Is this an example?

On Western Terrorists, V of V for Vendetta is listed under "Multiple/Unique Cases", but wouldn't he just fall under "Left-Wing Radicals", just a more heroic version? Or are all cases where the terrorists are the protagonists considered "Unique Cases"? I ask because I was going to add the main characters of the Showtime series Guerrilla, who are also clearly Left-Wing Radicals but are the heroes.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Aug 11th 2018 at 2:16:38 PM

I've long supported this idea, but I think the mods aren't really in favor.

Sailor Moon's Transformation starting the tiara creation section with a glowing spot at where a Third Eye could be, as shown in this frame...

That is Third Eye right, a possibly eye like thing, at the right spot, connected to fantastical powers?

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By a quick read of the trope, I think our definition requires a literal third eye.

- If so, then a few examples are wrong, such as:

• In The Dresden Files, Harry refers to using The Sight, which allows him to see the mystical threads and symbolic meaning behind things, as opening his Third Eye, and it's a skill/power inherent to wizards. One subplot of Storm Front involves a magical drug called ThreeEye which does the same thing, but inevitably drives the users mad because they aren't trained to handle what they're seeing, and can't turn it off.

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Can I get input on this Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane entry from Batman: Mask of the Phantasm?

• Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane: Does the Phantasm have supernatural abilities? Or is it just done with smoke grenades and other tricks? It could just be a cool costume like Batman's, but the Ghostly Glide and the No-Sell periodic immunity to bullets hint at a different explanation.

I'm inclined to call it shoehorning. There is nothing that hints at Phantasm's powers being supernatural in origin. It's just plain not addressed at all.

I don't think I've gotten an answer to this question: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13543987200A54420100&page=203#5053

What I've wanted to know is if the listed characters can qualify as Dirty Cowards.

IPP Wick Check created.

Isn't the Phantasm explicitly revealed to not be supernatural? It's just Andrea, who doesn't have any powers.

~Master Joseph

I'll take a crack at it.

For reference: as I go through these, I'm going exclusively by what you've written in your post and working with the understanding that being a Dirty Coward is a consistently displayed character trait, and one which prompts the person to unrepentantly do anything possible to save their own lives, no matter who else has to pay for it. So I'm considering anything that's given as a one-shot incident Not An Example.

• Bloodivores: Not enough to judge with. It says Ifen Cho is a murderer, but that has nothing to do with being a Dirty Coward. The pushing someone into a monster to save herself might, but I don't think one single stated moment is enough to go on.
• Akame ga Kill!: Again, being a "torturous monster" is not part of being a Dirty Coward. Of the points given, only #3 does anything to suggest she's a coward of any kind and, again, one single moment is not enough, I think, to define a person as a Dirty Coward. It's, at most, Villains Want Mercy.
• Detective Conan: Not enough to judge with, in my opinion. A desperate act to save one's own life is not, in and of itself, cowardice. Lying about it afterward may count, but there's not enough context to judge. How did they respond when outed?
• Is It Wrong To Try To Pick Up Girls In A Dungeon: This one sounds legitimate, but it would be nice to know what "Fatso's reaction when cornered by the minotaur that Ottar trained prior to his death" actually was.
• Higurashi: When They Cry: Not enough context, as written. Fleeing a guy trying to attack you with a baseball bat is a pretty reasonable reaction.
• Tales of Vesperia: Not an example, as written. This is just Villains Want Mercy. I definitely remember Cumore as a Smug Snake, but can't remember any specific acts of cowardice off the top of my head.
• Daimos: Not enough context to know why "only [shooting] harmless brahmins for the sake of medals" is cowardly (What are brahmins, what should he be shooting, and why isn't he shooting them?), hiding behind his own men or the Daimos mech sounds more in line with the trope, but maybe more detail on what, specifically prompted the No-Holds-Barred Beatdown.
• Bait 3D: Both sound like examples. There's not enough information on their personalities otherwise to make a firmer judgement, though.
• Kono Suba: This sounds in line with the trope. What was happening that made him try to offer his servants in his place to begin with?
• Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans: This sounds more like a possible entry for Complete Monster than Dirty Coward. It's just a listing of his dirty deeds done dirt cheap followed by begging for his life at the very end. Like a few others, this seems more like Villains Want Mercy.
• Porky Pig: It could be an example, as written. Running from what you know is likely an imminent explosion is not a cowardly act, in and of itself, but doing so while doing nothing to stop the kid who's setting off said explosion might be.

Overall, I think you're mistaking Dirty Coward to be "villains begging for mercy in their final moments", as opposed to "begging for mercy or throwing someone else to the wolves at the first sign of any actual danger" and are better fits for Villains Want Mercy. Granted, Villains Want Mercy is a trait of the Dirty Coward, but one does not automatically mean the other. Among other things, a Dirty Coward is not inherently a villain.

---

For myself, Trope Finder didn't pan out for me, so I was hoping to get some help figuring out what trope something like the situation below might fit. The closest I can find/think of is Got Volunteered, but that seems too narrow for this. If it's not, could I get some help working out which trope, if any, it does fit?

• Officially, Sleepless Domain's magical girls aren't required to take part in nightly patrols against monsters, nor even to register that their powers have come in. However, whatever the official line may be, there's clearly an expectation on girls to do their duty. Early in the story Zoe is bullied by a girl for not fighting while also attending the school made specifically for magical girls to accommodate their hours and whose quality, the girl says, is compensation for the risk they put themselves in. Also, when telling Undine about her past, Heartful Punch reveals her father was dead set against her fighting and "he didn't care about that being taboo or whatever."

EDIT: Re-Reading Got Volunteered, Refusal of the Call could be an option.

The example if it were for Refusal of the Call:

• In theory, there's no reason why Magical Girls of Sleepless Domain can't do this. It's repeatedly stated that they're free to choose not to fight. Registering that a girl's even gotten her powers is optional, and enough girls jump at the call that it doesn't seem to matter if a few opt out. At the same time, there's clearly an expectation on girls to do their duty. Early in the story Zoe is bullied by a girl for not fighting while also attending the school made specifically for magical girls to accommodate their hours and whose quality, the girl says, is compensation for the risk they put themselves in. Also, when telling Undine about her past, Heartful Punch reveals her father was dead set against her fighting and "he didn't care about that being taboo or whatever."

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 11th 2018 at 10:25:55 AM

Is this a subversion or something, since this was removed... Since it was listed as an aversion, it'd be a valid removal...

VideoGame.Chantelise:

But, there are colored ruins, elemental gems, and monsters, which follow color-coding for elements, like bombs, slimes, and bosses.

So would it be a subversion? Although, there's no other mages in the work, so it would actually a subversion of Color-Coded Elements, instead of Wizardry?

Edited by Malady on Aug 12th 2018 at 8:57:21 AM

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As Color-Coded Wizardry is not an Omnipresent Trope, aversions should not be listed. Cut it on that basis.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Is this an example of Diabolus ex Machina in Anime.Darling In The Franxx

With a handful of episodes left, APE are suddenly revealed to be aliens, the Klaxosaur Princess posthumously leads Squad Squadron 13 to both a convenient spaceship and a convenient warp gate to the VIRM homeworld, and Zero Two physically transforms into Strelitzia despite has her soul ripped from her body remaining on Earth. and put into Strelitzia. This is all clunky setup for Hiro and Zero to carry out a Suicide Mission which (though your mileage may vary) is not doesn't really cohesive with fit the overall narrative or tone of the show and ends with their reincarnation souls reincarnating a thousand years hence, which isn't really consistent with despite the setting.show not dabbling in the metaphysics of the afterlife at all.

Before hand nothing was going right for the heroes to be a considered a sudden tragedy. Also think it has a hint of complaining.

From Sorry to Bother You:

• Soapbox Sadie: Cash's coworker friends are all activist-types, but Squeeze in particular is a male version of this trope. It's stated that his "thing" is joining different work environments and helping to organize their workers (making him a "salt" in labor organizing parlance).

My understanding was that Soapbox Sadies are presented as annoying and usually wrongheaded, while the movie clearly sides with Squeeze and his activism. He isn't presented as annoying or preachy, he's presented as correct. Is he still an example?

DethroningMoment.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic:

• A Matter of Principals
  • I Like Robots: Alright, so my previous entry was removed for some reason, but since others have covered what I disliked about my previous choice, I'm going to add the first episode what season 8 that I had trouble sitting through the first time. So, yeah, I get that reformed Discord is supposed to be a Lovable Rogue and a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, but his behavior in this episode was just plain insufferable.
    
    So...he's jealous that Twilight picked Starlight as substitute head mare over him, and spends the entire episode causing problem after problem for Starlight, the friendship students and the school as a whole, driving Starlight closer and closer to her breaking point out of sheer frustration, and doing nothing but laughing gleefully at the chaos he causes. And that's not even it; he also preys on Starlight's insecurities over herself and Twilight's faith in her. Sure, Starlight loses her temper and blasts him with a banishment spell, but as far as I'm concerned she's entirely justified! He was at the point where he was actively endangering students, had been twisting the knife about Starlight's insecurity over her position, and had spent the entire day actively making things worse at every turn, even after she'd talked to him several times and warned him to stop.
    
    The worst moment of the entire episode, though, was the ending: Starlight apologizes to Discord, who has done nothing but be a jerkass the entire episode, claiming that she should have approached the situation like a guidance counselor, and promises to make him secondary head mare. So what exactly is the moral here? 'If your feelings are hurt or you feel bad about something, feel free to make others suffer until they relent and give you what you want?' If that's not a Family-Unfriendly Aesop, I don't know what is.
    
    Other episodes where Discord's antics have gotten out of hand at least have Discord realizing the error of his ways, other ponies calling him out for it (Fluttershy during the Smooze incident), or Discord himself getting some kind of retribution for his actions (him getting sick at the end of "Three's a Crowd"). This one trying to justify such selfish and bratty behavior just left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't hate Discord, but episodes like this really don't help his case.

Does this violate the only single moments rule? It seems to cover all Discord's behavior the episode. The fact that it's so long it's broken into multiple sections is a red flag to me. I've PM'd them about it, but if nothing comes up in three day, any objection to my editing it to focus on the listed "worst" moment?

Am I taking my cleanup of Dethroning Moments to far?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Aug 12th 2018 at 8:29:33 AM

I think it still counts. Don't think the trope cares whether the Sadie is agreed or not. Though, most Sadies are portrayed as really hammering their cause. I think all that matter is the person has a cause and they will talk about it.

If his other entry was deleted he MAY have a point and have a right to putting another moment, but there cant be TWO MOMENTS.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

I noticed this addition to Characters.Hinako Note:

• Super Drowning Skills: Needs a swim ring before going to the water.

I recall seeing in this thread that merely needing a inner tube isn't an example for SDS. Can anyone confirm?

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova

That is correct. Super Drowning Skills is about falling into water being an instant game over.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

From Characters.Accel World:

Kuroyukihime/Black Lotus:

• Ms. Fanservice: Her net avatar wears a revealing dress that shows off her cleavage, her back and part of her butt. The anime opening sequences also like to show her nude.
• Sexy Backless Outfit: Her net avatar wears an entirely backless dress.

---

So, the very presence of Absolute Cleavage would fulfill the Fanservice requirement of Sexy Backless Outfit, right? Even though it's not part of the backless part...

The sexy requirement is commented out, though, not part of the visible description currently...

Edited by Malady on Aug 13th 2018 at 12:48:44 PM

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Cited example removed. Thanks!

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova

The Fan Nickname entry on Trivia.Sonic The Hedgehog 2006 seems to be made up mostly of quotes from various Let's Players. Pretty sure those don't count, no matter how popular the LP is. Permission to cut?

There's also this Fan Nickname entry from Trivia.Knuckles Chaotix:

This is also just a quote from a YouTuber. Permission to cut, as well?

While I'm here, any chance I could get a response to this?

Edited by Primis on Aug 13th 2018 at 10:23:56 AM

I put this on VideoGame.So Uh A Spaceship Crashed In My Yard when I created the page yesterday, but now I'm not sure if it counts as Adult Fear or not, or if there's a more appropriate trope.

• Adult Fear: Played for Laughs.

Edited by Yinyang107 on Aug 13th 2018 at 12:13:32 PM

Author's Saving Throw was removed from YMMV.Star Wars Battlefront II 2017 since this trope only applies to narrative changes. Is that so, and does that mean a new production crew isn't this trope because it doesn't directly effect the in-universe setting?

So, does this entry from the Pokemon page of Franchise Original Sin count as one?

• Game Freak not being particularly good at Competitive Balance has been pretty obvious right from the beginning; the first Pokémon games are probably the least-balanced in the entire series (Mewtwo was literally uncounterable, Psychic and Normal were hilariously overpowered, and all but about fifteen of the original 151 were overshadowed or useless). This was seen as alright in the first generations because competitive battling and balance were nowhere near important considerations - most of the fanbase was too young to care, and the hardware was running on a Game Boy, meaning corners had to get cut somewhere. Decades later, this is far less forgivable, as Game Freak has made clear efforts with Competitive Balance in mind (nerfing some types or moves and buffing others, for instance) and hundreds of major tournaments have taken place - and yet Power Creep, Fake Balance, Purposefully Overpowered mons, and unrecognized Game Breakers continue to run rampant, to the point of multiple major tournaments seeing their top rankings being stormed by near-identical teams.

Idiosyncratic Episode Naming needs refer to parts of a work, right? So, the Astronomy, Software, and Sport sections don't count?

Maybe Theme Naming?

... I think I've brought this up before...

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