rundown apartment complex, though the rulers 'resolve' this by evicting everyone, bulldozing the apartments and building a refuge. It's worth noting this apparently applies only to Velaris; the only other places in the Night Court we get to see - the Hewn City and the Illyrian camps - are misogynistic hellholes that thrive on cruelty and violence, with Rhysand making minimal efforts to resolve their issues despite espousing equality and compassion. Velaris is in fact kept hidden from most of the Night Court as well, so only certain 'elite' Night Court citizens get to live there.
- YMMV.Cyberpunk: New Zealand is the closest to it in the setting especially in contrast with Australia, with corporations —and guns under control, environmental laws, and a welfare state. I guess? 'Tis a bit wishy-washy, though.
- YMMV.K Pax: The description of prot's homeworld is basically a perfect anarchist, agnostic society with no violence, everyone is vegetarian, and there are no schools. Criminals are not punished; they are simply "reasoned" with (or they would be reasoned with if there were any there in the first place).
- YMMV.Reamde: Prohibition Crick comes across like this, particularly Jake's household. They acknowledge that they might seem strange to outsiders, and Sokolov in particular thinks that they're paranoid proto-terrorists, but what we actually see of them is faultless. Everyone is friendly, level-headed and well-adjusted in spite of being isolated survivalists, and there seems to be no downside at all to their unusual lifestyle. The fact that they're paranoid gun nuts is actually vindicated by the plot, since catastrophe really does strike their community and they're perfectly prepared to meet the danger.
- YMMV.Reginald Hudlin: What he turned Wakanda into; they're letting people die in agony while they keep the cure for cancer from the rest of the world. The page has since been cutlisted.
- YMMV.Ultramarines: Ultramar is a little empire of prosperity, especially compared to the rest of the Imperium. A lot of this is due to the Ultramarines' rebuilding strategies during the great crusade. The fact that there are seven civilized worlds whose only responsibility is to support the Ultramarines* helps a lot too. It's actually brought up in The Chapter's Due, where it's noted that Ultramar is a warrior society who disdains people who don't pull their weight, and also lacks the crushing hopelessness of the forge and hive worlds so common throughout the Imperium.
Straw Dystopia (2/50)
- PlayingWith.Author Tract: The novel is a Straw Dystopia of paperclip collectors ruining the world. Literally every element of the plot, every detail of characterization, and every last snippet of dialogue conveys Bob's undying hatred for paperclip collecting. In the novel, everyone who so much as touches paperclips eventually crosses the Moral Event Horizon. The climax of the novel is a Character Filibuster explaining every single one of Bob's arguments, in case you didn't get it the first time around.
- YMMV.Wind On Fire: The first book contains Straw Dystopia and Straw Utopias. People in the dystopia take tests constantly to determine their aptitudes. Children — even those only about a year old — who misbehave in public are given demerits, which affect their entire families social status. The child who happens to live with an aunt rather than his parents is grubby and socially backward because "he has no one to tell him to wash". Repeat child offenders get sent to live with the "Old Children", even though being touched by one turns you into one of them and this is universally understood to be Not A Good Thing. The government officials basically state that they want to make life hard for the main characters, because obviously the readers couldn't accept Well-Intentioned Extremists. And yet... you have the chance to improve your status based on your own merits, and if you keep your head down and are good at memorizing the information on the standardized tests, you're pretty much left alone. The biggest problem with this government seems to be that it never considered that different people are competent in different areas. Oh, yeah, and that it doesn't accept that "We're only this way because the magic left! When these ten-year-olds bring it back, it will make everything all better. Somehow." Seems pretty dystopian to me...'
World of Mary Sue (3/50)
- YMMV.The Kingkiller Chronicle:
- The Edema Ruh are the greatest performers in the world. They treat each other like family, with no petty rivalries or distrust between groups. They're always kind and generous to fellow travelers. And they never commit crimes. It's not clear how much of this characterization is due to Kvothe being an Unreliable Narrator.
- The Adem, an entire society of warrior-philosophers. They're ruled by their elite mercenary schools whose martial arts secrets are several orders of magnitude greater than any other society's, to the point that their lowliest, stupidest members look like superheroes compared to other people. They seem to lack crime, corruption and poverty, while all of them have iron-clad composure, and their leaders are selected purely on merit. They have absolutely no sexual inhibitions, yet also no venereal diseases, which is somehow unrelated to having a medicinal skill that inexplicably rivals the greatest academic institutions. They live in great wealth and comfort, but without needless frills or vanity. Their language is far more subtle and elegant than any other and does not even need verbal action. Heck, even their food is delicious. While they do have a number of oddities, those are all justified for how perfect they are: their culture believes that women are inherently better than men, but they are a meritocracy, so their sexism is basically justified by the presumable evidence of this conclusion; and they also disapprove of music played in public, but only because they cherish it so much.
- YMMV.The Riftwar Cycle: The eledhel in Elvandar. They are all morally upstanding, all beautiful, all skilled. Their very home is a work of art, the mere sight of it sure to drive the most grizzled veteran to tears. They harbor no resentment for anyone, regardless of reason. Any elves who don't live as they do are considered unfortunate deviations from the ideal (as the term "The Returning" implies), but are generally happy to abandon their whole life's worth of teachings and values (and, in the case of the moredhel, family and friends too) and go live with the eledhel as soon as they realise how awesome they are. The glamredhel literally skip off to Elvandar as soon as they learn it exists. And of course, moredhel can go "good" and become eledhel, but no eledhel ever goes bad. Ever.
- YMMV.Watership Down: What Watership Down seems to have become in Tales. The warren is a pioneer in democratic government, the protagonists are always ready to help any animal who comes to them with a problem, and they're always right. Could've also gone in the utopia category, but it seems heavily about the perfection of the characters.
Unsure (7/50)
- VideoGame.Culpa Innata: It's the year 2047 and some fifteen years following the Great Economic War. Most of the countries of Western Europe and North America have joined to form the World Union and society is at its most perfect. Sex is entertainment, children are viewed as investments raised in institutions (called Child Development Centres) by teachers, disease and crime have been eliminated and greed is good. Is this sarcastic?
- Webcomic.City Of Reality: An attempt at a Reconstruction. The grimmer and more complicated elements of such a world are addressed in almost every chapter, but the answer is nearly always much more idealistic than most other works addressing the problems would be.
- YMMV.Black Moon Chronicles: Wis tries to run one of these, helped by an extremely elaborate religion that also serves as information relays. The fact that his "Complaints Department" is Ghorgor, a huge axe and a huger grin helps a bit. I don't know. It seems to be an attempted (In-Universe) example?
- YMMV.Fantendo: In the utopian town of Fundale, the local university is the government and strictly controls all aspects of life. Rather than being sent to jail, lawbreakers are "escorted"—permanently kicked out, sometimes along with their whole family. Mild profanity and insults, adult media, and antidepressant drugs (despite many or all citizens having disorders) are legally and socially taboo on the same level as the worst crimes. Only children who can perform well in school are accepted into the town; that is, families are ostracized and escorted if the child ever gets a single C+ or lower. Even though other plausible explanations like school bullying are acknowledged to exist, Fundale seemingly views such grades as automatic proof of domestic child abuse. (And responds by kicking the family out as a unit.) Yet of all things, spousal abuse gets relatively mild punishment, with the partners actually getting split up and no mention of escort. Claimed to be a utopia, but this example only bashes it.
- YMMV.Hertopia: The story is set in an all female country where the women reproduced by parthenogenesis. The culture is run by a council of "Over Mothers", and motherhood — the bearing and rearing of strong, intelligent, competent, happy children — is the ultimate aim of every member of society (they're also cheerfully eugenicist). They are not a lesbian culture: in fact, they're completely uninterested in sex. One expresses to a male visitor from "Outside" a vague astonishment that in his (presumably North American) culture, married couples engage in sex even when they're not specifically trying to conceive a child: "Do you mean ... that with you, when people marry, they go right on doing this in season and out of season, with no thought of children at all?" Gilman may have rejected the idea that men were necessary but she wasn't able to see further than other authors of her time, who all assume the same thing — that decent ladies don't care about sex. Doesn't describe it as particularly good or bad.
- YMMV.The Icelandic Sagas: A peculiar inverted example. Many right-libertarians or free-market anarchists like to point to the Icelandic Commonwealth as the main historic example of a successful individualistic society with the rule of law but no central government or official law enforcement. The sagas, however, frequently demonstrate that the rule of law is pretty useless in terms of actual justice if you have to enforce judgements yourself and the wrongdoer is tougher or more powerful than you are. In history, the Icelandic Commonwealth essentially collapsed into civil war when so much of the agricultually-practical parts of Iceland got inhabited that people who were forced out of their homes or didn't get on with their neighbours couldn't go and move somewhere else. More like a treatise on real life history than anything.
- YMMV.Tales Of The Ketty Jay: The Thacians, possibly. They do civilization and art better than everyone else, and everyone knows it. "Possible" example, no mention of the rest of their society.
ZCE/Potholes/Stray References (23/50)
- Big Rotten Apple: H. P. Lovecraft was a firm beliver in this trope, partially caused by his rather extreme racism and his unpleasant experience staying in New York for a few years in the 1920's. Several of his more controversial stories, such as The Horror At Red Hook, He, and the nearly impossible to find The Street were based on this trope. He takes it up to eleven in one scene where the protagonist is shown New York in it's colonial past, which borders on a Mary Sue Topia that even the Big Bad misses, and then it's far future where it's become a terrifying Wretched Hive overrun by "sinister orientals".
- Evil Overlord: Queen Esmerelda of Magical Witch Punie-chan is the queen of the supposed Mary Suetopia Magical Land. She's also an massively evil being who issues slave labor for public transportation, ruthlessly dispatches with protesters and gained her position via slander and mudslinging against the previous rulers. The main character Punie is a Magical Girl Evil Overlord in training.
- Flanderization: In Warhammer 40,000, the Imperium of Man is continuously suffering from this trope. Every year, it seems to become more repressive, depressing, backwards, ignorant, and desperate. The Space Marines become more Knight Templar, the Imperial Guard becomes more likely to invoke We Have Reserves, and so on. The Tau, however, have received modest character development, transforming from a Mary Suetopia to a more complex faction and one of the few Greys in the usual Evil Versus Evil. Writers have been trying to reverse the process of flanderisation and turn them back into an authoritative and overly bureaucratic but still functional dictatorship with genuine heroes.
- Green Rocks: Another Marvel example is Vibranium, from Black Panther. When introduced, Vibranium was the setting's ultimate Unobtainium; a hyper-durable, Nigh-Invulnerable metal that absorbed vibrations and converted them into durability, so the more you hit it, the tougher it became. To put things in perspective, the famous Adamantium is a softer knock-off version. It was subsequently retconned into also serving as the foundation for Wakanda's ultra-advanced technology, because somehow having access to a super-durable metal translates to figuring out anti-gravity and energy blasters at a time when the rest of the world has only just figured out flintlock pistols. Subverted in Ultimate Marvel, where instead Vibranium is just a super-durable metal and Wakanda is so technologically advanced because it's reverse-engineered a crashed alien spaceship.
- Master Race: My Brave Pony: Starfleet Magic: The winged unicorns of Unicornicopia and their "god" known as Grand Ruler are seen as this. They themselves have no problem to call others out, on how inferior they are to them, because they live on the ground alone.
- Characters.Embers Vathara: Mundane Utility: While Amaya isn't making or breaking a bender on a whim (as some authors would have her), she has proved it a useful tool for people that have happened upon a hostile kamuiy. Not only is this a random pothole, but I have no idea what it's trying to convey.
- Characters.The Pirates Fate: A World Half Full: In one ending, she's given power as the unchallenged leader of the world of Perfect Pacifist People once Mila eliminates violence. The world she creates isn't a perfect Mary Suetopia, since she's still slightly oppressive and a Jerkass, but it's better than what everyone had before, and without the capability to hurt, she's not so bad.
- Comicbook.Secret Wars 2015: Heavy on the idealism side in Captain Britain and the Mighty Defenders, where one society is a Mary Sue Topia and the other a Straw Dystopia. At the end, the idealistic side wins by having the nicer heroes talk the militaristic ones into a fragile peace. And this was accomplished with minimal casualties on the part of the nice guys.
- Gush.Literature: For me, Soul of the Fire was one of the high points of the series. The Anderith subplot was a welcome diversion from the main plotilne. Dalton Campbell was by far the series's most sympathetic villain, committing atrocities for political gain rather than For the Evulz, and the Crapsack World it shows is considerably more believable than the Straw Dystopia in Faith of the Fallen.
- DarthWiki.Rose The Cat: Rose the Cat is an epic 966-episode multimedia dramedy series (taking the forms of a Web Original, a Comic Book series, Western Animation, Audio Adaptation, and a 42-book-long series of Doorstoppers) centred around a mostly Sociopathic Hero cat named Rose. It is based heavily on transhumanist and democratic socialist principles, with the ultimate goal of the series being to reach Eternal Extropy, a state that borders on Mary Suetopia and which may make some people uncomfortable.
- Fanfic.The War Of The Masters: The Moab Confederacy initially looks like a right-libertarian-capitalist Mary Suetopia, much in the vein of Michael Z. Williamson's Freehold Of Grainne. However, author's intent, which Patrickngo admits didn't turn out as intended in the original stories due to a failure to sufficiently show the Confederacy's internal problems, is for it to be a deconstruction. Moab wreaks havoc for several years but gradually overextends itself in its quest to prove its worth to the Klingons and give the Federation the finger. Then the Fek'Ihri invade it. The loss of a vast amount of infrastructure and over 100 million people, coupled with revelations of their use of Child Soldiers and the virtual lack of a social safety net, leads to a bloody civil war in 2412. Among the other notions torn down are far-right ideas on restricting the right to vote: in Moab's case, restricting the franchise to "people with sufficient income to pay net taxes" means it's phenomenally easy for a sufficiently wealthy organization to rig an election in their favor: they just set up a shell company and hire people likely to vote the way they want.
- Literature.A Giant Sucking Sound: Instead of working with the two-party system, Perot chooses to create a third party instead. Unlike many works that portrayed it as Mary Suetopia, the author seems to provide a more nuanced commentary that it made the choice as the least-repulsive option at best, and being similar in flaws and notoriety as any established parties at worst. Up to eleven in the 2000 election, which see third party runs by not only Freedomite Angus King, but Pat Buchanan on the Constitution Party ticket, and Jerry Brown on the Green Party ticket after he loses the nomination for Freedom Party candidacy.
- Literature.Shadowleague: Fish out of Water - Zavahl and, to a lesser extent, Toulac in Gendival —the hundreds of different sentient creatures throw them off.
- SweetDreamsFuel.Anime And Manga: Ristorante Paradiso. Yes, it's a show about a damn near Mary Suetopia of a restaurant. Yes, said restaurant is called "Cottage of the Bear." But it's so sweet and nice that eventually you give in and get your sugar addiction on. My particular favorite episodes are the birthday parties of one of the chefs' son and the owner's wife.
- TheWoobie.Literature: Nicci from Sword of Truth. Her mother, a Well-Intentioned Extremist, continually hammered the teachings of the strawman communists into her head: that beauty is useful only to a whore, and that her life is worthless without self-sacrifice. Her father was a successful businessman who genuinely loved her, but her mother convinced her that he was evil due to his capitalist ways. This sense of worthlessness, combined with her magical training, led her to become a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds.
- Webcomic.Leftover Soup: Robosexual: Lily is apparently not attracted to either men or women, only to inanimate objects. Presumably for this reason, everyone in the Mary Sue Topia she has invented are likewise uninterested in sex with other human beings but make liberal use of Sexbots.
- YMMV.Ardath: Could be one for Theos, also for Corelli herself. Al-Kyris is a place where poets are very highly regarded members of society, although poet laureate Sah-luma is considered the poet, kind of the Prince of Poets.
- YMMV.Jim Button: Except for the obligatory Evil Chancellor (who is disposed of pretty quickly), everything about Mandalia fits this trope.
- YMMV.Okami San: Otogibana City and Otogi Academy are set up to provide a secluded environment where the students can better themselves and use their free will, but Onigashima High was placed there to provide an idea of the negative outside forces the real world has.
- YMMV.Pale Fire: Zembla
- YMMV.Star Destroyer Dot Net: Wong's ripping into Star Trek: Insurrection being about saving a Mary Suetopia whose inhabitants somehow matter more than billions of other life forms and noting just how selfish the Ba'ku would have to be to hoard something that could save billions of lives.
- YMMV.Wings Quartet: Subverted. Avalon may seem like one at first, but that's because they banish all dissidents to a prison camp in Hokkaido, Japan. Was on the page before it got cut.
- YMMV.World Made By Hand: Although it isn't perfect, the author does idealize Union Grove and its people, and how their way of life is superior to Karp Town, the Bullock Plantation and the citizens of Albany. This makes sense because he advocates the creation of towns like Union Grove to be top priority for preparing for a post-oil future.
Other (1/50)
- YMMV.Nation States: Somewhat averted by the game itself, which attempts to indicate that all nation types have their drawbacks, but often played painfully, painfully straight in roleplay.
Edit: 56 left.
Edited by Berrenta on Sep 21st 2022 at 11:40:42 AM
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
kundoo
from the land of Mordor where the shadows lie
Since: Sep, 2010
Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#45: Sep 22nd 2022 at 12:34:40 AM
And done!
There are a couple of YMMV wicks left - it's the ones where Mary Sue Topia is the only trope on the page. I sent them to Cut List.
You didn't see anything.
GastonRabbit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#46: Sep 22nd 2022 at 12:57:33 AM
All right, slapping a padlock on this one.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Trope Repair Shop:
Mary Suetopia
15th Sep '22 1:55:50 PM
Crown Description:
Mary Suetopia is misused and, since it contains Mary Sue in the name, it sometimes attracts complaining due to Mary Sue and its subtropes being Flame Bait. What should be done with Mary Suetopia?
Total posts: 46
I thought mods had access to deleted page histories but w/e.
I'm fine with cut and merge.
Edited by Karxrida on Sep 12th 2022 at 7:29:45 AM
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?