#152: Apr 2nd 2021 at 3:47:09 AM
Nevermind, I actually found the time both for that trope and for Me Too!. If someone wants to use the former wicks ... I have saved it in the history of Me Too!.
Going back to the Sandbox.Orwellian Rewrite, if it's already covered by Internal Retcon and Cosmic Retcon perhaps we ought to simply move examples to these tropes?
Also still wondering whether to launch Sandbox.Internet Jerk (optionally, we can merge GIFT later into the trope) and whether anyone wants to make a Mediator trope.
Edited by SeptimusHeap on Apr 2nd 2021 at 1:56:51 PM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
#153: Apr 3rd 2021 at 3:53:08 AM
Hmm... Actually, reading through Internal Retcon, I'm inclined to agree that it seems to be pretty much the same as Orwellian Rewrite.
Cosmic Retcon, I think, is a different thing: it seems to be describing an actual change to the canon of the work, just implemented internally, where Internal Retcon is about changing internal records of what happened. In the former, in-universe records might still reflect the original canon, theoretically, while in the latter, canon and the narrative might belie the new records.
My Games & Writing
Tabs
Since: Jan, 2001
#154: Apr 7th 2021 at 8:23:45 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Hm. The 1984 example is even the page quote for Internal Retcon. Maybe expand the "authority figure" paragraph to cover examples in the sandbox not about authority figures.
#155: Apr 7th 2021 at 12:56:44 PM
One could make the argument that there's a different narrative impact to a ruler exerting their power to explicitly rewrite history than to a scholar doing the same in secret.
But is that enough of a difference that it justifies separate tropes? I'm not sure.
Come to that, it might not even be important: the two different cases might be modelled as a single "rewriting history" trope combined with two separate tropes covering the positions and authority of the characters.
My Games & Writing
Tabs
Since: Jan, 2001
#156: Apr 7th 2021 at 1:31:02 PM
Combining would solve the issue of examples of either trope being vague about whether it was authority who performed the purge/rewrite, or if the scholars who did it were actually under orders from authority, or if those responsible were the winners who wanted to glorify themselves... (or even if they were writing wishful alternate history fiction and theirs was the only record that survived?)
#157: Apr 8th 2021 at 4:53:24 AM
Well, I am seeing some support for using Internal Retcon here. I agree that "authority figure or not" isn't a trope distinction; the scholar has to have the credibility to successfully pull it off - otherwise they'll just be dismissed as a crank - and that's as good as power.
So I am thinking we might be ready to go with Internal Retcon and Cosmic Retcon as items on an Orwellian Editor disambiguation (plus Forum Speak).
That only leaves Mediator and Sandbox.Internet Jerk. I am inclined to put the former in the TLP Salvage Yard and launch the latter, followed by a TRS to merge GIFT into it as Sandbox.GIFT Wicks says that many links are just "jerk on the Internet".
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
#158: Apr 9th 2021 at 9:01:36 AM
All of that sounds good to me! ^_^
How sweet it is
#159: Apr 9th 2021 at 9:40:42 AM
Sounds good. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
#160: Apr 9th 2021 at 3:21:41 PM
Orwellian Retcon is done, but it's late evening here so punting the other tropes to tomorrow.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GastonRabbit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#161: Apr 9th 2021 at 10:56:28 PM
#162: Apr 10th 2021 at 1:15:02 PM
Internet Tough Guy and Mediator are also done. Writing up new TRS for GIFT and Wiki Tropes as we speak, but I'll close this as "done" after I am finished typing this.
For posterity, the examples of Mediator are here:
Forum Pecking Order
* Regulars: The bread-and-butter of a forum, and usually the most concerned with whatever topic the forum is ostensibly about. They hold debates, chat about OTPs, wonder what the deal was with the silent guy in episode 13 and greet/assess the Newbies. They'll also start Shipping Wars and occasionally flame each other, so watch out. They're the most active group, and the most closely watched by the Mods. Because they're the mainstay of the forum, they tend to define its tone and interests. Some Regulars may have been on the forum longer than some of the Old Guard, but due to lower post count aren't as well-known or popular.** Who's here?: Just about every personality type, but a few stand out: the Mediator, the Single-Issue Wonk, and the Left-Fielder in particular. Subgroups include the Die for Our Ship. A proto-version of The Shepherd often occupies this space:SEMICOLON: always nice to Newbies, but lacks the clout to challenge the Old Guard.
No Points For Neutrality
* Fallout:** Fallout's one-dimensional meter (positive is good, negative is bad) means that if you're neutral, no matter how much you've done, people will act like they've never heard of you.** Unintentionally averted in Fallout 3, where the karma meter has such a minuscule effect on game play that the player can pretty much do as he pleases with little penalty. There's one perk called "Impartial Mediator" which gives you a substantial Speech bonus as long as you retain neutral karma, presumably reflecting that most such players are fond of the "make everyone talk through their problems" solution, but it's not much compared to the bonuses of going to one extreme or the other. Two companions, Butch and RL-3, can only be recruited if you have neutral karma. Quest paths and rewards do often go by the good vs. evil choices, which is a shame, although there's often an option to take a slight reduction in good karma in return for taking a material reward.** In Fallout: New Vegas, the karma meter has virtually no effect on any part of the game until the ending, as your reputation with various factions is far more important. Morality is essentially replaced by ideology, and the way that the whole system is set up makes it impossible to take a neutral stance. The Courier's good and bad deeds towards each faction are tracked separately, so doing equal parts good and ill to a faction won't balance out to neutral, but to "unpredictable loon", and the Courer will be treated as such. By the end of the game, whatever you have done up to that point has been done for the sake of a cause.
Pintsized Powerhouse
* Battletech:** The Clans fielded technology so beyond the Inner Sphere's that any Clan 'mech during the Invasion Era is generally speaking the equivalent of an Inner Sphere 'mech 20 tonnes heavier. One of the perhaps best known (and feared) examples is the 35-ton Adder light 'mech, whose twin Clantech ER PPCs provides it with firepower equivalent to the 80-ton Inner Sphere Awesome assault 'mech.** The Terran Hegemony was this in the lore's backstory. It possessed a meagre 95 worlds compared to the five Great Houses' hundreds of worlds each and therefore appeared as a tiny dot in the middle of five large realms on maps of the Inner Sphere. However, the Hegemony's worlds were the ones first colonised by humanity as opposed to the much-later colonised ones held by the Great Houses, giving the Hegemony a population and industrial base equal to several of the Great Houses combined and the best universities and development labs in the Inner Sphere. The Hegemony would leverage their technological and industrial might to serve as Mediator between the Great Houses, eventually leading to the formation of Star League under the Hegemony's control.
With Friends Like These
* In Homestuck, the trolls, coming from a race of jerkasses, often bitterly bicker and fight with one another. In most cases, it's simply how they interact, and in the end they'll work together. In others, not so much.** The entire point of the trolls' Ashen and Caliginous quadrants, A.K.A blackrom romance, a relation based off mediation and Foe Yay respectively.
Characters/Battletech Inner Sphere
* Mediator: His mother's Strategy of Aggressive Peacemaking policies were the foundation of his own future policies, and through diplomacy he managed to unite the Inner Sphere states into the Star League. All that went straight out the window after the Periphery decided they didn't want to be a part of his grand dream, and so he decided they were going to be a part of it whether they liked it or not.
Characters/Battletech Inner Sphere
* Mediator: Throughout much of its history the Terran Hegemony played the role of peacemaker between the rest of the Inner Sphere states, to varying success. Enforced after Deborah Cameron assumed the office of Director-General. With her 'Strategy of Aggressive Peacemaking,' she relegated the military to a purely defensive role and made it her mission to ensure that the destructive effects of the Age of War are never felt again. Her strategy served as an adequate counter to the Ares Conventions.
Characters/Battletech NG Os And Others
* Mediator: The role of the MRB (Mercenary Review Board), ensuring neither client nor mercenary backstabs the other on pain of censure by ComStar. Considering the importance of not pissing off ComStar in the Battletech-verse, this tends to work out fine for everyone. It was later replaced by the Wolf's Dragoons' MRBC (Mecenary Review and Bonding Commission), which filled the same role, though backed by the Wolf's Dragoons' political and military clout. Mercenary units on the outs with the Dragoons would essentially find it impossible to find work:SEMICOLON: employers on the outs with the Dragoons would essentially find it impossible to hire mercenaries.
Characters/Crazy Taxi
* Mediator: His most redeeming quality, he's a gifted mediator when there's trouble among his many friends.
Characters/Dangan Ronpa The Courage Of Hope And The Strength Of Despair
* Mediator: Exactly what she tried to do during the Tsubasa-Yevan conflict.
Characters/Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy Warriors Of Cosmos
* Mediator: Tries to play the role of negotiator between Tidus and Jecht. It defuses somewhat, but The Emperor doesn't want Tidus not to fight. It leads to Jecht saving Tidus, becoming a Warrior of Chaos due to it. Thus, her attempt at mediating the two causes their fighting in Dissidia.
Characters/Drowtales Val Sullisin Rune Clan
* Mediator: Per concept art, she tries to be this.
Characters/Forest Of Despair
!!!Ultimate Mediator Ringleader
Characters/Forest Of Despair
->:SEMICOLON:"Name's Akita Yamazaki. Ultimate Mediator at your service. I guess I've been promoted to the protagonist of this story. Now that's something I wasn't expecting."
Characters/Forest Of Despair
The protagonist and narrator. She has given the title of Ultimate Mediator by looking at various gangs and businesses in Japan. Akita is quite jaded to the world but still has a sense of humor.
Characters/Forest Of Despair
* Dark and Troubled Past: In the prologue alone, it is revealed that Akita has been tortured and had a teacher she was close to dying. Then there are all the hints...** To clarify... From what we know from canon, Akita was born into a loving household and grew up with her cousin, Hideyoshi, and Childhood Friend Takayuki. Somewhere between all of the events, Akita's teacher, Nicole, died from cancer. Then something happens to Hideyoshi and he kidnaps her where he forces Akita to rip out her own fingernails, whether or not this is where she lost her hands is debatable. Then Word of God states that Hideyoshi actually raped Akita as well. For some reason, there are multiple versions of Akita, possibly to recover from this trauma. One of these versions works for Matoko Kirigiri in the Future Foundation, while the main personality is teamed up with Takayuki. Possibly Akita felt in despair during these events, since she is shown to be sane with Matoko, and then her memories possibly wiped. The Committee also gives her a fake Ultimate talent during all of this, Mediator. Then Kazuhiko, figuring all of this out, makes an article about Akita, destroying their relationship forever. And then she gets forced into a Killing Game where she's the first to die. Overall, it is not fun to be Akita.
Characters/Forest Of Despair
* Mediator: Subverted. What Akita is supposed to be doing but decides not to. Averted. The first Monokuma File refers to Chiyo Jinya as the Ultimate Mediator, leaving Akita's true Ultimate unknown. That is until it's revealed to be the Ultimate Ringleader... which she made up. Yes, the real Akita Yamazaki isn't even an Ultimate.
Characters/Forest Of Despair
* Mysterious Past: She is the protag, yet there are still many questions. How did she get that scar? Why is she so mad at Kazuhiko? What is her deal with Hideyoshi? And how does Ms. Torr have anything to do with the Killing Game? For added mystery, why is she the Ultimate Mediator when she doesn't even do her job and apparently has split personalities?
Characters/Forest Of Despair
->:SEMICOLON:If it isn't Akita Yamazaki. Hello there, Ultimate Mediator, I'm Kazuhiko Hiraoka, The Ultimate Journalist. You might remember me interviewing you a while back. Well well well, this is going to make for an interesting article. Wouldn't you say?"
Characters/Homestuck Trolls General
* Love Dodecahedron: Almost inevitable thanks to the extremely complicated, polygamous, four-part system of the troll species' romantic interaction, which covers everything from conventional romantic love to arch-rivalry, close friendship, and mediation between two parties.
Characters/Homestuck Trolls General
* Mediator: How auspistices, otherwise known as the "Ashen" quadrant, works. Their role is to play the role of mediator between two kismesitude partners that would harm their relationship with others if they pursued it. It's unusual compared to all the other romances on account of it being a feeling that is usually not shared with its partners, but instead a solitary troll often feels this way towards a pairing that is already together or on the cusp of being together. Although in some cases, this can be the case of one troll wanting another to "ashen" for their kismesitude to keep it from getting out of control. It is also occasionally treated as a job, despite it being a romantic feeling trolls experience. Example: Kanaya, who is noted to experience ashen feelings quite often, says it is a rather emotionally unfulfilling quadrant to fill but feels strong urges to mediate regardless.
Characters/Homestuck Trolls Two
* Mediator: Ends up biting her in the butt as Vriska doesn't see her affection.
Characters/Hunger Games Simulation Troper No 9001
* Vriska Serket (Seasons 13, 75note , 156* , 192* , and 236* )** The Rival: With Swedenball in Season 75, whom she might or might not have developed a hatecrush on. It didn't end well for her.** Sweetie Graffiti: How she asked Mike Pence out to be her auspistice for her and Tavros's vacillating romance in Season 192.** Together in Death: Died with her matesprit/kismesis Tavros at the hands of Mike Shinoda in Season 192.** Took a Level in Badass: From being killed off early in Season 13 to nearly snagging a podium finish in Season 75.
Characters/Kakegurui
* Mediator: Her family's specialty. In the past she specializes in diffusing the problems arising from her clan families by finding out the best ways to make everybody satisfied from her arrangement. In the Student Election Arc, she puts her talents to good use for her ends.
Characters/Mage The Ascension
* Mediator: Post-Avatar Storm, the Progenitors see themselves overall as this— they feel that they've won, more or less, the Ascension War, and now they have to treat the problems (the in-fighting, the wounds of the Storm) of the Technocracy itself.
Characters/Mage Winds And Mage Storms
* Mediator: Tries to be this, and it's not for lack of trying when he fails.
Characters/Norse Mythology
* Mediator: He apparently acts as this to disagreeing parties, as it's mentioned that no one who leaves his hall leaves dissatisfied.
Characters/Polandball Asian Nations
* Mediator: Is firmly on the side of the Gulf Nations lead by Saudi, but has to sort out their own feuds.
Characters/Polandball Asian Nations
* Only Sane Man: Counts as this both amongst the Middle East and the Saudi-led Gulf Nations. Apart from the Iraqi invasion in the Gulf War, he has been doing well for himself (as evidenced by his Arab Oil Sheikh status) and is a Mediator among the aforementioned Gulf nations.
Characters/Rune Factory 2
* Mediator: Acts as the peacemaker in his household due to his mother and sister's fighting.
Characters/Senran Kagura New Wave
* Mediator: She's tries her best to resolve any conflict in her group. Mostly with Misato and Kumi.** Threatening Mediator: If there arguing goes on for too long, however, then she'll go berserk.
Characters/Shadow The Hedgehog 2 The Revenge Of Maria
* Mediator: Breaks up most fights between Sonic and Shadow.
Characters/Street Fighter EX
* Badass Family: With Hokuto and Kairi.** Big, Screwed-Up Family: Not that any of the three can help it, for varying reasons. Poor Nanase is stuck in the middle.
Characters/Suikoden II
* Mediator: During the Dunan Unification War, she tried to assemble the different states within Jowston to help with the opposing of the Highland Army. However, it was not a success because of the conflicts between the leaders of the states who did not wanted to cooperate.
Characters/Suikoden II
* Mediator: He is the plenipotentiary for Two River and represents the Human, Kobold and Winger districts within Two River.
Characters/Suikoden V Sol Falena
* Mediator: His thankless job is to mediate between the factions on Lelcar and their disagreeing leaders, Orok and Volga.
Characters/TFS At The Table
* Mediator: Riel states that he runs a sect that helps balance people physically and emotionally. His personality is also quite calm and measured.
Characters/TFS At The Table Natural Oneders Player Characters
* The Captain: The de jure leader of the One-ders, by virtue of being The Face and a good Mediator, though often defers to Wake's advice in most important matters and generally listens to the concerns and ideas of the others. His Character development on the other hand has also forced him to be more of an authority figure when egos rise.
Characters/TFS At The Table Natural Oneders Player Characters
* Mediator: Works for this between Wake and the pirates in Episode 6, frequently talking them down before tensions rise. He's taken on this role more and more since becoming captain of the Yeldin.
Characters/The Death Gate Cycle
* Mediator (again, too smart to see anything but the truth. This comes in handy late in the series: a time comes when the Sartan could use a leader who will broker a peace with the Patryn...)
Characters/The Kane Chronicles
* Mediator: Balances the conflicts between order and chaos.
Characters/The King Of Fighters Maximum Impact
* Mediator: For the Meira brothers.
Characters/The King Of Fighters The Rugal Saga 01
* Mediator: Daimon was originally an unwitting one to Kyo and Benimaru.
Characters/The Secret Of NIMH
* Mediator: When Martin argues with Auntie Shrew, she tries to make peace between them.
Characters/The Wall Will Fall
* Mediator
Characters/The Wall Will Fall
* Mediator
Characters/The Wall Will Fall
* Mediator: She often is the one to intervene and make sense out of arguments flowing among the metaguards.
Characters/The Wheel Of Time The White Tower
* Grey Ajah: An organization consisting solely of Mediators, Grays spend a lot of time in politics, helping to smooth over ruffled feathers and raw tempers. Any time a major treaty happens or someone backs down from a war, you can expect a Gray to have been involved. Also have their ranks filled with lawyers.
Characters/Tokyo Seventh Sisters
* Mediator
Characters/Tutenstein
* Mediator: Mediated the struggles between Horus and Set to ensure neither became too powerful, and to bring their violent conflict to an end.
Characters/Valdis Story Abyssal City
* Mediator: Acts as one for the crew, as he's able to help the conflicting Humans, Angels, and Demons get along within their group.
Comic Book/Raven
Dino Attack RPG/Tropes M To R
* Mediator: Rex, Dr. Pierce, and Dr. Saran.
Fanfic/GG Kronos But I Have Foresight
* Mediator: Poseidon acts as this for his two Big Three brothers in the prologue, when Hades gets angry at Zeus.
Film/Night Of The Living Dead 1968
* Mediator: Tom attempts to be one between Ben and Cooper a couple times, with little success.
Literature/Tales From The Mos Eisley Cantina
* Mediator: Moisture farmer Ariq Joanson serves as a non-internet examples. His arc is attempting to broker a truce between the Tusken raiders, the Jawas, and the moisture farmers in order to end the threat of raids and chaos in the region. the Empire likes things just the way they are and sabotage his efforts.
Pantheon/Facial Attributes
* Portfolio: The Archmage, Bookworm, God of the Moon, Maintaining Cosmic Balance, Badass Bookworm, Spell Book, Associated With Baboons And/Or Having An Ibis Head, Mediator, The Smart Guy
Pantheon/Organizations
Pantheon/Organizations
Pantheon/Romantic Interest
* The four kinds of troll love are:** Matespritship ("Flushed Quadrant", [[color:red:&:SEMICOLON:#9829:SEMICOLON:]]): Conventional romantic love.** Kismesis ("Caliginous Quadrant", &:SEMICOLON:#9824:SEMICOLON:): Mutual hate that, somehow, leads to procreation in the same manner as matespritship.** Moirallegiance ("Pale Quadrant", [[color:pink:&:SEMICOLON:#9830:SEMICOLON:]]): Two trolls temper each others' attributes.** Auspistice ("Ashen Quadrant", [[color:gray:&:SEMICOLON:#9827:SEMICOLON:]]): This occurs when a third troll is introduced into a kismesis to stabilize the relationship so as to prevent kismeses from killing each other and destabilizing the social order.
Sand Box/GUAE Red Zeon High Command
Zechs Merquise, Great Herald of The Red Comet, Chief Mediator of the GUAE Mecha Cohort, Leader of the OZ Contingent and Commander-in-Chief of the Fourth Fleet (The Lightning Count, Rent-a-Char, Zechs Marquise, Prince Milliardo Peacecraft)
Sandbox/Mysticremnant
* The four kinds of troll love are:** Matespritship ("Flushed Quadrant", [[color:red:&:SEMICOLON:#9829:SEMICOLON:]]): Conventional romantic love.** Kismesis ("Caliginous Quadrant", &:SEMICOLON:#9824:SEMICOLON:): Mutual hate that, somehow, leads to procreation in the same manner as matespritship.** Moirallegiance ("Pale Quadrant", [[color:pink:&:SEMICOLON:#9830:SEMICOLON:]]): Two trolls temper each others' attributes.** Auspistice ("Ashen Quadrant", [[color:gray:&:SEMICOLON:#9827:SEMICOLON:]]): This occurs when a third troll is introduced into a kismesis to stabilize the relationship so as to prevent kismeses from killing each other and destabilizing the social order.
Sandbox/Pink Celebi
* Their society has four different types of relationships, all based on biological imperative, which must all be fulfilled for each individual to reach romantic fulfillment. Naturally, this leads to problems. The four types are:** Matespritship ("Flushed Quadrant"): Conventional romantic love. Marked with <:SEMICOLON:3 or a red hearts.** Kismesis ("Caliginous Quadrant"): Mutual hate that, somehow, leads to procreation in the same manner as matespritship. Marked with <:SEMICOLON:3<:SEMICOLON:, <:SEMICOLON:}<:SEMICOLON: or a black spades.** Moirallegiance ("Pale Quadrant"): Two trolls temper each others' attributes. Marked with <:SEMICOLON:>:SEMICOLON: or a pink diamonds.** Auspistice ("Ashen Quadrant"): This occurs when a third troll is introduced into a kismesis to stabilize the relationship so as to prevent kismeses from killing each other and destabilizing the social order. Marked with o8<:SEMICOLON:, c3<:SEMICOLON: or grey clubs.** Recently, an "upgraded" version of their system has been found
. Reactions to it have been various, from Karkat being hospitalized after he couldn't stop screaming to Nepeta showing interest.
. Reactions to it have been various, from Karkat being hospitalized after he couldn't stop screaming to Nepeta showing interest.
Video Game/Academagia
* Mediator: One of the Adventures places you in this role. Specifically, you're invited to a noble court that handles disputes, and you're given the title of the "Innocence":SEMICOLON: this is because the court's founder believed that children are untainted by the world's biases and thus are best suited to be judges. You, along with the adult judges with whom you have to share votes (though as the "Innocence", you carry a lot of sway), are asked to settle the following disputes:** A woman (the plaintiff) is accusing her boyfriend (the defendant) of cheating on her with another woman, because she saw him walking with another woman and enjoying himself. The defendant protests his innocence:SEMICOLON: he has dated no other woman but his lover. Which one of them is telling the truth? Both, sort-of. The boyfriend was getting jealous, feeling that his lover didn't appreciate him enough, so he conjured an illusion of another woman to make his lover jealous. It just backfired horribly because instead of just getting jealous, his lover assumed he was outright cheating. Since as he himself admit this was an extremely boneheaded move on his part, you can choose to rule in the plaintiff's favor, arguing that she has every right to break up with him now, but maybe they can maintain a cordial friendship. Or, now that the plaintiff knows the defendant really does love her, you can rule in the defendant's favor and argue that since he didn't cheat and really does love her, she should stay in a relationship with him.** Two men are arguing over the patents to magical spells and devices they've invented. The plaintiff is convinced that the other man stole his ideas, while the defendant (who for some bizarre reason is named Darwin, yes, after Charles Darwin) maintains that he is innocent, that the ideas were in fact his and thus, he should get the money from the products and not the plaintiff. Which one of them is telling the truth? The plaintiff is, and you eventually cause the defendant to have to hand over the profits.
Website/Flame Warriors
* Mediator: The Diplomat is noted to butt into hot disputes, presuming that the combatants will welcome and appreciate his "even-handed and eminently reasonable mediation". It's also noted that he frankly gets what he deserves, and his image is that of a guy looking comically burned.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
PageAction:
WebTropes
9th Mar '21 2:21:37 AM
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What would be the best way to fix the page?
Total posts: 162
OK, these Retcon tropes are being a little too many. Perhaps we only need Internal Retcon which already involves the Orwellian aspect.
Also, I see that I won't have much time for wick-moving so someone will have to do the Forum Pecking Order move to Useful Notes.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman