ROCEJ sinkhole removal

Probably just remove the note in parentheses.

Edited by costanton11 on Jun 30th 2021 at 10:54:34 AM

And the "loved by some and hated by others" bit that potholes to Broken Base. Reception isn't for main works pages.

I may have got a bit carried away. I went through the list and took out some more clear-cut potholes in Acronym Confusion, Couple Bomb, Dinosaurs Are Dragons, Equivalent Exchange, Fascists' Bed Time, Foreign Ruling Class, Magnetic Weapons, Maligned Mixed Marriage, Monochrome Casting, Physical Religion, Play the Game, Skip the Story, Plot Armor, Ripped from the Headlines, Single-Target Sexuality Sink The Life Boats, Skewed Priorities, Sliding Scale of Gameplay and Story Integration, Slobs Versus Snobs, Soccer-Hating Americans, Society Marches On, Sociopathic Soldier, Special Snowflake Syndrome, Spontaneous Generation, Spotlight-Stealing Squad, Stink Snub, Storming the Beaches, Streisand Effect, Super-Fun Happy Thing of Doom, Suspiciously Specific Sermon, That Liar Lies, The Chain of Harm, The Clan, The Kingslayer, The Mall, The McCoy, The Pirates Who Don't Do Anything, The Trope without a Title, They Copied It, So It Sucks!, Think of the Children!, Those Wacky Nazis, Thousand-Year Reign, Turn the Other Cheek, Uncertain Audience, What Do You Mean, It's Not Didactic?, What If?, What Measure Is a Non-Cute?, With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility, You Can Panic Now, You Cannot Kill An Idea and You Can't Thwart Stage One. I also commented out the ones in Gendered Insult, Odd Friendship, Our Presidents Are Different and These Hands Have Killed.

The wick count is now 1455: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/relatedsearch.php?term=Administrivia/RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment

I've removed the one from Dragon Ball Fighter Z's And the Fandom Rejoiced page.

I removed the ones in AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/Dream SMP, Awesome/Olympic Games, BaseBreakingCharacter/Game of Thrones, BrokenBase/Fire Emblem Fates, BrokenBase/Toonami and CareerResurrection/Music.

Overshadowed by Controversy

• ''Anime/MyHeroAcademia'': A [[DownplayedTrope downplayed]] example since the series is still very well-regarded and popular, but a vocal amount of fans will [[NeverLiveItDown never let the author live it down]] that he gave the character Endeavor a redemption arc, [[AbusiveParents despite the horrible abuse he put his wife and children through.]] Many fans found it hard to forgive him for what he did and newcomers to the series will likely be a bit turned off by Endeavor's story arc due to the heavy subject matter surrounding it. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement [[Administrivia/RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement TV Tropes will not go into full detail of the controversy,]] however it's worth noting that the controversy is [[AmericansHateTingle far bigger in the West than the East.]]

Is this the sort of ROCEJ pothole that should be removed?

It is, yes.

Also, you can't play with audience reactions.

Kinda feels like that entire example should go.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Sep 20th 2021 at 4:30:42 AM

I went through the character pages and removed potholes in Characters/Achievement Hunter, Characters/At Least there is Ceda Cedovic, Characters/Azur Lane Sakura Empire, Characters/Dr Crafty Minor Characters, Characters/Dream SMP: Technoblade, Characters/Dream SMP: The Syndicate, Characters/Dream SMP: TommyInnit, Characters/Elementary, Characters/Fire Emblem Heroes, Characters/Highschool of the Dead, Characters/League of Legends: Others, Characters/MLP Analysis, Characters/Persona 3: S.E.E.S., Characters/SOSchip, Characters/Spider-Man (PS4) - Supporting Cast, Characters/Star Wars - Mandalore, Characters/Stranger Things The Party, Characters/The Prayer Warriors, Characters/Transformers Generation 1 - Autobots - 1984 To 1986 and Characters/War Thunder.

I chipped away at a few.

Sorry for the double post but I found this:

After this entry on DorkAge.Film

• In the mainstream media, The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones were polarized in how they were received, and even the much more acclaimed Revenge of the Sith was divisive. It was only when Star Wars: The Clone Wars re-established a cool factor that the franchise has managed to recover. With Disney's purchase of Lucasfilm, the trend continued, with Rebels, The Force Awakens, and Rogue One all being commercial and critical successes. The divisive nature of both The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker and the box office under-performance of Solo combined with friction between Lucasfilm and the fanbase have created concern of another one. Disney/LFL appear to be acknowledging this, as they have officially put further cinematic installments of the franchise on hold to focus on streaming series like ''The Mandalorian.

There's this commented out note:

DO NOT ELABORATE - Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment - DO NOT ELABORATE

Is thus a valid use, since this is more about reception of media, rather than controversial political or societal views?

ROCEJ can be used to refer to any controversial subject, but I'm unsure if commented out notes are bad like potholes are.

For what it's worth, some of the use of ROCEJ, I've seen refers to fandom disputes over certain fictional media, which seems to me like an attempt to insert things like Broken Base without adhering to the requirements of that trope.

ROCEJ isn't a trope with requirements like Broken Base, it's a warning/guideline about anything that could cause a Flame War. Fandom wars definitely pose a risk of that.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 31st 2021 at 5:36:32 AM

I meant it more in the sense that people seem to use it as a substitute for Broken Base or other such tropes to get around requirements like having to give both sides equal treatment for Broken Base, etc.

Edited by costanton11 on Oct 31st 2021 at 4:59:59 AM

Nobody should use it as a substitute for a trope because it's not a trope at all and should not be listed as such.

I chipped away at a few more.

Below 1,000.

I've been combing through a bunch of ROCEJ sinkholes and nixing ones that either don't relate to the text its attached to or take the form of, "And that's all we'll say about that", or something similar. I've found two on the commented-out Five-Man Band examples on the page for Heneral Luna. Obviously I don't want to de-comment it, since a lot of it consists of ZCEs, but would it make sense to remove the ROCEJ sinkholes before someone fleshes them out and de-comments them?

Update, in the time since this post, I've removed a lot of ROCEJ sinkholes and brought the count down just below the 900 mark, avoiding any examples that come up in commented-out edit notes, or ones that I'm simply unsure about.

Edited by Akriloth2160 on Dec 9th 2021 at 3:25:44 PM

Yeah it would make sense to remove sinkholes in commented-out ZCEs too

That's actually reassuring to know - when I started doing them, I initially stopped with the edit reasons, since I was worried I was making the edit reasons list rather homogenised with the same edit reason at the rate I was going at (I was even worried that I'd be suspended over it, but I do have a habit of overthinking stuff whenever I'm worried). Nevertheless, I'll be citing the thread henceforth.

A ROCEJ sinkhole shows up at the top of ShaggyDogStory/RealLife, but given the reason it's there, I think it makes more sense to comment it out rather than remove it. Any thoughts?

Edited by Akriloth2160 on Dec 13th 2021 at 9:57:08 AM

As it’s intended for the editors, not the readers, go ahead.

I've done what I can on the Creator and YMMV namespaces. Everything remaining on those namespaces should now be either a commented-out notice, a page under admin lock, or a situation I'm unsure about.

Edited by Akriloth2160 on Dec 13th 2021 at 5:35:27 PM

I started on the Useful Notes, WMG, Headscratchers and So You Want To namespaces, but I found myself hesitating on all of them. In the case of WMG and Headscratchers, those aren't necessarily trope examples, so removing them wouldn't be to the letter of the anti-sinkhole message on the ROCEJ page. But that being said, would it still make sense to remove those sinkholes?

Update, I've gone through what I can on the Useful Notes namespace.

Edited by Akriloth2160 on Dec 14th 2021 at 1:31:08 PM