Redemption Demotion - Television Tropes & Idioms

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Having a villain, especially a particularly threatening one, change sides is generally a good plot, and for three good reasons:

It lets you introduce a "darker, edgier" hero.
It reinforces our notion of the inherent goodness within people.
It prevents the Worthy Opponent from falling victim to What A Senseless Waste Of Human Life.

Unfortunately, a lot of the drama in such shows hinges on the odds being massively unequal: the bad guys always seem to have the heroes at a substantial disadvantage.

To make the character an interesting villain, he is usually built up as the equal or superior to all of the heroes, a serious threat to their team. Often, he's far and away the strongest of the Evil Minions our heroes have faced thus far.

And then he switches sides, and it all goes to hell. Suddenly, he's just one of the gang, not substantially stronger than the others. He's decidedly less powerful than the leader of the good guys. This phenomenon is related to Villain Decay.

Very common in RPGs, since the "playable" versions of the characters tend to have much lower Hit Points, fewer and less impressive abilities, and generally worse stats than the "boss" versions. In older games, they even got smaller, since hero sprites were much smaller than enemy ones.

There are a number of possible, rational justifications for why a villain-turned-ally is suddenly weaker than before:

He loses access to the information network, resources, or manpower provided by his former side.
He isolates and confines his previous evil urges and habits into a Superpowered Evil Side that only occasionally rears its head.
If he was already relying on a Superpowered Evil Side, he resolves to never use it again (or at least not as often).
If he was being driven insane by a source of power, curing him of the problem may render him sane enough to join The Hero, but will probably deprive him of that power too.
If he was using Black Magic and has now decided to leave it behind, this also obviously deprives him of his former power.
Friction with new, untrusting allies as well as feelings of personal guilt and shame can leave The Hero's new buddy handicapped by insecurity.

However, sometimes no explanation is given at all. It could be worse though; if the Heel Face Turner is particularly unlucky, he'll just suffer Redemption Equals Death and that will be the end of it. From a story telling perspective, it's more dramatic to have the villains stronger than the heroes. But if the reformed villain remains more powerful than the hero, then the villain will outshine the hero and solve problems that the hero is supposed to solve. The depowering of the villain is a sort of Deus Exit Machina to force the hero to have a difficult struggle. So remember, when you switch from evil to good, odds are good that you will start to suck.

If your character isn't exactly evil but a mere antagonist, they might fall victim to being Not So Above It All.

This trope can also apply in reverse, though, because Evil Is Cool. A character that does a Face Heel Turn will suddenly find that they have ridiculous levels of power, enough to take down their entire former team single-handedly.

Sometimes, an enemy-turned-friend loses nothing of what made him a formidable opponent in the first place. This is usually because the character wasn't previously relying on any powers or methods that could be considered evil and thus which can continue to serve him as a hero.

Slightly rarer, a new ally goes through enough Character Development (or just Training From Hell) to acquire some new, heroic ability to replace his old ways, and can contribute to the cause from then on.

Redemption Demotion should not to be confused with Dumb Is Good. Compare Good Is Boring and Good Is Impotent. See also the Balance Between Good And Evil. Frequently accompanied by Badass Decay.

For those instances where being Good is actually about being dumb rather than being the underdog, see Hero Ball or Lawful Stupid.

The exact opposite of this trope is Evil Is Dumb.

Examples

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Vegeta in Dragonball Z had destroyed dozens of planets, but when he turned good, he was left permanent second-banana to Goku. At one point, he willingly becomes a minion of the current Big Bad, pointing out that as a hero, he could only ever be second-rate, but he was a damned good villain.
- That Vegeta is a better villain than hero is further highlighted by the fact that shortly after this he makes a second Heel Face Turn, in which he attemps to save the world via a Heroic Sacrifice. And fails.
  - To be fair, Vegeta didn't suddenly get weaker at that point, it's just that Buu was that much stronger.
- Another example would be the debut of Yamcha in Dragonball. While initially posing a threat to Goku and then quickly turning good, Yamcha doesn't legitimately win a battle in the next 400-something episodes, eventually rapidly fading from relevance.
  - Ditto Tienshinhan, who permanently crippled his first on-screen opponent, nearly did the same to Yamcha, and stood toe-to-toe with Goku in their first fight (and technically won), yet was quickly banished to Jobberdom. Only stayed in the big leagues due to his Kikohou/Tri-Beam, which literally sapped the life from him. (And even then, later on, it was only good enough to sucker-punch Super Buu, who swiftly - and apparently permanently - returned the favor.)
  - Which is more than can be said for Chaozu, who didn't even win a single fight at all. That said, Tien, Yamcha and Chaozu do get a bit of redemption in a Filler episode where King Kai makes them go up against the Ginyu Force as a means of testing their training. And what's more, they win.
  - In fact, nearly all of Goku's allies were at least rivals to him, and frequently outright villains, when first introduced. And were credible threats to him. But after Defeat Means Friendship kicked in, they were quickly left in the dust by Goku.
Tokyo Mew Mew. Retasu. (Just Retasu. Zakuro retained her ability to take out scores of Monsters of the Week at once, but did we ever see Mew Lettuce with the kind of power with which she just about killed Mew Ichigo and Mew Mint used against the bad guys?)
Mermaid Melody Pichi Pichi Pitch uses this in its second season, to Noel, Coco and especially Caren.
In Beyblade, just about anyone who fought the Bladebreakers and reformed. The most egregious examples in this editor's mind are the Saint Shields, who provided a legitimate challenge for our heroes when they fought them, but were thrown aside by the Big Bad, and Tala, who got demoted from Big Bad in the first season to Kai's second banana in the third. Then he got seriously wounded when fighting the good fight.
Played straight in Digimon Adventure 02, where the first Big Bad, who was in fact the Emperor of the Digital World, joins the team and is, for the most part, not able to defeat Digimon he would have earlier brainwashed easily. To be fair, part of turning good required giving up the massive brainwashed armies he would have used, as well as the Applied Phlebotinum he used to take control of them so easily.
- It even turns out that Ken's genius and ability in sports was heavily (it's unclear how much precisely) augmented by his being infected with the Dark Spore. In the dub, Oiwkawa outright states that this is what made Ken a genius, so theoretically, with the spore dormant... This is not stated in the original, though his grades do take a dive post-Emperor.
Naruto offers us The Worf Effect victim Gaara. A psychopathic villain who would kill without a second thought, he severely injured one of the main characters, and it looked like he was about to kill Sasuke. After losing to Naruto, he becomes an ally, only to get owned in nearly every fight in which he participates (in the most recent example, he is actually killed having his sealed beast extracted, only to be revived by another character at the cost of her life). The only post-Heel Face Turn fight which he wins is one where he has a tremendous amount of backup. Granted, he is fighting against enemies that are far stronger than before, and still manages to put up a decent fight. But he never wins.
- Technically, he was doing far better than Naruto or Lee did against Kimimaro, as they could barely even hit him even when his curse mark wasn't active, and Gaara was mostly winning against him even when his curse mark reached Level 2.
  - Did we forget about that Gaara became a fricking Kage at age 15, beating Naruto to the punch, and when his rematch with Sasuke started, he clearly had the upper hand due to his sand absorbing the Amaterasu? If anything, Good has made Gaara more powerful.
  - Played perfectly straight during the fight with Deidara. If he had stayed on the offensive rather than protecting his city, he would have won handily - but he managed to pull a C Mo A even from the defeat.
Jun Manjoume begins Yu-Gi-Oh GX as a snobby but respected duelist in the Obelisk Blue dorms (the highest-ranked class) and a rival to Judai. As the series plays its course, Manjoume leaves the school, returns (but is forced into low-class Osiris Red), grudgingly becomes pals with the gang, and gains an obnoxious spirit partner in the form of Ojama Yellow. He also becomes something of a joke, especially when it comes to his crush on Asuka. At least Season 4 was about him regaining his old strength — talk about coming full circle.
- If you consider his track record while still in blue (two losses, the first at distinct advantage, and one near-loss) and compare it with his performance later on, it's more like Evil Is Dumb than anything else. Of course, Evil became smart when he temporarily joined the light cult.
Zelgadis from The Slayers, to a certain extent. While shown to have impressive powers while he still opposes the group and/or is in the plot's spotlight, once he joins the party he becomes close to useless combat-wise. Whenever he attacks, the attack usually accomplishes nothing, if only to show how powerful their adversary is. Also, his demonic ability to move faster than the eye can track seems to be largely forgotten, as it never allows him to dodge out of the way of incoming cannon blasts or spells while the rest of the party are unable to. The times when he does accomplish something in battle, it's usually something another character could've done just as well, be it shield or levitation. However, his decreasingly important role in battle is somewhat redeemed by the sheer variety of his skills, the hardiness of his stony skin (which enables him to take a cannonball to the head only to have it bounce off) and the fact that he's pretty much the only mature one in the group and often makes important discoveries and observations that the others had missed.
Avoided in Dragon Quest: Dai no Daibouken. When he leaves the dark side, Hyunckel loses some of his power; it's later explained to be a side-effect of losing the internal conflict that had driven him since childhood. When he finally finds a new reason to fight, he becomes more powerful than ever.
Freeze from Corrector Yui come from a ruthless, most dangerous and competent enemy among Grosser's henchmen into a bumbling chick who can't do anything right. Though to be fair, she's a program specifically designed to be bad, so when she starts something good....
Usually played so straight it hurts in Kinnikuman, whereby a character trumped up to be an analytical genius killing machine cyborg proceeds to lose every damn fight after his Heel Face Turn except for one. The reason for that was losing his memory and snapping back to his original brutal nature for part of the fight, thereby showing no restraint in mauling the opponent severely.
- A notable exception is found in the early enemy wrestler Ramenman, however. The authors were originally going to use him only for the first Tournament Arc, but proved so popular they brought him back as a hero, at which point he usually kicked someone's ass left and right without breaking a sweat once per arc.
Renji from Bleach is an example of this trope, albeit a justified one. By the time he comes around to the good guys side, the only baddies left to fight are the ones that would have kicked his ass even when he was on their side.
Phoenix Ikki from Saint Seiya - up to a point. It took the combined force of the good team to defeat him. After he switches sides, for a while hhe seems to retain his awesome powers. But in the later sequels, the gap between him and his fellow saints seems to be getting smaller and smaller.
- Not really, he always displays much more power than the other saints, except at the end of the battles where Seiya is always, always, always the strongest Saint.
In One Piece, Nico Robin won almost all of her fights easily, had one of the highest bounties in the series, and was the second highest ranking member of Baroque Works before joining the Straw Hat Pirates. Afterwards, she can't keep up with the stronger characters anymore.
- This is partly the result of her joining relatively late, when the series is seemingly moving away from one-on-one battles and having more opponents that none of the Straw Hats except (and sometimes even including) Luffy can defeat. She's still roughly in the middle of the crew in terms of strength, but there are fewer enemies she can hope to take on by herself.
- Despite being able to present a threat to the heroes when they fought against them, Buggy, Mr. 3 and Mr. 2 are barely able to take on the Mooks of Impel Down, whom Luffy is able to defeat almost effortlessly.
Vivio of Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. When she first accessed her Adult Form while under the villain's control in StrikerS, she had a Relic inside her and was connected to the Saint's Cradle, letting her beat the crap out of a Super Mode, Deadly Upgrade Nanoha. In ViVid, both the Relic and Saint's Cradle are no more so her Adult Form had been reined down to more normal power levels.
- Generally averted in the franchise. Fate, Arf, and the Wolkenritter don't seem to become less effective after their Heel Face Turn.
- Somewhat played straight on StrikerS, when Shamal and Zafira are defeated by two of the Numbers during the assault on Riot Force Six HQ. Just when we see the two fighting quite formidably against the Book of Darkness's corrupted defense program the last season. Then subverted again when both of them captured Otto almost effortlessly, effectively turned the tactical advantage in favour of Team Nanoha.
Accelerator in To Aru Majutsu No Index. Five minutes after deciding to stop being a jerk BAM! Brain damage.
While Jelly Jiggler from Bobobobo Bobobo was always pretty silly, he at least had some chops when he was a villain. After he turns good, though, he becomes the biggest Butt Monkey in the series.
Averted in Rurouni Kenshin : Hajime Saito is more than a match for Kenshin when they first meet, and he still is one hell of a badass after they join forces: he curbstomps Sanosuke's time and again, makes quick and short work of his "Ten Swords" share of enemies... not to mention his ties to the government are pretty much the only information network the gang has. Shinomori Aoshi maybe fits the trope more: when he joins with the good guys, he's severely wounded, and lays down his swords permanently at the end of that arc.

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Power Rangers, every single time they did the "evil ranger" plot. The original Green Ranger nearly killed the heroes in five-against-one fights, but the second he switched sides, he was weakened immensely. Ditto the Titanium Ranger, the Lunar Wolf Ranger, the Thunder Rangers, and season 12's White Ranger.
In an episode of Angel, Wolfram & Hart create a diversion to distract Angel while they extract vital information from Lorne's mind. Angel completely falls for this ruse despite its similarity to one that Angelus used on Buffy in "Becoming". Indeed, Angelus often seems a bit more clever than Angel, perhaps because Angelus is not burdened by any loyalties to his friends. A lampshade was hung on this in Season 4, with Cordelia observing that Angelus is "smart" and Angel taking umbrage.
- Angel's often portrayed as not too bright though and Wesley (the guy employed to be smart) outright states that Angelus is smarter than him. Most likely explanation is that Angelus is extremely bright but often tripped up by being Ax Crazy.
  - Another possible reason is that Angel is burdened constantly with guilt over everything he did as Angelus. The constant feeling of guilt and thinking about all the sins he committed would likely overwhelm him and cause him to perform at a lower level.
- Connor, also from Angel, personified Redemption Demotion. As a conflicted character, he was constantly switching sides; when fighting at his father's side he was a bit slower than Angel and not as agile, but when he fought against the good guys he was like Spider-Man with a cause, decking multiple foes with each blow and always one step ahead.
- Illyria in Angel too. When she was first introduced, and seemed as if she'd be the Big Bad of the 5th season, she was downright godlike in her invincibility. Wolfram and Hart, the main villains of the entire series, were collectively so weak in comparison as to be like insects to her. There were other characters in Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel who were actual gods, and Illyria could've overpowered any of them. Basically, she was Cthulhu in a cute human girl's body. But when she ended up more or less on the heroes' side, it's quickly revealed that her new, human body can't handle that level of power, and she gets powered down to the point that a minion of Wolfram and Hart is able to beat her into the ground. Justified because she was zapped with a power draining cannon.
- Spike's fall was so severe this wiki named a trope after it. Eventually Buffy tells him "I want the Spike who's dangerous, the Spike who tried to kill me when we first met." She ore-or-less gets him for the remainder of the serious, as by then the Sorting Algorithm Of Evil has rendered him no-longer overpowered.
Subverted in Star Trek Deep Space Nine - Damar is initially nothing more than Dukat's boorish second-banana, then a puppet ruler chafing under the oversight of his Dominion "allies", turned to drink just to get through the day. Once he betrays the Dominion and founds the Cardassian La Resistance, he gradually overcomes these flaws and becomes a genuinely inspiring, patriotic hero who galvanizes the entire Cardassian race into a last-second Heel Face Turn, just before his Heroic Sacrifice.

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In Heroes Of Might And Magic V a demonic general named Agrail in the end of his campaign decides that being a demon doesn't fir him and transforms into a dark elf (well, the best he could get in his condition and he turns out quite a nice guy). Naturally, he loses all his abilities and levels of experience in the process and has to start evolving from scratch.
Particularly egregious example: Magus in Chrono Trigger was an incredibly badass boss, but when he joins you, he has significantly less HP, and he has to relearn all but three of his spells. This is explained by having his powers drained by Lavos, while the discrepancy in the stats are explained by simple game mechanics and ratios — enemies and bosses have more HP, but the main characters do more damage.
Exception: The Super Robot Wars games occasionally reward the player for superior performance (or just satisfying extremely obscure requirements) with a playable boss character who retains his or her boss abilities and stats. Notable examples are Neo Granzon in Super Robot Wars Gaiden and Nashim Gun-Eden in Super Robot Wars Alpha 3, both of which are at least an order of magnitude harder to kill than any other unit in the player's army.
- The same series also plays it straight with non-bonus characters; one of the more extreme examples is in Original Generation 2, where a boss character who pulls a Heel Face Turn goes from having 100,000 HP to 5,500 - in the middle of a battle.
- An exception also comes up in Super Robot Wars Reversal(SRWR). After fighting the rival robot of Gear Fighter Dendou, Gear Fighter Ogre, you can get it and it's stats will go down but if during a route split you coose to fight the possessed Subaru who is using Ogre after the battle you get him back and find out that the bad guys put Ogre back to the stats it had before and you get to keep them this time.
- Utterly averted in Super Robot Wars J, where the big bad's Dragon undergoes a Heel Face Turn in the final battle and fights on your side; His machine still has the same 50,000 HP it had when you fought him, and he deploys with full Morale, allowing him to use the same devastating moves he used on you. Further, Gale and Julia of SPT Layzner have the same stats they had as bosses when they join you.
  - Played straight in the same game with Johnny and Yuu's sister from Brainpowerd, who's Barons are more powerful then all but Nelly Brain, but are nowhere near the 60k they exhibited as bosses.
- Played straight in the inverse in Super Robot Wars Original Generation when Ingram pulls his Face Heel Turn and steals the R-Gun to boot. The machine's stats are *way* higher than they were five seconds ago when you were using it.
- Played depressingly straight in the true final stage Super Robot Wars W. After Critic deposes Inference and takes control of the Sapientia, Applicant shows up in the Val Arm to give you a hand. Naturally, the machine is many times worse worse in every respect than it was as the final boss of the previous stage, and Applicant himself is demoted as well, with lowered stats, fewer abilities, and missing his Double Move skill as well as his face cut-in. Also, he gains Main Character status and is not allowed to die. Oi.
Kurtis in Disgaea is a ruthless boss (with a matching level), but when he eventually joins your team, he becomes much less effective. Probably because dying and coming back as a Prinny takes a lot out of you.
Justified in Disgaea 2, where such a Heel Face Turn was the result of a loss in power by pseudo-antagonist Etna. Even then, she shows every sign of only hanging around the protagonist and his entourage until she regains her former power (descriptions of which are rife with fourth-wall breakage).
Hot Blooded Matsu from Dot Hack GU is an Adept Rogue, with the ability to use Broadswords and Steam Guns, the former being his preferred weapon from his Player killing days. However, when he joins Moon Tree, he becomes a pacifist and stops using it. When you get his member address to call him into your party, he can still only equip Steam Guns. The problem here is that Adept Rogues learn moves for their chosen weapon classes at a slower rate because their actual strength is their ability to use multiple weapons, so Matsu is essentially an extremely weak Steam Gunner in comparison to your other, actual Steam Gunner.
- He'd also become your only Edge Punisher if he could use Broadswords.
Tales of Symphonia has a few rather blatant examples of this with Kratos, Sheena and Regal, with Kratos' actually happening in reverse order. What makes it strange is that Kratos Aurion is fought both in a normal and solo fight, and when fought solo, Lloyd tells him not to hold anything back, but he not only has only 1/4 the HP he has in the normal boss fights, but appears to have taken considerably more damage when the fight is over.
- Potentially even worse than the above is Zelos; if you choose the Kratos path, you end up in a boss fight against Zelos. Despite the fact that he was in your party two minutes ago, he's suddenly got five-digit HP and tons of kickass moves. A handwave is attempted by the fact that he's using angel powers, which he doesn't do with the party, but it's still jarring.
Tales of Destiny pits you against Leon Magnus, a genius swordsman who is tasked with kicking the snot out of the hero and his party. Given that this happens within the first few hours of the game, the party isn't even near the level needed to wear down his 9999 health points and survive his attacks. However, once he joins you, his level and stats are barely any higher than those of your other characters. And of course, when he turns against the party halfway through the game, he suddenly gets a whopping five digit health and access to moves that the party member version didn't.
- The Remake gives this more of a realism by reducing the boss version's HP and statistics to around what they should be when he joins the party, and instead just made him literally unbeatable.
Flynn, of Tales Of Vesperia, is an odd example — although he's not evil in the slightest. In the one instance when he joins you in combat, he has somewhere around 5000 HP and a paltry amount of Artes. Approximately one day later in the game's timeline, he and Yuri duke it out — and he's suddenly gained six-digit HP and a repertoire of deadly Artes, including Holy Lance and a Mystic Arte, Radiant Dragon Fang. He must've done a buttload of Level Grinding in that one day.
- Captain Schwann exemplifies both this trope and Evil Is Cool. As a boss, he's incredibly difficult (although most of the difficulty comes from the fact that your primary healer is absent from the party, and the secondary healer), has six-digit health, has a Mystic Arte, and extremely powerful techniques. He's missing most of those techniques and is back down to four-digit health when he rejoins the party not much later as Raven. However, he does come back with a weapon that teaches him the Special skill, so he does at least keep his Mystic Arte.
Lunar Eternal Blue also has this with Leo...but in fact averts it in which he appears to be Level Grinding at the same rate Hiro and the rest of the crew are, and when he duels him one on one, he only has about 288 HP...around the same as he did when Hiro fought with him. But the Playstation version undoes this by giving him about 750 HP when H Iro duels him one on one...of course it was anticlimactic as one can use a technique and oneshot Leo.
Zero from the Mega Man X games is at his most powerful when he's fighting against the player: he even has access to moves that the playable Zero is never able to use. In X5, if playing as Zero in the third fortress stage, you fight X, and he does the same thing, using the Ultimate Armor that is otherwise attainable only through a cheat code or as a Guide Dang It.
- Potentially justified, depending on how you view it. X and Zero are both well-aware of each other's capabilities, which means that they are forced to go all out against each other, using techniques they would not use otherwise. Of course, the real reason is that the player needs to be challenged, but, well, it's potentially justifiable...
  - If that's why, they got themselves killed in same game by not taking Sigma seriously enough to use said tricks. Good is REALLY dumb!
- The playable character finally gets to use Zero's boss moves after defeating Bonus Boss Omega (oh, and clearing the game) in Mega Man ZX. It is GLORIOUS.
Seen also in Mega Man Powered Up. If playing as one of the other robots. In the place of The robot master you're playing as, you'll fight against an evil megaman wearing a purple scarf. He can charge his buster, Slide, and is quite the pain in the ass.
Similarly, in fellow Capcom game Devil May Cry 3, the playable version of Vergil (accessible in the Special Edition) lacks moves that the boss version can do. However, playable Vergil does get some moves his boss incarnations don't, and the series also tends to make Dante, the hero, far more Badass than any evil counterpart.
Variation: One of the drama CDs of Guilty Gear depicts an Alternate Universe in which the character Dizzy — a sweet, innocent Friend To All Living Things in the games — inherits the title of Big Bad from her mother. In the games, she's more or less toe-to-toe with the rest of the characters (sort of), partly because she's trying to suppress her powers so she doesn't hurt anyone — although this doesn't seem to change drastically when she goes berserk in the third game. In the Alternate Universe, she singlehandedly destroys a fleet of airships using one move.
Nitros, from the game Bomberman Hero. During the game, he's quite a hard guy to defeat, using all kinds of weird powers. But at one point, after you defeat him, he realizes he's been brainwashed and adds his power to yours. But do you get any special board-game based attacks? Nope, you get to lay more bombs. The funny thing here is that you'd have to be more powerful than him to defeat him in the first place. Also, as soon as you next die or turn off the game, you lose all that power. And you don't get any power from beating him another time replaying the level - it only happens when you first trigger the cutscene.
In Ultima 7 part 2, Selina the sorceress briefly joins with you early in the quest, is absolutely worthless at doing anything, and teleports out when the going gets tough. Later on, she turns up as an antagonist, and is surprisingly effective at that.
In Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits, Tatjana as well as many of Darc's allies have this to some extent, but many of them have just had no real affiliation with the villains before meeting Darc, and Tatjana had merely been betrayed as a wake-up call. Tatjana is seen as one of Dilzweld's commanders and is capable of mutating a deimos into a state where it is completely unrecognizable. She is also fought as an enemy on Darc's side, but in fact it is revealed that a lot of her power comes from having her advanced science (that is not portable) and from being able to command soldiers, since when she is a guest-party member in Kharg's group at first she is easily picked off by the boss monsters unless saved.
- There is also another part in which you have to fight the opposing party. Of course they are about as strong as they were when you left them off.
Subverted in Zone Of The Enders Fist Of Mars: It's possible for the villain's cohort to Face Heel Turn, and although she loses her powerful boss mech, she still maintains her well-above-par stats. On the good path, you can recruit someone in a boss mech with an absrud amount of hp (20000, when the others have like 5000) and strong attacks, and in the next fight she will be at full strength. Although she'll have trouble hitting the fast final boss, she will take a ridiculous amount of attacks and OHKO the minions. Also, this game subverts Evil Is Cool.
Averted in the 10th Fire Emblem. The Black Knight (a boss from the 9th game that is arguably harder then the final one (but is somewhat optional)) briefly joins the party to protect Micaiah. The only thing that stops him from being a Game Breaker is that he takes away experience points (in a game where they are limited) from horribly under leveled units that desperately need it.
- In Fire Emblem 7, Vaida is an enemy with greatly increased stats, the boss of a "survive" mission (i.e., you don't have to kill her to win, so don't even try because she has at least +5 to every stat). When she joins a mission later, she is thoroughly mediocre. Justified in that she was powered up by the Big Bad's magic.
- In an unintentional subversion, the player can use a glitch to steal Vaida's Spear, the item that was coded to increase all of her stats (dubbed the "uber spear" by fangroups), and give it back to her in the next mission, allowing her to retain her beastly stats even while Good.
- Typically always averted in the games. None of the units that you can recruit from the enemies will ever get degraded stats from what they had. In fact, on harder difficulties, enemies have higher stats... including the ones willing to join you.
Similar: In Puzzle Quest: Challenge Of The Warlords, you'll often find that after capturing an opponent, the uber-spell you were hoping to learn from it isn't available. (for instance, you can't learn Deathsting from the Giant Wasp or Breathe Ice from the Frost Dragon). Also, since the mana costs of learned spells are 50% higher than from "natural" use, often you won't have enough of a certain level to use it, even with full mana levels (Ex: You need 30 Blue Mana to use the Call The Horde spell, but Orc Lords only need 20) or the cost per attack isn't worth it (Rend is deadly in the hands of a Wyvern, not so much in yours).
Justified in Legend of Spyro: A New Beginning. The villain for almost the entire game, Cynder, is actually a baby dragon, mutated into a powerful adult-like form by the powers of the actual main villain. Once she is defeated, she is cut off from these powers and reverts to her natural younger-looking, weaker, and much less badass form. She remains in this form throughout the ending and subsequent Spyro games, where she is a protagonist.
Averted in Final Fantasy IX with Worthy Opponent Beatrix, who proves to be more than a match for your party as you battle her time and time again. However, when she realizes the ruler she has sworn fealty to has gone mad, she joins your party, and proves to be every bit as powerful as she was when you fought her. Sadly, she doesn't stay long.
- At least you can swipe her goods from her before she leaves for good. However, her kick ass sword can't be removed and her other equipment are sub par if you managed to get all the best items to date by the time you get to move her stuff.
Certainly not averted in Final Fantasy VIII — Edea the Evil Uber-Hot Gothy Witch Queen Fetish Fuel chick is the Big Bad of the first act — and turns into a rather weak playable character thereafter (additionally no longer ruling the world). It's rather a disappointment when you unlock her and think "oooh, yay!" and then end up with a somewhat wussy sorceress.
- If it's not averted, it's justified, at least. The reason she becomes good in the first place is that she loses all her sorceress powers which made her powerful (and brainwashed) to Rinoa, thus making her a normal human being. However, when you get Rinoa awake, she isn't one bit more powerful than before (except for having a new Limit Break).
  - Who said life was fair?
In Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories and Kingdom Hearts II, Riku loses most of the independence and ambition that he had when he was on the Dark Side, and leaves all the hero work to Sora (though he does regain his cool at the very end of Kingdom Hearts II, but still...)
- The same can be said about Roxas, as when he is fought as an enemy in the No Export For You version, he's far more powerful than when you played as him.
  - Roxas, at least, probably doesn't remember how to do most of it when you play as him.
Lu Bu in Dynasty Warriors 5 — In one map he's a virtually unkillable super-armoured warrior in constant Musou Rage who can kill you in one or two hits. Then you unlock him and get the version balanced like everyone else (however, since he's so cool as the NPC version, most people will mac him out ASAP anyway — but he's STILL not as tough as the NPC version (though if played well with pre-considered access to Musou Rages and the right balance of magic stuff, he can sometimes kill his other self—just barely))
Particularly bad in Castlevania III when you must fight two of you possible allies - Grant and Alucard - before they join your party. Not only do they take more hits and do more damage when you fight them, but they're significantly larger in size as well.
- Averted, however, in Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia. Albus is one of the few enemies in the game Shanoa doesn't receive Collision Damage from, and when you unlock his mode, he can still perform every attack he used in your boss battle and deals a lot of damage and can also teleport at will, allowing you to breeze very quickly through the early levels.
- Also averted in Castlevania: Symphony of the Night with Richter. Like Albus in Ecclesia, when you unlock his mode, he is a killing machine that breezes through the game at high speed, with as much or more power than he displays when you fight him in the normal game.
Partial exception: Destiny of an Emperor allows the player to recruit bosses at their full strength. However, since the main PCs gain soldiers (the game's equivalent of HP) over the course of the game and the bosses (and less important allies) don't, the bosses-turned-allies eventually become worthless. Except Zhou Yu.
Every Star Wars game ever made where Jedi powers are available to the player. Light Side powers are always defensive powers meant to resist the effect of enemy weapons and Dark Side powers, the latter being incredibly devastating offensive powers. Because you can't defeat your opponents by hiding behind a shield but you can push the "I WIN" button with a well placed Force choke or lightning, there is very little incentive to become anything else than a megalomaniac Sith bent on galaxy domination.
- Exception being Jedi Knight II and Jedi Academy, where despite being good you can still use force lightning, force choke etc.
Justified by Sarevok in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal. When he finally does join your party after having previously opposed you he has lost all of his Bhaalspawn gifts and equipment in the meantime (being dead will do that to you), not to mention that his experience has been static ever since and allowed you to close the level gap between you as well. He is still the best fighter NPC in the game despite this.
Kanon in Wild Arms 2 goes from being an extremely dangerous recurring boss to one of your weaker party members when she switches sides. There is no explanation for this whatsoever.
Lampshaded and mercilessly parodied in the Affectionate Parody game Jay's Journey, where after the player defeats Shade the Ninja, Shade and Jay realize that they're actually on the same side. Upon joining the heroes' team, Shade loses a ton of hit points, can no longer cast the Dark 2 spell, and drops one sword, causing Jay to gripe. Shade can eventually get the spell and second weapon back, but those boss-level HP are gone for good.
Final Fantasy Tactics A 2 does this with Adelle when she is brainwashed by the Big Bad. Adelle leaves the clan at one point and when she is brainwashed, her level skyrockets to 44 (or levels down if you spent a lot of time Level Grinding) and she has some awesome equipment. When you get her back, she reverts back to the level she was before she left you, goes back to the job you were raising her has, and all the items she had in the battle are not kept.
Some versions of Final Fantasy IV did this unintentionally. When Cecil converts from a Dark Knight to a Paladin, he has to fight Dark Knight Cecil as a Paladin. The Dark Knight Cecil uses Dark Wave every turn, but that attack was removed from the Easytype version (which was also the version that was released as Final Fantasy II on the Super Nintendo in the US), leading players of those versions to wonder why Dark Knights could shoot energy beams all of a sudden.
- Cecil also goes down to Level 1 as a Paladin, but starts with around 600 HP and quickly gains levels and statistic points.
Justified In The World Ends With You when Beat he decides to joins Neku's side after all other options of Neku's survival was destoryed. As a consequence he was kiccked out of the Reapers simultaneously losing all of the power that made him near impossible to Beat.
An extremely egregious example in Final Fantasy V: when you fight the summon Carbuncle, he is a huge gorilla-like beast with terrible fangs, deadly attacks and a vicious temper. You beat him, gain the power to summon him, and when you're ready to use him to thrash over your enemies...you discover that he's turned into a tiny green mouthless squirrel thing that can only cast support magic. And he will continue like that for the rest of the series.
The end of Golden Sun had Felix, a well-intentioned antagonist, challenge his more powerful, more villainous ally Saturos to a fight over the safety of a young girl he was protecting. It's bult up that Saturos is so extremely powerful Felix wouldn't have a chance, and this is thoroughly demonstrated in the final boss fight of the game. But in the sequel, you play as Felix, who starts out level 5 with minimal equipment. This is obviously for balance reasons, but plot-wise, he still went from someone who spoke as if he were a competent, experienced fighter in the first game to starting stats and equipment in the second. Had he actually fought Saturos or the player at this level, he would have been wiped out in seconds.
- However it is implied through the dialogue that Felix isn't an experienced fighter. Felix actually seems rather hesitant when he confronts Saturos. It's heavily implied that Saturos, Menardi, and Alex did most or all of the fighting during their journey in the first game.
Averted in Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door- Vivian can actually become much more powerful after joining your party.
- Despite this, oddly enough, she starts out without her Fiery Jinx move she used on you when she fought you until you go back to town to upgrade her.
Mostly averted in Luminous Arc (both games, I believe). Boss characthers are simply a few levels higher and better equipped than you, but keep their stats, and equipment (which is genereally on par with yours by the time they join). However any characther who could summon monsters won't be able to do so when they switch sides.
Inverted in Overlord with Queen Fay. In her appearances as a good guy she possesses magical powers such as teleportation, but shows no magic whatsoever after becoming your mistress following her Face Heel Turn. Justified in that turning evil was a side effect of you draining her powers to recharge your Tower Heart.
Ace Combat Zero, where Solo Wing Pixy's ADFX-02 Morgan has all three special weapons equipped without needing to RTB to change, albeit in phases, and has a far more potent ECM system than Cipher's ADFX-01 copy has. Also Ace Combat 6, where Ilya Pasternak's usage of the CFA-44 Nosferatu comes with a bunch of attendant drones, whereas Talisman's doesn't. In X, the playable Fenrir lacks the High Powered Microwave Cannon and Digital Optic Stealth of the enemy versions, though there's a throwaway line or two about being incomplete.
Played to a T in Shining Force 2. Jaro joins you mid-battle...and loses stats because he was tired of working for the Devils.
Yuffie in Final Fantasy VII has several unique and powerful attacks when you first encounter her, but upon joining your party she loses those abilities and becomes a normal character.
Subverted in Final Fantasy X with the Aeon Anima. When you first see her, she's being summoned by Seymour and she proceeds to utterly annihilate a passel of fiends infesting the city of Luca—fiends your party itself had been fighting earlier—in an apparent display of Cutscene Power To The Max. Later, in the first boss fight against Seymour, he'll summon her and, while she's no pushover, she's a far cry from the engine of destruction she was at Luca. Lastly, much, much, much later in the game, you're allowed to obtain Anima as your own summon, and, well...Can you say Game Breaker? She's obscenely powerful, naturally breaks the damage limit, and has balanced stats and no fiddly mechanics like the other overpowered Aeons have. Taking her back to Luca to fight fiends identical to the ones that invaded so long ago will reveal that, no, that was not Cutscene Power To The Max, she really can rip through them like a woodchipper with balsa. It's very surprising, and also supremely confusing when one remembers that Anima is Seymour's Final Aeon, and as such should be at her most powerful when summoned by him! I mean, he's supposed to be able to kill Sin with her, for crying out loud!
Zawu of Last Scenario had the ability to summon a troublesome boss, appear and disappear at the most convenient of times, and could even deal quite a bit of damage when you finally fight her. She was already a competent soldier when two of the main characters were just little children. And then she joins your party...
'Twisted Metal': The playable versions of Minion in every incarnation are about half the size, have no force fields, lower life, weaker weapons, etc.

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Scavenger in Transformers Armada was initially a quite a big threat, until he became an Autobot and started taking a lot of naps.
Exception: Dinobot of Transformers: Beast Wars started as a bad guy Predacon, but joined the Maximal good guys in the second episode. As a villain he was good but not overwhelmingly powerful, and after joining the Maximals he remained one of their most effective warriors up until his death. And he died fighting against every Predacon warrior in the series at that point in rapid succession, to boot!
- From the same series, though, Blackarachnia was notably less effective as a Maximal than she was as a Predacon, though more because of inner emotional distress than any explicit depowering.
After his Heel Face Turn to the side of good on Gargoyles, Xanatos laments that he's not as pro-active as he was when a villain, being limited to reacting to threats rather than causing them.
In the Rankin-Bass holiday special Santa Claus Is Coming To Town, the Winter Warlock appears as a villain with massive powers of weather control. After Kris Kringle uses The Power Of Friendship to melt his icy heart, he later sadly explains his powers are now limited to a few novelty gimmicks (such as corn that makes reindeer fly).
Lampshaded in Avatar The Last Airbender: When the Turncoat Zuko suddenly finds himself unable to Firebend, he almost instantly (and correctly) concludes, "I bet it's because I changed sides", and has to spend the rest of the episode getting it back. After this he becomes a straight Evil Is Dumb
In The Batman, the original Clayface, Ethan Bennett turns good and goes fighting a new clayface who has the exact same powers. Despite having three more years to practice with his powers, Bennett still loses miserably to the new clayface, who just got his power a few days ago.
- This had more to do with the new Clayface taking an ass-load more of the clay that mutated them than Bennett as he became infected intentionally. Also, unlike Bennett, Karlo didn't have to worry about losing control because he didn't care.
Ben 10's Evil Counterpart Kevin 11 seems to be going through both this and The Worf Effect following his mid-series Heel Face Turn between Ben 10 and Ben 10 Alien Force.
Mark Chang on The Fairly Oddparents is the prince of the most feared planet in the galaxy, which is very apparent in his early apperances. Then, after his Heel Face Turn, he seems totally unable to fight Princess Mandie.