OK, opening.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanSee also Accidental Truth.
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.So, if this is a meta/writer trivia trope, not an in-universe trope, that's some serious misuse. Agree with a rename.
Some Alt suggestions: Writers Got It Right, Accidental Correct Writing, God Was Right, Writers Were Right, Surprisingly Right Writing.
edited 9th Jan '17 7:05:06 PM by pokedude10
Not to be confused with Shown Their Work.
Maybe Not Researched But Correct or Correct In Hindsight or something.
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.The line between Shown Their Work and Accidentally Accurate is slim. It depends on whether or not the writers did the research, which usually can only be confirmed by Word of God.
As for the suggested names:
- Correct In Hindsight would invite more or less the same amount of misuse, because it doesn't specify it's a writing trope.
- God Was Right could be a supertrope encompassing both Shown Their Work and Accidentally Accurate, maybe?
- Writers Got It Right could be mistaken with Shown Their Work. The same thing goes for Writers Were Right.
- Not Researched But Correct is better than the current, but I think it might still get misused for incompetent scientists In-Universe whose research happens to be right.
- My bets are Accidental Correct Writing and Surprisingly Right Writing. Or Accidentally-Correct Writing.
edited 12th Jan '17 8:22:43 AM by Gosicrystal
Because of the blurry line, I'd be more in favour of a merge than a rename. If Death of the Author is assumed, let's err on the side of complimenting them directly ("this shows they did research") instead of a backhanded compliment ("oh, they didn't screw this up"). Word of God can add additional bits of info (like "actually, I just guessed"), but I don't think it's important enough to make a subtrope.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.So you're saying that Shown Their Work and Accidentally Accurate should be merged? That's a possibility, too. Were we to merge them, the trope could be named God Was Right, Writers Got It Right or Writers Were Right. I prefer the second one.
edited 12th Jan '17 8:50:42 AM by Gosicrystal
Like.
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.Five days have passed. Does anyone else have other ideas? Do we agree on a merge?
Should probably do a crowner for that. I'm not inclined to suggest we rename the trope post-merge (I don't have a problem with Shown Their Work).
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Will set up a crowner soon. Page action, including a rename and a merge? The merge would include getting facts right by coincidence, which is definitely not Shown Their Work, so that can't be the new name.
edited 18th Jan '17 5:53:00 AM by Gosicrystal
I'd prefer Writers Got It Right.
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.I've attached the crowner and added a third option. There have been no issues raised with Shown Their Work so far. If it is healthy, there is no reason to rename it post-merge. Its status will not change.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerThe fact that Shown Their Work doesn't have misuse is completely irrelevant to what we're discussing. The point is that, if Shown Their Work is merged with Accidentally Accurate, the result will include examples of writers not doing the research but getting facts right by fluke. You can't really say they've Shown Their Work if they investigated nothing. That's why there needs to be a neutral name that encompasses both tropes: doing the research and not doing it. Hence my support for Writers Got It Right.
edited 18th Jan '17 9:47:07 AM by Gosicrystal
You want to change over 5,000 wicks for something that we have no way of knowing except for cases where they admit they didn't know anything but got lucky? That would be a waste of time and effort.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerSo is there going to be any trope for in-universe Accidentally Accurate? Like if a character gets asked a question and they give a random answer that just happens to be right? That feels more like a trope than the out of universe version, honestly.
If that's all covered by Accidental Truth, then maybe pointing Accidentally Accurate at that trope should be an option.
edited 18th Jan '17 10:24:36 AM by Discar
1) If doing an extensive research is not required for Shown Their Work, then it might have, unbeknownst to us, examples that fit Accidentally Accurate instead. Maybe those obscure facts were correct... and the writers didn't know it, contrary to what we assumed. Or lied about researching them. It would undermine the entire point of the name Shown Their Work.
2) I don't know the true scope of Accidental Truth, but the description seems to focus solely on a made up lie that happens to be true. I'm not sure it applies to situations where a character makes a guess and is correct.
It does undermine the entire point of Shown Their Work, which is why we created a trope for that; Dan Browned. That's when a work/creator that proports to be presenting factual information contains outright lies at best, and insidious misinformation at worst.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.No, I wasn't talking about facts that are wrong. I was talking about facts that are right, by mere coincidence, which is Accidentally Accurate. How can you tell examples of this aren't in the over 5000 wicks of Shown Their Work? After all, proper research is not a requirement of STW, right?
edited 18th Jan '17 12:40:38 PM by Gosicrystal
If Death of the Author is assumed, let's err on the side of complimenting them directly ("this shows they did research") instead of a backhanded compliment ("oh, they didn't screw this up"). Word of God can add additional bits of info (like "actually, I just guessed"), but I don't think it's important enough to make a subtrope.
That's averting Failed Future Forecast.
edited 18th Jan '17 2:29:50 PM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Well, in cases where the authors couldn't have known (a science fiction author from the forties who put the date of the first moon landing as 1969, for example), it seems both fairly obvious and significant (in the "trivia can be interesting" sense of "significant).
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.More like an inversion of the trope. And inversions can be made their own tropes if there are enough examples.
edited 18th Jan '17 2:50:49 PM by Gosicrystal
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?
I learned about Accidentally Accurate just days ago, and soon saw the amount of misuse the trope gets. First of all, it's a Trivia page, and gets tons of wicks from non-Trivia pages (sinkholes and so-called In-Universe entries in Main). I began to see patterns of misuse (situations it's mistaken with), and decided to do a wick check with about 50 wicks.
CORRECT USE
34 correct examples (lowest indentation level)
MISUSE
A character makes a guess and is correct.
Another way to mean Hilarious in Hindsight.
Person makes a joke that turns out to happen or be true.
Another way to mean Irony
Another way to mean Right for the Wrong Reasons
28 incorrect examples (lowest indentation level)
So the trope is misused in 28 out of 62 entries = 45% of the time. It's not extreme, but it's quite a lot nevertheless. The greatest root of misuse comes, I think, from the name of the trope. It's way too broad. Considering the major situations which with it's confused (jokes and guesses that turn out to be true), we should rename Accidentally Accurate (and possibly create a sister trope (or more, if need be) for the major targets of misuse). As for Right for the Wrong Reasons and Irony, we should just move the pertinent examples there.
It's worth noting, too, that "jokes" may overlap with Hilarious in Hindsight, but not necessarily (meaning not all joke examples should be moved to HIH). And In-Universe examples of Accidentally Accurate should only apply to writers within the story not doing the research for their Show Within a Show and happening to be right.
UPDATE 1: It was decided on a crowner to rename the trope.
UPDATE 2: It was decided on another crowner to rename it as Accidentally-Correct Writing.
edited 11th Jun '17 8:04:17 AM by Gosicrystal