To-do list:

• Move examples to a trope on the Hollywood Nerd trope page if they fit, and remove them if they don't. For reference purposes, here's the list of tropes on the disambiguation page:
  • Adorkable: A dorky, unpopular character is considered cute/appealing by the audience.
  • Cool Loser: A character is treated as an unpopular loser even though they have many qualities (physically attractive, has a "cool" hobby, is social and charismatic, etc.) that should have made them popular.
  • Endearingly Dorky: When a dorky character is considered cute and appealing for their dorky qualities in-universe.
  • Hollywood Homely: A character said to be plain/unappealing in-universe, even though they are portrayed by a conventionally attractive actor.
  • Nerd: A usually intelligent but socially and/or physically awkward person. Often a Bully Magnet in high school settings.
  • Nerds Are Sexy: Nerdy characters are considered attractive in-universe specifically because of their nerdy qualities.

Original post

According to the description, this trope is supposed to describe when a nerd in media is superficially portrayed, such that we the audience are told and shown by how the other characters treat this character that they are a Nerd, but there isn't really anything about their behavior/their interests/what that character engages in that indicates they are a nerd or at best, those things are superficial. Despite that, other characters in-universe still treat the character as if they are no different from any other Nerd: ugly, undesirable, socially inept, etc. In other words, it's a version of "telling not showing," with the character often being styled similar to a stereotypical Nerd, but there isn't much the character actually does to necessarily warrant the label.

However, a lot of the examples (if they aren't ZCE, of which there are many) are just conflating this trope with Hollywood Homely, i.e. this character who is supposed to be a Nerd (and therefore unattractive) in-universe is played by an attractive actor. (This is likely because being attractive is part of the Hollywood Nerd, but it is not the totality of the trope.) A good chunk of the remaining examples remove the in-universe perception all together (i.e. that other characters must treat the Hollywood Nerd like a Nerd in-universe), which ends up amounting to "this character has [what I the troper have determined to be] nerdy qualities/interests and is cute." And there are several other examples that actually highlight the inverse of this trope: a character who is shown to be a nerd or geek due to their interests and habits, but are still considered attractive, social, and desirable in-universe, sometimes because of their nerdy tendencies, but often in spite of them. And then there's others that simply conflate Hollywood Nerd with Nerd, which may be a remnant of a past version of the trope. There's plenty of overlap with the types of misuse but the overall point is that none of them are actually the trope as described.

A wick check on 51 pages (below) shows 0 correct uses, which is not...great. (FWIW, on page examples fair slightly better with 6 (out of 74) fairly correct uses but the overall problem still persists. See sandbox.)

My advice: This trope for the most part seems to be a combination of Nerd and Hollywood Homely so discarding the trope and moving whatever examples are salvageable to the respective pages may be for the best.

Given how many times this trope has been to TRS since its inception (this would be the third I think), I'm not so sure it's workable at this point.

Wick Check: 51

• Correct: 0% (0)
• Hollywood Homely Conflation: 20% (10)
• No In-universe context: 18% (9)
• Unacknowledged Inverse: 2% (1)
• Ambiguous: 2% (1)
• Conflating with Nerd: 29% (15)
• Zero Context: 29% (15)

Examples are listed as - Work Page, Page Where Trope Is (If Not On Main Page), Name of Character (if on a character page): copied example

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 16th 2022 at 6:06:36 AM

We also have Cool Loser for when a character is treated as unpopular despite having every quality that should have made them popular.

Maybe just disambig between Hollywood Homely, Cool Loser, and others?

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I think the different categories I found (when there's enough context to even decide) can fit more or less into the following tropes:

• Hollywood Homely
• Cool Loser
• Nerds Are Sexy
• Nerd
• Adorkable (I know this is YMMV but many of these examples fall into it)

So disambig-ing into these 4 makes sense to me

Edited by amathieu13 on Oct 28th 2021 at 8:30:40 AM

So is there really no room for something like Implied Nerdiness where the onscreen (lack of) nerdiness does not meet their perception by others in-universe? The current trope image seems quite fitting for such a concept. Hollywood Homely is all about looks which is different from quirkiness.

So that kind of demonstrates the issue. The trope image is from Jennifer's Body and that character (Needy) is basically the Cool Loser friend of the titular Jennifer who is the hot chick at school. She's not really supposed to be read as a nerd (i.e. socially awkward, wholly undesireable, social outcast) so much as she's supposed to be read as uncool and socially insignificant relative to Jennifer. Needy has a long term boyfriend and for the most part seems fine with being just the friend of the popular hot chick.

So even that example really boils down to Hollywood Homely.

And the Hollywood Nerd trope is supposed to include being treated poorly / like a Nerd in-universe by others, however the character seemingly lacking any stereotypical Nerd-like qualities apart from the way they are styled.

Edited by amathieu13 on Oct 28th 2021 at 12:21:38 PM

I'm fine with disambiguating in the way you suggested.

Edit: Maybe we could also add Endearingly Dorky for when it's commented on in-universe (as opposed to how Adorkable is for when the audience is the one commenting on it).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 28th 2021 at 11:53:24 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

The image sucks anyway, I'm pretty sure it was put there randomly this year with no discussion, which isn't good since this did have at least one other image before. It not even counting as this trope is the icing on the cake.

The disambig still sounds best to me.

I'm not sure what your Implied Nerdiness trope even means, erock. Why would a trope that seems to apply primarily in-universe be an "implied" anything?

Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 28th 2021 at 4:20:24 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

to disambig.

Oh yes, Endearingly Dorky should also be on the list.

Also should a message be posted in ATT about the start of this thread?

Edited by amathieu13 on Oct 28th 2021 at 7:23:37 AM

Not sure what Implied Nerdiness means either, especially since the term nerd itself is actually pretty vague.

I'm good with disambiguating this.

I actually meant to say Informed Nerdiness, where a character is acknowledged by others as a nerd but the audience sees little proof of it on-screen. Cool Loser may be sufficient as a fallback option though.

Consensus seems to be on disambig. Since this is a relatively widely used trope (1586 wicks and 22 others coming from a Hollywood Geek redirect), should I post about this somewhere before starting the disambig process?

Also, how exactly does disambig-ing work? Like what do I need to do on my end to get it going?

I don't think we have enough consensus. There's only 6 posters in this thread including the OP, and even if we're all in agreement, we probably need more responses before making such a big change.

I don't think Hollywood Homely is really being used correctly in the OP; that's when a character is outright said to be ugly but played by a decent-looking actor (unless we are assuming all nerds are immediately supposed to be homely). Hollywood Beauty Standards (everyone in movies is pretty and there will only be superficial attempts to pretend they aren't) is the appropriate trope.

Otherwise I agree with disambiguating.

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 1st 2021 at 10:51:45 AM

That's what is being implied by the use in the examples, i.e. "Nerds are definitionally supposed to be ugly therefore any nerd who is attractive is a Hollywood Nerd." Which isn't wrong necessarily given how much of Nerd does focus on how these characters aren't seen as physically attractive. That's why Nerds Are Sexy, Adorkable, and Endearingly Dorky etc. exist, to subvert that expectation.

Whether this falls under Hollywood Homely or Hollywood Beauty Standards I suppose is in part based on how much context in how others react to the character is given in the example, but I think that's the point of styling the character as a nerd: to act as visual shorthand for "assume this character is undesirable and unattractive" and thus it justifies the negative treatment they will receive by cooler / popular characters. That's what Hollywood Nerd is trying to be about at the very least.

Issue is though that the vast majority of the examples don't discuss this^. Regardless, adding Hollywood Beauty Standards to the disambig list is a good move. Actually, that might be the correct trope analog for the "no context provided" category I listed.

Edited by amathieu13 on Nov 1st 2021 at 1:39:54 PM

I put a notice out in ATT earlier today about this thread to get more input

I've always thought this and Hollywood Homely have had a bit of a gushing problem. A lot of the examples for both read like "Alice Adams' character Belinda is supposed to be a nerd/unpretty but Alice is soooooo sexy. Personally, I'd love to have sex with her!" I'd like to see both tropes reworked into the more analytical and less drooly Hollywood Beauty Standards, but I'll settle for seeing Hollywood Nerd get the axe.

Koichi really steals? No dignity.

Disambiguating it has my vote.

Mine too.

Perhaps this thread is ready for a mod to make a single-prop crowner? I don't think we have any other options.

I hollered to ask.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Hollered again.

Attached a crowner.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I'll post in ATT that a crowner has been made