History Main / RedemptionDemotion

21st Jun '17 2:46:49 PM Linneus
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Compare GoodIsBoring and GoodIsImpotent. See also the BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil. Frequently accompanied by BadassDecay and/or VillainDecay. RedemptionPromotion is the opposite of this trope.

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Compare GoodIsBoring and GoodIsImpotent. See also the BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil. Frequently accompanied by BadassDecay and/or VillainDecay.VillainDecay and in video games, you'll likely see a few SecretAIMoves. RedemptionPromotion is the opposite of this trope.


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* ''VideoGame/CastlevaniaSymphonyOfTheNight'':
** Justifying this trope makes up the opening to the game. Alucard, having chosen to renounce Dracula's ways prior to the start of the game, storms the castle with a few extremely powerful weapons, obliterating every single one of the first enemies in a single hit. The moment he meets Death and it's revealed what's going on, Death steals all of the weapons and in the next room, the character who was mowing through giant beasts in a single sword swipe is now resorting to ''punching a slow, weak zombie to death'' just for a short sword.
** Inverted with Richter, whose powers as a vampire hunter would seem to prove very useful against Alucard when he's under the control of Shaft, but Richter is not particularly powerful or difficult as the DiscOneFinalBoss. When unlocked as a playable character, however, he becomes a DifficultButAwesome LightningBruiser who has an array of extremely powerful moves that can be chained together at speeds much greater than he ever pulls off during the boss fight.
1st Jun '17 1:56:57 PM CountDorku
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* Omnitron-X in ''TabletopGame/SentinelsOfTheMultiverse'' is theoretically more advanced than the various Omnitrons you face in play, but has less power because it needs to coexist with other heroes in the co-operative game: its components break more easily, its removal effects do less damage and destroy less, its plating is more limited and only lowers, rather than eliminates, damage, and it can't create drones. A JustifiedTrope, though: Omnitron is a factory. Cosmic Omnitron is the size of a large vehicle. Omnitron-X is basically a mechanical human. There isn't ''space'' for drone factories or enormous railguns, so it has to make do with what it can fit on a humanoid form.
30th May '17 2:24:43 PM Prometheus117
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* ''Manga/FairyTail'': When Juvia and Gajeel join the Fairy Tail Guild post Tower of Heaven arc, they go from being S-Class Phantom Lord mages to be regular Fairy Tail mages. It's worth noting that S-Class is a rank decided by individual guild masters and not a calculation of power (although if you make S-Class you tend to be pretty dang strong), but going by [[TournamentArc Grand Magic Game]] standards Fairy Tail S class wizards are significantly more powerful than those of other guilds.

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* ''Manga/FairyTail'': When Juvia and Gajeel join the Fairy Tail Guild post Tower of Heaven arc, they go from being S-Class Phantom Lord mages to be regular Fairy Tail mages. It's worth noting that S-Class is a rank decided by individual guild masters and not a calculation of power (although if you make S-Class you tend to be pretty dang strong), strong, and Juvia herself was considered a candidate for the Fairy Tail S-Class Exam while Gajeel, while certainly strong enough to qualify, was still under suspicion for his actions against the guild during the Fairy-Phantom war), but going by [[TournamentArc Grand Magic Game]] standards Fairy Tail S class S-class wizards are significantly more powerful than those of other guilds.guilds.
** Panther Lily went from being [[BadassNormal strong enough to fight Gajeel in a one-on-one despite lacking any real offensive Magic aside from flight and his BFS]] as a villain during the Edolas arc to being far less effective in combat after it. This is {{justified}} however in that he lost the ability to maintain his [[OneWingedAngel Battle form]] constantly like in Edolas and can only maintain for a limited time before he returns to his [[SleepModeSize true tiny form]]. On the occasions he can cut loose before he runs out of time, he's still just as dangerous. His {{BFS}} was destroyed during said arc as well and it took him awhile to find [[MorphWeapon a new one that could change size with him]].
20th May '17 2:56:26 PM flameclaw0x7
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Unfortunately, a lot of the drama in such works hinges on the odds being massively unequal: the villains always seem to have the heroes at a substantial disadvantage. To set a villain apart from being an IneffectualSympatheticVillain, a HarmlessVillain, [[LaughablyEvil or otherwise being comedic]], [[KnightOfCerebus they are built up as the equal or superior to all of the heroes]], [[HeroKiller a serious threat to their team]]. Often, they're far and away the strongest of the EvilMinions our heroes have faced thus far.

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Unfortunately, a lot of the drama in such works hinges on the odds being massively unequal: the villains always seem to have the heroes at a substantial disadvantage. To set a villain apart from being an IneffectualSympatheticVillain, a HarmlessVillain, [[LaughablyEvil or otherwise being comedic]], [[KnightOfCerebus they are built up as the equal or superior to all of the heroes]], heroes combined]], [[HeroKiller a serious threat to their team]]. Often, they're far and away the strongest of the EvilMinions our heroes have faced thus far.
30th Apr '17 7:21:05 PM Gamermaster
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** Vivio in ''[[Manga/MagicalGirlLyricalNanohaViVid ViVid]]''. In Strikers, she goes toe-to-toe with Nanoha, an experienced solider wielding latest in technomagical hardware. When she gets her own series, she's struggling against juvenile civilians in martial arts tournaments. It's explained that Nanoha damaged her Linker Core when they fought but it comes across as a blatant nerf to stop Vivio from curbstomping everyone.
*** Lutecia Alpine is also much weaker in Vivid than she is in Strikers. Because she's still on probation, she's only allowed to participate in the tournament under a PowerLimiter.

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** Vivio in ''[[Manga/MagicalGirlLyricalNanohaViVid ViVid]]''. In Strikers, ''[=StrikerS=]'', she goes toe-to-toe with Nanoha, an experienced solider wielding latest in technomagical hardware. When she gets her own series, she's struggling against juvenile civilians in martial arts tournaments. It's explained that Nanoha damaged her Linker Core when they fought but it comes across as a blatant nerf to stop Vivio from curbstomping everyone.
*** Lutecia Alpine is also much weaker in Vivid ''[=ViVid=]'' than she is in Strikers.''[=StrikerS=]''. Because she's still on probation, she's only allowed to participate in the tournament under a PowerLimiter.
29th Apr '17 8:29:45 PM ImpudentInfidel
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* Justified in ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights2'': by the point [[spoiler:Ammon Jerro]] joins you, he has just been stripped of his incredible power as a result of [[spoiler:Shandra]] freeing the bound demons that powered him.

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* Justified in ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights2'': by the point [[spoiler:Ammon Jerro]] joins you, he has just been stripped of his incredible power as a result of [[spoiler:Shandra]] freeing the bound demons that powered him. Still somewhat in play due to GameplayAndStorySegregation; he's supposed to be a powerful wizard with some bonuses thanks to his demonic pacts, but when you control him he's a pure Warlock (a ''much'' weaker class in this game).
24th Apr '17 3:54:08 PM infernape612
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* In ''VideoGame/{{Ultima VII Part II}}'', Selina the sorceress briefly joins with you early in the quest, is absolutely worthless at doing anything, and teleports out when the going gets tough. Later on, she turns up as an antagonist, and is surprisingly effective at that. You later find out that she was working against you from the very beginning, and was presumably half-assing it while she was in your party.

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* In ''VideoGame/{{Ultima VII Part II}}'', ''VideoGame/UltimaVIIPartII'', Selina the sorceress briefly joins with you early in the quest, is absolutely worthless at doing anything, and teleports out when the going gets tough. Later on, she turns up as an antagonist, and is surprisingly effective at that. You later find out that she was working against you from the very beginning, and was presumably half-assing it while she was in your party.



* Slight example in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIX'' with WorthyOpponent Beatrix, who proves to be [[HopelessBossFight more than a match for your party as you battle her time and time again]]. When she realizes the ruler she has sworn fealty to has gone mad, she joins your party, and proves to be every bit as powerful as she was when you fought her. (Sadly, [[GuestStarPartyMember she doesn't stay long.]]) However, her [[ManaMeter MP]] seems to take a nosedive upon joining you, meaning that she can't use her frighteningly powerful sword skills as often as she could when she was against you. And said sword skills have been downgraded from "TotalPartyKill" to "slightly better than Steiner's" [[HealthDamageAsymmetry when used against monsters instead of your party.]] On the other hand, you learn that she did not use ''all'' of her spells against you, such as Full-Life or (thankfully) [[LightIsGood Holy]].
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'', Edea the Evil Uber-Hot Gothy Witch Queen FetishFuel chick is the BigBad of the first act -- and turns into a rather weak playable character thereafter (additionally no longer ruling the world). The reason she becomes good in the first place is that she loses all her sorceress powers which made her powerful (and brainwashed) to Rinoa, thus making her a normal human being. When Squall tries to physically stop the brainwashed Rinoa from leaving the lunar base, he gets launched into the nearest wall. However, when you get Rinoa back, she isn't one bit more powerful than before (except for having a new LimitBreak).



* {{Justified|Trope}} In ''VideoGame/TheWorldEndsWithYou'' when [[spoiler:Beat]] decides to joins Neku's side after all other options of Neku's survival was destroyed. As a consequence he was kicked out of the [[spoiler:Reapers]], simultaneously losing all of the power that made him near impossible to beat.

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* {{Justified|Trope}} In ''VideoGame/TheWorldEndsWithYou'' when [[spoiler:Beat]] decides to joins join Neku's side after all other options of for Neku's survival was are destroyed. As a consequence he was is kicked out of the [[spoiler:Reapers]], simultaneously losing all of the power that made him near impossible to beat.



* Mostly averted in ''VideoGame/LuminousArc''. Boss characters are simply a few levels higher and better equipped than you, but keep their stats, and equipment (which is genereally on par with yours by the time they join). However any character who could summon monsters won't be able to do so when they switch sides.
* [[VillainProtagonist Perspective flipped]] in ''VideoGame/{{Overlord II}}'' with Queen Fay. In her appearances as a hero she possesses magical powers such as teleportation, but shows no magic whatsoever after becoming your mistress following her FaceHeelTurn. [[JustifiedTrope Justified]] in that turning evil was a side effect of you draining her powers to recharge your Tower Heart, and the Tower Heart has also consumed every drop of magic in the entire Sanctuary, so that by the time Fay is converted she's ''literally'' out of juice.
* ''VideoGame/AceCombat Zero'', where [[spoiler:Solo Wing Pixy's]] ADFX-02 Morgan has all three special weapons equipped without needing to RTB to change, albeit in phases, and has a far more potent ECM system than Cipher's ADFX-01 copy has. Also ''Ace Combat 6'', where Ilya Pasternak's usage of the CFA-44 Nosferatu comes with a bunch of attendant drones, whereas Talisman's doesn't. In ''X'', the playable Fenrir lacks the High Powered Microwave Cannon and Digital Optic Stealth of the enemy versions, though there's a throwaway line or two about being incomplete.
* Played to a T in ''VideoGame/ShiningForce 2''. Jaro joins you mid-battle...and loses stats because he was tired of working for the Devils.



* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'', Edea the Evil Uber-Hot Gothy Witch Queen FetishFuel chick is the BigBad of the first act -- and turns into a rather weak playable character thereafter (additionally no longer ruling the world). The reason she becomes good in the first place is that she loses all her sorceress powers which made her powerful (and brainwashed) to Rinoa, thus making her a normal human being. When Squall tries to physically stop the brainwashed Rinoa from leaving the lunar base, he gets launched into the nearest wall. However, when you get Rinoa back, she isn't one bit more powerful than before (except for having a new LimitBreak).
* Slight example in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIX'' with WorthyOpponent Beatrix, who proves to be [[HopelessBossFight more than a match for your party as you battle her time and time again]]. When she realizes the ruler she has sworn fealty to has gone mad, she joins your party, and proves to be every bit as powerful as she was when you fought her. (Sadly, [[GuestStarPartyMember she doesn't stay long.]]) However, her [[ManaMeter MP]] seems to take a nosedive upon joining you, meaning that she can't use her frighteningly powerful sword skills as often as she could when she was against you. And said sword skills have been downgraded from "TotalPartyKill" to "slightly better than Steiner's" [[HealthDamageAsymmetry when used against monsters instead of your party.]] On the other hand, you learn that she did not use ''all'' of her spells against you, such as Full-Life or (thankfully) [[LightIsGood Holy]].



* Mostly averted in ''VideoGame/LuminousArc''. Boss characters are simply a few levels higher and better equipped than you, but keep their stats, and equipment (which is genereally on par with yours by the time they join). However any character who could summon monsters won't be able to do so when they switch sides.
* [[VillainProtagonist Perspective flipped]] in ''VideoGame/{{Overlord II}}'' with Queen Fay. In her appearances as a hero she possesses magical powers such as teleportation, but shows no magic whatsoever after becoming your mistress following her FaceHeelTurn. [[JustifiedTrope Justified]] in that turning evil was a side effect of you draining her powers to recharge your Tower Heart, and the Tower Heart has also consumed every drop of magic in the entire Sanctuary, so that by the time Fay is converted she's ''literally'' out of juice.
* ''VideoGame/AceCombat Zero'', where [[spoiler:Solo Wing Pixy's]] ADFX-02 Morgan has all three special weapons equipped without needing to RTB to change, albeit in phases, and has a far more potent ECM system than Cipher's ADFX-01 copy has. Also ''Ace Combat 6'', where Ilya Pasternak's usage of the CFA-44 Nosferatu comes with a bunch of attendant drones, whereas Talisman's doesn't. In ''X'', the playable Fenrir lacks the High Powered Microwave Cannon and Digital Optic Stealth of the enemy versions, though there's a throwaway line or two about being incomplete.
* Played to a T in ''VideoGame/ShiningForce 2''. Jaro joins you mid-battle...and loses stats because he was tired of working for the Devils.



* In ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'', TheMole [[spoiler:Goro Akechi]] is far more powerful as a two-stage boss fight than they are as a playable character. Justified since they were deliberately holding back their true strength since using it would conflict with their story that they only recently got their Persona.



* In ''VideoGame/{{Sonny}}'', Felicity is an early-game boss battle, with 2500 HP. When she joins you at end game, she has... 2500 HP. Which wouldn't seem too bad, except you and your enemies will probably be doing about 1500 damage per hit, not counting special attacks, making her an ultra-brittle GlassCannon.

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* In ''VideoGame/{{Sonny}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Sonny}} 2'', Felicity is an early-game boss battle, with 2500 HP. When she joins you at end game, she has... 2500 HP. Which wouldn't seem too bad, except you and your enemies will probably be doing about 1500 damage per hit, not counting special attacks, making her an ultra-brittle GlassCannon.
3rd Apr '17 6:33:40 AM MagBas
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** In ''Anime/DigimonFrontier'', Duskmon is able to cross swords with Beowulfmon without breaking a sweat, and can hold his own against the entire team. [[spoiler: Following Koichi's HeelFaceTurn, his "purified" Dark Spirits are basically on-par with those of the rest of the group.]]
2nd Apr '17 8:25:28 PM josh6243
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** While still ridiculously powerful in ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsV'', [[Manga/ShinMazingerZero Mazinger ZERO]] loses its regeneration ability after it joins.
12th Mar '17 7:27:38 AM NESBoy
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* Cyril Sneer in ''WesternAnimation/TheRaccoons''. In the first four TV specials is a ruthless maniac prone to cruelty and greed. In the series starts menacing but a little more moderate, more like TheScrooge to eventually evolve into what was basically and AntiHero and a regular ally of the raccoons when it matters. Like in the next to last episode "The One That Got Away!" in which he helps arresting a CorruptCorporateExecutive [[GreenAesop polluting a pond]].
-->'''Cedric''': [[IsntItIronic That's my dad, the environmental crusader]].

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* Cyril Sneer in ''WesternAnimation/TheRaccoons''. In the first four TV specials is a ruthless maniac prone to cruelty and greed. In the series starts menacing but a little more moderate, more like TheScrooge to eventually evolve into what was basically and an AntiHero and a regular ally of the raccoons when it matters. Like in the next to last episode "The One That Got Away!" in which he helps arresting a CorruptCorporateExecutive [[GreenAesop polluting a pond]].
-->'''Cedric''': [[IsntItIronic [[{{Irony}} That's my dad, the environmental crusader]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.RedemptionDemotion