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YMMV / Robin

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  • Alas, Poor Scrappy:
    • No matter how much you hated Damian, his death was a real Tear Jerker
    • The same can be said for Jason Todd in A Death in the Family.
    • Even people who despise Stephanie Brown tend to hate the way she was killed off in "War Games".
  • Angst? What Angst?: Go ahead. Try to find a comic with Tim Drake making a big deal over Stephanie Brown's "death". Her passing wound up being mostly overshadowed in his book by his father's passing in Identity Crisis.
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  • Author's Saving Throw: Tim's New 52 origin where Tim Drake isn't his real name and he was never Robin? Gone. Detective Comics #965 spends the first few pages basically establishing that the pre-Flashpoint origin is canon again and that Tim was Robin.
  • Base-Breaking Character:
    • The Robin identity in general. Some people think the very idea of a brightly-colored minor running around and fighting criminals is ridiculous. Others consider it a Necessary Weasel to keep Batman from getting too grimdark. Others invoke the Grandfather Clause and say that whether it makes sense or not, it's part of comics tradition and too late to change.
    • Jason Todd. Either he's a Woobie who's just misunderstood, or a murderous asshole who taints the Robin legacy. His inconsistent characterisation since his resurrection doesn't help matters, varying from "jokey anti-hero" to "bitter anti-villain" to "killer psychopath", often from the same writer.
      • What people want Jason to be is even divisive. Some prefer him to be an villainous reflection of Bruce and Dick, who is an enemy of the Bat-family and Bruce's great failure, while others prefer his anti-hero version and like him being integrated back into the Bat-family.
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    • Damian Wayne. Either he's a Woobie who just needs someone to believe in him (hello there, Dick) and has exhibited tremendous Character Development over the course of several books, or a horribly arrogant, obnoxious, violent and cruel person who only gets to be Robin because of his last name.
  • Broken Base:
    • For Tim's Red Robin look: Condom head vs. Swan queen. Some feel the condom head look works because it takes inspiration from Batman and is just more practical, which reflects Tim's character. The swan queen look is liked for having some practicality in the cape. While nobody will say either is an amazing costume design, which one is better is up in the air.
    • Stephanie's Stuffed in the Fridge treatment was (and still remains) controversial and many fans also take umbridge at her status as a former Robin being swept under the rug in the New 52. Others feel that her tenure as Robin was short-lived and relatively unimportant to her character and the Bat-mythos.
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    • Fans who prefer one Robin over another get pretty furious whenever their preferred Robin is shown to be weaker than another. In online communities, Jason Todd fans launched multiple hate campaigns against Batman writer Tom King when he had Damian easily defeating Jason in Robin War.
  • Complete Monster: Vitoria, aka Wanderer, from Red Robin, was born in Brazil. As a young girl, she was abused by the men in the village. One day, while running from the men, she fell into a pit of venomous spiders. However, instead of dying, she gained the power to kill with a touch. After killing the men—which was justified—Vitoria murdered her mother, then went on a killing spree across South America, slaughtering people at random. When she grew bored with this, she recruited a band of like-minded psychos, which she names the Council of Spiders, and attacked the League of Assassins for sport, butchering dozens of its members in the process, and caring not a whit for any innocents who got in the way. Buried Alive after her plot failed, Vitoria killed the man who rescued her, before announcing her intention of moving on from targeting assassins to targeting heroes.
  • Creator's Pet: The amount of doting Scott Lobdell does for Jason Todd at the expense of characterization and plot has turned most people away from Red Hood and the Outlaws (and by extension its sequel Red Hood/Arsenal). It often shows up in the form of characters created for the sole purpose of Character Shilling, or by downplaying other characters to make Jason look good. Even many fans that like Jason are a bit put off, partially because of his lack of regard for Show, Don't Tell, partially because they find many of the scenarios touched upon when writing Jason (such as Jason moving on from his past and healing from his trauma) to be an example of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot and partly because of some Unfortunate Implications that has cropped up throughout his writing. Not helped by the fact that Lobdell's admitted in an interview that he cares more about action beats than character arcs or the perception that he views Jason as his personal self-insert.
  • Dork Age:
    • For Tim Drake, the period around 2004 to 2008 saw his Trauma Conga Line kick into high gear: his father was killed off in the controversial Identity Crisis miniseries, his girlfriend and successor Stephanie Brown was killed in the hated War Games arc, his best friend Superboy was killed off in Infinite Crisis, and his other best friend Bart Allen was killed even later. This storm of angst combined with another infamous storyline remained a stain on the character's record until Chuck Dixon, Fabian Nicieza, and Chris Yost took on the book.
    • Tim entered another one with the New 52, where his character veered further into "Batman Jr." territory and his unique Robin traits were eliminated. He was now never an ordinary kid and was always a child prodigy at every skill he would need to be Robin. Instead of discovering Batman's identity on his own and realising that Bruce needed a Robin, he was now already being headhunted by Bruce and idiotically got on the Penguin's radar, which led to his family having to enter witness protection and thus him assuming the new identity of Tim Drake... yes, it's not even his real name.
  • Ensemble Dark Horse:
    • Tim Drake is considered to be this, for being a worthy successor to Dick and for being a competent character in his own right, separate from Batman.
    • Carrie Kelley, who was introduced in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, is well-liked by fans as well. She would finally making her way to the main DC Universe with The New 52, though not as Robin (despite being introduced after Damian's death and being teased as his successor), although she was the fan-favourite candidate.
  • Jerkass Woobie: Jason Todd and Damian Wayne to different degrees. Both are arrogant and confrontational, and neither has any problem with lethal force, even if they'll reign it in when working with Batman. But their lives have been less than ideal: Jason was tortured to death by Joker and resurrected years later to a world where it seemed like his father-figure has all but replaced him, while Damian was raised by a death cult dedicated to his grandfather, Ra's Al Ghul and trained to be a remorseless killer while his mother only cared about him to the extent that he did what she wanted him to do.
  • Mainstream Obscurity: Ask anyone how many Robins are there, and expect people to be surprised that there's more than one or two Robins in the comics. Dick and Tim are usually who the general population know most thanks to the animated series and the Batman: Arkham Series
  • Memetic Loser: Non-comic fans usually think that Robin is this since he is usually shown to be a Distressed Dude in his portrayal outside comics, mostly with the 1960's show with Burt Ward and the godawful Batman & Robin film. Even Christian Bale shares the sentiment, stating he'd refuse to film anymore Batman movies if Robin were ever added to the franchise.
  • Misblamed: In-Universe, whenever Jason's death is brought up, it's usually blamed for his temper and impulsiveness, rather than the actual cause, which was his biological mother, Sheila Haywood, leading him into a trap.
  • More Popular Replacement: Tim Drake was much more warmly welcomed by fans compared to Jason Todd. This is mostly because Jason himself was a Replacement Scrappy for Dick Grayson and also due to his excessively angsty nature. In contrast, Tim was the Nice Guy who meshed well with the rest of the Bat family. Though Jason himself would end up undergoing a case of Rescued from the Scrappy Heap after coming Back from the Dead and took up the identity of Red Hood.
  • My Real Daddy:
    • Chuck Dixon often gets this praise from Tim Drake fans, having defined the character, alongside a majority of the Batfamily as a whole, throughout the 90s and early 00s.
    • Judd Winick is usually considered this for Jason Todd, due to his "Under the Hood" storyline and how pooly received Red Hood and the Outlaws is. Though Grant Morrison is generally praised for his portrayal of Jason as a vigilante gone overboard.
  • Narm: Tim Drake's identity of Red Robin can be hard to take seriously for readers familiar with the restaurant chain.
  • Never Live It Down:
    • Dick for the short-shorts and pixie boots, combined with the homoerotic subtext between himself and Batman.
    • Jason for the same costume more or less as Dick. Both in-universe and the readers always label him as "the angry Robin". As Robin, Jason was more impulsive than angrynote , the anger only showing up a handful of times, usually involving Two-Face, who killed Jason's father. Even the idea that he would go as far as murder was brought up in a few specific instances.
    • Tim for his angst, and his own costume choices, going from "Condom Head" to the "Swan Queen."
    • Steph for screwing over Gotham in "War Games".
    • Damian for nearly murdering Tim and beheading the Spook in his first appearance
    • Robin in general gets a lot of crap for supposedly being a Distressed Dude. While Dick played this role straight a lot in the 60s TV show and Schumacher films, generally Batman was captured with him, and in the comics themselves Dick then went on to found the Teen Titans and become The Heart of the entire DCU as Nightwing. As noted in True Art Is Angsty, some people seem to think that Robin cannot work in live action, even if they're willing to admit he could work seriously in animated or comic form (which leads to some form of Animation Age Ghetto mentalities).
  • Replacement Scrappy: Pretty much every legacy to take on the role for either the one before them, or for Dick Grayson himself. Jason got so much vitriol it lead to killing him off, Steph's still not forgiven by some hardcore Robin fans for not 'earning' the role, and a big part of the reason Damian is seen as such a Creator's Pet is because he was made Robin seemingly just because of his last name and usurped Tim Drake. Duke Thomas also got lots of backlash when he was being teased as the new Robin, though it's died down since Damian's return. Tim seems to be the only one not to be hated due to being a Hypercompetent Sidekick Kid Hero who helped shrug off the reputation of being a Distressed Dude, but even there, there are some fans who seem to see Dick Grayson as the only Robin and so hate him and the legacy for this reason (though, these are rare), and his New 52 version is pretty much this for his Post-Crisis version.
  • Rescued from the Scrappy Heap:
    • Jason Todd gained quite a few fans as Red Hood when he first reappeared, although he was still the biggest Base-Breaking Character Robin. This has gone back and forth, with the character's portayal being panned in the likes of Bruce Jones's "Nightwing" run, "Battle For The Cowl", and the Scott Lobdell's Red Hood and the Outlaws.
    • Stephanie Brown became a fan favorite thanks to her highly praised Batgirl series.
    • Damian Wayne, thanks to some nice character development and his relationship with Bruce and Dick, has become less of a Base-Breaking Character.
    • Duke Thomas became more liked after Damian's return and it being clear that he wasn't going to be the new, official Robin.
  • Take That, Scrappy!:
    • Jason Todd's death, the result of a call-in vote. However, various factors have come to light which muddle the issue. Many readers at the time were children, and couldn't make the not-so-cheap phone call. Also, in an interview, Dennis O'Neil recalls hearing a rumour that one guy had his computer call the number to have Jason killed multiple times. However, quite a few people also thought the vote was for Dick Grayson, and voted to keep Robin alive, thinking it was him, and that is not a rumour.
    • The creators seem to be aware how much of their fanbase dislikes Damian, and while they continue to push him as a prominent character they'll take the opportunity to have other characters take him down a peg. Like this giant panel of Jon Kent gut-punching him.
    • Jason, as Red Hood, also gets this treatment, often at the hands of Damian, as a Kick the Son of a Bitch moment.
  • They Changed It, Now It Sucks!:
    • The New 52's origin for Tim Drake is heavily criticized by many fans. Pre-boot, he was an intelligent, non-athletic nice guy and Audience Surrogate who had the most "normal" upbringing of all the Robins and became Robin because he realized how important it was for Batman to have a Robin. In the New 52 continuity, he's an arrogant, friendless gymnast who has never been "Robin" and only ever been "Red Robin", he became Batman's sidekick because he wanted a challenge and his last name isn't really Drake.
    • The New 52 version of Jason Todd receives a lot of this as well. Where he was previously a nuanced villain in Batman: Under the Red Hood, the post-Flashpoint version of him is more of a cookie-cutter angsty anti-hero. It also doesn't help that he's been clumsily integrated back into the Bat family (most likely by editorial mandate), and is utilized as The Generic Guy or for The Worf Effect. That most of his post-Flashpoint series are written by Scott Lobdell and have been lambasted by critics and fans alike also makes things worse.
  • They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: Tim Drake post new-52. Before flashpoint, he is one of the most popular DC characters thanks to him being an Audience Surrogate and even has his own book that lasted a long time. Post-new 52, his new characterization was not well received by fans and you'll be hard-pressed to find him featured in a story arc.
  • The Woobie: In-Universe, Tim was treated this way after he lost his father, his girlfriend Stephanie, and his best friend, Superboy, all in rapid succession.
  • Tough Act to Follow: Whenever there's a change in creative team for a Robin, fans are often split as to whether or not the new writer does the character justice.
    • Dick: Due to the number of different writers who have been influential to the character (such as Marv Wolfman, Chuck Dixon, Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, Tom King and Tim Seeley), this trope is either Turned Up to Eleven (where fans insist that only one creator truly understands the character), or averted entirely (in which fans are willing to accept different takes on him).
    • Jason: As the writer of both the Under the Hood comic (and it's adaptation), Judd Winick is considered My Real Daddy for Jason Todd as Red Hood, though many do consider Red Hood's best story to be in Grant Morrison's Batman. This is why the post-Flashpoint anti-hero Jason is often considered The Scrappy even in his own book, particularly when compared to the previously mentioned.
    • Tim: Chuck Dixon is widely considered to be the definitive writer, though the Red Robin series generally gets a fair amount of praise from Tim Drake fans.
    • Damian: Most depictions of Damian are heavily (and often unfavorably) compared to how Grant Morrison and Peter Tomasi write him, with the former being his creator, and the latter having written well-loved runs that emphasize the warmer aspects of Damian's Jerk with a Heart of Gold traits.
  • Trolling Creator: Batman writer Tom King posted a half-serious Batfamily combat rankings list that enraged fans to no extent, prompting other writers to get in on the fun as well. Some of the controversial picks included ranking both Cassandra Cain and Dick Grayson over Batman himself, and putting Jason Todd and Tim Drake below some notable female characters. To add insult to injury, he also jokingly ranked Jason below Ace the Bathound in terms of intelligence.
  • True Art Is Angsty: A part of the reason for so much stigma against Robin outside of cartoons and comics; the idea of Batman, a dark and brooding loner, taking on a protogé who dresses in a campy brightly coloured costume is seen as such an ill-fitting idea that some believe that Robin simply cannot work on film, and its not helped by the only time he got a 'serious' film adaptation was the Joel Schumacher films, Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, which didn't do well for his image, leading both Christian Bale and Christopher Nolan swearing against including him in their films. It should be noted that in those films and the classic Adam West 60s Batman show, Robin wasn't any worse than Batman in how he was depicted, so blaming him for it is pretty unfair.
  • WTH, Costuming Department?:
    • While it gets a pass generally for Grandfather Clause reasons, the classic Robin outfit is seen as this for many people. Of course, the biggest issue is the uncovered legs, and one could make the argument that many of the people who deride it often have no problem with female characters baring the look, which leads to some Double Standard issues.
    • The original Earth-2's Robin first costume as an adult, a bizarre mishmash of Robin and Batman's designs, having Batman's bodysuit, boots and gloves with Robin's domino mask and cape, with a mixed logo. Thankfully it was switched fairly soon afterwards to a better outfit (the same one used by Robin in Batman: The Brave and the Bold), though the Convergence: Detective Comics tie-in brought back this outfit, which is even derided in-story.
    • Tim Drake's two Red Robin costumes get this reaction from different segments of the fandom: the Pre-Flashpoint one has a cowl that sometimes gets called "Condom Head" and the overall look is reminiscent of older but sometimes forgotten character Doctor Midnight, but without anything to break up the black (Midnight had a crescent moon and green goggles). The New 52 version, meanwhile, is often seen as too busy, highly derivative, and is sometimes called the "Swan Princess" look. The former costume also extends to Dick Grayson and Jason Todd, given they both wore it, too (albeit in Dick's case, in the Elseworlds story Kingdom Come).
    • Dick Grayson's New 52 Robin outfit. Poor colour balance and unnecessary line work aside (that's the trend with the New 52), for some reason DC decided that a red arrow pointing towards his crotch was necessary, as if a thong would look good. Notable since Cyclops seemed to copy Nightwing's outfit when he was powered by the Phoenix Force, particularly Dick's red bird, and it seems Dick is returning the favour by taking Phoenix!Cyke's thong-arrow-thing.
    • Inverted/averted with the Batman: Arkham Series take on the Robin costume. Both Tim's and Dick's outfits, as shown in Arkham City and Arkham Origins respectfully, are generally well received as they could easily work as film versions of the outfits. Tim's outfit did have Fingerless Gloves that ruined it for many for obvious reasons, but his Knight look is considered an improvement for looking like armor instead of cosplay and giving him full gloves.

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