How sweet it is
Sorry for the wait, ~Momochi. Opened.
I'm thinking a trope transplant is in order.
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This is not a descriptive title for a trope about realizing you're dreaming. Support a transplant and new title for this one.
The penultimate paragraph mentions the pinching as a stronger indicator of dreaming than just the realisation of dreaming. Can't we just expand the trope and make the more popular pinching variant the central theme?
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Expand to what? We have Dream Emergency Exit.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
^ Oh well, that trope could easily absorb the "non-physical" realization variant that is Pinch Me. That would leave us with one trope for all sorts of options to get out of a dream. A lumper's paradise.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I'm fine with merging with Dream Emergency Exit.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 14th 2021 at 7:22:42 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Yay, opened! Dream Emergency Exit is my latest launch, and writing it made me wonder about Pinch Me.
I feel like DEE doesn't quite cover PM. Split into "You can wake up if it's a dream" and "It isn't if you can't", and merge the former with DEE and rename the latter with more emphasis on the dream-or-reality indication?
Edited by Momochi on Feb 16th 2021 at 2:36:38 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Why is that distinction worth splitting over? It's just two sides of the same trope to me.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I agree.
The current definition of Pinch Me is a subtrope of Epiphanic Prison, right?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I'm actually not entirely sure, but I'm leaning toward it sometimes being related. It seems to focus on actual dreams, but also says it can involve a Lotus-Eater Machine.
This is the part of the description that made me think that:
Compare Epiphanic Prison:
Edited by Twiddler on Feb 19th 2021 at 9:07:45 AM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
In that case, we can probably move the correct use of Pinch Me there (since correct usage is outnumbered by misuse, not because of the definition itself) and move misuse to Dream Emergency Exit. Pinch Me's name sounds better suited to Dream Emergency Exit than anything related to Epiphanic Prison, so I'm in favor of turning Pinch Me into a redirect to Dream Emergency Exit.
If someone comes up with a better way to handle Pinch Me's correct usage than what we have now, I'd say it could be added to the Trope Idea Salvage Yard with a note saying it's a subtrope of Epiphanic Prison.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 19th 2021 at 11:54:25 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Maybe Pinch Me could become a disambig?
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I'd be fine with that.
Actually no, "We don't have the sense of touch in a dream" is by no means a Dream Emergency Exit if you're talking about the Misused: Dream Detection wicks. And we have Slap Yourself Awake for Misused: Other. I'm fine with merging the correct use of Pinch Me.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
What's that part coming from? I'm not sure we're on the same page here.
Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 20th 2021 at 11:49:01 AM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
It's mentioned in the second-to-last paragraph of Pinch Me as the assumption it's based on.
The trope is currently used in multiple ways, and I'm wondering which concept goes where:
- (correct) You wake up when you think it's a dream. (Dream Emergency Exit? Epiphanic Prison?)
- You don't feel pain if it's a dream. (The most common misuse. Redefine to mean this?)
- You wake up if you hurt yourself in a dream. (Slap Yourself Awake?)
- Questioning/dismissing reality as a dream that doesn't later help to acknowledge the reality. (I Reject Your Reality?)
I don't think Pinch Me is the most intuitive name for "you don't feel pain in a dream", though it is more intuitive than what we have now, and it does seem to be the most common usage...
Edited by MorganWick on Feb 22nd 2021 at 7:45:47 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
See, I always took it to mean Slap Yourself Awake; that being pinched and hurt wakes the dreamer up. I never once associated it with not feeling pain in a dream- but I guess I'm the minority.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
There is also You Can See That, Right? for the stock phrase "pinch me" (tell me I am not dreaming). At least that's the closest I could find.
Doing more Pinch Me Wick Check.
Denial Of Reality sounds tropeworthy too; the closest we have seems to be Just Ignore It and Head-in-the-Sand Management. So everyone is using this trope to mean several fully-tropable cencepts?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
That name sounds too similar to I Reject Your Reality (even if it isn't the same trope; too tired to give the description a thorough look).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 25th 2021 at 7:39:50 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
And there're This Cannot Be!, Puff of Logic, A Glitch in the Matrix, Too Good to Be True, and Revealing Continuity Lapse...
Okay, the problem is that some uses Pinch Me as Dream Detection as in "Ow, so this unbelievable thing is real" and others uses it as Dismissing As A Dream (whatever name) as in "Ow, now I should be waking up from this nightmare". And neither usage is correct. Do we have a page to store examples? It's a waste to just cut them, but launching two tropes is too much for me.
Also, reading closely, I'm not sure if Slap Yourself Awake applies outside of ordinary sleep.
Crown Description:
Pinch Me's description is "When you realize you're having a dream, you wake up. If you think it's a dream but don't wake up, it's not a dream". The trope is misused to mean a number of things, including pinching to test whether one is dreaming, not believing something is occurring, or just as a stock phrase.
Pinch Me is supposed to be "You can wake up as soon as you realize that it's not real. It isn't a dream if you can't". However, most of the examples (and even the trope name) are about a character checking if they're dreaming typically by pinching themselves.
Wick check:
Edited by Momochi on Feb 20th 2021 at 3:42:27 AM