The Broken Base cleanup thread discusses about examples in Broken Base, but this talks about examples in YMMV pages of works containing Base-Breaking Character, (despite being an Example Sectionectomy, this can still be seen in the YMMV pages of works) where the details on what is suitable is also vague.
Here is the criteria for Base-Breaking Character:
- A long-term, sustained conflict: Characters that were simply hated and loved, then had their interest evaporated away (both positive and negative) after a few months doesn't count. Characters in upcoming works also don't count.
- A vicious conflict: Factions that have little problem co-existing and doesn't mind about what the other faction likes or dislikes about the character doesn't count. If it's not particularly vicious and heated, then it would be cut or be listed as a Downplayed Trope.
- Two (or more) vocal, almost equally sized factions: A tiny Vocal Minority that doesn't shut up their pet peeve, whilst being outnumbered by more reasonable fans don't count. Nor does a Silent Majority who doesn't make a big deal with the other side count. If one of the hating factions is significantly bigger than the other, it would be classified as The Scrappy or an Ensemble Dark Horse.
- Little to no Middle ground: Scenarios where most of the fandom doesn't care about the character, don't count.
Base-Breaking Character is when half of the fandom likes a character, yet another equally sized half dislikes it. Now that happens, but the problem is, some entries aren't really contentious (thus not resulting in flame wars when someone says they "liked that character"). Also, several entries are one-sided towards the negative or the positive side describing that only side in detail, but then wrapping up with a single line saying "But the other half likes that character". A correct way would be describing it like "a split in the Fandom on who likes it or not", with details on both sides why they're liked and disliked.
Here's an example from YMMV.Undertale:
* Base-Breaking Character:
- Alphys. A lot of players find her character gimmick of constant messages and attempts to help more annoying than funny, especially on repeat playthroughs. And even though she has sympathetic reasons, the reveal that she's been experimenting on sick monsters to create the Amalgamates and manipulating the player to feel better about herself doesn't help, especially since she never directly apologizes for the latter.
While it may have annoyed players due to these reasons above, there has been a considerable amount of fanarts and comics or her, and not only that, the like-dislike situation hasn't been so contentious (compared to Sans, whom he's popular, now he sucks.)
edited 21st Feb '18 1:46:31 PM by AppleGates
Planeswalker
#77: May 15th 2018 at 3:45:32 PM
Lars I'd still leave there, because there's still a lot of people who don't want him around even if others are more positive about him. I have no idea why Ronaldo is there, he's a flat out Scrappy.
Oissu!
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#78: May 18th 2018 at 6:08:37 AM
I took a look at BaseBreakingCharacter/TotalDrama, and I want to burn the entire page. There are literally 24 entries, and even given that the series is a parody of Survivor which encourages a divisive fan base, that's way too many examples.
It does not help that there are many examples that discuss how character's perceptions have changed through the various seasons.
Among the examples, Courtney is reasonable to keep around; she's a Jerkass Woobie, and the fandom is divided between whether to treat her as a Woobie worthy of sympathy or a Jerkass who is an awful person. If somebody wants to make an argument in favor of other characters, I won't disagree.
Anddrix
Since: Oct, 2014
#79: May 21st 2018 at 10:51:52 AM
Bringing up this example from The Lovely Bones:
- Base-Breaking Character: Grandma Lynn has detractors who feel she provides unnecessary comic relief in a story where a teenage girl is murdered, not to mention the fact that we never see her mourning Susie. Others however find her Actually Pretty Funny, due to Susan Sarandon's Large Ham performance - and in any case she doesn't overshadow the main cast.
Anddrix
Since: Oct, 2014
#80: Jun 2nd 2018 at 5:22:29 PM
So...it's been about 2 weeks, any chance someone could take a look at the examples I brought up above ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
.
chasemaddigan
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#81: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:51:35 PM
I'm not familiar with the work, so I'm not sure how the response has been to her. I think the last bit should be chopped off though. The debate seems to be whether or not Lynn was funny and if her humor fit in with the tone of the film, not about if she overshadows the main cast.
On an unrelated note, I found another Base-Breaking Character subpage, this time for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. The thing is, almost every single one of the main cast is listed and reading through them, I'm pretty sure most of them were written shortly after specific episodes and don't reflect the fandom's current opinions on them. Some of them are even listed as under Ensemble Dark Horse or Rescued from the Scrappy Heap on the show's YMMV page.
Here's the full list:
Every member of the cast aside from the mostly well-liked May could fall under Fan Favorite or The Scrappy, with seemingly every single person having a different opinion on the matter.
- Even May herself fell under this from season 2 onward due to her constant hypocrisy and overly pessimistic viewpoint. While at the same time, her backstory of having to kill a young girl and the event heavily traumatizing her and tragic relationships - namely her early trust issues with Coulson (not helped by her causing most of it) and that of her ex-husband (who turns out to become a killer inhuman, not unlike the girl she had to put down) - make her a Jerkass Woobie at worst. However, she's broken out of most of it by season 4.
- Coulson, in-spite of being the only reason the show was made, has became this. For some he's the same dork people loved from the movies who now gets to be fleshed out with an interesting character arc exploring the Myth Arc of T.A.H.I.T.I. and the Kree map, and is a likeable, Good Is Not Soft Team Dad. Others however found him an over-hyped Static Character and didn't understand the need for a spin-off, and have came to find him boring compared to the rest of the cast of the show, and finding his leadership flawed and a case of Protagonist-Centered Morality. It doesn't help that it is mostly believed that he has Plot Armor that prevents him from being killed off until he's reunited with the Avengers or risk a case of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot, making him more safe from potential death compared to the rest of the cast.
- Out of all the main characters, it seems Ward became the biggest example (at least, since Skye got Rescued from the Scrappy Heap), thanks to his betrayal of the team by revealing his allegiance to HYDRA. There's a massive split between fans who want to see him redeem himself and those who want him to go away/get killed/other bad stuff, with some of it getting pretty vitriolic. It hurts that he's a show-original character whose skills are talked up as being as big as Romanoff and Barton, meaning that some love him for his badassery while others resent him for it. In addition to that, there is also the attempted dismantlement of his Freudian Excuse in Season 3. While some people think it helped to really establish him as a villain, others think of it as a clumsy attempt to take all sympathy the audience might have had for him away, as well as much of the character's depth. There is also a serious schism about the question wheter his past was ever an excuse for his actions or not.
- Skye/Daisy: Daisy has, since the beginning of the show, had a fair share of haters and defenders, initially due to the perceived over-importance given to her and unrealistic nature of her recruitment into SHIELD (the latter case a matter of Reality Is Unrealistic); this was because, though the shows' lead character, initially it was hyped as 'Coulson's show plus friends' (he instead plays a Giles-esque mentor role and serves as the secondary main character in the narrative, though tends to be centre in group posters) and so didn't expect her to be so important, leading to accusations of her being shilled (as argued at the time, she was no more shilled than any other character). Later, as she went through heavy Character Development, many fans embraced her as a prominent Action Girl and one of the few women-of-colour leads in a superhero work, while others complained about her being changed too much and becoming unrecognisable.
- By Season 3 and 4, though, some segments of fans took a strong dislike to her due to her occasional self-righteousness (which she is called on) and her reaction to the events of the end of Season 3, while others have argued how unfair this reaction is given just how much she actually went through (which more than justifies her wanting to stay away from everyone and take down the Watchdogs without having the Sokovia Accords interfere), and how much her supposedly horribly selfish actions actually pale when compared to other characters, particularly Captain America and Barry Allen (who have both done the exact things she's done, and worse, without being held at fault over them).
- Season 5's second arc doubles this, as after she is operated on by Fitz under the partial influence of his alter ego "The Doctor" to reactivate her powers, fans became split between those who think she's became unreasonably harsh and Took a Level in Jerkass in response, and those who find this view entirely unfair given what Fitz did to her. At the same time, Daisy sees Fitz as guilty of Cold-Blooded Torture and considers it as him crossing the Moral Event Horizon by ensuring the Earth-Shattering Kaboom that she is prophesied to cause.
- Simmons, and how much sympathy viewers think that she deserves in Season Two: She's either suffering just as much as Fitz, in her own way, and was forced to make a brutal decision because she believed she was hurting him and knew he'd be worse in the long-run if she stayed; or she's just incredibly selfish for leaving Fitz when he needed her the most, especially since he endangered himself to stand by her through her own illness and later nearly died saving her life. It got worse with her developing Fantastic Racism towards superpowers after Trip's death, with people either claiming that she hates anyone not human or pointing that she has not had a pleasant history with xenobiology and is reacting out of fear and concern.
- Fitz, starting in Season 2 and becoming prominent again in Season 5. A lot of fans adore him from the beginning for being one of the more relatable characters and for all the horrible traumas he goes through; this includes taking his side during first his anger at Jemma for leaving him and later him operating on Daisy to remove the Kree's Restraining Bolt and reactivate her powers with the aim of saving the world. Others however have found him difficult to like because of his tendency to talk down to others, and feel he uses his traumas to excuse being a jerk to others. Season 5 only intensified this, as noted above with Daisy, as fans became split between siding with Fitz's contention that he did what he had to do to save the world from destruction, or with Daisy's contention that Fitz went over the Moral Event Horizon by torturing her and ensuring the prophesied Earth-Shattering Kaboom at her hands.
- Mack and Bobbi and their connection to "real" S.H.I.E.L.D.; some feel they have a point about Coulson and his secret keeping, and look forward to seeing them inevitably siding with Coulson, while others consider them as bad as Ward and instead look forward to them being killed/beaten. Mack also gets some hate for his Fantastic Racism against aliens (though given why isn't too surprising, and he's not any worse than the rest of the team) while Bobbi has it for being 'emotionally abusive' towards Hunter (it's generally more a mutually destructive relationship with personal and professional conflict rather than 'abuse').
- Hunter, particularly in Season 3. When introduced he was well-liked for being a snarky British badass and getting quite a bit of development rather quickly, though he had some haters due to being an obvious stand-in for Hawkeye in concerns to his relationship with Mockingbird, but was overall well-liked due to his loyalty to Coulson and surprising friendship with most of the team. In Season 3 though, he Took a Level in Dumbass and in Jerk Ass, nearly arms HYDRA with a large arsenal and nearly gets Andrew killed, encourages Fitz to leave an innocent man to die and vents his frustrations during a mission with Mack and Daisy, acting as The Load the whole time. Now, he's a lot harder to like.
- A minor villain from early Season 1, Lorelei. Some liked her for her looks, cunning, and being surprisingly tough and a good example of Adaptational Badassnote , while others really didn't like her because her actions (including being an unapologetic rapist) caused the show to invoke certain double standards.
- It doesn't help that, after the release of Jessica Jones (2015), she is seen as a much more inferior Kilgrave. She lacks any Freudian Excuse whatsoever (regardless of how little Kilgrave's did to justify his actions), isn't nearly as enthralling, and her actions and general motives come off as even more petty. And this is compared to a man who remorselessly killed and/or ruined the lives of innocent people all for a single woman he was obsessed with.
- Eric Koenig and his brothers. Some found them funny due to their neurotic, Adorkable tendencies, others found them annoying for the same reasons, leading to a split between those who are glad to have Billy and Sam to replace Eric, and those who are annoyed that they have to put up with more of him/them. A lot of it comes down to how much one likes Patton Oswalt.
- Jiaying, after it's revealed that she's still alive in the present. Some consider this to be an intriguing plot twist that allows Skye to form a relationship with her mother we'd otherwise never have seen. Others think it's an Ass Pull that wrecks her husband's arc in the first half of the season, and that the role she fills post-resurrection could have easily been filled by Gordon or Lincoln. There are also some who think the twist itself was reasonably well foreshadowed, but still feel her tale was more tragic when it ended in her death. Then there's a split on the actual character, as some see her as a Reasonable Authority Figure leader for the Inhumans who's chief concern is keeping them safe, while others see her as just as bad or possibly even worse than her husband, as by her own admission she was once as ruthless as he was in their search to find Skye, and her willingness in "The Frenemy Of My Enemy" to potentially invoke Cal's wrath upon innocents because it's less inconvenient for her than keeping him in Afterlife shows she hasn't changed as much as she thinks. When this was revealed to be intentional foreshadowing regarding her true nature and status as big bad of season 2, the camps transformed into one group who felt it was the only way for things to go without making her a Designated Hero, another who felt she was forced to Jump Off The Slippery Slope to take the moral ambiguity out of the S.H.I.E.L.D. vs. Inhumans conflict, and a smaller third group who still believes that she did nothing wrong.
- Lincoln. He's got a fair share of detractors who felt he only served as a boring, plain unneeded love interest for Daisy, earning him scorn from non-shippers and those who shipped Daisy with others, as well as those who just didn't see the point in adding another pretty white guy instead of promoting more popular characters like Deathlok to the main cast. On the other hand, Lincoln has his defenders, from both those who liked his chemistry with Daisy and those who felt his backstory of dealing with depression and alcoholism made him unique compared to the rest of the cast, who either have mundane or fantastical dark backstories. As such, for some, his death is a huge Tear Jerker that's on-par with big moments from the movies, or its a rather deriviative scene that only serves to inflate the importance of his character one last time.
- Deke. For some, he's an entertaining character for being a Lovable Rogue who grew up in a harsh world with very grey morality as the norm, and thus his questionable actions are justified and he's appreciated for still being semi-heroic despite that. He also gains fans after they return to the present day, due to his comical and utterly joyful reaction to the modern world which brings back a lot of the funnier moments the show has rarely had since the first season. Conversely, many immediately disliked him for how he betrayed and sold Daisy to Kree slavers, find his Refusal of the Call attitude to greatly undermine his more heroic moments when compared to the more heroic Lighthouse characters like Tess and Flint, and find him more annoying than anything. Not helped is that he's given a lot of Ship Tease with Daisy, despite the aforementioned selling-to-slavery thing, with some finding him unneeded as a love interest at best (like Lincoln before him), or even just feel he's a weaker option compared to the more well-liked Robbie Reyes, while others do genuinely enjoy their chemistry and can forgive their early antagonism for it.
WhirlRX
Since: Jan, 2015
#82: Jun 5th 2018 at 6:53:52 PM
I found this under Base-Breaking Character in YMMV.High School DXD.
- Volume 10 and Highschool Dx D Hero Episode 8 had a lot of controversy from a few fans. There are one side who sympathy with Issei and are on his side. And think that Rias is selfish, self-centred and a spoiled brat for not understanding his feeling. Some people think that Rias, Asia, Kiba, Akeno, Xenovia, Irina, Koneko, and Gasper all were harsh against him and come off as insensitive jerks and ungrateful bastards after Issei help all of them with their problems, and traumas. While another side with Rias and the Occult Research Club. Others think that Issei was a complete dense idiot for not realizing that Rias and the other girls love him and come across as an insensitive jerk for hurting Rias feeling.
The problem I'm facing is that the events happen in the light novel years ago but just recently got animated. So I don't know if the "wait until the season finish and a couple months pass" should be applied.
#83: Jun 5th 2018 at 7:09:47 PM
I'm kinda inclined to think that whenever an entry lists the entire cast, the entire entry should be cut. Some of them probably are legitimately divisive beyond the "different people have different opinions" level, but in cases like this I feel like the burden of proof should lie with people wanting to add entries.
HighCrate
Since: Mar, 2015
#84: Jun 6th 2018 at 6:06:45 AM
Seconded.
Silverblade2
Since: Jan, 2013
#85: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:39:15 AM
I removed from YMMV.Devil May Cry 5
- Base Breaker: General consensus over the new female character Nico are mixed, mainly for her quirky personality, cowgirl character design, and her role in the game. Some have likened her for having her own Badass moments and a genius sidekick for Nero. Other have disliked her for being a far cry to the established action girls like Trish and Lady.
The trailer dropped less than 24 hours ago.
WhirlRX
Since: Jan, 2015
#86: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:24:36 PM
Remove.
#87: Jun 18th 2018 at 2:51:32 AM
So I finally decided to get around to cleaning up BaseBreakingCharacter.Steven Universe, and found these added to the page (Rose's entry has major spoilers).
- While Pearl's still somewhat divisive, her base-breaking status has been gradually dying down since Season 3, particularly after "Mr. Greg", where she had a particularly heartbreaking song and resolved to move on from Rose. It also helps that the show had since been emphasizing her more sympathetic traits.
- Rose Quartz's base breaking nature only seemed to grow as the show went on, until finally shattering in season 5. Initially introduced as an All-Loving Hero, and basically the personification of all that was good and gentle, each revelation on her character when she was alive served to peel back the layers and humanize her. While she was deeply warm and loving, she was also Innocently Insensitive, had difficulty seeing humans as something other than a cute novelty. And despite all her good intentions, she could be quite selfish.
- Then season 3 ended with the revelation that she shattered Pink Diamond. Some criticized her for being a hypocrite and imprisoning Bismuth without telling any of the other Crystal Gems for wanting the same thing. Others believed that it was warranted and that it was the only way for Earth to be truly free of Pink Diamond.
- All these reflections on Rose were turned Up To Eleven following A Single Pale Rose. Namely, Rose was Pink Diamond, and she staged her own shattering with Pearl with the perception that doing so would turn the Earth over to the Crystal Gems because the other Diamonds didn't seem to care about Earth. And that she made Pearl promise to never tell another being about the truth. Many fans felt that this decision was a cowardly and immature solution and that Pink should have spoken up and confronted the other Diamonds directly. But more importantly, this, more than any other revelation, meant that Rose was responsible for atrocities, war crimes, and Gem deaths over what could be seen as a problem that could've been handled a different way. In the end, this revelation only emphasized the divide between fans on whether Rose was a bad/cowardly being with no sense of right beyond her own desires, a good being who made some bad decisions, or something along that spectrum. Many have also noted that there's now a ton of pressure on whether the show will properly acknowledge any of this, or try to continue to play her as a hero, before they can start considering what they really think about it.
- Then season 3 ended with the revelation that she shattered Pink Diamond. Some criticized her for being a hypocrite and imprisoning Bismuth without telling any of the other Crystal Gems for wanting the same thing. Others believed that it was warranted and that it was the only way for Earth to be truly free of Pink Diamond.
- Lapis Lazuli seems to become more divisive the more screen time and Character Development she receives. Initially a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds who was less a villain than someone trapped and misunderstood, later episodes introduced elements of her character that weren't so morally clear-cut. In particular, there's Lapis's treatment of Jasper while fused as Malachite; her admission in "Alone at Sea" that she enjoyed holding power over another Gem caused some viewers to lose sympathy for her. Less drastically, her initial hostility towards Peridot (especially in "Barn Mates") angered fans who felt she was being mean for the sake of being mean in the face of Peridot's attempts at reconciliation (even though Peridot had previously captured and interrogated her for months at a time). Her decision to flee Earth in fear of a Diamond attack in "Raising the Barn," and later abandoning Steven on the Moon in "Can't Go Back," cemented these fans' dislike of the character, branding her as selfish or cowardly. On the other hand, Lapis's struggles with past traumas, trust issues and implied mental illness makes other viewers sympathize with her, if not necessarily excusing her worst actions.
The third bullet on Rose's entry is commented out on the page because it contains divisiveness stirred from "A Single Pale Rose", an episode that aired about a month ago. Lapis' entry also contains divisiveness stirred from "Can't Go Back", an episode that also aired about a month ago.
I'm going to continue with the cleanup I originally planned, but I was wondering how to deal with Rose's and and Lapis' entries, especially the former's commented out third bullet.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
#88: Jun 18th 2018 at 10:36:23 AM
Commenting things out should be temporary, when one is not certain whether or not it qualifies. Leaving in this commented out entry is the same as saying "This is a valid example, uncomment it in 6 months".
Since it's NOT valid yet, it should just be cut, not commented out. Maybe there will be even more revelations later on that will make the controversy die down. If it's kept, there's a strong chance that someone will come by in 6 months and uncomment it regardless of whether or not it's still divisive.
#89: Jun 19th 2018 at 7:42:14 AM
Hmm, alright. I'll remove the bullet and add a commented out note not to add it back later. What about the rest of her entry?
Planeswalker
#90: Jun 21st 2018 at 8:30:14 AM
Lapis was already a base breaking character, that episode just made it worse. If possible maybe remove the part of that writeup that refers to that episode and write a note that we need to wait six months before adding content from those episodes. That should cover the Rose Quartz stuff too.
Oissu!
Anddrix
Since: Oct, 2014
#91: Jul 1st 2018 at 1:17:57 PM
Bringing up these examples from Fantastic Four (2005):
- Base-Breaking Character:
- The Human Torch: funny or annoying? For the latter, is it because Chris Evans did a good or bad job at acting for making him come off that way?
- Ditto for Doctor Doom. Some like how he's been reimagined as a Corrupt Corporate Executive, feeling that this is a good update of the character. Others disliked this change, claiming that it was unnecessary and turned Doom into a Captain Ersatz of Norman Osborn rather than well, Doctor Doom.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#92: Jul 1st 2018 at 3:32:32 PM
Bringing these up from Animal Crossing:
- "Both the "Smug" and "Uchi" personalities get this in New Leaf. Some find them both to be great new additions to the series, while some find the "Smug" villagers to be obnoxious and/or creepy. Others find the "Uchi" villagers to be annoying and/or ugly."
- "All villagers are potentially this, due to their personalities and appearances. However, out of all of the current villagers, Pietro is easily one of the most polarizing in the series, due to his clown-like appearance. Half of the fans love him and find his design charming, while the other half hates him due to the negative connotations surrounding clowns. It does not help that he's a Smug villager either."
Shall I scorch them?
IPP Wick Check created.
#93: Jul 2nd 2018 at 5:09:40 PM
From the American Dad! YMMV page, I have noticed some contradictory entries.
Steve is listed as both a Base-Breaking Character and The Scrappy in these two entries:
- Base-Breaking Character: You'll either find Steve an Adorkable nerd who idolizes his father or an unsympathetic pervert and inconsiderate brat (in later seasons anyway).
- The Scrappy: Steve fell victim to this around the time of the final FOX season/beginning of the TBS era when the audience started getting tired of his regular Did Not Get the Girl gag and "Well Done, Son" Guy plots as well as going through Flanderization by becoming a completely bratty pervert.
Another is Debbie Hyman. She is listed as both and Ensemble Dark Horse but is also listed as The Scrappy.
- Ensemble Dark Horse: Debbie Hyman (for those who don't consider her a Scrappy).
- The Scrappy: Debbie Hyman. She was originally pretty popular for being a quirky goth and very different from all the love interests Steve has ever had. The problem was, every episode about her after her introduction was them repeatedly breaking up for whatever reason. Coupled with her miniscule development as well as being used primarily for the sake of jokes about her weight, she became a source of annoyance with many.
And Roger..... Roger is all over the place.
- Base-Breaking Character: Roger (and Klaus to a lesser extent) is either hilarious or annoying. His Flanderization and oversaturation in later seasons don't do him much favors.
- Broken Base: The on-going debate within recent years of whether or not Roger should be considered a Hate Sink or an outright Scrappy. Some fans point out that episodes like "Ricky Spanish" clearly puts him on the former where we're supposed to hate him. While others say that he should be classified as the latter due to his psychopathic behavior in latter seasons being Flanderized to the point where it can no longer be considered funny, his oversaturation over characters like Hayley & Klaus plus never receiving any kind of development thanks to Freudian Excuse of his species needing to let out their bitchiness or else they'll die.
- Seasonal Rot: While the 2012-13 season was seen as a slight improvement over the previous, what makes this season stick out to warrant its own entry was how many agreed that this was the season where Roger was Flanderized to the point where his psychopathic behavior could no longer be considered funny thus entering him into Scrappydom. The two episodes that most people point to for why they feel this way are "Love A.D. Style" & "Naked to the Limit, One More Time".
captainpat
Since: Sep, 2010
#94: Jul 3rd 2018 at 5:22:03 AM
From One-Punch Man
- Saitama himself. There's people who don't like him because they think of him as a plain-jane cookie-cutter "shonen" manga character and his (and thus the plot's) central Running Gag to be uninteresting to the point of Hype Backlash (especially because more militant fans of the series (and Trolls) have pretty much shoved it down people's throats in every possible way, especially by shoehorning it in Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny discussions), while others see him as a very interesting Reconstruction (or at least Decon-Recon Switch) of a "shonen" manga character.
This is the main character and ranks pretty high on the series popular polls.
Side note. A lot of these entries that spend more time listing off reasons why people hate the character than why they like them come across as stealth complaining to me.
No, the other one.
#95: Jul 3rd 2018 at 1:02:51 PM
First two sound like Base-Breaking Character. Roger I'm not sure. Sounds more like The Scrappy from that.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
#96: Jul 3rd 2018 at 8:44:48 PM
Also, the way his detractors are described makes it sound like they're not actually fans of the series. The "base" in Base-Breaking Character stands for "fanbase" so if most of the show's fans like or tolerate him, and those who hate him don't even watch the show, it doesn't count.
captainpat
Since: Sep, 2010
#97: Jul 5th 2018 at 7:54:45 AM
From BaseBreakingCharacter.Persona 5
- Ryuji is both well-liked and hated for a variety of reasons. People who like him bring up his loyalty, chemistry with Ann, friendship with the protagonist, mindfulness towards his fellow teammates in general (not named Morgana), and just how plain over-the-top he is; while those who dislike him point to him as an Idiot Hero with No Indoor Voice who's constantly putting the Phantom Thieves' identities at risk of exposure because of how loud he is. His relationship with Morgana is also a divisive issue here, as the two of them spend much of their time insulting each other (and Morgana instigates this just as much if not more so than Ryuji does, which can make people more sympathetic towards Ryuji instead) but since it's Ryuji's put-downs that drive Morgana to temporarily leave the group at the start of the Okumura arc he often gets the lion's share of the blame for it. Those that like him further point out his negative qualities are a major part of his character development
, Morgana later acknowledges that because the falling out happened he's the only one of the two of them to actually apologize for their behaviors towards the other, and he ultimately becomes a better person by the game's conclusion.
- Ann, mainly outside of combat, her diminished role post Kamoshida's defeat and her airheadedness in her Confidant link have led some players to consider her a boring, passive character, while others still like her for being a Nice Girl who provides plenty of sweet and/or comedic moments. Her being the game's Ms. Fanservice, and the developers' decision to follow up Kamoshida's palace with Madarame's have also drawn considerable debate — some are uncomfortable with her treatment as a Lust Object and Yusuke's behavior towards her once he asks her to model for him (explicitly blackmailing her to pose nude for their second session when she made it clear she wasn't comfortable with the idea, and for a painting that would be made public possibly worldwide on top of that), seeing it as Atlus trying to have their cake and eat it too at the cost of her storyline as a sexual abuse survivor, while others are more forgiving of it since the game does give her more agency over herself after the first two dungeons.
- This exploded once the official art book revealed that the thieves (and by extension, Ann) do not choose their costumes (they are instead chosen by a "higher power", something that is never acknowledged in the games). Ann was also revealed to be very vocally uncomfortable about it in the game, simply because the director thought it would be "cute", much to the disgust of many Ann fans.
- Makoto. She placed third in a Japanese popularity poll so naturally she has a very large fanbase that considers her "the best girl" as a badass, intelligent girl who's also well-rounded, with a number of comical and serious character flaws. Her detractors, which could be a result of how overwhelmingly popular she is, consider her comparatively bland next to her sister Sae and think Hifumi (a popular shogi player) would have been a better fit for the role of team strategist and may have been intended for it back when she was slated to be playable. Her Confidant is often considered one of the weakest in the game, with the naivete she displays during it can be grating for some, while others either consider it endearing or a realistic consequence of her focus on her academic career for most of her life. Another point of contention is that her Confidant is mostly focused on helping her classmate Eiko, while Makoto's own development takes a back seat, and it's always presented in contrast to Eiko, rather than on its own merits. Not helping matters is the fact that some fans tend to get a bit too pushy about her and that Makoto also gets a lot of focus, dialogue and screen time in the main story line compared the other party members. Some fans feel it's justified as she's one of the more intelligent members of the group and the fact she's related to Sae; others point out that it means she overshadows the rest of the group, even in scenes where she isn't needed (like how she continued to play the 'navigator' role even after Futaba joins), and that she's the only person to get an 'ultimate weapon' that grants 10 + to all of her stats, leading to some accusations of dev favoritism.
- Morgana. People either love him for his Badass Adorable status, his usefulness in battle as the game's primary healer, and his Funny Moments with the Treasure, as well as all of his snarky commentary when exploring Tokyo. Others hate him due to his tendency to dictate the Protagonist's free time, telling him he can't do something for sketchy reasons. In-character, there's Morgana constantly berating Ryuji for every mistake he makes, and then when Ryuji finally decided to fight back, Morgana left the team, making it seem like Mona could dish it out, but not take it. While Morgana was feeling useless at the time, these fans felt that he grossly overreacted. His detractors also point out his love of "Lady Ann" as many feel that it doesn't add anything to his character and just feels like a tacky comedic gimmick that gets in the way of the more interesting aspects of his character.
- Haru gets this as a result of being introduced very late into the game. Some feel that because of not having a lot of screen time compared to the other Phantom Thieves she comes off as a boring character that doesn't contribute much narrative-wise. Her fans however love her simply for her kindhearted personality and that in spite of her limited screen time she still has a strong presence in the story and her Confidant is one of the stronger ones among the Phantom Thieves. There's also the debate over whether or not her father's death actually gave her ample character development or just was completely swept under the rug.
These are most the main characters whom from least from my observations don't have any huge hatedoms (the Makoto entry even mentions how popular she is), and also all of these entries are extremely complainy.
Edited by captainpat on Jul 5th 2018 at 7:54:35 AM
Silverblade2
Since: Jan, 2013
#98: Jul 5th 2018 at 9:44:00 AM
I found another real life example on YMMV.Nsync
- Base Breaker: Justin, especially after his solo career took off. On one side, Justin fans who love his solo stuff. On the other side, NSYNC fans who blame him for breaking up the group. It really doesn't help that he sometimes mocks and puts down his NSYNC days, which in turn reflects badly on the other guys.
- He was subject to this even before he went solo. He was either young and cute, if a little overeager, or he was an arrogant, try hard, attention whore. A good portion of the fandom believe he Took a Level in Jerkass once it was evident that his solo career wasn't ever going to slow down. His statements regarding the band, his solo career, (especially after the Super Bowl incident with Janet Jackson) and seeming reluctance to acknowledge the guys after the breakup have only further fragmented the fandom.
Should we add Base-Breaking Character to No Real Life Examples, Please! to avoid such examples?
Edited by Silverblade2 on Jul 5th 2018 at 6:46:01 PM
No, the other one.
#99: Jul 5th 2018 at 12:42:40 PM
That's clearly about the person himself, so scrub that.
Check out my fanfiction!
#100: Jul 7th 2018 at 8:33:57 PM
So, with the Steven Universe entries, specifically Lapis, we just got the antepentulitimate episode of the season, and in it Lapis came back and officially joined the team. So far the response to this has been overwhelmingly positive from what I've seen while answering some of the issues people had with the character, but there are indeed some who still dislike it. Should the events of Reunited be added to Lapis's entry, or should the 6 month wait time still be followed?note
Edited by RebelFalcon on Jul 7th 2018 at 11:36:16 AM
Vegeta: I'm back bitches!
Total posts: 1,488
FFS. Deleting the Mario Tennis entry.