I was inspired by the TRS post I made
because there's still a mess of gushing and preemptive troping in the examples despite the definition of the trope being expanded. Like this for example:
- Author's Saving Throw:
- In the Shoshinkai demo, taking care of Bowser was too easy: all you had to do was swing him by the tail and throw him at one of the bombs. In the final product, this was only the first of three Bowser fights, with the next two becoming progressively more difficult.
- Once you make it to the top of Peach's castle, the back of it looks entirely unfinished. This was fixed in the DS remake where they covered it with a green hill.
I don't think the first example counts because that was prerelease. It's not like anyone other than the press had access to that version of the game. The second might count though.
Update: As of September 2022, per this TRS thread, examples should be moved from YMMV subpages to Trivia, and they require confirmation from Word of God and/or Word of Saint Paul regarding why the work was changed, so any on-page examples and wicks that don't fit the new restrictions must be removed. In-universe examples do not have this restriction. If the removal of examples on subpages renders the subpage too small, or if there are no valid examples left, Cut List the subpage, and, if there are any valid examples left, move them to the parent page (either the main page for Author's Saving Throw or a work's Trivia subpage).
If removing examples, consider whether they may fit Salvaged Story instead. For removals lacking creator conformation, there is an AST salvaging archive for sorting examples. Please put them there.
Edited by Tabs on Nov 19th 2022 at 11:31:32 AM
VampireBuddha
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Calendar enthusiast
#102: Nov 2nd 2022 at 1:50:17 PM
None of them are AST because that trope requires Word of God or Word of Saint Paul, which none of those entries provide. The ones you list as "valid" are better fits under Salvaged Story.
So it does. Yeah, they're Salvaged Story.
Ukrainian Red Cross
Wyldchyld
(Old as dirt)
#103: Nov 3rd 2022 at 11:54:45 AM
Are these AST or Salvaged Story? Note, despite the wording, both do have Word of God confirmation.
- Author's Saving Throw:
- Volume 5 was seen as the show's nadir, with many fandom complaints about how passive and location-bound the heroes were, the already-existing lack of focus on Ruby as a leader leaving her with reduced relevance during major story beats, and no exploration of the Mistral setting. CRWBY picked these complaints in the next volume, kicking off Ruby's development into the active leader of the fight against Salem and revisiting the Mistral underworld for Cinder's storyline.
- After Blake's Volume 7 haircut was criticised for poor texturing and looking unflattering in certain lighting, CRWBY responded by upgrading her hair texture to appear more natural. This improvement was also applied to Weiss.
Musician/Composer
#104: Nov 3rd 2022 at 12:50:41 PM
And to add to it, here's bdacosta2's revised version of the first example:
- Volume 5 was seen as the show's nadir for several reasons. The fandom's criticisms centered around the passivity of the heroes compared to the previous volume's journey-bound tone, the reduced relevance of main protagonist Ruby during major story beats, and lack of exploration of Mistral's exotic setting. CRWBY nipped these problems in the bud for the next volume by kicking off Ruby's development into an active leader in the fight against Salem and exploring the Mistral underworld via Cinder's storyline.
VampireBuddha
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Calendar enthusiast
#105: Nov 3rd 2022 at 1:00:18 PM
If you can work in the WOG confirmation, they're valid AST.
Ukrainian Red Cross
Wyldchyld
(Old as dirt)
#106: Nov 3rd 2022 at 4:40:14 PM
I just slipped "confirmed" into the entries as follows (using bdacosta2's rewrite):
- Volume 5 was seen as the show's nadir for several reasons. The fandom's criticisms centered around the passivity of the heroes compared to the previous volume's journey-bound tone, the reduced relevance of main protagonist Ruby during major story beats, and lack of exploration of Mistral's exotic setting. CRWBY confirmed they addressed these complaints for the next volume by kicking off Ruby's development into an active leader in the fight against Salem and exploring the Mistral underworld via Cinder's storyline.
- After Blake's Volume 7 haircut was criticised for poor texturing and looking unflattering in certain lighting, CRWBY confirmed that this led to them upgrading her hair texture to appear more natural, and upgrading Weiss's hair at the same time.
Does that work?
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 3rd 2022 at 4:42:01 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
VampireBuddha
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#107: Nov 4th 2022 at 1:03:15 PM
Looks good.
Ukrainian Red Cross
Ferot_Dreadnaught
Since: Mar, 2015
#108: Nov 6th 2022 at 1:45:03 PM
- Persona 5: The character of Goro Akechi and his subplot were considered decent in theory but poorly-handled in practice, with the game and its characters telling the player he felt kinship with Joker instead of showing it and having him awkwardly dump his backstory without prompting to make the player sympathize with him. The Updated Re-release Royal changed his Confidant from an automatic story one to a manual one, meaning the player needs to actively go out of their way to bond with him, and re-wrote the Confidant to give Akechi and Joker's bond more natural development and make the backstory drops less forced. While the climactic scenes with him are mostly the same as the original, these changes made them feel much more organic. The new third semester returns him to the party, but alleviated fears he would be Easily Forgiven by making him a Token Evil Teammate who the rest of the Phantom Thieves barely tolerate, while giving him a lot of hilarious Comedic Sociopathy.
Only "the third semester" seems to fit SS as an additional story that fixes the original as opposed to remaking/altering the original. Would Sandbox.Improved Second Attempt or Remade and Improved fit better? (Does Remade and Improved not apply as it's a re-release as opposed to remake?)
VampireBuddha
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Calendar enthusiast
#109: Nov 6th 2022 at 2:50:59 PM
Since it's a rerelease of the updated variety, I think it counts as Remade and Improved.
Ukrainian Red Cross
Ferot_Dreadnaught
Since: Mar, 2015
#110: Nov 12th 2022 at 1:23:37 PM
What to do with these from AuthorsSavingThrow.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic?
Examples
- In "The Last Roundup", beloved background pony Derpy Hooves is given spoken lines, giving rise to a back-and-forth fans have dubbed "Derpygate".
- A small group of parents protested this scene, finding it offensive (the name "Derpy" and the voice acting, which was a misunderstanding where the VA thought the character was male). The studio took the original episode off of iTunes and replaced it with one where Derpy's voice was changed and her name was not mentioned.
- In response to the creators removing the episode and changing the voice, the fandom revolted, so the creators would later include Derpy in "Rainbow Falls". She return for speakings roles starting in "Slice of Life", unnamed in them but named in the credits as Muffins, a less offensive Ascended Fanon name while allowing those inclined to keep using her old name. Sounds like AST but I looked and can't find creator citation.
- At the end of "Dragon Quest", Spike takes Peewee, a baby phoenix, from his parents and adopted him. Many fans complained about the kidnapping and the Broken Aesop because the same episode began with Spike complaining about not knowing where he comes from. In "Just for Sidekicks", it is revealed that Spike returned the phoenix to his parents (in a series of briefly-seen photos of him doing so.) That was also somewhat contested by people who felt the character was wasted, and so an even later episode had Peewee show up, now fully grown, and he and Spike still recognize and love each other. Best of both worlds! Might fit Salvaged Story, but the former was a seeming throwaway detail and not sure how directly the latter connects/addresses the original contentious elements.
- A lot of the fanbase wasn't happy with how Season 3 portrayed Spike as being quite incompetent (in "Spike at Your Service" he causes massive damage whenever he tries to help, and in "Just for Sidekicks" he screws up pet-sitting so badly that he ends up on a train in another country). As a result, the Season 4 episode "Power Ponies" is pretty much based on the premise that Spike is helpful and the rest of the cast don't view him as The Load. Suspect not Salvaged Story as doesn't directly acknowledge the S3 issues as the source of his issues here. That so?
- "One Bad Apple" got some criticism that Babs being bullied herself wasn't enough of an excuse for how big a jerk she was to the CMC. But in "Rarity Takes Manehattan" we get confirmation of just how much worse bullying can be in Manehattan, while keeping in tone to its In-Real-Life counterpart. Cut as doesn't directly address the original story.
- A number of fans were angry that Spike wasn't invited back to the Crystal Empire in "Games Ponies Play", even though he was the one who saved it. "Equestria Games" reveals that Spike is considered a hero throughout the entire kingdom. It also gives him a lot of appreciation, something that, according to the fans, almost every Spike-centered episode — including Equestria Girls — after the Season 3 Premiere seriously lacked. S3 was planned as a finale, but S4 was stated to follow up Twilight's arc nearly a year before and the first episode of S4 addressing that had it's script locked half a year before the S3 finale caused the issue. Suspect Twilight isn't SS as they to the opportunity to fix it before fan complaints. Not sure if other S3 issue were after the fact fixes or not.
- For those opposed to Twilight becoming an alicorn princess, a commonly cited argument was that it felt like the show was putting Twilight above her friends, which not only seemed like favoritism from the writers, but went against the show's defining theme of friendship. The revelation in "Twilight's Kingdom - Part 2" that Twilight's friends including Spike will apparently be ruling alongside her in her role as the Princess of Friendship addresses this.
- In addition, many fans felt that Twilight learned to fly too easily at the end of Season 3 (justified since it was originally meant to be the Series Finale). Season 4 starts off with Twilight struggling with her new wings. Suspect cut. See above.
- Many fans have complained that Discord's sudden Heel–Face Turn from "Keep Calm and Flutter On" was too rushed, heavy-handed, and sappy. So later episodes have him still being the gleeful and sarcastic Troll he's always been, and when Tirek talks him into turning evil again, he realizes how empty their partnership is compared to his friendship with Fluttershy, and comes crawling back to her after Tirek betrays him. "Discordant Harmony" gives Discord a very good reason for why he stays Reformed, but Not Tamed. See above. Suspect misuse as the fix stated in the first S4 episode which again was written before the complaints.
- "Slice of Life": Some fans were upset about Featherweight being a Karma Houdini in "Ponyville Confidential." Here he gets sprayed with ink, just like Diamond Tiara's punishment in that episode. Other than having the same job, doesn't directly reference prior issue so cut. Karma Houdini Warranty covers that.
- "Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?":
- For those who felt the Nightmare Forces from the comics devalued Luna's being The Atoner, this episode shows Tantabus as the literal embodiment of her guilt. Move to Improved Second Attempt.
- Fans have long wanted to see the God-Emperor princesses cut loose, but anytime something that would require the level of power we expect from those who control the sun and moon — and hear of them having used in the distant past — shows up, they end up suffering The Worf Effect, or never acting beyond exposition duty at all. Not today, as we truly get to see Luna take action, showing herself quite powerful though not without limits. One sequence was much like fans have discussed wishing had happened at times like "A Canterlot Wedding"; a role that lets the Princesses not seem so useless by holding down the fort in one way while still needing the Mane Six. In this case, Luna's mindlinking the entire city, which limits, but doesn't fully eliminate, her ability to act directly. Cut as doing what fans wanted as opposed to following up/fixing the original.
- Most of Spike's earlier focus episodes had received fan criticism for sticking Spike with the Conflict Ball or Idiot Ball to make the plots work. Similarly, most episodes also derived all their humor from the often disliked "Spikeabuse"note , with Jim Miller himself acknowledging it has long worn out its welcome with a lot of fans. "The Crystalling" and "Gauntlet of Fire" both bucked the trend and focused on Spike's efforts in helping solve the conflicts rather than making him the cause of the problem. Cited Creator Backlash, but not that the later works were fixes. That not enough for AST? If not cut as not dressing original story.
- From Season 3 onward, one of the main complaints of the show was about many a villain and bully being Easily Forgiven and pulling a Heel–Face Turn at the drop of a hat, peaking with Starlight Glimmer at the end of Season 5. During Season 6, recurring villains such as Garble, the Film Flam brothers, and Queen Chrysalis show up and don't get reformed. It's especially notable because the latter two examples actually do get offers of redemption, but refuse them. Cut as just doing X better.
- "All Bottled Up":
- The "magic = Imagination-Based Superpower" lesson Starlight gives Trixie seemingly justifies many Forgot About His Powers/Strong as They Need to Be moments in the series: Physical God or not, your power is useless without proper focus (which can be broken by preoccupations, the heat of the moment, etc.). Sounds like valid SS.
- Starlight's history of being Unintentionally Unsympathetic via amoral uses of magic on others is averted here: This time — her only target is herself (via Emotion Suppression so she can accomplish things without stress), and the other Ponies affected are clearly accidents. Afterward — Starlight fixes Bulk Biceps's peanut-cart that got smashed during the mayhem, and rejects Trixie's suggestion to just alter the Spa Ponies' memories. '''Think cut or Rescued from the Scrappy Heap as doesn't directly follow up original story.
- Starlight being a normal unicorn who possesses alicorn level magical abilities has been one of the main contributors to Starlight's Base-Breaking Character status. More importantly, people were questioning why there wasn't any given reason as to why she is that powerful to begin with? This episode alluding that the strength of her magic is more or less dependent on emotions (and the fact that Starlight is highly emotional) can be seen as an effort to appease these complaints. Merge with the episodes first sub-bullet and move to SS.
- One for Twilight Sparkle's doubts on Trixie being a good influence on Starlight during "No Second Prances" becomes pretty understandable and solid in this episode. Trixie shows her tendency to ignore the lessons she learns and kept bringing up the stuff that Starlight did before her Heel–Face Turn. We see Starlight grow angry and frustrated with her for the first time, and Twilight's initial hesitance with Trixie has become more justified in the eyes of the audience. Cut as doesn't acknowledge that episode in work and less than a year between the episodes means likely planned before complaints.
- The Wonderbolts' weren't exactly role models in "Rainbow Falls", "Rarity Investigates", and "Newbie Dash". In "Parental Glidance", they finally do act likable. They don't make fun of Rainbow or get mad at her for her parents' distruptive cheering, they help her out with her apology show to them, and Fleetfoot even tells Rainbow's dad that he raised an excellent flyer. Doesn't address original stories. Move to Rescused From The Scrappy Heap or cut.
- "Newbie Dash" fills in a bit of Fridge Logic regarding Rainbow Dash and the Wonderbolts. For all of the good that Rainbow Dash has done — both as a record-setter in the Wonderbolt Reserves, and a hero in her private life as the Element of Loyalty — why was she still constantly denied entry into the Wonderbolts proper? The opening of this episode addresses that with Spitfire saying she's wanted to make Rainbow an official Wonderbolt for quite a while, but there wasn't a spot for her because the Wonderbolts already had a full set of flyers. The moment there was an opening on the roster, Rainbow received an official invitation from Spitfire, which she immediately accepts. Sound like valid SS as it addresses why Rainbow wasn't made one sooner.
- Season 6 was criticized for marketing the concept of taking the cast all over Equestria only to do very little with it, as most episodes still took place in Ponyville and only a few episodes actually explored outside the town, with most of the ones that did only revisiting previously seen locations like Manehattan or the Crystal Empire. And even when they do explore Equestria, it's off-screen. For Season 7, the theme was announced to be focusing on family, and many feel that this time around the season's concept is sticking to delivering its promise. Several episodes in the season have focused on the relations between the Mane Cast and their siblings and parents, most notably finally giving viewers glimpses of both Rainbow Dash's and Applejack's parents. Cut. Just X better.
- Likely in response to how controversial the changeling's transformation in "To Where And Back Again" was, "Triple Threat" had Thorax state there was an entire rogue faction of changelings that refused to follow his lead and remained living as their former selves. Though "To Change A Changeling" ends up explaining that he since won them over, it happened off-screen and the idea that not all the changelings were on board with such a radical change and the possibility there are more of the old-school ones still out there was cathartic for the fans that despise the transformed changelings. It's also revealed that transformed changelings can freely change their appearance, so even a heroic changeling could still use the old design if they wanted to. '''Less than a year later means likely planned before complaints so cut.)
- Celestia finally getting some much needed love in episodes like "Celestial Advice" and "Horse Play". Cut as not fixing original stories.
- "Yakity-Sax": Early in the episode, Twilight initially plots to find ways to get Pinkie to stop playing without having to tell her. Applejack quickly points out that this is what caused the problems back in "Horse Play", relieving fans who were worried about the Mane 6 undergoing Aesop Amnesia again. Doesn't sound like it's directly addressing original storylines so cut.'
- For the last few seasons, Starlight's detractors have decried the writers for making the main characters either suffer the Worf Effect or hold the Idiot Ball, thus making her the most competent character in the room/the only one who can save the day. In "School Raze", Cozy Glow defeats Starlight off-screen and she remains out of commission for almost the entire Season 8 finale, giving the other characters a chance to shine. Cut as not fixing original storylines.'
Thoughts?
SoyValdo7
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Since: Sep, 2022
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I mainly fix indentation issues
#111: Nov 12th 2022 at 1:48:42 PM
I ask myself the same thing. There are others pages like this one, and I don't sure if we supposed to cut them or what. I guess you can move it to the trivia page for the moment.
Valdo
AlleyOop
Since: Oct, 2010
#112: Nov 12th 2022 at 3:52:56 PM
Anything you can't salvage, you can move to Alley Oop AST Archive for now until we figure what to do with it.
NAFEDUDE
Since: Sep, 2011
#113: Nov 13th 2022 at 4:20:51 AM
There was an edition to Salvaged Story for Sonic Frontiers, with a lot of it being removed because there were people who disagreed with the examples (in particular, Knuckles' characterization, though another trope was about Roger's acting.)
As a YMMV trope, isn't it inevitable people wouldn't disagree? Is it valid to cut those because it's not universally accepted?
SoyValdo7
I mainly fix indentation issues
from La tierra de lagos y volcanes
Since: Sep, 2022
Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#114: Nov 13th 2022 at 9:37:11 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Would you care to show us the edit? It will make this process easier.
NAFEDUDE
Since: Sep, 2011
#115: Nov 13th 2022 at 1:36:50 PM
Yeah, I was tired when I wrote that previous post. It's a pretty beefy edit so I'll just post the URL
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.SonicFrontiers#edit35018612
SoyValdo7
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from La tierra de lagos y volcanes
Since: Sep, 2022
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I mainly fix indentation issues
#116: Nov 13th 2022 at 3:47:14 PM
Ok, so the original example was deleted because "Salvaged Story is directly addressing the original contentious story not just changing/doing it better". In other words, Knuckles's original portrayed returns to the game without any In-Universe reason. I never play Sonic Frontiers so I don't sure about that, but it appears to be a normal Retcon to me.
Valdo
NAFEDUDE
Since: Sep, 2011
#117: Nov 13th 2022 at 8:51:54 PM
Yeah I can see the Knuckles example staying cut for that reason; it's more a general character writing shift vs. Tails explicitly mentioning the thing people didn't like.
Ferot_Dreadnaught
Since: Mar, 2015
#118: Nov 14th 2022 at 11:19:00 AM
Cut this from YMMV.Tyranny:
- Author's Saving Throw: The fact that the player character cannot remain loyal to Kyros in the ending was highly divisive. Eventually, Obsidian patched in dialogue options where your character expresses a wish to do so and an ending where you swear fealty to Kyros.
This sounds like Salvaged Story is a/the best fit. That so? (This seems a gray area on if it's gameplay or narrative followup.)
SoyValdo7
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I mainly fix indentation issues
#119: Nov 14th 2022 at 11:55:45 AM
Technically speaking nothing was changed to the original ending, the just simply add another one. I'm not sure that counts for Salvaged Story.
RandomTroper123
She / Her
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Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#120: Nov 14th 2022 at 5:30:26 PM
I don't think that counts as Salvaged Story, so you might want to take that to Trope Finder.
SoyValdo7
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Since: Sep, 2022
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I mainly fix indentation issues
#121: Nov 15th 2022 at 3:57:47 PM
The YMMV of The Mysterious Mr. Enter has some examples of Author's Saving Throw that need to be deleted, but I think these two may work:
- Author's Saving Throw:
- As a response to some of his more hated reviews (Rocket Monkeys, 12 oz. Mouse), Enter announced he'd go back and review said shows with a different perspective. Further still, his website has versions of his older reviews that fix the issues that plagued them originally. They also cut out the nastier insults that he was infamous for originally.
- In his look back at Rocket Power during his Nick-O-Rama series, he addressed a frequent criticism of his original review of the series, where he derided it as nothing but a 90s Cliché Storm that only existed to capitalize on the trends of the time and has aged poorly when in fact, Rocket Power premiered at the very tail end of the nineties and lived most of its life as an early 2000s show. Mr. Enter counters that while the decade of the 90s ended early in the show's run, the trends associated with the 90s that Rocket Power played on survived into the early 2000s.
What do you think?
Valdo
VampireBuddha
Calendar enthusiast
from Ireland
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Calendar enthusiast
#122: Nov 16th 2022 at 1:15:00 PM
Does this trope apply to opinion shows? Genuinely asking.
The second bullet point isn't an example in any case. Nothing actually changes, he just doubles down on his original assertion.
The first bullet point sounds like it's valid, since it's stuff done in response to criticism. But, you know, does this trope apply to opinion and review shows?
Ukrainian Red Cross
SoyValdo7
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from La tierra de lagos y volcanes
Since: Sep, 2022
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I mainly fix indentation issues
#123: Nov 16th 2022 at 1:45:41 PM
I don't really sure. But the nostalgia critic is cited as an example in the trope page (AuthorsSavingThrow.The Nostalgia Critic)
So maybe?
Valdo
Tabs
Since: Jan, 2001
#124: Nov 19th 2022 at 11:33:25 AM
Archive is now linked in the OP.
VampireBuddha
Calendar enthusiast
from Ireland
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Calendar enthusiast
#125: Nov 19th 2022 at 2:30:16 PM
Yeah, that's because we haven't gotten to it yet.
Total posts: 198
The Captain Carter one can be listed as a form of Character Rerailment.