Expy Cleanup Thread

~Raspberryred 99 thinks that King Koopa Copy has a lot of shoehorned examples, but doesn't have the proof. I think cleanup at this thread is more appropriate than TRS unless they can prove that there is a systemic problem beyond what is typical for Expy subtropes.

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I noticed this entry under CriticalRole:

Expy: The Call of Cthulhu one-shot has all the player characters line up roughly with the characters of Cluedo - Alexandra Elise O'Neill is the mature and worldly-wise Mrs Peacock; Hanako Hayashi is the younger Proper Lady like Miss Scarlett; Dr Mason Pocket is obviously Professor Plum; Cpt Bentley Badger is Colonel Mustard; Septimus Goodfellow is a non-Christian take on Reverend Green; and Ida Codswell is actually a recent addition, Dr Orchid, intended as a replacement for Mrs White.

I couldn't find anything from the creators stating that anything mentioned in this entry was deliberate (even after checking an article from the oneshot's GM outlining what went into the character creation) but I may have missed something on Twitter, since this oneshot is over a year old. Even with that ambiguity, is this example vague enough to be removed?

Edited by Afterword on Nov 3rd 2020 at 5:07:09 AM

A smile better suits a hero

From The Nostalgia Critic: Other Characters, regarding Hyper Fangirl.

• Expy: She's got a lot of Annie Wilkes qualities, being an insane kidnapping Loony Fan who thinks she's in the right, made especially prominent at the beginning of The Princess Diaries 2 when they reference her torturing Critic as Offstage Villainy. To add to the mix, Rob and Doug at Midwest Media Expo agreed that her logic is of Christian Grey's, and Doug in Island Adventure compares her to Harley Quinn in that she crosses moral event horizons to try and get a horrible person to love her.

These all seem to be just comparing her behavior to other characters without confirming they directly inspired her. I don't think she's an explicit expy of any specific fictional character because she's confirmed to be based off their fans, mostly one specific fan who's a friend of the cast.

And from Characters.The Nostalgia Chick regarding the titular character:

• Expy: There are other people's influence in there of course (such as Critic, Tina Fey, Mike from MST3K, Mystique from X-Men), but she's mostly like if Daria went through a Trauma Conga Line and had a complete breakdown.

I believe they compare her to Daria in her review of the show, but since multiple characters are cited, it's highly unlikely she's an expy of any specific one of them.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 3rd 2020 at 4:49:08 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Saw your ATT thread on this, and I agree. The word “roughly” casts the whole thing in doubt. It would be totally fine if you cut the whole thing.

Edit: I actually searched up the Critical Role vid so I could see for myself, and I see that they have color coded outfits like Clue, but Im didnt see the whole video, so that’s all I know.

Edited by antenna_ears on Nov 3rd 2020 at 2:52:00 AM

^ I double-checked that (it's been a hot minute since I actively watched the video instead of listening to the podcast) and while they are wearing some of the colors, they don't match... for example, the one wearing yellow is the one that the entry says is the Professor Plum Expy. Just based on that, I think I'm gonna pull it and cite this thread.

A smile better suits a hero

This is from Love, Victor: Felix is reminiscent of Martin from the movie in terms of personality, but not as aggressively a dogged nice guy as Martin was.

I don't think it counts. They are both akward outcast in love with a popular girl, but other than that they are very different. Martin was the antagonist, Felix is the main character's best friend. Felix is a genuinely good person, Martin is a "Nice Guy". Felix is good friends with Victor and later Pilar, while Martin is The Friend Nobody Likes. Felix is supportive when he finds out Victor is gay, while Martin blackmailed Simon when he found out Simon is gay. Also Felix actually gets together with the girl he likes while Martin does not.

From Big Mouth Supernatural Beings.

Maury:

• Expy: He's somewhat of a cross between Roger Smith and The Red Guy.

Rick:

• Expy: Of Gollum.

Jessi's Department:

• Expy: They are definitely inspired by the emotions in Inside Out.

Duke Ellington:

• Expy: A smooth black man who gives white boys advice while singing soulfully. Much like Chef.

I'm questioning all of these, because I don't think these traits are specifically tied to those characters. Some play off of common tropes like Magical Negro (Duke/Chef) or Anthropomorphic Personification (Jessi's head / Inside Out). Rick doesn't even really act or even look much like Gollum beyond being a crinkly old gross creature.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

First 3 are all ZCE and can be cut anyway.

Edited by LaundryPizza03 on Dec 13th 2020 at 12:52:00 PM

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Found more examples on DuckTales 2017: Duckburg.

Violet Sabrewing

• Expy:
  • According to Frank Angones, her personality was inspired by Egon Spengler.
  • The fact that she's a socially-awkward, purple-colored bookworm makes her similar to Twilight Sparkle.
    

IIRC, "inspired by" is not the same as an Expy, so I'm inclined to cut it, especially since they're otherwise vastly different. The second seems to be a definite cut - characters sharing a common character archetype and color scheme, ignoring the fact that one's a regular hummingbird and the other's a pony princess.

Roxanne Featherly

• Expy: Of Webra Walters from the original series, who herself was a No Celebrities Were Harmed version of Real Life news reporter Barbara Walters. Her name was changed because Walters is not as famous now as she was in the '80s.
  

Can you have an Expy in an adaptation of the original? If so, and if she is (which actually seems plausible in this case), the example as written seems to be lacking a tad in context.

Percival P. Peppington

• Expy: His appearance brings to mind Willie Wonka, specifically the Gene Wilder take on the character.
  

Seems like a legit example. This guy's attire is pretty clearly referencing Willy Wonka, and even though we don't know much about him, the whole "mogul of a sugary product company" (stated elsewhere in his character entry) is pretty hard to argue against.

Hazel House Monsters

• Expy: The wereduck seems to be one of Wolfduck, a Darkwing Duck villain exclusive to the video game.
  

The Weasel Words should probably make it an automatic cut, but since I'm not too familiar with the Darkwing Duck video game, I don't think I can say authoritatively whether or not he fits. That said, the fact that the TV character is kind of a passing background character makes this one iffy, since werewolves are ubiquitous and there's otherwise not a whole lot of evidence one could use to argue this.

Edited by PacificGreen on Dec 26th 2020 at 2:18:06 AM

"Can you have an Expy in an adaptation of the original?"

I don't know, but now I'm wondering if a trope for these same-work expies would be a good idea. Like a supertrope to Suspiciously Similar Replacement.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I mean, technically they're distinct works (like how you'd talk about different Star Trek continuities as distinct works) but methinks something like the Roxanne Featherly example would better fit under one of the "Adaptational" tropes. But I'm not sure.

BrassRobo recently added an example to Characters.Atomic Robo:

• Expy: [Heinrich von Helsingard] is arguably one for Hellboy's Herman von Klempt, being a Nazi mad scientist who continuously plagues the main character and survives death as a head/brain in a jar. He even has cyborg mooks instead of Klempt's cyborg gorillas.

I deleted it — "arguably" was a red flag — but they added it back without the "arguably" and with the last sentence switched to "He even looked like von Klempt before he lost his face."; and with the edit reason:

Added this back in, since Hellboy was mentioned by the author as an influence, and the similarities between the two characters are too obvious to be unintentional. Helsingard also has an army of cybrog humans, similar to von Klempt's cybrog apes. A multitude of underground bases hidden around the world. And in his first apperence makes use of Vril energy, a reoccuring plot element in Hellboy.

The edit reason makes a better case than the original entry, but I'm still not sold on it — but then again I've become biased and have started to assume that nearly every use of Expy is wrong, so I figured I'd better get a second opinion. And besides, unilaterally cutting it again would be an edit war.

Edited by DragonRanger on Dec 30th 2020 at 12:08:33 PM

Bump? I'd still like to get some input on the Atomic Robo example.

I'm new to this thread so I apologize if this has been asked already but: how can we know for sure an expy is deliberate without Word of God? It's not like we can read the creators mind to find out.

Would this be the proper place to discuss Expy related tropes like King Koopa Copy and Darth Vader Clone?

Yes. Though ironically, Fountain of Expies characters tend to not need as strict standards as actual Expy examples. (The image might go too far in the other direction, but that's another thread.)

I've checked some character pages from the Sonic franchise. I deleted a few, I think I added a few. Can I get a review on my edits?

Sonic the hedgehog: (cut example)

• Expy: Collect all seven Chaos Emeralds and at least 50 rings, and jump into the air. Sonic will turn into Super Sonic! His fur will turn gold, his eyes will turn green (or red) and... wait, is that you, Goku!?

Justification: No, he isn't. While the Dragon Ball influence is confirmed by word of god (alongside Star Wars), Sonic himself isn't based on Goku. The two don't really share that many characteristics besides Sonic being a mild adrenaline junkie. Not to mention the example is zero context.

Big the cat: (prone to deletion)

• Expy: Well, not of a specific character per se, but he's very similar in personality to a typical Hayao Miyazaki creation, e.g. Totoro.

Thoughts: I definitely see Miyazaki influence in the creation of Big, in both design and story role. With that said, I don't feel this entry fits any standards, so I shall delete it in a while.

Orbot and Cubot: (keep, but possibly rewrite it a bit)

• Expy: The concept of robot buddies to work off a somewhat comically inept Eggman likely comes from at least two adaptations. Orbot and Cubot have since taken this role across all mediums.

Thoughts: The two characters aren't carbon copies of Scratch and Grounder, nor Decoe and Bocoe, but the idea of Eggman having a duo of a sassy robot and an idiot robot may have come from them. I say keep.

Gamma: (Keep, but I need a source)

• Expy: Gamma and the E-Series are mentioned in concept artwork as being based off the Eggrobos.

Thoughts: Yeah, compare both◊ and the resemblance exists, meaning Gamma is a modern (at the time) reinterpretation of Eggman robots from Sonic & Knuckles.

Rouge the bat: (cut)

• Expy: Her design resembles Morrigan as an anthropomorphic bat.

Reasoning: There is nothing the creators have said that link both characters. Not to mention that the two have nothing in common beyond being "dark action girls".

Blaze the cat: (unsure, possibly cut)

• Rei Ayanami Expy: She has purple and white fur and golden eyes. She grew up with incredible fire powers that she couldn't control and was ostracised for it, leading her to become aloof and stoic. When she meets Sonic, she learns to become more sociable.

Thoughts: Unsure of this one.

Silver the Hedgehog: (Keep)

• Expy: His role and characterization are based primarily on Future Trunks; his entry in the game's script even ends with "basically, think Trunks from Dragon Ball Z". In the Sonic's 27th Anniversary Charity Stream for Syntero Mental Health, Shiro Maekawa confirms the resemblance is intentional, saying they took "the base model from Trunks".

Thoughts: While the entry could be expanded, I made sure to list both comparisons to Trunks, including Word of God for that matter. So yeah, Silver is Trunks.

Black Doom: (keep, but rewrite it a bit)

• Expy: He bears a resemblance to Wizeman with his similar attire, horns on his heads, detachable eyes, and being responsible for the protagonist's existence.

Thoughts: I played Ni GHTS, so the resemblance is there. Not to mention both properties belong to Sonic Team. That said, I believe the entry needs a rework.

Wave the swallow: (unsure, possibly cut)

• Expy: Wave's bandana, short tank top and massive wrench as a weapon of choice really invoke some Winry Rockbell vibes. Even her dynamic with Jet feels like a platonic version of Ed and Winry's relationship at times.
• Feather Fingers: Taken to the logical extreme — their wings are so hand-like that they barely even qualify as wings anymore. They can even wear gloves on them!

Thoughts: The resemblance is there, but I think this is more Counterpart Comparison than an actual exported character.

Erazor Djinn: (cut)

• Expy: An evil Djinn that seeks to conquer the world? He'd fit right in in the Wishmaster series. He also looks a lot like Dragon Ball Z's Majin Buu.

Thoughts: Two comparisons, and neither is correct beyond a superficial reason. Not to mention there isn' word of god to back this up.

Mephiles the dark: (cut)

• Expy: Of Cell. A time-travelling, manipulative entity with self-duplicating powers born of a scientific experiment who wishes to attain his ultimate form by merging with another being, succeeds in killing the protagonist and is opposed by a time-traveller hailing from a ruined future. It also helps that Sliver himself is an Expy of Future Trunks and Team Sonic's staff has admitted on numerous occasions to being huge fans of Dragon Ball.

Reasoning: Sonic Team being fans of DBZ and Silver being inspired by Trunks don't make Mephiles a clone of Cell. The characters are nothing like, the goals aren't the same, their personalities aren't the same. This is a forced comparison.

Bean the Dynamite: (keep)

• Expy: Bean is a Shout-Out to Bin and Pin, the bomb-tossing duck protagonists of another Sega AM2 game called Dynamite Dux.

Thoughts: It checks out.

Honey the cat: (keep)

• Expy: Basically Honey from Fighting Vipers as a cat.

Thoughts: Pretty much her purpose.

Comedy Chimp: (this is mine, please review)

• Expy: He's a cleaner version of Krusty the clown from The Simpsons. The tv show's producer and Comedy Chimp voice actor, Bill Freiberger, previously worked on the show and wrote the episode "She of Little Faith".

Reasoning: The character is very similar to Krusty, and I made sure to check on Freiberger's work to see if the resemblance is intentional. As such, added the information.

What do you think?

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

Even if those are valid, most of them lack any context as to what makes the characters similar.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Do we have a trope about characters influencing another character but not necessarily being a full-fledged expy? It could curb some misuse if we did.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Counterpart Comparison. It ended being abused on YMMV pages, so now is just for fun. Inspired by… and Shout-Out also cover you there.

Which ones do you think need work?

Edited by Tomodachi on Jan 8th 2021 at 6:20:09 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

A good majority of them. It'd be easier to list the ones that provide context.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Orbot and Cubot can go. Different characters filling a corresponding role — even if paired — is not an Expy.

Shall do later. Understood.

Anyone else I have to keep an eye on?

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

Looks to me like you have the right idea in most cases; I don't know enough about some of the series involved to say for certain.

I'd like to bring up RosenkreuzStilette. For those not in the know, everything in this game is a homage to the Mega Man series, but it takes the form of combining elements from different MM games/levels/bosses rather than simply repeating them. There's also influence from other series.

So, every character on the page, every single one, has an "Expy" entry describing them as a combination of 2-4 other characters. That's clearly misuse. My only question is: should we just remove the entries, or is there a more appropriate place to keep the information?

Characters.Kirby Villainous Factions So, which one is it? Based on appearance and franchise, I'm favoring Magolor.

• Expy:
  • He is one to Magolor from Return to Dream Land. Both have a mysterious, mage-like appearance, both have Floating Limbs, and are villains who Heel–Face Turn in the end.
  • He's a big one to Kamek. Both are mage-like characters acting on the behalf of the true villain of their respective games, whom they share a personal relationship with. Both kidnap someone they believe to be a powerful hero who will interfere with his plans, only to be thwarted by someone else instead. Both influence the bosses fought within the games without being directly fought. Finally, both are ultimately defeated/attacked by their own superior, only to return to signal the beginning of the final phase of the final boss battle.

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