To-do list:
- Since this was disambiguated between Combat Tentacles, Lightning Lash, Tail Slap, Vine Tentacles, Weapon-Based Characterization, Weapon Specialization, and possibly other tropes, move wicks that fit other tropes accordingly, and remove Chairs-y examples.
Original post
Note: This thread was proposed by MacronNotes.Macron's OP
Whip It Good is a trope about the use of whips as a weapon but that isn't tropable on its own. The description notes that whip owners tend to be domineering or seductive but that isn't reflected in most of the on page examples and wicks. I conducted a wick check and most of the examples that weren't ZCE or "whip as a weapon" were covered by other weapon/whip related tropes.Wick Check Percentages
- Just whip as a weapon—13 wicks~~~26%
- Character carries a whip for the aesthetic—2 wicks~~~4%
- Covered by Other Tropes—22 wicks (including two of the wicks from the "Multiple entries" category) ~~~44%
- Whip It Good + additional context—4 wicks~~~8%
- Other~~~2%
- ZCE/Insufficient Context—10 wicks (including two of the wicks from the "Multiple entries" category") ~~~20%
Solution
I think the best course of action would be to disambiguate Whip It Good with the following:and yard the Whip of Dominance concept because I didn't find enough good examples on that.
Wick Check
- Characters.Between My Brother And Me Ab Inito: Carries a whip which she uses to lashes out at Molly.
- Characters.Kamen Rider Revice Happy Spa: Under Prehensile Hair "Her ponytail can be extended and used as a whip"(pothole)
- Characters.Lulus Bizarre Rebellion Britannia: He pulls out a whip during the final battle.
- Characters.Dungeons And Dragons Classes Fourth Edition Classes: Under Evil Weapon— Gloom Pact Whips it good with the Scourge of Exquisite Agony.
- Film.The Jade Faced Assassin:The oldest sister of the Chang Clan uses a whip in her fight scenes.
- Funny.Dragon Quest The Adventure Of Dai: Flora takes them down in one fell swoop with her whip
- Funny.Tiger Mask W: And one of the wrestlers tries and asks her out until Miss X whips him in the ass (pothole) and sends him back to train.
- ImprobableWeaponUser.Video Games: Namu Amida Butsu! -UTENA-: Kongōman Bosatsu "Leader" has a very long flower garland, which he uses in battle as if it's a whip.
- Manga.Cowa: One human mook uses a whip as a weapon.
- VideoGame.Dark Devotion: Whips are one of the available weapon types.
- VideoGame.Salt And Sanctuary: Whips are available in this game as well, and they scale primarily with Dexterity.
- VideoGame.Unexplored: One of the weapon types. You can also get a Flaming Whip by killing the Balrog.
- Raggedy Ann & Andy: A Musical Adventure: Under Action Girl: Babette is very much a Damsel in Distress in the earlier parts of the story but by the climax [[spoiler: has taken over the pirate ship and is wielding a whip(pothole)
- Characters.Galaxy Angel Video Games: Though she never actually uses it, she's often seen holding a crop.
- Characters.Wooden Overcoats: She carries a whip with her everywhere, though she doesn't seem to use it on the animals.
- Arsenal Attire: In Brave10, both Rokuro and Nanakuma hide their combination whip/rope darts Hidden Weapons
- Characters.Batman Beyond One Shot Villains: The source of his name comes from the robotic whips he had Corso install in his wrists.
- Characters.Common Sense: Vine Whip, though primarily used for restraining and retrieving. Vine Tentacles
- Characters.Digimon World Infamy Coal And His Family: Naturally has the ability to use her extending vines as whips, although nobody probably expected her to start playfully, or semi-playfully, whipping her twin brother a few minutes after being born.(Vine Tentacles)
- Characters.Dungeon Fighter Online Players:Can whip her summons and party members to beef up their stats. Status Buff
- Characters.Fire Emblem On Forums Classes: One of the signature weapons of the Jester line. Weapon Specialization.
- Characters.Going Another Way: Shamsel can use her two long tentacles like whips. Difference is that these things can also slice through almost everything. Combat Tentacles
- Characters.Kamen Rider Den O Movie Exclusive Characters: His weapon of choice is a whip, which he uses to also scatter about exploding tops. (Weapon Specialization)
- Characters.Kaiten Mutenmaru: Meer wields a pair of whips in combat. Weapon Specialization
- Characters.Overwatch Roadhog: His infamous hook deals 30 points of damage and can kill low-health enemies. His hook essentially acts like a lasso to drag and stun enemies into range for a point-blank shot of his Scrap Gun. Weapon Specialization
- Characters.Ranma One Half Major Story Arc Characters: Ebiten's primary means of attack is lashing his foe with his fishing rod's line so that it slices their flesh. He also uses a minor version to capture Akane, sending the line out to grab her by her arm and pull her to the spot in which the group is. Rod And Reel Repurposed
- Characters.Vindictus: Her alternative primary weapon is a spellwhip, which grants her smash attacks and focuses her mana into close and medium range attacks. Weapon Specialization
- Characters.With A Snap: Her main weapon. Bare minimum context but it fits Weapon Specialization.
- ComicBook.Jonah Hex: Stiletta from Hex was an expert with a whip. Weapon Specialization
- Fanfic.The Black Emperor: Lelouch's first Ace Custom, the Raijin, has a pair of whips that can be electrified. Lightning Lash
- Fanfic.Storm Hawks Fan Third Season: Dr. Sins main weapons are whips.Weapon Specialization
- Manga.Takeru:Ogyokura dual wields beam whips. Dual Wielding
- Sandbox.Hellfire: City of Heroes soon-to-be-released Demon Summoning powerset for Masterminds has a few demons that attack with hellfire, as well as giving the Mastermind a whip made of it (pothole). Elemental Weapon
- VideoGame.Nitemare 3 D: The weapon of choice for the stone-wall living statues. Weapon Specialization
- WMG.Kamen Rider OOO: Wani probably grows a tail for Whip It Good (Tail Slap)
- Characters.One For All And Eight For The Ninth: His Quirk lets him create whips of a black material, which he can use to bring targets close or more around.
- Characters.Stormwatch Backlash: As a result of his Kherubim heritage and his exposure to the Gen Factor, Marc Slayton can sprout whips of psionic energy from his forearms.
- DisproportionateRetribution.Literature: [spoiler:Ryker]] prepares a bath for Tierney, complete with flowers in the bathwater. She is left speechless, because back home, bathing with flowers is considered a sin and punishable by whipping.
- FistOfTheNorthStar.Tropes Q To Z:
- Uighur is a huge, huge man running a prison, so the theme of control and enslavement is still there but without any of the usual vampiness associated with whips. In fact, he's presented as a serious martial artist (well, as serious as you can be if you're not named Kenshiro, Toki, Raoh, Souther, or Rei anyway).
- A military-style minor villain from one of the earlier episodes also wields one capable of slicing people in half. For all the good it does him against Kenshiro. Whip indicates dominance
- TabletopGame.Fortune And Glory: Probably the closest this game comes to directly referencing Indiana Jones is the Gear card "Bull Whip". It gives a combat modifier, and can be risked for a chance to change the outcome of a fight.
- Trivia.Devo: Trope Namers entry.
- Characters.Spiral Chaos Characters:
- Under Aruta Catus: Just the trope name
- Under Alice: She can use her tail as a whip, mostly in her first attack, Pendulum Arrow. Tail Slap
- Under Isabella "Ivy" Valentine: Just the Trope Name
- Under Plum: Her Pakkun Whip, used in many of her attacks, including her map move. Weapon Specialization
- Characters.Bravest Warriors: Her Cat Lashes.
- Characters.Firestorm DC Comics: His ropes can be used for this.
- Characters.Sharpe: Berry is eager to use a riding crop on Josefina.
Berry: The Countess has been very naughty, making eyes at Sharpe, making a fool of Sir Henry and calling herself a countess. Very naughty indeed. Naughty girls get spanked and put to bed.
- Characters.Super RWBY Sisters RWBY Characters: Whips it good (pothole) with the Scourge of Exquisite Agony.
- Characters.Tropers The Series: What one seal would have tried on Ladro had they not been left Behind the Black.
- VideoGame.The King Of Fighters 99: Leona Heidern, Ralf Jones and Clark Still return on a new mission, joined by the mercenary Whip(pothole).
- VideoGame.The King Of Fighters XIV: Whip(pothole), Ryuji Yamazaki, Vanessa and Rock Howard
- WMG.Ace Attorney: She charmed a national ambassador who's twice her age within hours, made even Franziska(pothole) and Detective Badd show softness with her.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 14th 2023 at 12:09:40 PM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Right. I don't think whips are inherently meaningless, but this trope as is has very little to no unique meaning.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And also "isn't supposed to be a weapon" is conditional anyways. While many whips were created for animal training, some types of whips were created and made to be a weapon, like the chain whip [1]
and urumi [2]. And even those that weren't created with that intent, we know that for other "weapons", they also didn't start that way. It's an uncommon usage 1) in modern times because melee weapons in general fell out of style and 2) in the "West" because of armored warfare, but that's less of it "not being a thing" and more of a recency + regional bias.
Edited by amathieu13 on Apr 10th 2023 at 7:45:46 AM
That's why I think a "weaponized whip" concept might be tropeworthy. Whips are widely accepted as weapons by media but aren't ones in real life.
And Improbable Weapon User has several sub-tropes for the most recognizable ones, which I think whips would apply.
The Man Outside Reality
Except those are relatively common weapons that were made with the intention of trying to kill someone, especially if it's in a medieval setting. Using a whip in any sense is rather unusual, especially as a weapon. Which indicates there's something to trope here as mentions.
Edited by MatthewWayne on Apr 10th 2023 at 5:13:33 AM
Trust no one.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Isn't a weapon just anything used to hurt someone? I don't see how a whip doesn't count as a weapon. It's not often a battle weapon and especially not a murder weapon, but it's still a weapon that's designed to inflict pain on people. And that's the point of most battles in fiction; it's not all about killing.
If anything, things like axes and knives are the things that are more likely to be labeled as "non weapons" considering their other uses.
Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 10th 2023 at 8:16:07 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Man Outside Reality
Well, if it's not often a battle weapon, that arguably means that there's more incentive to keep this trope, to document the instances when it does happen.
And it's not like whips aren't multi-use as well, there's a reason people associate Indiana Jones with swinging through ancient ruins with his whip as well as attacking somebody with it.
Edited by MatthewWayne on Apr 10th 2023 at 5:18:04 AM
Trust no one.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I disagree; I don't see a point in simply documenting all the times a fictional character brings a whip into battle because it still lacks meaning. You have yet to identify any actual unique meaning to this trope beyond that you would personally find such a scenario intimidating, but that's hardly an inherent purpose behind the trope.
Edit: And "swinging on a whip" isn't exactly a common thing whips can do. Indiana Jones is Indiana Jones — but if you google whether or not "swinging on a whip" is a thing, you'll just get information that says it's not impossible, but also very impractical and unlikely.
Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 10th 2023 at 8:20:36 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Man Outside Reality
There's no meaning to Detachable Blades other than the fact that they detach, yet we still trope that. There's no meaning to Crystal Weapons or Glass Weapons other than the fact that they're made of those materials, and we still trope that. There's nothing else to Poisoned Weapons outside of the fact that they do Exactly What It Says on the Tin. So why exactly does using a whip need a "meaning"?
Trust no one.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Oh good, the "we still have other weapon tropes" fallacy. Make that the 4th time I've heard it.
Yes, the other weapon tropes exist. Yes, most of them lack meaning.
No, that does not mean we're giving them a free pass.
What it actually means is just that we haven't brought them in yet.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Man Outside Reality
If other unique weapon tropes exist for lacking "meaning", and so far only this one is up on the debate pad, then maybe finding meaning in using weapons isn't that big of an issue? I mean, it's not like the trope is being misused, offensive, or People Sit on Chairs.
Trust no one.
Just stoic wisdom.
PSOC is what the weapon tropes get brought to TRS under.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Listen, it's unfair as hell to suggest that if something hasn't been brought to TRS that it's not a big deal. The amount of tropers willing to put the time into making a wick check, waiting on the TRS queue, and doing cleanup work is astronomically small. We're a small group doing massive amounts of work, and we simply can't tackle every problematic trope at the same time. That doesn't mean the others won't eventually come to the TRS, too — it just means that these things aren't an easy process and we all have a lot of tropes we're trying to deal with.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
He/Him
Or maybe we haven't gotten to them yet.
The existence of other tropes should have no relevance on whether this is a tropable concept.
My troper wall
Right and we have cut/reworked similar weapons tropes already (An Axe To Grind, Simple Staff, etc). The others still exist because this process takes time. So if you want to appeal to precedence, that's the more recent, relevant, and overriding one.
Edited by amathieu13 on Apr 10th 2023 at 8:52:06 AM
(she/her)
I have brought three weapon tropes to the TRS (Sai Guy, Fighting With Chucks, and Dual Tonfas), I have Blade On A Stick queued for TRS and I am currently working on wick checking Drop The Hammer annd I have a sandbox for problematic weapon tropes in my signature. So, if it's slow going, me and others are still actively working on these tropes.
In any case, you can't really compare Poisoned Weapons and Glass Weapon to whip usage. These tropes have unique properties beyond their weapon usage. Again, I don't see using a whip any different than using any other weapon on its own and anything more specific than that should get its own trope if one doesn't exist yet,
Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 10th 2023 at 9:02:00 AM
Macron's notes
Seeing how Whip It Good was created 15 years before Lightning Lash and Vine Tentacles, it's no surprise a lot, a lot of old examples from WIG fits better in the latter two
There's also "Characters with Whip Arms" who could prolly go under Natural Weapon. Like Gudon and Twin Tail
Thinking it over I think Twiddler's suggestion of an "Implausible Whip Usage" trope would cover what I meant better since it's broader, including things like traversal and other odd whip tricks. But since that's far from what this trope intends I think that's better to take to TRS rather than retool it.
(she/her)
You mean TLP? Twiddler was just coming up with other whip related concepts that could get their own tropes. That wasn't an attempt to retool Whip It Good.
Macron's notes
Yeah, I meant TLP.
I don't see the character Zorro listed in any media format, but I suppose his whip use could be covered by "Weapon Characterization" or "Implausible Weapon Use." The early movies and even the television series used the whip as a rope to swing by.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Improbable Use of a Weapon.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
So did I. If I saw it in the past, I might have forgotten about it since the name is similar to Improbable Weapon User (though not confusingly so like Authority Equals Asskicking and Asskicking Equals Authority before they were renamed).
Professional Wick Checker
I don't care for this trope as I became on team "weapon tropes need meaning other than just characters using them" after I launched Rescue Equipment Attack.
Edit: Forgot to cast my vote which prolly won't matter bc this will need a crowner, but yeah ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
disambig.
Edited by selkies on Apr 11th 2023 at 10:33:52 AM
If we're disambiguating, Tail Slap is another good one. From its description:
Also, I agree with Twiddler that Implausible Whip Usage might be a worthy split.
I'd like to apologize for all this.
Crown Description:
Whip It Good is a trope about the use of whips as a weapon but that isn't tropable on its own. The description notes that whip owners tend to be domineering or seductive but that isn't reflected in most of the on page examples and wicks. A wick check determined that most of the examples that weren't ZCE or "whip as a weapon" were covered by other weapon/whip related tropes. What should be done with Whip It Good?
If something that isn't supposed to be a weapon is used as a weapon, that's Improbable Weapon User.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.