Ambiguous Name: I Have The High Ground

Original OP by ~GoldenCityBird. I added the wick check to it for preservation purposes since the sandbox will eventually get cut.

I Have The High Ground is a rather specific trope, dealing with characters standing on tall, thin structures, primarily just for the Rule of Cool or intimidation. However, the trope is heavily misused across the site. According to this wick check:

• Around 19% of checked examples have enough context to tell that they're correct.
• An exact third (33%) of checked examples are definite misuse. This can be broken down as follows:
  • 5% lack the "thin structure" part of the definition, with characters standing on balconies or floating instead.
  • 16% referred to wrestlers using an agile, aerial wrestling style.
  • 12% used it as the Trope Namer does; using elevated terrain and other high places for tactical advantages.
• Around 48% of checked examples didn't have enough context.

The trope's name may be a source of the misuse; a rename may be in order, or perhaps a disambiguation.

Wicks checked: 50/50

Bad Trope Namer... Since roughly 20% of the examples are correct, a rename can work.

The "using higher ground for strategic advantage" is some kind of Geo Effects, right?

Considering that Geo Effects has a parody of the Trope Namer as its page image, maybe we could merge them to make the name and trope less ambiguous?

Move "high area advantage" examples to Geo Effects.

Rename I Have The High Ground to something like Looking Down On Your Enemies (name not final).

Optionally expand since standing on tall/thin objects may be too specific, villains waiting at stairs just a couple meters higher invokes the same effect.

Edited by Amonimus on May 13th 2022 at 2:08:20 PM

Rename and expand the scope of the trope.

As for the name, Standing On A High Ground?

So what's gonna happen to examples like Batman in this◊ shot or Selene here◊? That's how I see the trope used most often in Western media.

Edited by eroock on May 14th 2022 at 4:26:05 AM

That's why I want to expand to include something like these, just need a good description. If that fails, Watching Over City can be own trope.

i agree with expanding. i think the "standing on a thin structure" aspect is far too narrow

ETA: actually, I think there might be something there but it's not as the trope is explaining it. way I see it there's:

• standing on a high point and looking down or out as a form of intimidation and coolness
• balancing on a very thin, tall, and maybe unstable structure to emphasize a character's agility/nimbleness and/or them being not normal in some way (very strong, otherworldly)

I haven't looked through the examples to see if any fit the second, but I've seen it out in the wild

Edited by amathieu13 on May 13th 2022 at 11:40:00 AM

Amonimus's proposal sounds good.

Additionally, the Wrestling misuse should probably be split off to its own page. I couldn't find any relevant trope anywhere, so perhaps we could try TLPing Aerial Fighter or something.

I thought I'd add that I'm in favor of expanding it because the thinness requirement seems arbitrary because allowing things like balconies and skyscrapers in addition to things like flagpoles and streetlights doesn't seem like it would make this less tropeworthy.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 14th 2022 at 6:21:30 AM

Splitting off the Anime (pole) and the Western version (ledge) could be a move.

Amonimus's proposal

Wrestling examples are already covered by Wrestler in All of Us.

Also I see no significant difference between standing on pole or ledge.

I don't see any significant difference between those two, either. If different countries prefer one over the other, then it sounds like we want an Analysis page, not a separate trope.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 14th 2022 at 9:15:51 AM

: They aren't, though; Wrestler in All of Us is about unlikely characters with wrestling moves. The wrestling misuse here is about wrestlers using an aerial fighting style (from what I can gather from the checked wicks). I fail to see the correlation.

All of the aerial move wicks point to wrestlers, but if there are enough examples still among the wicks, a trope for it can be yarded/TLPed.

couldn't we have two split the trope in tow?

One involving Standing on tall, thin structures for coolness/intimidation and the other utilize high areas as part of a flashy fighting style?

That way we wouldn't be confusing this trope.

If we do split, I'd still prefer that we ditch the current name.

Yeah, it sounds like Geo Effects.

fair enough. I up for it.

Crowner options

• Rename
• Expand to cover all types of high ground.

Anything else? Split trope ideas can be yarded so I don't think they need to be on the crowner.

I disagree with leaving splitting off the crowner. In addition, while the main split being proposed was for splitting off examples that aren't tall and thin, the examples for aerial wrestling moves might be easier to split right away since there were more of those examples in the wick check than there were for structures that aren't tall and thin.

If anything, we could provide an option to expand I Have The High Ground to include structures that aren't tall and thin in addition to one for splitting off those examples (a rename could happen with either a split or expansion), while also having a separate option for splitting off the examples for aerial wrestling moves.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 16th 2022 at 10:03:00 AM

Give explanation for the "Split off or Yard" thing. I'm drawing a blank.