During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lizzid people!
You know, you were fine with both Star Trek Federation quotes when I proposed them, ACW.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Guilty as charged. But I think the criteria were a lot less stringent. Hell, the Bonhart and Daun quotes I think I added myself.
@ The second Johnston Coffin quote: I actually added that one, the reason being that it very strongly implies that he's deliberately trying to get the children he's assigned to "fix" killed, and thus he can't even claim to be a Well-Intentioned Extremist. I can see why it might be cut-worthy, just thought you'd like to know my rationale.
A year ago I wrote here https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1532 an effort post about Thanos the Big Bad of Lanfeust of Troy. I said I was going to recap his actions in the Sequel Series Lanfeust of The Stars but since then, Thanos has been approved by this thread. Better late than never, I'm doing it now.
Lanfeust of The Stars is basically Lanfeust in space. Well the series is considered by many, including myself, to be far inferior to the previous series because of a confusing story, lame humour and Reference Overdosed. I hope you'll forgive me if my post isn't as elaborated as my previous one. Also I apologize for my mediocre english.
Who is he?
Thanos was the Big Bad of Lanfeust of Troy. Like Lanfeust he has the ultimate power and he used it to conquers Troy. If you want to know all the atrocities he committed then read here https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1532. After his defeat, Lanfeust had all his powers stripped and locked him in a cell in Eckmul.
The series starts with the reveal that the world of Troy is actually a colony from a galactic federation lead by the Prince Delhuu who wanted to create superpowered men. Lanfeust and Thanos happen to be the most successful subjects of the “experience” so the female agent Glace (“ice” in french) who works for Delhuu is sent to retrieve both of them. Glace can disable Thanos' powers with her tonic cave (“crypte tonique” in french).
What does he do?
Nothing interesting in the first half where he suffers some severe Villain Decay, is Demoted to Dragon and is mostly played for laughs though he's still unrepentant for all his crimes.
One Two Troy: After visiting the Magohamot, Thanos tries to kill Lanfeust but fortunately Glace disables his powers. Later when he temporally recovers his power, he attempts to kill him again but fails again and ends up losing an eye.
The Towers of Meirrion: Glace and Thanos become Friends with Benefits after she promised him a “life of adventures,wealth ...and power”. Our heroes learn that Delhuu is actually a shapeshifter from an thought to be extinct race who Killed And Replaced the real Prince. Thanos and Glace now Co Dragon to Delhuu have the mission to capture Lanfeust and his friends. Delhuu gives him an artificial eye replacing the one he lost in the previous book.
The Sands of Abraxar: A woman informs Delhuu the localization of the rebels' base, the Planet Abraxar, where Lanfeust and co are hiding. Delhuu orders Thanos and Glace to “clean up” the planet which Thanos gleefully accepts. Lanfeust interupts him as he's about to kill everyone with his power and activates his tonic cave so Thanos no longer can use his magic.
The Drinkers of Worlds: The plot of this book and the next one is all about Lanfeust stranded in the past so Thanos barely appears. Still he brainwashes Hébus the Troll and forces him to fight Cixi while Hébus tearfully tries his best to resist. After it fails, Thanos attempts to burn Cixi with a flamethrower.
The Ride of the Bacteria: Thanos doesn't appear at all. After some whacky adventures in the past, Lanfeust reunites with Cixi but unfortunately the time travel was inaccurate and came back to an aged Cixi and a son who's sixteen.
The Pirates Cry: From now, Thanos is once again a serious threat. During Lanfeust's sixteen years of absence, he became a Space Pirate and with Hébus renamed “The Massacror”, he reguraly assaults ships. We have a nice Kick the Dog during one of such pillage, after he exterminated everyone but a woman.
- Thanos: All your defensers are dead now. You're not dangerous and you might help me to appease my stress.
woman: Anything... Anything you want!
Thanos: Thank you. Killing relieves me a lot!
- stabs her and paints his face with her blood*
The Secret of the Dolphantes: The album shows Thanos as his worst since the original series. We learn that he had been addicted to a drug named Toxine which induces urge to kill. He kills one of his servant right in front of Glin and tells him he hopes Glin too will understand how good it feels to murders. He corrupts the boy with prostitutes and wine before giving him some Toxine. Glin kills one unwilling maid. Thanos congratulates him and tells him he's now his new father (of course, his inner thoughts reveal that he actually see Glin as a moron). Lanfeust and co reach the lair but Glinn refuses to leave. Lanfeust fights Thanos once again. Do you remember Thanos' artificial eye that Delhuu gave to him in book 2? It turns out to be actually a living part of Delhuu himself and it enters Lanfeust's trachea asphixiating him. A big Ass Pull but still, Thanos relishes in watching his ennemy dying from an slow an painful death. Hébus saves Lanfeust with a tracheotomy. Oh and during all of this, Glinn was rooting for Thanos and Hébus had to stun him before leaving planet. Note, in this book, it's revealed that Thanos's ship, the Al Blattor, is a living creature who evolves into five stages of evolution and is currently at his fourth. It's going to be important latter.
The Blood of Comet: Delhuu orders the destruction of Thanos' ship now that he outlived his usefullness. The pirate escapes, murders a taxi man and goes to Delhu's palace. The latter, for some reason, instead of killing him, sucks his mind into himself. Now there's another confusing Ass Pull but the short version is that Thanos somehow manages to take control of Delhuu's body, kills him and regains his powers back. Now impersonating Delhu, the unic Prince, he wants to conquer the galaxy. Phew! Now comes the incredibly anticlimatic final battle. During a televised interview, Lanfeust and Co shoot eggs with the bacteria Gawlax (basically the Kryptonic Factor of Pathacelles) at Thanos who then retreats to his ship and merges with it. Do you remember the five stages of evolution of the Al Blattor? Thanos evolves into the ultimate stage which is... a return to lava form. Lanfeust grabs him and squeezes him in his hand. I'm not making this up, that's literally how a Big Bad who lasted 16 books die.
Is he heinious by the standards of the story?
The only villain close to his heiniousness is Prince Delhuu the Big Bad who's also a Bad Boss and plans to commit galactic genocide with his army of Pathacelles but for most of the series, he's an Orcus on His Throne who gives orders while Thanos does all the work. Also he has a Freudian Excuse (He's the surviving member of an alien specie that was exterminated) while Thanos has none.
Redeeming features?
Nope. As for moral agency, I mentionned that after the Time Skip he became addicted to a substance that gives him urges to kill but he was already a murderous brute even before.
Verdict
Despite being pathetic in the first half of the series, he's still unrepentant for his numerous atrocities and still acts in his self interrest. After the time skip, Thanos becomes a serious threat again. His motivations is still the same as the first series: becoming all powerful but this time on a larger scale. With the cold murder of a woman who was in love with him and the brainwashing of a teenage boy, he arguably tops himself. As far I'm concerned Thanos qualifies as a complete monster for both Lanfeust of Troy and Lanfeust of the Stars. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
edited 4th Jul '16 3:08:43 PM by Silverblade2
If you refuse I will kill all of your friends! I'll grind them up, squeeze out their blood and drown you in it!" —King Hamdo, Now and Then, Here and There •Refuse to WHAT?
Who cares? All that matters is what he will do if they refuse.
"I am eternal, child. I am the eater of worlds, and of children! And you are NEXT!" —It •Eh, not terrible, but not feeling it too much.
Dude, "eater of worlds, and of children".
jjj
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Fair enough. Those two can stay. As for Coffin's second quote, it relies just a LITTLE too much, IMHO, on implication (his first one's great though). to Thanos again (what an Anticlimax Boss though).
edited 4th Jul '16 2:42:26 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
for Thanos.
My bad; I forgot to put an effort post. I deserve a dope slap.
Baitfish on NCIS: New Orleans
Who Is He?
"Baitfish" is the alias for Paul Jenks, a former member of the Broussard Syndicate and Pride's confidential informant while he was still a Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office Deputy. Thanks to him, he has secured the convictions of other members of the Broussard Syndicate.
What Has He Done?
Due to Jenks's status as an informant, Pride had to turn a blind eye in terms of his criminal activities. Prior to the show's start, he kills a child during a home invasion. In his first episode, he bombs City Park in an attempt to kill Pride as well as his daughter. He frames his cousin Frank Broussard for the bombing, then he kills LaSale's girlfriend simply for being his girlfriend. While Pride and his team are investigating her death, Baitfish opens fire on them, killing 2 NOPD officers and critically wounding 4 more. He kidnaps ATF Agent Sonja Percy and leaves her to bleed to death, just to spite Pride.
Heinous by the Show's Standards?
We're only two seasons in, and neither Zed nor Russo have been up to par with Baitfish. Within the JAG-verse standards, however, Baitfish seems pretty tame compared to Daniel Budd or The Chameleon. Bent on building his own criminal empire off the fallen Broussard Syndicate, he will kill anyone who gets in his way as well as anyone who calls him by his first name.
Redeeming Features or Freudian Excuse?
He takes no action to redeem himself, and he says he committed those crimes was in order to earn Pride's "respect" and "acknowledgement".
Verdict
With no respect for the law or life, killing multiple people and getting only five years of prison time thanks to a deal with the US Attorney General, it's no wonder Pride was so obsessed with apprehending Baitfish before he could further tarnish the reputation of New Orleans.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Is he still alive? If so, I say wait and see; if not, I'll abstain, as he...doesn't appear too especially heinous compared to the other NCIS monsters.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
"Lanfeust grabs him and squeezes him in his hand."
-headdesk-
Thanos, despite his ignominious death.
Baitfish too I suppose. Not exactly as heinous as Budd or Chameleon, but sounds like he didn't have as many resources either.
Wild Child
Thanos.
Baitfish? Didn't we have another character with a similar name recently?
You don't say. -_- Thought the original series isn't a masterpiece, it ended with Thanos and Lanfeust turning into giants and having a swordfight. That's how bad the Seasonal Rot is.
Baitfish
edited 4th Jul '16 4:27:59 PM by Silverblade2
Yes to Thanos. I can only imagine in my head the other Thanos getting a send-off that pathetic.
edited 4th Jul '16 4:16:33 PM by Scraggle
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hopefully the MCU doesn't fail.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
for Thanos and and a tentative for Baitfish
edited 4th Jul '16 4:23:20 PM by G-Editor
Undecided on "Baitfish" - I feel like we've had an awful lot of villains proposed from this series. As noted earlier, the heinousness standard for these episodic crime shows can be tough to figure out.
Man, is his alias hilarious, though.
edited 4th Jul '16 4:23:43 PM by nrjxll
Wild Child
Tentative to Baitfish.
You know I just finish watching all of Durarara x2 and I have to say this, I believe Izumi Ran should be cut due to failing the heinous standard set in the show with many other characters exceeding him in the heinous standard.
1. While he was an abusive brother to Aoba but so was Izaya Orihara who even told his sister to go kill themselves because they have no meaning. Plus he was also an Unwitting Pawn to Izaya. Given that plus everything else Izaya did make him far more heinous than Izumi.
2. Izumi did break a woman's legs and has threaten another woman with rape, another person Takashi Nasujima did something similar putting an innocent bystander into a coma by running him with a truck and promising to rape another girl, right in front of her father. With that Takashi exceed Izumi in heinousness as well.
3. There is also mention that one of the supporting main characters Ruri Hijiribe of the season a popstar, is a brutal Serial Killer called Hollywood. (Before anyone ask NO she doesn't count due to having a militating factor as well as rather appropriate Freudian Excuse.
4. Izumi also seems to have some genuine and rather twisted respect for Mikado Ryugamine one of the main characters of the anime.
With all these reasons listed, its why I think Izumi Ran should be cut. Sure he is an real asshole but I don't think he is Complete Monster material. That is my opinion generally, what about you guys?
edited 4th Jul '16 8:08:16 PM by G-Editor
I think we can cut Izumi without much hesitation.
Wild Child
Cut Izumi.
Why so serious?![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Izumi
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, for quotes, here are the ones I think should be cut. Webcomics and Fan Works look fine. Now, as to why I think one quote should be cut while another similar one should stay? Well, it's somewhat arbitrary, admittedly
. That's why I won't actually cut any until Saturday the earliest.
AniManga:
Comics:
Film
Paul Rusesabagina: You cannot seriously think that you can kill them all.
Georges Rutaganda: And why not ? Why not ? We are halfway there already.
Frank: People scare better when they're dying.
Literature
Video Games
Volgin: Perhaps he was being used by someone else.
Ocelot: Perhaps? This man was our comrade!
Volgin: Comrade or not, he is of no use to us now.
Ocelot: I don't approve of your methods!
Volgin: I don't need your approval. I'm in command here.
Western Animation
Sedessa: *scoffs* Negotiate? With these savages? Don't be so naive. Jhamora is ours for the taking, dear brother. Have the courage to finish what I started.
King Zahn: You have disgraced our family. You have killed innocents, sent young soldiers to die. You have ensured that my daughter will grow up in a world in which peace can never be taken for granted. You are no longer a member of the royal family, no longer my sister.
Other Media
edited 8th Jul '16 7:36:25 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts