How are Leaf Boat and Hammerspace Parachute chairs?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
...and that is why I shouldn't compile preliminary lists at 3 in the morning or when I've just woken up and am still groggy. Removed Leaf Boat. I still feel Hammerspace Parachute is The Same But More Specific for Hammerspace, though.
Maybe, but that's not the same as People Sit On Chairs. A trope can still be a trope and yet be too small to be worth splitting off from the supertrope.
No, the other one.
I don't find Our Gremlins Are Different any more PSOC than any other Our Monsters Are Different trope, and it does show that that snowclone actually works. "Most examples aren't gremlins" isn't much of an argument when most examples describe what's different about them. And as the trope says, the point isn't that they're called gremlins, but that they fill a similar role. Most example are either a different named creature with the same role, or creatures called gremlins with different characteristics. Either way they're taking at least one aspect directly related to gremlins.
It's perhaps redundant along with Griping About Gremlins, although I'm not sure which is the better one in that case. Or if a split could be made between the two uses I mentioned.
Garden-Hose Squirt Surprise, Pinching Pain, Thumbtack on the Chair, Eye Poke, Ladder Tipping, and Fly in the Soup are stock jokes. Not PSOC.
Bug Splat can be a stock joke, but is PSOC when it isn't. Maybe a few above would need the same distinction.
Nose Nabbing is sometimes a stock joke, but on the page it's far too varyingly used to be a trope. PSOC.
edited 2nd Jan '15 4:00:14 PM by AnotherDuck
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Fair points. Removed some you mentioned, moved others to the repair section. I still think Nose Nabbing needs to be cut; it's basically just a list of people's noses getting grabbed. I remember Boob Bite being cut for similar reasons.
Haven't looked over all of them, but a few mentions I want to make...
Who Are You Calling Names and Now I Know How An X Feels are also both violations of No New Stock Phrases.
For Nose Nabbing, I think the question here is, does "grabbing someone's nose" have some sort of story-telling significance? I would say it could, since it's often used as a comedy trope.
Absurdly Bright Light should probably be nuked. In its base form (a light is bright) it's level 20 Chair-Sitting. As it's being used it's mostly a clone of Power Glows.
Belly Flop Crushing really needs a new page image.
Somewhat tangential, do we really NEED Embarrassing First Name, Embarrassing Middle Name, AND Embarrassing Last Name? I suggest we combine the three into something like Embarassing Names.
Vicious Vac is basically Conversed Weapons That Suck.
edited 4th Jan '15 1:46:57 AM by wrm5
No, the other one.
For the embarrassing names, I could see a distinction between a name that's commonly used, and a name that you normally wouldn't know about (like a middle name) unless told, even if you know the person in question well. Other than that, they're the same trope. Embarrassing Middle Name also has a section "For women with embarrassing married names", which really is an combination of two or three of the tropes.
Could be something for TRS.
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I can see Vicious Vac being a valid comedy trope (instead of a weapon trope) where an overly powerful vacuum cleaner ends up sucking everything, instead of just cleaning dust, but the description and examples need some serious cleanup, since it does not reflect that definition at all.
One cool canine
I created Who Are You Calling Names and Now I Know How An X Feels back before the No New Stock Phrases rule was established.
Sometimes, you just can't win them all.
Who Are You Calling Names is so underused and the example section so quote reliant that it can be cut in my opinion.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
One cool canine
Well, as Fighteer suggested, I've been working hard on trying to fix the descriptions of some of the tropes I launched. Don't know if I made them any better or any worse, though.
Sometimes, you just can't win them all.
We might want to start with cutting the pages that are clearly People Sit On Chairs.
edited 5th Jan '15 10:54:01 AM by lexicon
I feel like that's a job for the YKTTW Crash Rescue project.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Eh, most of these articles are at least somewhat old. No objections towards using this as a sub-thread.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Zzzzzzzzzz
Something to keep in mind is that just because something can be PSOC when it's used one way doesn't mean that it always is if it's being used differently. Cutting a page simply because it can have no narrative significance even if it does under other circumstances doesn't make the wiki better. That's misuse, and may indicate that the description needs some work, not that the trope isn't one at all.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
That's way too big a list to go through right now, but here's a few standouts:
- Absurdly Bright Light: Kinda all over the place. There's no consistent meaning through the examples. If it stays, it needs massive overhaul.
- Fly in the Soup: Description needs a lot of help, but the trope is there.
- Food and Animal Attraction: I'm confused by this. As written and looking at the examples, it seems to be "animals like food." But then you've also got examples that are just Delicious Distraction and Motivation on a Stick.
- Garden-Hose Squirt Surprise: Needs a new description, it's Example As Thesis where instead of Alice and Bob they just use "Character 1" and "Character 2," which is worse. Honestly, I think we just need a Stock Prank page and put a lot of these minor jokes onto it.
- Hot on His Own Trail: Never saw this as distinct from Going in Circles.
- Human Snowman: Reasonable trope, but the description is overly narrow and therefore the examples don't actually match.
- Isolation Despondency: You Are Grounded! but with an awful name. Cut.
- Kissgusting: I love the name for this. Could use a bit cleaner description, but it's pretty solid.
- Obnoxious Snarker: Not sure how this is distinct from the current definition of Deadpan Snarker.
- Recognizable by Sound: It's a trope for... someone recognizing another's voice. That's no more a thing than recognizing someone by sight. Cut.
- Reveille: Needs a cut, a description overhaul with an actual purpose, a move to useful notes, or just add it to Standard Snippit.
Absurdly Bright Light seems like it's trying for "a certain light source's brightness is exaggerated beyond all logic for comedic effect." Problem is that the examples skew more towards situations where there really is some reason for things to be blindingly bright. I'd say overhaul.
I've also started a TRS thread
for Beverage Spill, since that's a pretty clear-cut case of People Sit On Chairs and the sooner we get it cut, the better.
edited 5th Jan '15 12:55:03 PM by KyleJacobs
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Most of the tropes are okay, but many need a troper to visit the page and just do minor edits that should've been done in the YKTTW stage.
- Absurdly Bright Light — page as-is is bad, agreed. As mentioned in the draft stage, this can probably be tweaked into a solid comedy trope. "The light is so bright that...." Inbounds are 52, which is pretty good.
- Adaptation Species Change — rough as-is, especially with Example as a Thesis. Is this only covering non-humans? Are aliens and animals both separate from humans? Anthropomorphic Animal Adaptation is mentioned in the description, but there are examples in the wrong trope. Do we have a Missing Supertrope of Appearence Adaptation?
- Agitated Item Stomping — has natter and Example as a Thesis, lacks a Laconic.
- And Your Reward Is Edible — Discussion in the draft stage suggests that the page wasn't quite ready to be launched, some tropers were helping and others expressed a belief that it was People Sit on Chairs. Examples are mixed between actual rewards and people getting food. Definition should explain how it relates to other "And Your Reward Is..." tropes.
- Anthropomorphic Animal Adaptation — only issue of note specific to this trope is the definition says "the entire human cast", and that is unlikely to be a needful requirement. See Adaptation Species Change for additional issues.
- Ate It All — Needs definition rewriting to avoid Example as a Thesis.
- Babysitting Episode — Examples are "anyone babysitting", the description is suggestive of a single occasion, but the actual usage does not match Episodes.
- Belly Flop Crushing — trope examples tend towards Zero-Context Example format, not sure what can be done about that...
- Beverage Spill — I agree with ~jaytee, who pointed out in the draft that there are tropeable aspects to this, but as written it doesn't work.
- Bubblegum Popping — page seems okay. Anyone want to smooth down the definition and remove Example as a Thesis remarks?
- Bug Splat — debate was ongoing in the draft when it was launched. My own opinion is chairs/cut, nothing worth saving.
- Busy Beaver — cut, nothing worth saving. The definition sounds like it might be a definition, but the slang usages of the term make the name inappropriate and the examples are of "These works have beavers".
- Camping Episode — draft had a number of issues going on, most significantly the name. A mod had to step in and ask tropers to calm down and give reasoned arguments for Camping Episode vs Camping Trip vs Camping Plot... Page was launched without resolution of the discussion and has collected one inbound in the year since then. Proposal: unlaunch.
- Cobweb Trampoline — needs someone to love it a bit; examples started to spread into "someone touches a cobweb" instead of specifically "cobwebs are bouncy". Not real trilled with the current description, either.
- Coconut Meets Cranium — is this specifically coconuts, or "round objects falling on people's heads"?
- Cold Snap — the description wanders around a bit, what's this supposed to be? Does it belong on Episodes?
- Container Cling — lacks inbounds, description is mostly good, probably just needs an Entry Pimp.
- Detective Animal — lots of Zero-Context Example, but a valid trope in itself? Not sure. I think this is missing the larger trope of "animals have jobs", which is People Sit on Chairs in a World of Funny Animals and actually tropable in contexts where the job is done by a pet.
- Eating Pet Food — Needs Cross Wicking.
- Edible Treasure — I don't see how this is supposed to be distinct from And Your Reward Is Edible.
- Embarrassing Last Name — My opinion with the name tropes: Embarrassing First Name should be "the name the character introduces himself as is embarrassing", and Embarrassing Hidden Name should cover the rest, as "the character tries to hide their embarrassing name by leaving it out of introductions". Characters might insist on using First-Name Basis or Last-Name Basis in order to avoid Embarrassing First Name, but that makes Embarrassing Hidden Name an Enforced Trope.
- Endurance Duel — Not sure about this page, but given it is insufficiently Cross Wicked, and 36 inbounds, I'd like to see someone poke around there.
- Exorcist Head — definition suggests there's more than "head rotation", but current examples place it firmly in Stock Shout-Out territory. Opinion: move wicks and CUT.
- Eye Poke — many of the examples lack sufficient context to determine if they are talking about the same hand shape, or if this is just "attack the eyes".
- Fairy Tale Episode — Not sure this is accurately a Sister Trope to Fractured Fairy Tale. I think it works better as a Sub-Trope, with the primary aspect of the trope being "Characters from one story are put into roles of a different story.", unless we don't limit this to Fairy Tales.... I'm thinking of the Family Guy version of Star Wars specifically. Characters of on 'Verse being used to replace characters in another 'Verse sounds like a better trope.
- Feud Episode — People Sit on Chairs to me; people fight. That's the whole of the trope. The definition tries to be something more, but the examples have so many exceptions to the definition that they're lost in actual practice.
- The Finicky One — Full of Zero-Context Example, with a very loosely defined description.
- Flat Scare — needs some touching up, there's supposed to be two parts to this, but a few examples end at "X says boo". Cross Wicking please.
- Fly in the Soup — Don't see much improvement needed on the page. Cross Wicking called for here.
- Food and Animal Attraction — Seems decent, definition could use a bit more texture and a bit less Example.
- Fool's Map — fake Treasure Map? I don't believe this is sufficiently distinct, but if it is, the definition needs some sanding.
- Fox Hunting — Cross Wicking is the only problem I see.
- Frantic Object Concealment — looks like a premature launch.
- Friendship Song — Not sure this is a trope. It's people singing about their friends? Or about how friends are good to have? Doesn't seem to have a solid definition. Only 1 inbound after a year.
A through F finished.
edited 5th Jan '15 1:43:02 PM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
One cool canine
Is it my fault that my thought process is stifled? If you want, I will try to fix the tropes I launched that need help.
Sometimes, you just can't win them all.
Thoughts: I would challenge the trope status of Fox Hunting as is; it's just "a fox hunt happens in the work."
Fairy Tale Episode - Support expanding this to characters taking on the roles of any well known work.
Support merging And Your Reward Is Edible and Edible Treasure.
Merge Treasure Map and Fool's Map - nothing about a treasure map indicates there must be treasure at the end of it.
Beverage Spill, Bug Splat, Busy Beaver, Feud Episode are cuts.
I'll smooth out the definitions on Ate It All and Bubblegum Popping now.
You're not really dealing with the Example As Thesis problems. You've just been swapping out one example for the exact same one without spesific names.
One cool canine
I'm doing the best I can. Don't blame me for my lack of effort. I really have been working hard to fix the descriptions of the tropes I launched, so don't say that I haven't been doing anything about it.
Update: Beverage Spill is cutlisted.
Feud Episode is basically a duplicate of Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario, so I've got no problem cutting it.
I'm not saying you're not putting forth the effort to fix things and some of your edits have been improvements, I'm just not sure you're really understanding the problems. Feel free to ask us for help on anything you're confused about. Maybe let us know which trope you tackle next so we can look it over and let you know if you've fixed it?
There is no Planet B
Agreed.
Cave Cat, I think it might be a good idea if you could post an old description of a trope you launched and which should be fixed, and directly suggest a new write-up. That way, we could provide you feedback as to whether it's sufficient and meets the wiki's standard. I don't mind succint despcriptions, but three sentences or one paragraph are just too brief.
edited 7th Jan '15 6:32:51 PM by XFllo
UPDATE:
Due to Cave Cat's site ban, this is getting revamped. Here's the new list of agreed-upon action items, up to date as of June 16th.In Progress:
Nuke:
Repair:
Completed:
The remaining list:
edited 7th Dec '16 12:40:51 AM by KyleJacobs