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- Does the galaxy far, far away have no concept of war crimes? For example, Obi-Wan's fake surrender and the Republic's use of at least one child soldier (Ahsoka) seem rather war crime-y.
- They might but do you expect a civilization from long time ago in a galaxy far, far away to follow the UCMJ? They might consider things we do as war crimes.
- You do realize the entire Grand Army of the Republic consists of child soldiers? None of the clones are older then eleven.
- Also, there is no equivalent to the Geneva Convention. General Grievous, for instance, has bombarded defeated worlds to cinders just for opposing him.
- Boys as young as 13 have been historically used as soldiers up until the mid-1900s, and still are in some countries.
- Well yeah, he's the bad guy. The clones are defensible on the child front, as different species probably have different ages of maturity, and thanks to cloning tricks, they're as close to adults as anyone. The fake surrender and Anakin's padawan are still fairly douchey.
- If clones get a pass on the age thing on the "different species have different ages of maturity" clause (despite being human) why can't Togruta (Ahsoka's species)? Besides Jedi are trained from childhood to fight. She's basically Anakin's squire — for all their advanced technology, the Star Wars universe has a pretty medieval attitude toward a lot of things; it is basically a fantasy, after all.
- The fact that they're using clones at all shows they don't have the same morals that we do.
- I say the slave army of canon fodder is more warcrimey than a single child soldier.
- The real difference is, the decision to use the slave army of cannon fodder rests entirely in the hands of a corrupt, Palpatine-controlled Senate — inexcusable, but understandable given who is responsible. The decision to use padawans on the front lines? That's all the "heroic" Jedi's doing...
- Re. the Clone Troopers: it's not all Palps' doing. Characters we're meant to see as heroic support using them: Padmé Amidala, Bail Organa, Onaconda Farr, etc. They might view the clones as people more than resources (which is more than can be said of some of the other Senators), but thus far none of them has come out and condemned the use of clones as slavery. The way I see it, nobody in this story is innocent; at the very least, they're all guilty of maintaining a status quo where people who ought to have a right to choose whether or not to fight in a war — be they Padawans or clones — don't have any such right.
- They don't have much choice. They can either accept the army or... well, die like dogs given the fact the droids vastly outnumber the Jedi Order. One must also consider the fact the sympathetic characters you mention are, in turn, vastly outnumbered by the corrupt in the Senate, so there's not much they can do.
- Another possible justification for the slavery is Kamino law, it that it could be that they have a mandatory draft for all clones of that template, and feel that it is safer to make their educational system for them around military combat because that is their future, and the more they are trained, the better chance they have for survival. It just happens that the clones make up the majority of the military, that soldiers from Kamino are not allowed leave or downtime because of their homeworld's laws, that most are killed before the required service is up, and that the length of the required service happens to end when they are too old to fight. It's still deplorable, but it might make it so they aren't legal slaves in Republic law. Still close enough for hypocrisy, but it would make the public, senate and Jedi feel better about it.
- Obi-Wan did surrender and didn't start fighting again until Anakin and Ahsoka sent the clones to rescue him, IIRC. Once a rescue attempt is under way, the surrender is over.
- Can you really commit war crimes against droids? If the enemy can't be bothered to even show up in person and send robots in their place, then I think everything is fair game. I can't imagine the Jedi having POW camps for incarcerated B-1s.
- Well remember The Hidden Enemy? Apparently, it's forbidden for clones to take droid parts from the battlefield.
- That might be more of a policy thing than a "droids have rights" thing. Perhaps the droids are considered property seized by the Republic, or it's just seen as bad for discipline to let troopers collect droid parts. Nothing indicates that it is because droids are seen to have fundamental rights- Anakin and Ahsoka repeatedly get funny looks from other Jedi for treating R2-D2 as anything more than a glorified tool, and in fact Kenobi is outraged at Anakin for not wiping R2s memory banks in one episode.
- The most warcrimey is the fact that apparently attacking medical centers and medical ships is a-okay. Of course, it's the bad guys doing that, especially Grievous, but still — it seems exceptionally grim for a kids' show, even if the alternative is the unwieldy and difficult explanation that there are "rules" to war.
- I honestly believe its not so much a matter of them committing war crimes rather than the culture not having as well defined an age of adulthood as us. Little kids and such, of course they'll be defined a children, but from what we've seen (i.e. Padme becoming Queen of Naboo at the age of 14, which in most cultures would require a regent until she came of age, and Leia becoming a senator at age 18, where in countries such as the USA, she is seven years to young to join the federal legislature and if a direct analogy to their senate, actually 17 years too young) when an individual becomes able to cope and take responsibility in an adult like matter, along with growing into adult-like proportions, even if they have a few more growth spurts for height, people in the Star Wars Universe seem to be regarded as an adult. In our culture, a 13/14 year old would be considered for all intents and purposes a child, but in theirs, if they had the maturity and coping skills of an older teenager, a 13/14 year old would be considered an adult.
Ahsoka the child soldier
- Ahsoka and the other padawans are young enough that it should be illegal for them to fight.
- Ahsoka may be only fourteen, but she's still a Jedi. That's gotta count for something...
- Maybe her race ages differently? She doesn't look like a preteen, she can be like an 18 human.
- Um, no. She looks pretty much exactly how a girl her age (14) should look. She's nowhere near the equivalent of 18.
- The same Lucas that can't correctly pronounce half of his own planets. Every other source says fourteen, so... Word of God be damned.
- Maybe eleven for Togruta chronologically is the physical/mental/cultural/all of the above equivalent to fourteen for a human? I mean, different species are bound to age and mentally develop differently than humans, and we can't expect them to have a human like culture when human cultures vary greatly in canon. More of a Wild Mass Guess but if it stops it from bugging people.
- What defines a child or adult is subjective, and entirely dependent and defined by culture, even in Real Life. There are some parts of the world where a girl becomes a woman, and hence is ready for marriage and motherhood, at a specific point of puberty, which can be as young as eight, although those cultures are considered "primitive", "barbaric" or "third world" to us, it isn't anymore right or wrong than our requirements for being an adult, it's just that they skip adolescence in their culture or that's how it's done. Even a few countries that we consider more developed have the general/acceptable age for marriage several years younger than eighteen, what we consider the youngest acceptable age. And in official Star Wars canon, Mandalorians are legally adults when they turn thirteen or the species equivalent if they aren't human, and Chiss are adults at ten from what I understand (although that is the average age of physical maturity, but for humans it's around fourteen to sixteen), it's not treated as bad or reprehensible, its just something that had been done for thousands of years, and is ingrained into the culture and mindset. It's also implied that Mandalorians as a culture have no concept of adolescence. Consider the clones as a unique species of human, who grow and learn at twice the rate of a normal human, that means that they would be adults sooner. As for the training of the cadets that are still children (to our perception at least), consider that they are all clones of a Mandalorian (who was Manda'lor himself actually), who's culture in all likelihood skipped adolescence, and consider people adults at thirteen/an age where they are physically and mutually equivalent to a human thirteen-year-old on average, and those we've seen seem to be around that age. Remember that, according to the EU, most of the training was given by Mandalorians, and Mandalorian culture had a heavy influence on the clone's own culture and mindset, and that Mandalorians are said to be trained to fight the moment they take their first step (or at the age of three). That could be justification for the clone's young age when they start training. I still don't approve of what they are doing though because it is still basically slavery, which is technically illegal in the Republic and makes them major hypocrites, but "slave soldiers that are physically mature at eight and who are culturally adults around age six, who were raised to fight our battles" sits better with me than, "slave child soldiers who were raised to fight our battles that start training at six and are sent out to fight at eight."
- She's only a padawan as of the Clone Wars pilot movie...
- Any reference to her as a "Jedi" is actually a mistake. Almost unanimously up to this series, excepting head-strong and childish characters that learn their lesson by the end, Padawans are not analogous to Jedi and are explicitly Jedi-in-training. Like how a student at a dojo is not the Master of the dojo. Many times, this has been humbly pointed out by the Padawans themselves, but when Ahsoka is referred to as "Master Jedi" she says nothing to contradict them. Rather, she occasionally uses this prestige to her advantage and calls herself a "Jedi Knight" without reprisals from anybody. She even references herself as a Jedi Knight when speaking of herself and Anakin to her Master's face. When Anakin started his training he was considered too old and when he did become a Knight, about eleven years later, certain Jedi Masters thought he was under-prepared. However, "mistake" with this series is relative, as it overrides anything that was published before it aside from something straight from Lucas's mouth or the movies.
- Jedi begin training at the age of infancy, so it's really another example of the Old Jedi Order's general nuttiness and Knight Templar-like mentality.
- "Your father was betrayed and murdered by a Jedi named Darth Vader." Yeah, the Jedi Order's that messed up.
- Age of consent is also quite different from Earth norms. Ahsoka is the same age Padmé was in Episode 1, after all.
- Age of consent is quite different than American norms, you mean.
- Western peacetime norms, to be precise. In Soviet Russia, Arkady Gaidar, a revolutionary and later a well-known writer, held a position of a Regiment Commander at the age of 14. The guy didn't have any nifty powers, only plenty of guts and grit, since, y'know, it was Real Life. Granted that he was a pretty unique example, but it shows that it's not impossible in Real Life. In the later Soviet Union, his example was portrayed as heroic, not war-crimey.
- Mm, as far as I know, even non-American countries don't allow people as young as 14 to enter the military. And isn't age of consent in most places closer to 16? I know it was a big deal that Canada had it at 14 for a looooong time.
- Also consider the fact that the concept of adolescence as a phase of life where one isn't a child and not ready to be and adult has to go through changes physically, develops mentally, ages emotionally, and as a time where someone goes through several rites of passage is still very new and limited to "developed", "industrialized" and "modern" areas of the world. Look at American life in the Victorian Era, when high school was becoming available to girls and people who weren't upper class, which was the beginning of adolescence becoming a phase of life. A girl was expected to get married by the time she was twenty, right out of high school if she was attending, as soon as she was legally able to otherwise, and it was more acceptable for the groom to be five years older than her at minimum than for him to be a boy her own age. She was also expected to have children ASAP once she was married, even if she was planning to attend college or get a job herself, which was very rare until WWI made it so women had to work to support their families. Men who could or weren't needed to help run the family farm/business were expected to find a job that could eventually support a family as-well-as himself if he wasn't privileged enough to be able to afford college. They also had to get to that point before they would be allowed by a woman's family to marry her, and his age only mattered when it hit the point where there would be no point to a marriage because he wouldn't be able to get his wife pregnant anyways. Both boy's and girls were legal adults when they were eighteen, just like modern times, but people were expected to be completely mature by the time they were eighteen, and were treated as full members of society. However, this is a description of the life of a white person, who was part of a family that was at least solid middle class, and not even lower middle class. People who were lower middle class or below, or who were minorities (although some managed to rise to solid middle class or higher if they weren't in the south) were expected to "grow up", basically reaching figurative adulthood, much sooner, starting work as young as six or seven. Basically, during that time, adolescence was only available to people born into privileged families, and ended at eighteen (not sure when it started). Today, adolescence is expected to be experienced by everyone, starts at ten or eleven at the earliest (socially anyways, some girls get their first period by age eight, meaning that they hit puberty two years earlier) and freshman year of high school at the latest. Teenagers are now considered less mature than they once were, and depending on who you ask, adolescence can end anywhere from eighteen at earliest to twenty five at latest. Remember that this is just one country's perception of growing up, and that it varies from region to region within itself, of course the US is really big.
- Imagine cultural differences on a global scale with all the regions, countries on Earth, and keep in mind that it is constantly changing. Try and spread that to a galactic scale, even with Planet of Hats in effect, it is a safe bet there are a lot more occupied planets in the galaxy that Star Wars takes place in than there are different cultures on Earth. Each planet will have its own culture and ideas of what makes an adult and when it can or should happen. Who's to say Ahsoka isn't a cultural equivalent of an adult, or someone close enough to adulthood to be in war?
- Also, I think there might be some supplementary materials somewhere in the EU which posit the proposal that by this point of the Clone Wars, the Jedi Order is falling back on younger and younger padawans as the casualties amongst their elders and more experienced Jedi mount up. Likewise, bear in mind the Clone Wars are, at the end of the day, Palpatine's Evil Plan — he's the only real political power in the Republic now, and he's unlikely to pull up the Jedi Order on supposed "war crimes" unless it suits his purposes. In fact, it's a lovely piece of propaganda he can use against them later when the time comes for Order 66.
- Except the timeline for the Clone Wars was adjusted to allow the series to take place during the start of the war.
- Wookiepedia puts the start of the series in the second year of the war, possibly to give Anakin plenty of time to become a Jedi Knight.
- Also, you must remember that in order for International Laws (in this case, Interplanetary Laws) against war crimes to be enforced, there needs to be some kind UN/World Court like organization. The Republic and the Jedi's role before the war was basically the UN of the universe. It isn't like they can do anything about war crimes committed by the Separatist (What can the Republic do? Sue them?), and except for a few people such as Padme, Bail Organa, and Mon Mothma, no one in the Republic government is going to call out Palpatine for what he is doing.
- Dooku was 14 when he became a Jedi, and by a young adult he became a Jedi Master. It did have some consequences including liking the first backstabber, but still.
- Bear in mind that there are about 10,000 Jedi to fight a war across an entire galaxy. They need every able-bodied person they can get. This trope is actually being averted.
- When exactly in the continuity does the pilot movie and tv series take place? It has to be after Anakin was promoted to Knight, since he doesn't have his braid anymore, but it's before the end of the Clone Wars Series, since that segues directly into Episode III. Does it take place during the "Anakin Kicking Butt" Montage? And if so, what happened to Ahsoka in that time period?
- Simple, she eventually got Put on a Bus.
- It'll be explained in the TV series maybe?
- Confirmed. She leaves the Order and walks into the sunset.
- New continuity. Five-year-old consumers > everyone who cares, apparently.
- The Clone Wars might reach such a point that nothing ever happens to Ahsoka, and Anakin doesn't fall to The Dark Side.
- Then you're crazier than any of us.
- General Grievous kills her for telling everyone that his back story was that he wanted to be a Jedi but couldn't so he made himself a cyborg.
- Grievous never wanted to be a Jedi, he was a Keelesh warlord who was involved in a shuttle crash arranged by Palpatine so he could turn Grievous into a more powerful cyborg that could lead the droid armies and match a Jedi. Count Dooku had his brain implanted with a device that allowed him to wield lightsabers. Read the Episode III visual dictionary if you don't believe me (which is a lot more canon-orientated than the cartoon series).
- Which is totally incorrect and seems to be a sign that the promo people didn't check their facts.
- It's also a joke, as far as I can tell.
- It's a little of both, the character info on the Cartoon network site has Grievous' info as what I first posted it and as a joke.
- Incidentally, they are taking Grievous' back story in Broad Strokes. Lucas had this idea where he was basically what the Cartoon Network site said, but Dave Filoni wished to respect the EU story and set the actual episode so he could be taken as one or the other.
- Not that Filoni gives a damn about any other part of the EU...
- Apparently (and I have no source on this, I just heard it from a friend) there is a time skip within Revenge of the Sith — after Anakin and Obi Wan rescue Palpatine and before Padmé drops the baby bomb on Anakin - which is the only time the series could logically take place.
- Except upon typing and posting that I just realized it can't possibly be the case, since Dooku is alive in the series. ARGH!
- There's also the fact that Anakin landing half of Grievous' ship and Padme telling him about the kid happen in practically the same scene.
- If this was true, then how could someone explain Grievous' coughing since it was Mace Windu's force powers that crushed his lungs? Seriously, at this rate the continuity of this series will just inch itself out of the SWU itself.
- This series takes place in 22 BBY, a few months after Attack of the Clones. They don't care if it doesn't make any sense with prior sources. For example, Grievous' cough is not caused by the scene in the original Clone Wars show and has no explanation (It was to be in link with the movie, in which he had had the cough for about a week. (The movie begins a week after Palpatine is kidnapped in Clone Wars.)) As for Anakin becoming a Knight, it happened right after the Clone Wars started, which may or may not mean he did not have all those adventures with Obi-Wan that were used as justification for his skipping the Trials in Clone Wars. They may have happened within the span of a single year: actually only a few months because the BBY system does not exactly mesh with the in-universe calendar. The big problem with this series' place in continuity is that the Clone Wars only lasted for three years and that LucasArts decided to capitalize on the prequel trilogy by documenting the events of this war to the month. Then they decided, five years into this project, to make this show and include characters who were doing many different things: characters like Anakin have barely have a month in-universe without an adventure of some kind. The people who make this show decided to connect it to Revenge of the Sith and the film characters that are popular (and Jar Jar), which are not the same characters development-wise as they were at the beginning of the Clone Wars. There are many other discrepancies that are created by their inserting of this show, but they are far too numerous to list so I'll just do one more. You see Anakin's scar about his eye? He got that fighting Asajj Ventress in 20 BBY. Refer to the date I gave you at the start of this explanation. (Frankly, they missed an opportunity by giving him the scar. They could have omitted it for the series and re-released the comic issue where he received it as a special edition, thus making money. But that would have made too much sense to the fans of pre-TCW canon.)
- In the TV commercials for the TV show, Ahsoka states that "if I have to cut down 100 droids... I will." Does she seem a little too eager to dive into wanton destruction? I thought Jedi were totally against that. Or am I wrong because droids are robots and don't matter?
- Seeing as how her master is going to turn into a mass murderer she might have picked up a few of his traits.
- And given what pushovers these guys are, are a hundred even a minor issue?
- Given Obi-Wan's mixture of apathy and disdain for droids with him being a fairly model Jedi and that's she's taking lessons from Darth Vader in the making...
- That's nothing. In a recent episode Ahsoka put a lightsaber to a prisoner's throat and threatened to "gut him like a fish", if he didn't talk. In the presence of a Jedi Master no less. And while she was probably bluffing, there's no justification for the "I'll give you a merciful death!" line she gave the assassin a few minutes later. If she keeps it up, she has a good chance of turning evil before her master.
- Like they said: she's taking instructions from Anakin Skywalker, who's already half-Sith by the time Episode III starts. Plus, the Clone Wars themselves are said in the Episode III novelization to be turning the Jedi into something they were never intended to be — soldiers, not peacekeepers.
- I remember reading that her species, Togruta, are a predatory species and more prone to aggression. Combine that with being trained by Anakin, and it's no real surprise she has trouble holding back her anger and aggression. Makes her wonder who's bright idea it was to give her to Anakin to train actually...
- The idea might have been that Anakin would see the aggressive tendencies in Ahsoka, and, as her teacher, work to have her "correct" those tendencies. And, in so doing, Anakin would realize his own tendencies, and figure out how to deal with them himself. It could have worked, were it not for the whole "war" thing.
- It's worth asking how she would respond to a different approach. Anakin gives her a lot of leeway, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's bad if she thinks that disobeying orders in battle is acceptable (as Bric said in "Clone Cadets", arguing on the battlefield is likely to get you killed), but it's good if it allows her to feel freedom, contentment, and gives her a sense that she is appreciated as a person. In "R2 Come Home" when Windu tells Artoo that he sees why Anakin puts such faith in him and tells him he did a good job, Anakin responds by saying "Heh. That's definitely more praise than I ever get." I'm not sure if he was joking or not, since in Episode II Obi-Wan never did anything but criticize him and yell at him. In the Geonosis arena scene, when Anakin tells Obi-Wan he was there to rescue him, Obi-Wan doesn't say "Thanks for trying." No, he sarcastically says "Good job." When Anakin got assigned a padawan, he might have remembered how frustrating it was to be shown so little respect and praise and to just be ordered around all the time, and might have vowed to treat his own student better. Now, what if she were trained by Obi-Wan instead? Would she be more likely to turn out like Anakin, to be just as fucked up? I think she would. I think that if Obi-Wan had just been nicer to Anakin, that Anakin wouldn't have had so much pent up rage and frustration to eventually unleash on the galaxy.
- There are too many extenuating circumstances in Anakin's fall to blame it purely on Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan was knighted and given a padawan (with a ridiculous amount of problems, I might add) long before he was ready. Being strict was likely the only way to establish control of the situation, since the Council didn't have much faith in him or Anakin. The only guidelines he had for training Anakin came from Qui-Gon Jinn, who wasn't exactly the most amiable Jedi master to Obi-Wan (at least at first) because of the betrayal of his first apprentice Xanatos. Furthermore, we know that while Obi-Wan was critical, he was the only one who consistently defended Anakin in front of the Council. We know that both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan really mellowed with age: compare the first Jedi Apprentice book with Qui-Gon in The Phantom Menace, and see how much warmer Obi-Wan is Revenge of the Sith. And, lastly, communication is a two-way street. There are concerns in Attack of the Clones that Anakin never airs to his master. You might say it's because he feared his concerns would be easily dismissed, but you can't solve a problem if you only vent it to the one person (Padmé) who can't do anything about it. Yes, I think Obi-Wan could have done more to understand Anakin. Even if he was raised at the Temple and against forming attachments, he had anger issues in his youth too, and even deserted the Order at one time. But maybe that's why he's critical to Anakin: because he's seen where he's made so many mistakes, and he doesn't want Anakin to do the same. Maybe if Obi-Wan and Anakin had actually listened to each other more often, if Palpatine hadn't been poisoning Anakin against them, if destiny hadn't said so... it all might have been avoided. But you know how it goes.
- And what is it with Ahsoka's fighting style? In the movie and the early episodes she clearly holds her lightsaber backwards — something we haven't seen any other Jedi doing (and I find it hard to believe she invented her own style). In recent episodes however, she only does it during dramatic poses and not the actual combat.
- Ahsoka's fighting style is known as Shien.
- And in response to her using Shien less now, Word of God says Skywalker is trying to break her of it, which is more confusing when you consider one of the most well-known Shien users, Starkiller, was trained by Vader pretty much his whole life.
- Could be guilt over whatever happened/will happen to Ahsoka.
- OR whatever ends up happening to Ahsoka is at least indirectly caused by her being uncomfortable with wielding a lightsaber in its proper orientation. Vader later sees this as a liability in an apprentice and doesn't bother to correct Starkiller.
- Also, there is a significant change in Anakin's personality between The Clone Wars, and The Force Unleashed. In The Clone Wars Anakin is still mostly a good person,who is training someone to be a galactic peacekeeper, and so might be reluctant to teach his apprentice a offensively oriented combat style. By the time of The Force Unleashed, Vader is a mostly evil person, training an assassin to exterminate any remaining Jedi, so he would take no issue to training Starkiller in an aggressive, offense based form.
- Backhand style is more for Rule of Cool than any proper usage in battle. It decreases your reach and invites you to get your saber pushed back in your face if you go to a lock. More to the point, try wearing a bathrobe and hold a stick backwards like Ahsoka does in the ready position. Hits your sleeve, right? Well, now try doing it with a BAR OF SUPERHEATED PLASMA, which is what a lightsaber is. Maybe Jedi just like setting their own clothes on fire.
- However Shien exists for pretty much one specific purpose. Namely, deflecting blaster fire.
- Grievous uses the same fighting style in order to prevent outside interference in duels.
- In "Duel of the Droids", shouldn't the Vulture droids have shields? Ahsoka jumps on one and slices off its... head... even though lightsabers can't even penetrate droideka shields. Also, their cannons seemed extremely piddly for starfighters. Starfighters are... starfighters, we see them blow things up doubleplusgood several times in the actual films. What's up with that? Were their reactors uncharged or something? It niggled at me, even though it came from an otherwise excellent episode.
- Well, the shield might short out on continuous contact with the ground, much as droideka shields did in the ROTS novel upon contact with the ceiling. That, or it's a lazy plot device, aka droid power cell charge.
- Going by the Starfighter games, they don't have shields, since they have only one life bar there (shielded ones have two).
- According to my Star Wars: Saga Edition RPG, Vulture Droids have no shields. As for why they didn't do more damage... Maybe the droid starfighters didn't want to cause too much internal damage to the hangar bays... but considering how stupid TF droids are, it might be a stretch they'd have that consideration. I guess this is a case of Plot Yields, where the destruction is variant on the needs of the story.
- RPG stats are notoriously unreliable. I'm going with power cells, and the fact R-3 didn't want to risk ending up extra crispy himself. Use doublethink!
- Well, standard TIE Fighters are also shieldless in most incarnations, so Droid Fighters might be also. In fact, we saw Mace Windu lightsabering some Vulture Droids without shield interactions in the first Clone Wars series in the last chapters and it was awesome. I guess Ahsoka doesn't get to get away with this because she's a Scrappy and Mace Windu is played by Samuel L. Jackson and is therefore badass incarnate.
- Why do people pull out the "Because that character sucks" card here?
- There is a simple explanation as to why the weapons on the vulture droids seem less powerful; they are actually using smaller guns, the main weapons they use against other ships (i.e. the ones that do a lot of damage) are located in the wings, meaning their big guns are stuck pointed directly beneath them when in "walking mode". The real problem is, according to EU sources, they are supposed to have missile launchers where the small cannons are located in the episode.
- If the Separatists have boarding craft that can penetrate ship shields, why don't they just put bombs in them instead?
- You assume droid programming gives them that much leeway.
- What does droid programming have to do with anything? All they have to do is have their shield penetrating boarding craft burn through the hull, and then drop in bombs. This is one of those things you can do with a simple timing fuse.
- It's an idea that several different things have had. I didn't see that episode, but in Warhammer 40,000 it's to steal a ship. The idea works like this: you wouldn't pack your ship full of dynamite in case of a self-destruct, you would logically blow up the power source slash munitions dump. So you send a crack team of close-quarters fighters to capture and defend the bridge munitions room and engines to prevent them from causing self-destruct automatically, or by just shooting the room full of torpedoes and using the cramped confines of a ship's maintenance areas to force them to use a lot of people to get through you. So conceivably you would do the same with clones armed with vibroblades and pistols.
- Funny you should mention that, because Padmé uses that tactic against Grievous. It doesn't kill him, but it does kill the unsuspecting battle droids.
- Couple of problems with episode twelve. At the end of the previous episode, the Weequay tried to drug Obi-Wan and Anakin, but they guessed that their drinks had been tampered with and used the Force to swap them with some other Weequay. The Weequay are knocked out almost instantly and Anakin and Obi-Wan drink and are fine. At the start of the next episode, they wake up in prison and Obi-Wan concludes that they must have been drugged. What the hell? When did this happen exactly?
- When the episodes were still actively airing, the Star Wars website had short webcomics that preceded, followed, or bridged various episodes. In #12 Switch, they are drugged by Pilf Mukmuk, Hondo's pet Kowakian Monkey-Lizard.
- The other problem is at the end. Anakin has the leader of the Weequay captured, who asks if he's going to be arrested. Obi-Wan says no and makes Anakin let him go. Why? He lured them there under false pretenses, drugged them (somehow), held them for ransom and physically tortured them and Obi-Wan's just letting him go? Exactly what would be wrong with imprisonment? Okay, so perhaps his last comment about Count Dooku not being so forgiving is meant to imply that he'd rather have Dooku come and kill the guy instead of imprison him, but that seems more than a little too dark for a character like Obi-Wan.
- I think Obi-Wan is going to cash in this favour later on, but the warning I believe was supposed to be that they better get the hell away, because Dooku is going to level the planet. As for how they got captured, it's All There in the Manual (read: the online comic tie-in). The bad guys spike the atmosphere, incapacitating the entire room while they're at it.
- Imo, it's a really bad idea to put major plot points in an online comic, especially in a series this... um... less than consistent. And furthermore, aren't Jedi supposed to be able to resist poison?
- Well so much for the idea that Obi-Wan was going to cash the favour in. The Weequay shows up again in season two bullying farmers for their crops and even kills a bunch of them. Those farmers would still be alive if Obi-Wan had just followed protocol and taken the bastard to prison where he belonged. Nice going there, Obi-Wan.
Clone morality in "The Hidden Enemy"
- In "The Hidden Enemy", Slick's motivation about clone troopers being born as slaves (which was interesting and a nice bit of moral ambiguity) is just tossed out as less than a minute after he brings it up. I know that Anakin and Obi-Wan mention that sabotaging the mission was a step too far, but it just felt like:Slick: Isn't forcing us to serve as soldiers from birth wrong?
Jedi: No. THE END.
- The Jedi don't actually say anything about the whole 'serve as soldiers from birth' thing. All they complained about was the whole 'blow up clones to save them' thing. Anyway, they don't really have time to debate it; the Senate has approved the Army's existence and it's not like they have any other forces. They're making the best of a bad situation. If they didn't lead the army, somebody else would, and they might not be as concerned about the 'disposable clones' as the Jedi are. Don't assume the clone army is the Jedi's fault either; it was commissioned by a Jedi, yes, but one working on his own without the approval of the majority.
- The rest don't seem to care... and they do bring him back for a trial. On the other hand though, conscious clones (especially in the early part of the war we're supposed to believe this takes place in) don't really fit.
- What bothers me is that the clones were stated in the films to specifically be designed to be completely loyal. They're basically slaves to authority. It's not the morality, it's the inconsistency that gets to me, though I can accept one or two bad eggs in the galactic-scale army.
- "The Hidden Enemy" proves that in addition to raping continuity (as Wook put it), this cartoon is guilty of general, grievous acts of Travissty.
- Some clones went mad during the war, and some lived hard, but more peaceful lives. One episode had a clone living in a desolate planet similar to Tatooine who forgot all about the war and knew only how to cook.
- Gregor had amnesia and when he was told he was a clone he jumped right back into the fight. One the other hand you have clones like Cut Lawquane, Fives, and eventually Rex who know they're not just disposable numbers and deserve as much freedom as other sentient beings
- General Grievous has long had a backstory in the Expanded Universe, but recently some official sites have shown a much different one. Long story short, in the original Grievous became a cyborg and started working for the Confederacy after a horrible "accident" arranged by Dooku; the alternate one is that Grievous surgically gave himself cybernetic parts in order to be stronger. Apparently, the newer backstory is what George Lucas (who usually ignores Expanded Universe stories), had in mind for Grievous, but Dave Filoni decided to use Broad Strokes and not directly contradict either story.
- They're probably just going to keep it vague.
- I don't recall anything about Lucas' veto of the backstory. I do recall something that Filoni mentioned that a simple shuttle accident didn't really justify why a proud warlord would submit so easily to another's rule. The idea he would exchange his services for the cybernetic enhancements to become a more dangerous foe makes a bit more sense. Grievous is also depicted as having a very antagonistic relationship with Dooku, frequently arguing over failures in battles.
- Whatever the backstory, if Grievous was bad back then, they made him worse with a cyborg body, the intent to kill with extreme prejudice, and the ability to control all forms of droids including the assassin ones that don't stay dead until you are.
- The Malevolence's ion cannon. The blast wasn't that big, yet in at least one scene a small ship is trying to outrun it instead of simply moving along any other axis and out of the way. Then again, Space Is an Ocean.
- The disk... thing... is guided, and expandable. Which is why it can ionize a flotilla in one scene but be the same size as a spice freighter in the next.
- And since when is an ion cannon a superweapon anyway?
- Since when is a superlaser a superweapon anyway? Is it because it's attached to a giant reactor? Why, indeed it is!
- ...guided? Aimed, maybe. But the ion cannon on Hoth was much more logical than the "big blob" fired here that should have been easily dodged. (Of course, TCW is hardly alone in this, see the final episode of Stargate Atlantis for a particularly egregious example of sitting there and taking it.)
- During "Downfall of a Droid" and "Duel of the Droids", the whole plot revolves around the fact that R2-D2 carries Republic secrets within him. He's a freaking robot, what stops him from just deleting the relevant information to stop it from falling into enemy hands?
- Deletion should be one of the functions left in the hands of the owner, since it wouldn't be wise for a droid to delete precious data without confirmation. Imagine if a droid got pissed at you and deleted your banking records?
- In most cases (civilian applications for example), I would assume that you were right. However, a couple of things come to mind: one, he was a military droid carrying very important information, two, Anakin is a genius as far as robotics go. He could've just programmed the function in. I simply can't believe that there would be no contingency plan in case something went wrong.
- Military droids are supposed to routinely be memory-wiped for just this contingency. Anakin didn't, because of sentimentality. He probably wouldn't be the type to leave in contingencies to destroy the memory in case of capture, either.
- This is another nod to Anakin's slow descent into Sith territory. The Jedi leave no memories behind because memories lead to suffering, and suffering leads to anger. For the good of his Jedi training, he should have locked it up in a holocron.
- Also, because R2's an important character who canonically hasn't received a memory-wipe since sometime before The Phantom Menace.
Jedi Master rank
- Jedi are elevated to Master status upon the completion of their padawan's Knighthood trials. Since there's a huge deal in Episode III about Anakin not being a master, this means that either A) Ahsoka won't finish her trials, which seems reasonable considering the ridiculous excuse for a calm and controlled Jedi she's turning out to be, or B) The writers have finally said "Screw it" and will have her pass the trials for a happy, if plotholed, ending. Which direction do you think they'll take with this, and why would the creators build an entirely new character just to kill her off?
- I don't think Jedi become masters just because their Padawans have become knights, do they? Ki-Adi-Mundi was still a Jedi Knight by Episode One, surely he's trained a padawan or two. Besides, there's no reason why they can't kill her off. She was written in to highlight Anakin's maturity (however slight) between Episode Two and Three. If she gets killed off, it reinforces his "I need to save everyone" belief, making his fall to protect Padmé multi-layered.
- It isn't automatic. Probably the strongest expression of the idea that it has to be earned is that Anakin is elevated to the Jedi Council in Episode III, but he is point-blank refused the rank of master — in a situation where ordinarily membership of the Jedi Council carries the rank of master almost as a right.
- Also note that Ahsoka is far too young to become a Jedi Knight. I don't know what the general age is, but 11-14 just seems way too young. Anakin didn't become a knight until his early twenties and even then, that was because there were limited numbers of Jedi and because he was the Chosen One. Obi-Wan didn't become a knight until he was in his thirties and considering he was decently skilled, I imagine he is more the rule than the exception. And since The Clone Wars only covers what happened up to the start of episode 3, at which point the Order is destroyed, we can assume Ahsoka will definitely not be achieving knighthood. She's most likely either going to die (hopefully), or go into hiding.
- Obi-Wan was knighted at the end of The Phantom Menace — I don't know how old he was supposed to be, but I don't think he was in his thirties. I've seen people mention the "training a padawan = Jedi Master" claim before, and I'm sure there's some EU text that backs that up (which is contradicted by some other EU text), but the only evidence I've seen anyone actually produce is that padawans refer to the Jedi who trains them as "master". But if memory serves, Obi-Wan gets assigned Anakin as his padawan almost immediately after being knighted. Since Anakin would have then started calling him "master", and he presumably didn't become a Jedi Master the same day he became a Jedi Knight, I think that proves that having your padawan refer to you as "master" is not the same as being a Jedi Master. Just like having a waiter call you "sir" when he takes your order at a restaurant doesn't mean you've been knighted by the queen of England.
- Or maybe she'll simply change her mind about wanting to be a Jedi. It's surely not illegal for a padawan to quit, so if the writers want to force a happy ending on Ahsoka's story, they could always have her fall in love when she hits puberty, but choose not to live a lie the way Anakin did.
- I think there may be complications if a padawan "washes out" after a certain point. It'd be a little risky to have someone who can craft lightsabers outside of the order, even considering the fact that only Force-sensitives can uses lightsabers, not to mention, outside of the regimented structure of the order there are a lot more temptations to turn to the Dark Side.
- The Jedi don't force people to stay in the Order. Look at Jolee from Knights of the Old Republic. Count Dooku himself was known as one of the Lost Twenty. Knights who had for one reason or another, left the Jedi Order, but had parted ways on more or less good terms.
- Be that as it may, how easy can it be to leave if you've been a Jedi since the time you were an infant and were raised in the temple, possibly never meeting your family? If it's all that you know? Even if you're unhappy in the order, I doubt it's very easy to just turn in your lightsaber and walk away. And if citing EU stuff like KOTOR is fair game, then how about Roan Shryne from Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader? Shryne was given to the Jedi by his father, without his mother finding out about it until it was too late. She was understandably upset by this and left the bastard. Shryne never met her until he was forty years old, and by then the Jedi had conditioned him to the point where his response was basically "You're my mother? Well, that's not important. Let's talk about something else. Please." And also, in Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter we learn of Lorn Pavan, whose was literally separated from his infant son against his will. Considering all of the Moral Dissonance we see from the Jedi in this tv show, stuff like this from the EU doesn't seem too far-fetched.
- You know, you really shouldn't cite a article that contradicts what you said; according to it, he gave up his son voluntarily. And as for leaving, kids aren't forced to go into things like the Service Corps even if they flunk out or end up being too weak; they're allowed to leave if they wish, and make their own decisions. Is it perfect? No, but for the Jedi of the post-Russan order, it was what they saw as best. And if the alternative is having a bunch of out of control psychics who can kill you with their minds, I'll take the Jedi solution.
- It's not a contradiction, because I didn't say that his son was stolen from him, I said that he was separated from his son against his will. Which is what happened; the Jedi said "Hey, can we train your son?" Lorn said "Okay, sure." The Jedi said "Great, he's a padawan now. That means you have to get the hell out of here and never see him again. You're fired." Lorn said "WHAT?! You never said anything about that! You bastards!" Paraphrasing, obviously. The Jedi got him to agree to something he'd never have agreed to if he knew the catch, the catch being that he could never see his kid again, which qualifies as being separated from his son against his will. As for "out of control psychics who can kill you with their minds", I can't see how that could possibly happen if nobody trained them. Luke was strong as hell in the Force, but he was never able to actually USE it until Obi-Wan taught him how. As for an example of an evil Force-sensitive: Alexi Garyn. He could have been a Jedi if they accepted him, and he actually wanted to be, but when he approached them they were like "No, sorry, you're too old now. Go away." So Garyn became a crime lord. I haven't read the comic book itself, but from what it says of Garyn it doesn't look like he was going around Force-choking people all the time, and that was because he didn't have the training. It certainly wasn't out of any reluctance to kill people. So Force-sensitives are not a threat to anybody if they are never taught how to harness the Force.
- I have a difficult time believing that the Jedi wouldn't tell him it what it entail, or that he wouldn't know about it (however, I haven't read the book). And there are a few examples of Jedi not doing well when they couldn't control their powers, like Streen, or naturally gifted people who could do stuff like Kar Vastor and Kajin Savaros (Kar was even able to beat Mace Windu). If there's a chance of any child turning into a potential Vader, I'd want someone to keep a eye on them.
- Perhaps the council decides it was not a good idea to give Anakin a padawan (maybe he and Ahsoka make a complete mess of a mission). Ahsoka is from thereon trained by some other knight or master and no one mentions that because it is all a bit embarrassing.
- It's generally stated that a master should have trained at least one padawan to Knight status as a requirement of masterhood, not that doing that is an automatic promotion. The Jedi council promotes masters depending on various factors, and it's made clear that they don't like Anakin.
- According to Wookieepedia, there were a few methods of becoming a master, which were:
- Training multiple Padawans successfully to the rank of Knight.
- Taking a modified version of the Knight Trials in order to achieve the rank of Master.
- Gaining recognition of their service for the Republic.
- It's also been mentioned that Ki-Adi-Mundi is, like Anakin, an exception to the "Masters only on the Council", being that he was still a Knight when he was first on the Council.
- Both Mundi and Anakin got upgraded to Master status because of their aged training.
- Let's face it, if you were the Council, would you make someone as whiny as Anakin a Master?
Opening the holocron
- Why did Sidious need Bane to find a Jedi to open the stolen holocron? Holocrons are operated via the Force. Gee, if I remember correctly, there are three Force users who are members of the CIS, are there not?
- Some holocrons are inhabited by the essences/spirits of past Jedi or Sith, called the "gatekeepers". They can sense who's a Jedi and who isn't, and are unlikely to impart any knowledge to someone who doesn't fill the criteria of an authorized user.
- Tactical espionage. They steal a holocron, and they gain access to all of its secrets, including war history.
- To open a Jedi holocron, you need to think like a Jedi, as demonstrated on Rebels. A Sith Lord or other Darksider would thus not qualify.
Walking through shields
- In The Phantom Menace, there was a huge battle between the Gungans and the Droids. Roman-style formation battle, there was one huge force field over the Gungan army, and each Gungan also had his own smaller shield. however, while the giant transporting vehicles did not enter the force field, the droids did. So you think, "OK, battle droids can walk through force fields". That makes the droids interesting. However, in Star Wars: The Clone Wars, in one episode with "Lurmen" (Anthropromorphic Lemurs) you clearly saw Anakin, Ahsoka, Aayla Secura and some clones walk through the force field just as easily as the droids did with no problem. So, what this means is that force fields can stop lasers, energy weapons and presumably lightsabers, and if these are the very same force fields as the Gungan subs they can also keep out gasses and liquids, but Metal and Flesh can go through them easily So, since we have all these force fields specifically designed to withstand plasma and energy based weapons but nothing solid, why not just use bullets? Or swords? Or circular saws? Seriously, this calls into question the very existence of blasters and any kind of long-range non-projectile weapons! Suddenly Chewie's crossbow doesn't seem so bad, does it?
- Uuuuuuuuuuugh. This is such a common misunderstanding... Okay, here's how Star Wars shields work. Fast moving objects can't pass through it. Floating vehicles cannot either. To get through, you need to be moving slowly. It depends on the type of shield, too. Space-born shields are completely impervious to both slow-and-fast moving physical objects, and need to be battered down with sheer firepower. Ground-based shields can't have this property, though, because otherwise the shield would burn into the ground. Incidentally, the beams the tanks were firing in that scene had physical components; you can see this from the explosions, which have shrapnel. Bullets, shells and other shrapnel would not be able to pass through shields, because they are moving too fast. Understand?
- So, just further giving credence to the fact Lucas lifted a lot of stuff from Dune?
- In addition to the explanations given so far, I am sure that being connected to the ground helps. So infantry (droid or not) will easily pass. And so will an AT-TE and other walking machines.
- Also, Wookiee Bowcasters are not crossbows. They're a type of blaster hand-crafted by Wookiees.
- There are different types: the ones seen in the EU and Episode III where you have to be really strong to use it and it's basically an energy crossbow, or the type seen in the OT where it's just a blaster with bowcaster things on it. Neither is a literal crossbow as we know them though.
Group mind trick
- Was anyone else seriously bothered by the scene where Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Mace Windu essentially mind rape Cad Bane to try and get some information out of him? Windu already had a habit of toying with the Dark Side, and Anakin was pretty tainted himself, but shouldn't Obi-Wan at the least have said "Hey, this is some seriously Sith-like mojo we're doing here?" Extenuating circumstances or not, there ought to be at least one or two lines that Jedi just don't cross.
- If you were paying attention, Ahsoka DID look rather freaked at the whole thing while she was watching; she didn't say anything about it afterward, though.
- That scene was very interesting. You'll notice that the Jedi there didn't have any objections to using torture, just that it wouldn't work because Bane was too afraid of his masters for him to break.
- That scene was probably meant to give some weight to Bane. It took three powerful Jedi to break him. The writers just kind of forgot that the Jedi would probably question such a decision a bit more.
- While I'm not exactly defending the somewhat casual nature of their decision, let's not forget the lives of children were at stake. I see it as a "desperate times = desperate measures" sort of thing. Who would they be more concerned about? The children they swore to protect, or the bastard who kidnapped them and already killed one of their own Jedi previously?
- Then, why is it worthy of an Imperial March for Anakin when he chokes Poggle the Lesser only to save Ahsoka? This is exactly what his masters were showing him to be right. Desperate measures in desperate times my ass, with this mentality they could have just sliced Dooku in half when they had him, as he was the head of the evil rampaging robot army that is currently destroying many lives.
- It's worthy of an Imperial March because that is Anakin's theme song as Vader, and this is the first recorded use of Vader's signature move.
- First in the show, anyway. He did it first in the Jabiim story arc in the comics.
- Luminara would have used the mind rape on Nute Gunray if Ahsoka didn't scare him into clamming up.
- Do recall that the end of Lair of Grievous and Revenge of the Sith make points on the dangers of the Jedi losing their way in the wartime.
Jedi reacting to Bane
- During "Holocron Heist", the Jedi see that the door to their incredibly valuable vault full of Mac Guffins has been cracked open. What do they do? All go the other way, without having someone keep an eye on the vault, despite the fact that Yoda and Mace Windu are already in the room they're going to investigate. Later on, Bane puts on a Clone Trooper's helmet, and sits within coughing distance of two Jedi, one of whom even says he can "Still feel him," and yet neither of them looks at the suddenly oddly-behaving Clone Trooper and uses their highly-developed telepathic powers to sense a stranger in the room. Maybe his species just emits Stupidity Pheromones.
- ...or, they're used to Clone Troopers developing individuality and behaving outside the norm, and he's from a species that, like Hutts and Toydarians, is immune to telepathy.
- If he's immune to telepathy, then they should have sensed his LACK of telepathic presence as compared with the clones. If he's not immune to telepathy, then they should have been able to feel him right in the room with them. Or (Fridge Brilliance?) the Force's ability to sense things is accurate inverse to the Jedi's distance from the target. Light years away, you can feel danger to a relatively small group (Yoda: "To Ilum, we must go."), but in the same room (i.e. hanging out with Palpatine), it's impossible to sense an imminent threat.
- That's a bit much.
- Are the Masters on the Jedi Council aware of Anakin's forbidden marriage to Padmé or not? If they are, why don't they call him out on it? If they aren't, why aren't they? They're all masters of telepathy and reading the Force, and Anakin's not exactly the king of subtlety.
- Obi-Wan eventually figures it out. Yoda may have as well. The rest didn't think of it. They just think they're... really good friends.
- The novel indicates that Obi-Wan always had a certain suspicion, but pretended not to know out of friendship. As for the rest of the council, even if they can read minds (and I'm not entirely sure they can), why would they? I know they didn't have much faith in Anakin, but I can't see them reading his mind all the time just in case he happens to have married in secret.
- If Yoda did know, what could he do? "Fired from the Jedi Order are you"? Not only would they lose one of their best generals in the middle of a war (not to mention a PR disaster) it would push Anakin very close to the Dark Side. I would think that would come to a "no good options" situation.
- If they weren't even able to "sense" that Palpatine was a freaking Sith Lord...
- It seems pretty canon (in the EU, anyway) for Sith to be able to mask their presence (like suppressing your power level in Dragon Ball Z?). In the other Cartoon Network series, it's mentioned that Asajj Ventress can do this and one would hope that Palpatine's Evil Plan would include learning this ability before playing games with the entire Jedi Council.
- Canon? The freaking second movie directly states that the dark side is clouding the future.
The Lawquane kids
- Did they extend how long the Clone Wars lasted (3 years) without telling anyone, because those kids that Cut Lawquane and Suu had look like 5-ish.
- Those kids were obviously from a previous relationship. Not that what the kids look like means much when they're near-humans.
- Or, in the case of the kids, Cut's sped up aging could be genetic. Those kids might only be two, because they didn't look much older than four.
- No, those kids were fathered by Suu's first husband. Cut's their stepfather.
- This line from the Opening Monologue from "Grievous Intrigue":Narrator: Diabolical defeat! Though Republic victories outnumber their losses, Jedi have been unable to stop Separatist advances in the Outer Rim!
- First sentence: They're losing. Second sentence: They're winning. Third sentence (and onward): They're losing.
- Okay, that monologue is a bit confusing, but that happens sometimes when you're trying to go for a pulp-action narration that accompanies the visuals instead of communicating information coherently. Let me tell it slow and easy to understand. The Republic are losing in certain places, but they're mostly winning. The places where they are losing are in the Outer Rim. Understand now?
- Turns out there was a "though" at the beginning of the second sentence and the second and third sentences are really one sentence. It was said kind of oddly, though.
- I am constantly wondering why the CIS invests in droids that are so incredibly poor in quality. I have seen battle droids forget what their orders are, argue with each other, and not understand coordinates.
- I have also noticed that all droids have horrible accuracy, which does not make sense, as any piece of crap computer running a pirated version of Windows 98 could at least hit a moving target with 65-90% accuracy, which of course, makes me wonder why even the more advanced droids can't shoot very well.
- The one thing I understand least about the CIS' strategies is the fact that they never use cover or anything else, in fact, they stay in perfect parade formation at all times like fish in a damn barrel. To make things worse, they don't even bother to disperse or take cover when they get struck with artillery, and their underpowered tanks don't help much either. It does not matter how many units you have if they all have the reflexes of a dead man, the mobility of a wind-up toy, and the strategic skills of most of the Xbox live community.
- The guide to Season 1 says that a lot of the droids are re-purposed B1s from the TPM era, which didn't react very well to having independent droid brains installed. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't explain, like why that seems to be the case with droids fresh off the assembly line, or why these modified droids seem to be the only ones we see, or why they would bother continuing this method if it makes all the droids act like The Three Stooges rejects, but that's what it says.
- Not independent brain? So they are controlled from somewhere — makes sense given the battle of Naboo but why the bad guys don't know immediately that they were destroyed with the last 5 minutes of transmission?
- No, they do have independent brains — they were installed after Naboo. The reason why they're so dumb is because the droid bodies didn't react very well to having brains.
- Basically, this can be chalked off to the Rule of Funny. Remember Episode 1 of the prequel trilogy? The B1s were connected to a main computer, but they were still superior to an army of Gungans. Attack of the Clones still had them as fairly competent robot soldiers achieving victory by overwhelming the opponent with sheer numbers. B1 security droids are still able to arrest Anakin and Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith, albeit briefly, but in The Clone Wars? BAM! They're forgetting orders, crashing into each other and just screwing up. The reason is because now they have to get chopped up for comic relief, because The Clone Wars is a series marketed at 5-year-olds to sell toys.
- Maybe smarter droids were exponentially more expensive. That the CIS has such massive numbers because they buy such cheap models most of the time. Notice how the smarter a droid type is, the rarer it seems to be.
- Or could it be because Sidious doesn't want the CIS to win the war, and the leaders of the CIS don't question his orders to continue using sub-quality droids because they are terrified of him?
- Every stupid decision the Separatists make throughout most of the war can be chalked up to Palpatine/Dooku. Why didn't they fork over the extra cash to pay for enough competent droids to actually hold and strategic positions? Dooku said that the war would be for nothing if they spent the next 100 years in debt (and given that most of the Separatist leaders are Corporate execs, they'd probably listen.) Why did they waste time and resources occupying every planet (like the one with the pacifist monkeys) instead of Zerg Rushing the core and wearing down the Republic's defenses though sheer numbers? Dooku said that with the Republic having Jedi and clones, they'd lose almost every stand-up fight. Why not hire super competent bounty hunters like Bane to assassinate Jedi generals (since they clearly can get in close)? Dooku said that the bounty hunters would either by slaughtered, or simply force the Republic to put in a new general who they couldn't predict.
Boba and Mace
- Out of all things Mace Windu could have said to kid!Boba's "I won't forgive you." they have him reply "You'll have to"? Uh... Smooth, Mace. I'm sure the kid's going to see the light now.
- The way I see it, Mace is saying Boba is going to have to let it go before he kills more people. He could tell Boba that he killed Jango in self defence and how the other bounty hunters were lying when they said Jango was an honourable man, but without proof, there was no way Boba would believe him, so why bother trying?
- True, but he could have at least acknowledged that his actions caused Boba grief and pain, and that he did regret that. It is possible something as simple as that could have saved everyone a lot grief later. His "You'll have to" comes off as compassionless and cruel, something that seems very unjedi-ish.
- Why are you excusing Boba's actions? He betrayed his fellow brethren and wanted to kill Windu. He doesn't deserve to be talked to nicely.
- The clones are pretty much human warriors trained to their fullest potential. They have individual thoughts and minds of their own, and judging by their different hairstyles and armor modifications, try to establish themselves as individuals. Yet, they all see themselves as expendable and that, when the fighting is done, they can be left for dead if need be. This is something real life human warriors sometimes start to feel and in its wake, it usually results in depression, self-destructive behavior, and sometimes suicide. It is against general human nature to put yourself in harms way without there being a chance that you will make it through it and that your life is worth something more (for most people anyway). With the notion of being expendable ingrained into them from birth and with their emotions being human, one wonders why the Republic Army doesn't suffer from significantly high suicide rates as well as clones suffering from the crushing depression their eventual fate entails. If their purpose is to die in battle than what do the clones have to live for? Or better yet, what do they have to die for?
- If their purpose is to die in battle than what do the clones have to live for? You answered your own question. Their purpose is to die in battle. It's all they've ever been taught or ever known, that they're made for fighting for the Republic, so with a couple exceptions (one episode does deal with a clone who calls BS on the whole thing), they know what their job is, and they're going to do it.
- Why do they bother to save each other, then? If they die, that was what they were supposed to do. The clones have a depressing existence. I'm wondering how they prevent themselves from seeing it all as futile and succumbing to depression when a lot of humans would.
- Because they're also supposed to be good soldiers, and a good soldier is loyal to his other soldiers. They're going to die in battle, but they don't have to die pointlessly.
- They're genetically engineered to be docile and loyal.
- The EU books say that the troopers, being raised in a completely military world isolated from the rest of the galaxy, and spend most of their time outside fighting a war, can't really fathom what they're missing. It's like not having eaten candy your entire life. Once you've tried it, you'll want more, but since you haven't, you really don't know what there is to enjoy about it. The books say that given a choice, clone troopers would rather stay in the army and live a life they're familiar with (or rather, the life they have flash-trained into their minds), fighting for "the glory of the Republic", because the point is they just don't know what they're missing that all of us take for granted.
- Plausible. Still, part of their job involves interacting with civilians sometimes. So you'd think that a clone troopers might see a family spending the day together sometime and wonder what having a family of his own would be like.
- This entire thing seems so damn wrong, I kind of admire the CIS for using robots. I mean, look at it. You create a human and then imperfectly turn its mind into that of a computer program through conditioning and forcible brainwashing. If that was in Real Life, these guys would be up for war crimes.
- The guy who commissioned them and ordered the process be done? Well duh, the only reason he didn't is that Vader tossed him down a reactor shaft. The Kaminoans? I suspect Blue-and-Orange Morality and What Measure Is a Non-Human? is involved for them- remember, they're among the least human, mentally, of the Star Wars aliens, from what little we saw. And the best isn't the CIS or the Old Republic (especially considering that the CIS were all about Big Business Tyranny, and both were patsies of evil that were waay too easy for a villain to hijack — robots can be hacked), the best kind of army is the kind fielded by the New Republic and the GFFA — ordinary real everyday people with training. That's the only way you're going to get ace pilots, camaraderie, and outside-the-box thinking anyways, to say nothing of loyalty to ideas rather than manipulable programming. Remember, the clones were just as much an evil Palpatine plot as the CIS.
- Ahsoka's appearance in relation to others of her species. All the other Togruta in the canon have had red skin and large patches of white over their eyes. Ahsoka, however, is orange, with small, stripey white markings. Also, Togruta typically have dark eyes, but Ahsoka's eyes are very distinctly and obviously blue. What.
- She might be part of a different race of Togruta. Not all aliens look the same in the Star Wars Universe. She's young as well, maybe the white patches come with puberty.
- You're probably right and she's a different race of Togruta, but the puberty thing is disproved by a youngling extra in Attack of the Clones. (Her name was Ashla, I believe, which is very close to Ahsoka, but that's an entry for another page )
- Yeah, all humans from the same planet look the same.
- Seriously, what's up with the Mandalorians in this series? Throughout the entire Star Wars universe Mandalorians are Badass Normal characters like Jango and Boba Fett from Attack of the Clones and The Empire Strikes Back respectively, Canderous Ordo from Knights of the Old Republic, and most characters from the Karen Traviss novels, but in The Clone Wars the three-part episode putting Mandalorians in the spotlight portrayed them as pacifists. What used to be a tough, gritty and resourceful warrior race was reduced to a bunch of space hippies represented by a Jedi-dating woman with an elaborate-yet-impractical hairdo sitting in a fancy room pleading for the Republic Senate to respond to her pleas for help. I know Word of God says that Lucas's original vision for Mandalorians was more like this but you can't just throw all continuity out the window to realize his vision. At least the pacifists are all Doomed by Canon.
- Plus this portrayal of Mandalorians indirectly led to Karen Traviss' refusal to write the last book of the Republic/Imperial Commando series.
- Yes he can. He owns the property. It's his. Anyway, they didn't throw out all details. They were retconned enough so that they had actual depth as a culture instead of being a one-note Proud Warrior Race thing. The whole Mandalorian Wars and Proud Warrior Race thing still happened in the past, but Mandalore became a more peaceful planet over the millennia since then. The plot of the episodes is about the vocal "Deathwatch" splinter group who want to return Mandalore to its Proud Warrior Race roots, wear the old Mandalorian armor, and wish to continue their battles against the Jedi and the Republic.
- Okay, maybe he can, but that doesn't necessarily mean he should. When Lucas contradicts canon like that it's kind of a slap in the face to anybody who liked those earlier stories. I originally got into the EU books because Lucasfilm itself touted them as the canonical sequels to the original trilogy, which I took to be just as good as Word of God. Years later, after I'd bought dozens of novels and become just as emotionally invested in those stories as I had been in the movies, Lucas goes and makes prequels which contradict a lot of the EU stuff, as if to say "Those stories you liked so much? Never happened as far as I'm concerned." I don't agree with Traviss on everything (such as her belief that Force-sensitives shouldn't be allowed to fall in love, or the fact that she's responsible for one of my favourite characters getting killed off), but I don't blame her one bit for walking away from the EU. What's the point of writing stories and fleshing out a culture if your work can just be undone and shit on like that?
- YMMV, but sometimes a Planet of Hats is just better without putting in some unnecessary coats and saying they were the rulers of the planet for a while until later they were deposed again.
- ...it's not a "rulers of the planet who were deposed later" thing, it was a cultural shift over a thousand years of peace. Death Watch romanticizes the old warrior ways and wishes to bring Mandalore back to its former glory.
- ...which is somehow better? The important thing is that for no good reason the "New Mandalorians" are now officially the best-known and "official" Mandalorian faction by the time period of the show, which doesn't gel at all with anything else.
- It's just weird, because you have Clan Skirata's brand of pacifism, where Mandalorians keep their armor, honor code and other warrior traditions, but will only fight for their own cause, to protect themselves instead of being just thugs for hire, which Boba Fett uses as Mandalore's foreign policy in the Legacy of the Force novels. And then you have Duchess Satine's brand of pacifism, which is to dress up nice, sit put, and completely refuse to fight at all, relying on the government for help and support. Even if Mandalore switched foreign policy that doesn't mean that they'd instantly lose all their military background and gritty resourcefulness seen in the non-The-Clone-Wars EU. From what we see in the books Mandalorians are practical and... well, have you seen her outfits? She's still a Mandalorian, not the queen of freaking Naboo.
- Duchess Satine doesn't "dress up nice and sit up", she wants the Republic, and especially its Supreme Chancellor, to leave her people out of a war they want nothing to do with. And she's ready to fight tooth and nail to reach that goal, even if it means going through the Death Watch' terrorism, the Separatists' droids, Sidious' machinations and four assassination attempts.
- Also, don't forget that the two factions of Mandalorian Warriors who fought each other in their civil war were apparently very good at slaughtering each other, and that Satine kicked the survivors out of Mandalore and on Concordia, probably to confront them directly to the results of their fighting.
- Mandalorians aren't really a sovereign nation though, from what I understand, they are a large amount of clans that are linked by a common culture, with differences in each clan. In times of war, the clans band together under a chosen leader, Mandalore, and fight together, but a clan can choose not to acknowledge a Mandalore as Mandalore and stay out of the war without breaking the traditions of being required to follow Mandalore. Clans can be loosely or strongly affiliated with each other in times of peace, and no doubt have different opinions on galactic politics or how traditions should be followed. Mandalorian traditions date back to 7,000 BBY and span thousands of clans. Is it really that much of a stretch for there to be different fractions that came about over the millennia they've been around? There could be dozens more than the two we've seen, you never know.
- Obi-Wan does mention that the Duchess has a bit of a "My Way or the highway" attitude, and it's entirely possible that she's trying to enforce the major pacifism thing so that it doesn't just get tossed aside. The fact the Mandalorians had gone through a whole civil war which killed her family only twenty years prior doesn't help. She probably wants to avoid another.
- They were doomed by canon anyway "They will die a death that will last millennia, until all that remains is their code, their history, and in the end, the shell of their armor upon the shell of a man, too easily slain by Jedi." that... is exactly what happened to them. Another quote that was true "Perhaps there will be no new age, Mandalore, no great Mandalorian crusade. Perhaps your people fought their last battle at Malachor V, and you have been dying ever since, a quiet death that will last centuries. And perhaps all that remains will be what I see before me: a man, wounded by a Jedi, encased in a Mandalorian shell, haunted by the thought of being the last of the Mandalorians."
- As near as I can tell, the treatment of the Mandalorians was a direct Take That! against Karen Traviss. Apparently she hacked off some of the writers in addition to the fans.
- It is established in the second Satine episode that Mandalore was a Warrior society as recently as when before Satine came to power, and that she herself is responsible for the culture of pacifism that permeates it now, though she obviously had a level of support from a sizeable chunk of the population, probably because the society had broken into outright civil war. Most of the time when somebody says that Mandalores violent ways are in it's "distant past" that person is Satine herself, and her word should be taken with a grain of salt- she clearly sees the world she has created through rose-tinted glasses and thinks things are better than they really are (and if they aren't, it's the fault of the Republic and the war), despite half her government being corrupt or disloyal, and even her own sister thinking she's lost it. It might be telling that the Mandalorian capital is in a gigantic glass box in the middle of the desert as well- Satine is almost literally living in a bubble and out-of-touch with much of the reality of the planet, as is the audience since we see so little of Mandalore outside of her eyes.
- If clones are "programmed" to be loyal and obey without question, how did Slick manage to avert this?
- No programming or training is ever perfect.
- To be more precise, clones aren't robots. "Programming" here is more akin to indoctrination and strict control over what the clones get exposed to. While you can get a pretty high stability rate with such methods, it won't ever work 100% of the time, especially in the field.
- My view is that all the clones are created the same way, but their life experiences shape who they become.
- Clones aren't necessarily programmed-the inhibitor chips monitor and manipulate their brains. Clones are all independent in battle but Kaminoans never encouraged individuality. Most Jedi saw them as individuals and encouraged their free thinking. Since Slick was also a higher ranking clone, he also saw a lot of brothers die in useless battles, which was the main reason why he betrayed the GAR. It's just that many clones thought it was a privilege and necessity to fight in the war because it was all they had ever known. Honestly, anyone who has a mind would want out of a life of being faceless sheltered canon fodder.
- The mention of the clones being possible victims of slavery From a Certain Point of View reminds me of something that's bugged me about Old Republic Jedi. Remember the "Children of the Force" arc, where they had infants who couldn't even speak (let alone make life decisions) scheduled to be taken to the Jedi Temple? Think about it: we are talking about people giving up their babies, and having those babies told what to do and what to think and what to feel from then on. Luke chose to be a Jedi, but with these babies that choice is taken away from them. And are they even allowed to see their parents after they begin Jedi training? If so, would they remember their parents at all?
- Jedi are discouraged from seeing their families, but not forbidden.
- It depends on the specific circumstances of the Jedi in question. Ki-Adi-Mundi, for example, is even allowed to have several wives and children because of his species' low birth rate.
- Jedi weren't always forbidden from seeing their family and starting their own, that came during the Great Sith War when the belief that emotions led to the Dark Side started. Until then, many children being raised by Jedi were often visited by relatives, and they kept in contact with their family throughout their lives. It is canon fact that Jedi married and had families of their own before then. Also Corellian Jedi were notable for keeping family bonds and marrying, although they tended to stay in the Corellian Sector.
- This is a commonly mentioned moral failing of the Jedi. What I find odd is that in KOTOR the Jedi were allowed to have children, family, and loved ones but later they got rid of this despite the Light Side Exile who canonically rebuilt the Jedi order having a love interest.
- Most likely, the Jedi used to allow marriage but forbade it as part of the Ruusan Accords following the Great Sith Wars. Legends continuity mildly indicates that a number of Jedi joined the renegade Kaan when he founded the Brotherhood of Darkness Sith Cult, so possibly many of them were married couples (especially considering Kaan has Mind Control powers and this might have made couples more vulnerable), so perhaps that had something to do with it.
R 2 missing
- The "R2 missing"-two-parter of season one has quite a few things that I can't really understand: 1. How did R2 go missing exactly? He probably stayed in the starfighter for some time but he can just eject himself and safely fly to the Republic ships. Based on how fast he gets up during the end of the episodes when Anakin finally gets him back it shouldn't have taken him that long to get to the cruiser and he could have surely outrun the Vulture Claw, R2 is very small and the Claw is very slow because Gha Nachkt doesn't want to collide with some of the garbage. 2. What was R2's escape plan when he first tried to get away? He just went out of the cockpit and was promptly chased by the assassin droid that he trapped in the airlock and let out. R2 could have easily himself exit the ship through the airlock and then flown away from the ship or did he search for another way out? An escape pod would only be fast in the short run, R2 seems to being able to hold himself longer. 3. What was R3's mission exactly? As far as I see it he was only out to kill Anakin. So, why didn't he just set Anakin's fighter at the end of part 1 to collide with a star or a moon? Why did he go through all this trouble of letting the Vulture Droids shoot him down? Anakin even pointed out R3 would be destroyed, too, if the fighter explodes.
- Point 1: Anakin's starfighter was struck by shrapnel from an exploding Separatist ship, leading to damage. We don't know exactly what happened because Anakin was knocked unconscious by an explosion caused by the shrapnel, but I assume that Rex was somewhat more focussed on rescuing Anakin (who, one recalls, wasn't wearing a spacesuit) than grabbing the droid — although it is a somewhat odd lapse of judgement for him.
- Point 2: No, R2 probably couldn't have outrun the Vulture Claw. We only see it moving slowly in the debris field because Gha Nachkt is combing the battlefield for salvage. Hell, the ship probably has a tractor beam. As for R2's escape plan, he was probably intending to send the Republic fleet a transmission with his location, but he was caught before he could do anything.
- Point 3: R3 was a spy, simple as that — he just wasn't a very good one. According to All There in the Manual he was reprogrammed to be a spy by Separatist spies at a Republic facility. Thing is, his insistence on Obfuscating Stupidity winds up impeding his mission.
MagnaGuard third eye
- Why does the show ignore that MagnaGuards have mechanism that when their head gets cut off the automatically turn on their third eye on the chest? Anakin and Ahsoka beheaded them quite often during the show with them shutting down right at the moment. EVEN the goddamned guides specifically made to promote the show give this information although the show ignores it.
- Fridge Logic: Perhaps that's specifically WHY the feature was added? Or perhaps auxiliary combat damaged impaired the systems? Further brilliance suggests that they may of not put it in the torso because where do you think a slash from a lightsaber is more likely to go, the head or the torso, based on size ratio? Presume the Jedi is capable of getting past the MagnaGuard's electrostaff defenses for this scenario.
- There's also the possibility that those particular Magnaguards have been damaged in previous battles. Grievous intends for them to learn and refuses to spruce the (already expensive droids up), so it's possibly motivated by cost and efficiency.
- George Lucas supposedly banned the Cortosis sword to be used by Pre Viszla in "The Mandalore Plot" and let it be replaced by a regular lightsaber because no weapon should be on par with the lightsaber. Okay, so why are the Magnaguard staffs fine to be used? Hondo Ohnaka dueled Anakin in "Bounty Hunters" much the same way Pre Viszla dueled Obi-Wan.
- I believe Lucas didn't want a sword-like weapon that could stand up to lightsabers, to preserve the uniqueness of them.
- And don't certain alloys of Cortosis have the potential to deactivate the blades?
Zillo on Coruscant
- Why on earth did Palpatine think it was a good idea to bring the Zillo Beast to Coruscant for study? Could he honestly not see the possibility of it breaking free? Would it really have been so hard to take it to an uninhabited planet and study it there, minimizing the risks? Seriously, while this show has improved a little, it really does mess up the characters an awful lot. Palpatine may be evil and devious, but he's not stupid. Yet the writers turned him into an idiot just to have a Godzilla episode.
- Perhaps he intended for the Zillo Beast to escape? A little more chaos and danger to keep the populace cowed and paranoid and ever more susceptible to manipulation?
- Palpatine is incredibly arrogant and selfish, does not believe the Beast is sentient (or believes, but doesn't acknowledge or care), and wants the durability of the Beast's scales investigated.
- The most likely explanation is that Palpatine couldn't resist seeing the Zillo Beast in person and didn't mind endangering an entire planet to satisfy his curiosity, and Coruscant also just happened to be one of the places that had the facilities to experiment on it.
- Okay, so Dave Filoni says that we shouldn't worry about Ziro's sexuality since Hutts are hermaphrodites. Meaning that he's not only familiar with the EU canon regarding how Hutts reproduce, but acknowledges it. Then in "Hunt for Ziro", it turns out that Ziro has a mother and a father. Hutts only have one parent; a male Hutt becomes female and pregnant when they have a child, stays female for a while while raising the child, and then goes back to being male after the child can live on its own. (According to A.C. Crispin's books, anyway, which are some of the better EU ones out there IMHO.) Not only should Ziro not have two parents, but his mother should have been his father, since she should have reverted to being male by the time he was grown! Again, Filoni knows this. There was no reason they needed to put his father's tomb in the episode, since the diary could have been hidden any number of other places. I get the feeling that this was just done to rile up those of us who are fans of the EU. Oh well, I guess I ought to be grateful that they at least acknowledged the existence of Quinlan Vos in the same episode. If they do the same thing with Thrawn or Mara Jade (who Palpatine might kidnap while she's still a baby, which we've already seen him try with other Force-sensitive babies in "Children of the Force"), I'll be happy enough to forget all of the other contradictions. Probably.
- It was only a small retcon; he probably just made it like real slugs. Two hutts mate, and both become pregnant as a result. Translation Convention will render "one who gave birth to me" as "mother" and "one who impregnated the one who gave birth to me" as "father", even though the "father" became pregnant with a sibling at the same time, so presumably in this retconned biology system, Hutts come in twins, who refer to their parents by opposite titles. Lets face it- sexual hermaphroditic reproduction instead of parthenogenic hermaphroditic reproduction is a very, very, very insignificant retcon.
- Not to mention that, assuming Star Wars genetics works similar to ours, a complex organism is very unlikely to reproduce only asexually, since it would have no way to introduce genetic diversity (save for mutations, which unlike what X-Men taught us are very rare and usually harmful), which is key to survival in a changing environment. There are exceptions for creatures that reproduce extremely fast, like some insects, or live in very stable conditions, like at the sea floor, but the Hutts don't fit in either of these.
- To be fair, this has happened before in canon. Presumably, one of the Hutts... spawns a Huttlet and the mate just acts like a parent, they can still be hermaphrodites.
Jar Jar's intelligence
- In Attack of the Clones Jar-Jar is a sub-senator and is not as absent-minded as he was in The Phantom Menace. His proposition in the Senate is appreciated and even helps the Chancellor. Why is he a dumbass again in this show, which starts AFTER Episode II?
- I'm guessing it's because Lucas thought "Oh, well most adults hated him, but this show is explicitly for kids (despite people being stabbed and set on fire and such), and I bet all the kids will love Jar Jar as a dumbass!" The sad thing is, I'm not sure he's entirely wrong — is there anybody here who was a kid at the time they saw Episode I? What did you think of Jar Jar back then? In any case, as an adult I think it's utterly moronic that anybody would put Binks in a position where he was higher in the chain of command than battle-tested and much more competent clone troopers, as we saw to be the case in "The Gungan General".
- I was a kid when I saw Episode One and hated its guts even then.
- I had less empathy with him than with the other characters but he wasn't such a devil as some paint him to be. Also, the General episode wasn't that bad. He didn't really command anyone, he was just there and the commander clone was more the commander than Jar Jar. Jar Jar just pointed on things that would help them, like the acid crater or the animals.
- He simply didn't have the screen time for goofing around in Attack of the Clones. It doesn't mean that he was any less The Ditz/Spanner in the Works, it just wasn't shown, exactly because of hate he got for it in The Phantom Menace.
- One clone was highly dubious of letting Jar Jar take the initiative in anything, and the clone commander responded by saying "He's not as dumb as he looks," showing that at least one character who knew him did not consider him stupid.
- If you take Jar Jar's actions as Obfuscating Stupidity then The Clone Wars can be seen as strongly supporting the Darth Jar Jar theory. Jar Jar 'accidentally' destroys her ship with a crane and strands her on a planet overrun with battle droids, as well as 'accidentally' stumbling and knocking out Padmé's breathing apparatus, thereby infecting her with the Blue Shadow virus, the most logical conclusion is that Jar Jar is trying to kill off Padmé to drive Anakin further into the Dark Side. After all, it's quite clear that a number of events, including the season one finale, were orchestrated by Palpatine for this very reason. Padmé's reaction to the first situation implies that it isn't the first time something like that has happened, and Jar Jar also manages to befriend an underwater monster in only a few seconds, to the point that it helps him destroy battle droids and then leaves peacefully. Note that this is a creature that the Separatists describe as being so dangerous that it isn't worth pursuing Jar Jar when he goes underwater.
- They took him at his word because he spoke for Amidala, who was against the war. Her voice effectively doing a 180 is possibly the strongest support for it there is, as is explained in the Episode II novelization.
- Why is it that in so many episodes the Republic frigates or destroyers fly in triangle-formation and the one on the left side gets shot down? "Storm Over Ryloth", "Innocents of Ryloth", Missing R2 episode, "Jedi Crash"... Are the droid gunners right handed and always start from that side or what?
- Battle Droids are in fact right-handed; note how they carry weapons. That aside, they may be programmed to respond to a similar situation the same way every time, which could explain it. Of course, the real problem is probably just the same lazy animator reusing scenes and altering them a little and from different angles.
- Stock Footage in animation.
- The animators have a limited budget. CGI isn't cheap. It is part of the reason the battles get better and larger over time; they have more money and resources to work with. They have to re-use character models wherever they can (tactical droids), but you don't notice it most of the time.
Zabraks of Dathomir
- Zabraks do not come from Dathomir.
- Neither do humans.
- But are the Nightsisters human? Definitely humanoid, but they're a lot more pale than any human being you'd find in the real world, excepting albinos of course.
- I don't know about any hypothetical Nightsisters in The Clone Wars, but in their novel appearances (in The Courtship of Princess Leia and various Jedi-academy-related books) they are humans — in fact, they're outcasts from the regular Dathomiri clans. Much is made of the fact that many of the Nightsisters were once respected members of society.
- And behold, one episode later that problem was resolved.
- So hey... where did Ahsoka get that second lightsaber from? And why did they feel this wasn't important enough to actually show in the series?
- Anachronic Order, remember? They can show it any time they want. And what, no ones wants to comment on how they ruined Star Wars forever by making the Force Zoroastrianism IN SPACE?
- Maybe I would if I knew what Zoroastrianism is.
- It's a religion that predates (and was possibly was part of the basis of depending on who you ask) the Jewish faith. It still is practiced today, mostly in Iran according to the people I know who practice it. Some more info for everyone who's curious' benifit.
- I would say it's Force Taoism. With pseudo-gods and all. There even was a Yin-Yang symbol on the floor during Anakin's "test". And Star Wars always had eastern religions IN SPACE.
- Would I be shot for asking how a religion with actual deities ties in with the whole midi-chlorian thing?
- Midi-chlorians don't replace Force.
- While I consider the idea of "Light Side vs Dark Side" as opposed to "Dark Side is corruption of the Force" both shit and overridden by higher canon of the movies, it is pretty clear, that the whole thing is mostly centered around what was going on in Anakin's head. And Anakin, as we know, did not, in his heart, really understood what going to the Dark Side really meant. By the way, dream characters being manifestations of Anakin's subconsciousness, explains those of their strange actions noted below, that aren't already explained.
- She built it during the Time Skip halfway through season 3.
The Son and the ship
- What does
Godthe Son need with a starship?
- I don't think that planet was an actual physical "place" in the conventional sense, or that it should have been taken as anything more than dream-logic in-the-Force-realm allegory for warring wills and such, given the whole "just a dream" ending and having lasted only a moment. Him getting the starship represents the darkside spreading uncontrolled and unrestricted by the heroes, not really an actual individual per se.
- I did get that, I just didn't see why a spaceship, as the Son's (The Dark Side's?) real goal was to turn Anakin evil, not merely to spread (considering who ruled the galaxy right about then, that would be unnecessary).
- I think the spaceship was a MacGuffin. Not something he actually wanted, per se, but something to represent Anakin is fully on his side, an arbitrary end-goal for the symbolic fight to be over in such a way that the mortals would immediately understand. Ahsoka's sabotaging it in a way Anakin couldn't fix probably represents his heart not entirely having turned from their side, hence the need for a confrontation.
- I think that's exactly it. The spaceship, though the trio didn't know it, really meant waking up from the dream/trance/Force-realm: it's the finish line. If Anakin and the Son left the planet, then Anakin wakes up completely consumed by the Dark Side and, through him, the Son is now loose upon the galaxy. By keeping him from taking off, Obi Wan and Ahsoka kept the metaphysical game going long enough for the Father and Anakin to pull ahead of the Son and win.
- The spaceship was the least of that episode's problems. The whole arc's plot now makes zero sense with the reveal that the Father's death would take the Son's powers as well. Why did he not tell him that? That would have ended the whole conflict right there. And why did he bring Anakin there in the first place if the Son would no longer be a threat after his death? And that's before you get into the Son randomly deciding he didn't actually want his father dead while trying to kill him and Anakin joining the Dark Side to avoid a future where he joins the Dark Side. My only conclusion is they were trying to make his logic in Episode III seem sound by comparison.
- The Fridge Logic seems to be this: Anakin accepted that the Dark Side was his inescapable destiny, and was so horrified by the thought of becoming Vader that, to him, accepting the evil then instead of later (with later = black capes and breathing masks) was the Lesser of Two Evils.
Obi-Wan and honor and Tarkin
- Obi-Wan's speech about honor at the end of the Citadel trilogy kinda has a bit of Moral Dissonance for me. So, the Jedi don't want to risk losing their honor, even if it gets billions killed? I know what they were getting at, considering that while he's talking, we are looking at the guy who would proceed to order the obliteration of Alderaan and numerous other atrocities, I just kinda wish Obi-Wan added "And then we risk becoming no better than whom we fight."
- On top of that, it didn't make any sense for him to say that just then. Had Tarkin done anything morally questionable (yet)? Not really. Did the Jedi and clones do anything really bad in this arc. Unless you count needlessly sacrificing the reprogrammed battle droids in a delaying action that gained them all of five seconds (and Obi-Wan clearly doesn't care about that), no. In other episodes they have, yes; burning Geonosians, torturing Poggle The Lesser, MindRaping Cad Bane... Obi-Wan's speech would have fit in just fine in those episodes. In this one, it just seems strange.
- From Obi-Wans perspective, the Jedi are veering far away from their role as peacekeepers, so Tarkins criticism that they should be even more ruthless, or stand aside for someone who is, doesn't hit home. Obviously from an audience point of view, we know exactly what Tarkin means by this , but even from the perspective of Kenobi what Tarkin is saying sounds a bit ominous.
- From the documentary in starwars.com, Tarkin was supposed to shoot unarmed Separatists with Anakin and Obi-Wan as a witness. That was vetoed by Lucas. He claimed that it was impossible that both Jedi are going to let it slip. I guess that they didn't think it through when they put in the dialogue.
- You might need to look from Obi-Wan's point of view. During these episodes, Tarkin's 'genius' is nothing more than an informed ability. He has some 'good' arguments, but most of them are just nagging. This makes it possible that he got his rank by being 'friends' with Palpatine only. Therefore, when Obi-Wan gave his speech about his honor, he probably means that "It sucks if we constantly need to take order from those bureaucrats who doesn't actually do anything."
Ahsoka, Plo Koon, and the Citadel
- Aside from a great big whopping Karma Houdini moment in the Citadel arc when Ahsoka gets away with lying about being sent on the mission, what really bugs me about this is how Anakin and Obi-Wan don't seem to mind Plo Koon supposedly telling Ahsoka to go with them. Let's assume for a moment that Ahsoka had been telling the truth, that Plo Koon really had ordered her on the mission. This basically means he would have A) Interfered with a mission that he was not in charge of. B) Completely undermined Anakin's authority as Ahsoka's master. C) Added Ahsoka to the mission...without telling Anakin and Obi-Wan before the mission began! How the hell does this make sense? If Anakin and Obi-Wan truly believed Plo had done this, wouldn't they be calling him out on it? But no, Plo says he did authorize Ahsoka to go on the mission and the two of them seem to be totally okay with this. Personally, if someone had interfered with my mission, told a child I was responsible for to disobey my direct orders and do so without telling me before my life or death mission began, I would be very pissed off.
- Ahsoka at least fessed up to Piell, which is supposed to be the point where she realizes she shouldn't have come. She also expected to get ratted out, but Plo Koon isn't that much of a stickler to procedure as we've seen. Plus he seemed sympathetic at the beginning. As for not calling Plo on it, Anakin couldn't have, being of lower status, and while Obi-Wan could have, he wouldn't. Obi-Wan has demonstrated before that he generally just goes with the situation, his characterization in Episode 2 notwithstanding.
- So Anakin's willing to talk back to the entire council in Revenge of the Sith when they don't make him a master, but whatever Plo says goes?
- Anakin here has not yet reached that point. Remember, Anakin has made it a point in this series that while he will subvert the council's will if he feels it's for the best, he won't outright question or disobey them. Furthermore, Anakin's outrage in the instance you mention, ignoring the increasing Dark Side influence of Palpatine, was over the fact that the council basically cheated him out of the recognition the position he had gained should normally give. Anakin was too shortsighted to see that he hadn't really earned it, of course, but his outrage in this instance is otherwise justified. With the Ahsoka example, Plo is on the council and a friend of Ahsoka (Anakin knows this). If Plo says he added her, he can't call him on it.
- You say yourself that Anakin was angry with the council because he felt he wasn't being given the recognition he deserved. So if he believes Plo told his apprentice to disobey him behind his back, wouldn't that feel like he's not being given recognition as a good mentor?
- No more so than being saddled with her in the first place. Again, Plo is Ahsoka's friend, and Ahsoka had already expressed her discontent at not getting to go. Sure, it seems like Plo undermined his authority, but it's not so heinous that he would question him in the open.
- As Obi-Wan lampshades when they first come out of hibernation, Anakin is hardly one to talk when Padawans disobey their Masters. It's also possible Anakin and/or Obi-Wan have a talk with Plo after they get back, but just may not have been shown.
Separatists in the Republic Senate
- Why are there active senators and representatives from the Trade Federation and the Banking Clan serving in the Republic Senate? Isn't it public knowledge that they open supporters of the CIS? Most of the Separatist ships come directly from the existing Trade Federation Fleet for crying out loud!
- Those powers have always played themselves as neutral, despite being nothing of the sort, and were generally careful enough to avoid fully allying with the Separatists. Certain individuals within the organizations did support it, yes, but the regime as a whole pretended not to condone such acts.
- That is what Lott Dod said. He forgets about the fact that "certain individuals" equals the LEADER of the whole Federation! There were battles on Neimoidia and Muunilist, did the Republic forget about them? And, like the above said, the whole CIS fleet consists of Trade Federation Cruisers & Command ships and Banking Clan Frigates & Destroyers!
- Filoni talked about this in a video commentary for the Umbara arc. The main ship of the CIS fleet in the episodes was at first a Doughnut (the big federation ships from TPM) but Lucas changed it to a new kind of ship as he found the the ships belonged to the Trade Federation and not the CIS. Which brought up the question why this kind of ship is used by the CIS in ROTS, which Filoni explained by saying that at this point in time the corporations didn't even try to hide the fact that they are part of the CIS. This still doesn't explain why the CIS used the Donuts in many episodes of season 1 and 2. Another point he brought up was that in AOTC Obi-Wan overheard a board meeting where the corporations agreed to selling the CIS their armies but this is a lie as the dialogue of that scene made it obvious that the corporations agreed to joining their private armies (the ones they normally used as security for their trade shipping or debt collectors as evidenced by the Trade Federations actions in TPM) to make the separatist army. In the end it seems that George got the idea to make the corporations and the CIS separate years after the movies and halfway through season 2 and is too lazy to work out an explanation.
- Doesn't he claim that Gunray is a facist with his own resources?
Making new clones
- I'm curious, in "Pursuit of Peace", they mention they intend to make millions of new clones. Ignoring clone number issues, how is making new clones going to help? It takes the better part of a decade to grow and train a clone and they need them right now. Do they have spare clones lying around in case they ever need extras?
- It seemed to me that they wanted to make the army bigger on average (like instead of 3 million clones at the fronts now 4.5 million). Clones are dying all the time and as it looks in several of the episodes, comics, whatever set on Kamino like that they produce clones constantly anyway, ordering soldiers in waves doesn't make any sense.
- So... you're agreeing with my statement that ordering a bunch of extra clones is kinda pointless because it'll take 10 years to grow them, or that they have lots of extra clones on hand just in case there's a need to spontaneously ramp up production (meaning there are countless clones who may be trained from birth for potentially pointless reasons, unless the Kaminoans train them as mercenaries)?
- The second. The clones are produced all the time so there clearly is no wave system like the Republic buying 3 million clones and when the new law from "Pursuit of Peace" is passed they order a second wave with 1 million. In the time these clones need to be made the current army is already destroyed and the Confederacy rules the galaxy. The Republic didn't plan that far ahead and probably thought the war would last more than only three years. If the war ended abruptly with the Republic winning they probably would have used the remaining clones much the same way as the Empire: As police and armies when the separatist-remnants start to rebel again.
- Do remember as well that a new "batch" of clones is ready every year effectively.
- In "Senate Spy", Lott Dod is immediately able to produce an antidote for a poison administered to Padmé... they never specified the poison. How would he know what to give her? Couldn't Padmé level murder charges against him for this... like, they have direct evidence that he was involved in a plot to kill her, not circumstantial evidence done through minions like he normally does.
- Could have been a multi-/all-purpose antidote?
- Ahsoka Dual Wielding. I mean, isn't supposed that Dual Wielding is banned for Jedi, since it goes against their philosophy of "fight for defend yourself or others, but not for attack"?
- Since when? Jedi are not stupid and know that you can't just defend yourself but also attack to beat or kill enemy. In many places in EU are mentioned that, even Jedi Guardians are all about attack (just play KOTOR). And I don't understand why Dual Wielding is more attack and less about defense.
- By the events of TCW, dual-wielding and using dual-bladed lightsabers were phased out of the Jedi Order because they were too violent and deadly. During KOTOR, this decision had not been made yet. If I remember correctly, this happened around the end of the New Sith Wars, or 1000 BBY. Clearly, the Sith don't give a crap. However, certain Jedi still practiced dual-wielding, such as Sora Bulq, though he later betrayed the Order, in a possible justification of this.
- Then there's potential Fridge Brilliance. Maybe it's a hint of an upcoming FaceHeel Turn. Let's face it, we all know that one way or another, Anakin and Ahsoka's friendship doesn't end on a happy note.
- It may be possible that the Jedi Order tends to overlook some things during such giant galactic wars.
- Jar'Kai isn't banned by the Jedi Order. It's just a rare fighting style that not many Jedi practice. Joclad Danva can be seen in the background of the Battle of Geonosis in Episode II using two lightsabers.
- Anakin is able to deflect blaster bolts underwater. Even if he draws on the Force to speed himself up, is it really possible to move your weapon through the water that fast? I would think not.
- Lightsabers don't have any weight, just the handle. You couldn't swing a sword like that, but a lightsaber would be easy to swing.
- Maybe so, but wouldn't the water slow down the movement of his arm?
- Somewhat, but not enough that he couldn't compensate.
- I'm more annoyed they didn't animate bubbles of heat off the saber. Or even acknowledge that most sabers short out in water.
- I was bugged by the fact that blasters as well work perfectly fine underwater. I thought they should make special underwater energy weapons (like XCOM 2's Gausses and Sonics) or at least a special model of multi-environment blaster.
- Actually, the blasters used in the Mon Cala arc are special models designed to work underwater.
- Anakin loses his helmet in a fight with a Quarren. He watches it sink further and further away as he holds his breath, and he swims after it. Why not just Force-pull it back to himself?
- Probably because he had to concentrate on holding his breath, blocking blaster bolts, and fighting off melee attacks.
- That he did, but we've often seen Jedi use a Force-push in the heat of battle where they had to worry about avoiding attacks. So you'd think that pulling would be just as effortless, and would perhaps take less effort than frantically swimming after the helmet. It would also only take a second or two.
- Jedi almost universally stop to do a Force push, and that usually takes a moment. How long would it take him to concentrate on pulling an object through water with all that battle going around him? More chance he'd be shot.
- Just how old is Dengar now? Was Han 8 when they had their swoop race or something? Or did all the stuff with him getting his head impaled and receiving cyborg parts not happen until after the Clone Wars?
- This is another example of either George Lucas or his daughter (who wrote the episode) telling any fans of the EU in their audience that none of the stories they read ever canonically happened. It's frustrating.
- Now hold on, that doesn't mean they can't fix it; look what happened with Boba Fett's original 1996 origin story. It took about a decade, but they eventually made enough retcons to bring it back into canon without conflicting the new stuff. I'm confident they can do the same with Dengar. It was only his age that was bugging me; he'd have to be, like, in his 50's or something by ESB now. But, then again, if Karen Traviss can have octogenarian Boba Fett running around training Jedi to fight their Sith brothers, I'm sure Dengar's no less lively.
- I guess they could do something like say "Oh, that was actually Dengar Senior, and the Dengar who swoop-raced Han Solo is like ten years old or whatever just like Han at the time the show is taking place," or say "Oh, the Dengar seen in ESB modeled himself after this earlier guy because of his reputation," but they really shouldn't have to. I've said before and will say again that when The Thrawn Trilogy came out it was touted by Lucasfilm as the continuation of the story and that fans were being given Episodes 7, 8, 9, and so on. Then Lucas went and made some more movies and now this tv show, and he goes "Actually, no, I'll contradict those stories as much as I want to because despite what I told you before, they don't matter. And I really don't care if this rubs fans who think they do matter the wrong way." That's the real reason we're seeing an adult Dengar (and one who is capable of lust, at that) in the Clone Wars, because both George and Katie Lucas just did not give a shit about the story established for him in the EU. If you asked George, he'd probably tell you that Dengar never raced Han, never crashed and got injured, never got rebuilt into a cyborg killing machine by the Empire, none of it...or that all of that stuff happened in some parallel universe. It's the same as asking why the majority of Mandalorians in the Clone Wars era are completely unlike the Mandalorians from the books, comics, and video games; there is no reason or explanation for it, other than "Those other stories don't matter, because they were not written by me, George Lucas."
- There is no continuity error regarding Dengar. It is explicitly stated that he has his crash during the time of the Empire, and that it was Imperial scientists that revived him. Also, other then mentioning that he grew up in a swoop gang on Corellia, there is literally nothing on him before his crash, so there is no continuity error.
- To play Devil's Advocate here, as nice as it would be to have them honor every EU source, one cannot reasonably expect them to have read every single one (or looked it up on Wookiepedia). There's a lot of them, after all. I read the one about Dengar, but I honestly can't even remember the title of the book. If the writers went out of there way to make sure they didn't disrupt any continuity, they'd never get any work done. More importantly, they'd never get any cameos that cause just as much "hey, I know that guy" as "OMG they changed his backstory, grrrrrr!" And frankly, when you start out a series with Anakin getting an apprentice who disappeared in a mere three years, it's better to just not take these things too seriously.
- And besides that, you gotta imagine Mr. Chee is hard at work trying to come up with some kind of fix right now. I fully expect Dengar's backstory to be retconned so as to make sense again by the time the next round of Essential Guides comes out, just like what happened with the New Mandalorians.
- In fact, with the announcement of a new Essential Guide to Characters coming out in summer 2012, it's likely that we'll see closure on the Dengar matter pretty soon.
- George Lucas has repeatedly called the Expanded Universe a parallel universe. I think the idea that the EU is the canonical expansion of the movies was a combination of miscommunication on some high level people and wishful thinking. I remember him saying about how there wasn't really a story after the second Death Star blew up, how Han and Leia got married, Leia probably became a senator, and Han is grilling burgers on a barbecue (I'd say no interesting story. The Empire probably didn't just roll over and take it, and there probably was years of mop-up, but the Empire never had the kinds of resurgence in his vision that it did in the EU).
- And pretty much every time Lucas said that, Leland Chee replied, "No, they are the same story, keep listening for new Holocron updates". Lucasfilm clearly can't even agree internally on what is or isn't canon. I'm certainly not one to constantly put down George the way so many others tend to, but I'd say it's best for people to just pick and choose for themselves whichever version they want to follow...and I'm pretty sure the majority will go for Chee's version.
- Actually, in 2006, Chee mentioned on the boards that there is a "Films only" and "Films and EU" world (he said that while he considers the "Films and EU" to be more official, he's openly admitting bias due to his position and that it falls under the opinion of the individual fan).
- The latter is actually what I was referring to — his preference for the "Films and EU" world, which seems to be the version most online fans accept. He's still in a position of authority within the franchise, so his words hold weight.
- Yeah, but George Lucas seems to hold the other position, and by any right, shouldn't his word hold even more weight? I'm also more arguing against people who are aggravated with Lucas for not adhering strictly to the Films+EU vision like it's some sort of betrayal. This is despite Lucas publicly and repeatedly stating he never intended to (with statements like "parallel world" and "the Emperor doesn't get cloned"). This is in stark contrast to a previous statement where someone is complaining Lucas said something along the lines of "Actually, no, I'll contradict those stories as much as I want to because despite what I told you before, they don't matter." I feel that position is disingenuous because Lucas never went back on his word. His word was simply that he never held the position that the EU was canon in his view in the first place. Despite this, people either missed, misinterpreted, or flat out ignored what he said in favor of what they'd have liked to hear him say, then got all bent out of shape because they say he was being inconsistent.
Maul's broken lightsaber
- How did Savage come into possession of Maul's broken lightsaber?
- Maul had it with him when he made his way to the cave, then left it there as he went off the deep end. Savage picked it up before they left, so he could give it back to Maul once he was well again.
- Anyone know how Boba got out of jail in between "Deception" and "Bounty"? You'd think that that would be somewhat important to mention...
- My best guess would be that he escaped during the prison riot.
- So in "Bound for Rescue", Grievous boards Obi-Wan's cruiser, forcing the Republic to abandon the ship. Grievous reaches the bridge and finds a message Obi-Wan left, telling him he intends to arm the self-destruct, so immediately Grievous evacuates and just makes it to safety in time. Why does no-one bring up the very obvious point that if Obi-Wan hadn't left the message, Grievous probably wouldn't have left and would have been killed in the blast? They would have been rid of one of their worst enemies! And don't tell me that would have been "un-Jedi-like", because in Revenge of the Sith, the council dispatched Obi-Wan specifically to assassinate Grievous. From now on, any Jedi whom Grievous kills? That's partially on Obi-Wan.
- He doesn't think clearly during this battle. The Republic fleet shouldn't have engaged the superior Separatist fleet at all; instead, they should have jumped to hyperspace and gotten out of there, saved the kids and then returned with a fleet capable of taking on the enemy. And the boarding party would have been no problem if they had bothered to close the hangar doors.
- Obi-Wan wanted Grievous off the ship, before he had a chance to download anything from the computers. Remember Grievous is a cyborg, he's able to download any information inside his memory. This means if Grievous connected himself to the cruiser's computers, he would've found out about the self-destruction in time and would've escaped anyway, but he also could've gained vital information about the Republic's plans. Since Obi-Wan couldn't risk that, he played on Grievous being a Dirty Coward, and warned him before he had a chance to connect himself to the computers. By the way, the hangar doors weren't closed, because they have been damaged, presumably when they were opened for the launch of a fighter squadron.
- In "The Jedi Who Knew Too Much", three clones are found dead. Rex states that he doesn't believe Ahsoka would do such a thing. Anakin contacts her and she states that someone is setting her up (which Anakin says he believes), but doesn't believe he can help her. Rex, who heard this entire conversation, then immediately orders all clones to find her, claiming that she did kill those three clone troopers. Bwuh?
- Rex has to cover his bases, and he knew he couldn't say that in front of Anakin. Deep down he probably does believe she's innocent, but the man has dealt with rogue Jedi before.
Ventress retrieving her saber
- Ventress lost one of her lightsabers while fighting Savage and Maul in "Revenge", yet when she appears in "To Catch a Jedi", she has both blades. So, how did she get her other lightsaber back?
- She does have both in the shuttle when they escape, so one could assume she managed to grab it on the way out (or it's an animation error). Alternatively, maybe she just made another.
- In the season 5 finale it turns out Barriss Offee set up the bomb because she felt the Jedi lost their way and are fighting a war that puts civilians in senseless danger. So she forces a civilian to set up a bomb through her own husband. A bomb that explodes in a part of the Jedi temple where mostly other civilians work? Couldn't she just blow up a more strategic and motive-related part like a war briefing room or at least some of the corridors where only Jedi walk around?
- It was more about the Jedi becoming bad than the civilians they're supposed to protect (all things considered, the Jedi still do that). And the choice of targets is important. The area bombed was a staging area. It held gunships, troops, equipment, etc. The idea wasn't just to bomb the Jedi, it was to create a situation that would separate the Jedi from the war, and the jurisdictional friction created by bombing clones and Jedi alike was key in that. If she had bombed some internal area of the temple, it would be treated as an attack on the Jedi, an internal affair. Likewise, bombing a regular military area where some Jedi happen to be would make their deaths collateral. Think about it. Tarkin was going on about Jedi getting removed from positions of power. Barriss' plan would have done exactly what she wanted if not for Ventress.
- During the Citadel arc, Osi Sobeck has some type of magnetic device activated on the ceiling. This causes the Jedi's lightsabers, the clones' blasters, and Anakin's cybernetic hand (with Anakin attached) to fly upwards and stick to the ceiling. This begs the question, why would any of that technology be composed of magnetic substances, especially considering that even now we have various ceramic and plastic composites that are all around better materials for such things. A large magnet could neutralize a battle droid, disarm a clone, Jedi, bounty hunter, basically anyone with a blaster, or even totally disable Darth Vader. It seems that this sort of a weakness would have been avoided at all costs.
- There are situations in which metal is a necessity, and blasters, lightsabers, and Anakin's advanced mechanical hand are all examples. Even if we were to charitably assume you could make the casing out of ceramics and plastics, you sure as hell would not be shooting superheated plasma or insulating potentially volatile power cores with anything but metal. Even Anakin's arm must need metal given the fact that it is as articulate as his real hand would be and must be able to weather the kind of stress he puts on it.
- You might want to ask, why didn't the clones' armour get pulled up? Their armour is probably partly metal. By the way, you see in the arc with the Jedi kids being trained that lightsabers can be made partly out of wood.
- Clone armour is made of a plastoid alloy.
Padme; and Ahsoka
- How does Padme; see Ahsoka. I mean, we all know that Anakin sees her somewhere between a little sister and a daughter. How does his wife view her?
- Probably neutrally or like family, since there's an age difference between Anakin and Padme; of about five years, and he was awkward with in AOTC since he liked her and would probably describe "Snips" in terms similar to Obi-Wan.
- Well, Padme and Ashoka interact fairly frequently and get along very well, so at the very least she sees her as a friend, and like Anakin Padme is something of a mentor to her as well.
- "The Hidden Enemy": I never understood why collecting the fingers of destroyed droids made Chopper look so bad and suspicious. What exactly is the problem with that? Why is it forbidden?
- It's analogous to collecting the body parts of fallen enemies. In real life it's done to people and therefore a sign the collecting soldier is unstable or insane, however something gets lost when you try to translate the scenario but swap out living opponents with robotic ones.
- When Barriss knocks out Ventress and takes her mask and lightsabers, why didn't she just silence her and kill her? If she did, Ahsoka would've been found guilty and gotten the death penalty.
- Probably she didn't think Anakin will try to find Ventress, or even if he did, he wouldn't believe anything she said. Alternately, she wanted to leave a small chance for Ahsoka to escape punishment.
- When Anakin killed Tal Merrik in cold blood in "Voyage of Temptation" to save Obi-Wan and Satine, all Anakin got was a slap on the hand and "tsk" from them. What gives? Anakin shouldn't feel remorse for what he did to the Tusken Raiders, then.
- Those were two completely and utterly different scenarios in every single meaningful way.
- Yes, I know that the Tusken Raiders slaughter was based off of revenge of his mother who died in his arms, and it's his first major step toward the Dark Side, but never the less, in both instances they were both killed in cold blood. And I feel like they seriously down played the reality of what he did.
- And the Tusken Raiders he killed included women and children in their own homes that probably had nothing to do with what happened to his mother, while Merrik was holding a detonator and threatening to kill everyone on the ship. Again: Completely and utterly different situations in every meaningful way.
- Who decided to let Anakin go on the mission to Zygerria? Are the Jedi trying to make Anakin snap?
- Anakin may never have been all right in the head, but he's never been indicated to be suffering PTSD from his enslavement, and as a Jedi, he's almost certainly encountered slavery in the galaxy before. He has no trouble returning to Tatooine or even negotiating with Hutts, who were the very beings who sold him and his mother in the first place. Plus, it's entirely possible that high command simply assigned the most convenient Jedi at the time, and Anakin never complained.
- He was probably assigned because he was a former slave and thus, knows exactly what to expect from people like this and how to behave around them (compare Ashoka, who kept slipping up). For the most part he acted entirely at ease throughout the mission, which is admittedly at odds with how he behaved in the first episode of the arc (barely contained murderous rage) but outside of that he proved that he was a perfectly fine choice for the mission.
- Do any of the commanders have any grasp of military tactics? You have troops charging across open ground in full view of entrenched opposition, artillery canons that are perilously close to the front lines and abandoning cover to rush towards an advancing opponent? Is that why the troopers turned on the Jedi so quickly? To ensure that they wouldn't be committed to any more foolish maneuvers.
- The galaxy had known peace for a thousand years, so no, probably not; they were in all likelihood reinventing military strategy as they went.
Rushing a Jedi
- Anyone else find it a bit odd during the "Carnage of Krell" episode that clone troopers rush towards a lightsaber-wielding Jedi? You have guns for a reason! Shoot at him from a distance?
- Not really; remember, use a blaster on a Jedi, he bounces your shots back at you with his lightsaber. What they did was stupid, but the blasters were probably a riskier alternative, since closing distance is more likely to result in being de-limbed than fatally hit by your own blaster bolt.
- You have to keep in mind that at this point arresting a Jedi for genuine treason is completely unprecedented. Rex and the rest of the troopers never expected to find themselves in this situation, and they don't have time to call for help. They're doing the best they can in a situation they weren't expecting and were understandably unprepared for.
The Son's redeeming qualities
- Does anyone find it strange that the Son, considered to be the physical manifestation of the Dark Side of the Force itself, including treachery, hatred, viciousness, and anger, somehow shows more redeeming qualities than almost any canon Dark Side user, save Vader of course. He went into a Villainous Breakdown when the Daughter and Father got killed.
- The Sith are not all lightning-flinging sociopaths. Just because Sidious has never cared about anyone doesn't mean all Sith are like that. Anakin, Revan and countless others have fallen based on compassion, and you have Sith capable of love like Darth Malagus. Sidious is considered a monster by Sith standards, keep in mind.
- The Dark Side isn't about being as evil as possible — it's about putting your emotions and by extension what you want above everyone else. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, after all, and if it weren't the Jedi wouldn't worry about romance. The Dark Side is part of a Force which loveless sociopaths like Palpatine are a minority.
- But it's also been said that human emotions like love or compassion hold Dark Side users back the same way anger and hatred hold back Jedi. That's why Vader and Revan fell due to such emotions, and the physical manifestation of the Dark Side should logically be devoid of them. However, the Mortis arc seems to be on the fence as to whether the Son actually is the Dark Side (he is in the narrative sense, but maybe not a literal one), or has just embraced it. It's possible that he had so much natural power that he could be as strong as Sidious in the Dark Side without feeling the same hatred.
- It is never explicitly said that the Son is the embodiment of the Dark Side, or that the Father or the Daughter are embodiments themselves, at least not in these original episodes (elsewhere in the lore it is said they are, but I think that was another character who met them speculating). There is also a deleted scene where he is shown to be manipulated by the spirits of ancient Sith Lords, undermining the idea that he is the Dark Side incarnate. It might be more probable that he and his family are just ridiculously powerful Force users, maybe due to living so long on that particular planet even (if the Father wanted Anakin to stay there, maybe he would have become like them eventually?), and that is why he isn't pure evil.
Hiring the bounty hunter
- Why did Sidious hire that bounty hunter in "Orders" anyways? He wanted Clovis to escape to get off the planet, and while he's tried to get rid of Padmé a few times, he congratulated the bounty hunter for doing his job right when she and Clovis got away, so it didn't seem like his job was to kill her, so what was his job?
- Presumably it would have been wrapped up in later episodes of Season 6. Since those aren't going to be made, we won't ever find out.
Knowing Maul's name
- I can buy Obi-Wan recognizing Darth Maul — even in as diverse a galaxy as in Star Wars with a myriad of different species, he kinda stands out—but how did he know Maul's name? By the end of The Phantom Menace, Sidious has mentioned Maul by name only to the Trade Federation leadership and Maul never says anything to anyone except for Sidious. So where did Obi-Wan learn Maul's name?
- They captured the Trade Federation leadership at the end of Episode I. They could have told someone the name.
- Plus, it's been a decade, he might have learned about him at any point in that time.
- It's canon that the Jedi learned Maul's name from Nute Gunray when he was arrested after the events of The Phantom Menace.
- So in "The Citadel", Anakin and a bunch of other people get frozen in carbonite to fool Separatist life-sign scanners. But in The Empire Strikes Back, Vader freezing Han was implied to be an unprecedented event. Nobody was sure if it would actually work or not until he tried it. In fact, the whole point of freezing Han was that Vader wanted to be sure a human male could survive it before he used it on Luke. If this technology has been around for at least two decades and was commonly used enough that the Republic is able to employ it on a war mission with no fuss over the danger in performing it — and Vader himself having personally experienced it — why was it such a risky thing in TESB? Also strange is that the none of the cartoon characters exhibited any of the negative side effects (like blindness) Han did from being frozen.
- The behind the scenes commentary addresses this directly: Vader considered Cloud City's facility "crude", while Anakin had access to the best the Republic had to offer. It's like the difference between doing surgery in the field with improvised tools vs doing so in a fully stocked medical facility in a world-class hospital. This is likely also why they were able to defrost without issues.
- Actually, they defrosted without issues because they'd only been frozen for a few days at the most. And even then, not everyone took it so well — in the background, while everyone's getting defrosted, you can see Fives falling to his knees and staying down there for a bit.
Anakin and Tatooine
- Why is the mission in the pilot film for Anakin and company to rescue a Hutt and return it to Jabba on Tatooine? Yeah, Jedi are suppose to be able to set aside emotions for their mission, but they're still sentient beings with tie ups and emotional problems based on past experiences. Anakin spent many of his formative years as slave to one of the Hutts, and remained one on Tatooine for many more of them, and when the first time he returned after gaining his freedom, his mother died. While he seems to be handling it as well as can be expected at that point from what the council can see, there's got to be some kind of PTSD. Why would the council be so cruel as to pressure him to return there? And more importantly, why is that not touched upon beyond a handful of passive aggressive comments?
- Its a WAR. Why should Anakin get special treatment? He's got a big enough ego as it is. Being on the same planet should not be that much of a problem anyway, especially since he shouldn't have been on-planet for that long (the crash was obviously unplanned and unexpected). The only thing that might remind Anakin of his old life would be Jabba himself by just being a Hutt. Even that could be avoided if Anakin had managed to get the Twilight to the Jedi Cruiser he originally tried to land on. In that case, the ship, possibly including Obi-Wan, could take the Hutt back to Tatooine while Anakin returned to Teth's surface (or got in a starfighter) and finished the battle. Basically, the film turned out to be the mission's worst possible successful outcome.
- Yes, it has to happen to ensure that Order 66 could happen, but, why does not a single Jedi seem to think that Nala Su's explanation of the Clone Troopers' bio-chips being "aggression inhibitors" is a little fishy? After all, you'd expect damage to such a chip to turn the victim into a frothing-mad berserker who starts violently lashing out at everyone around them indiscriminately. Coldbloodedly and purposefully assassinating a specific target is a pretty far stretch from that kind of behavior.
- The idea is that they inhibit Jango Fett's natural agression and, more importantly, rebellion, so without them they might attack authority figures like the Jedi or Supreme Chancellor who Jango would hate giving him orders all. Doesn't make too much sense, but theoretically it could work. I'm more concerned with how a plot point meant to be an author's saving throw for Order 66 did nothing to explain why the Jedi couldn't sense the attack coming from a mile away. And don't say "they couldn't feel their fear or anger because the chip made them do it. 1. The chip clearly made them angry and fearful, and 2. They've spent the whole war fighting actual robots.
- It's worth noting that at the end of "Orders", Yoda can be seen giving Palpatine a suspicious side-eye, so it can be assumed that the events of the arc raised the Jedi's suspicions of Palpatine. The thing is that the chips, when working properly, don't make the clones angry and fearful. Tup was like that because his chip was damaged, almost certainly by a head injury. He wasn't acting in the normal way for a clone with an active chip at all. In Revenge of the Sith, if you remember, when Order 66 is declared, all of the clones seen simply immediately switch to killing their Jedi generals without hesitation or emotion. The chips almost seemed to suppress or switch off their emotions while they were activated, to a certain degree. It's also likely that the chips, while active, made the clones think that their actions were rational and perfectly normal.
Hondo capturing the Jedi
- I don't understand Hondo's play in capturing Anakin and Obi-Wan. It sounded like he wanted to double-down on his payment but that doesn't add up. He had already specified the terms of his exchange for Count Dooku and the payment had already been requisitioned and deployed by the time he had captured the Jedi. It's not like he could suddenly ask for more once the Republic had arrived with the payment and try to offer up the Jedi as bargaining chips. As soon as word got out that he captured the Republic generals, he'd end up swarmed by Republic forces.
- Padmé has handmaidens in the theatrical films, bodyguards who have in the past impersonated her in times of trouble and were shown to be fully willing to die for her in the line of combat. Where. The. Hell. Are they during the course of the movie and the series when Padmé is being her usual self? Specifically, trying to be either a hero or a martyr — it's hard to say which.
- They served her during her tenure as the elected Queen of Naboo. Once she left office, she lost most of her handmaidens, but did keep some. This show has brought back one, Tekla, but don't expect very many because they're back on Naboo serving the new Queen. Unless they've been fired for looking too much like Natalie Portman.
- Not sure how that is Fridge Horror since their job revolves around looking like the person they are supposed to protect. Every time Naboo gets a new monarch I imagine that the previous bodyguards, in this case the queen's handmaidens, are discharged from service, probably with a glowing endorsement for whatever job they try to get next. Their time as handmaidens ends when the queen's time in office ends.
- They are a bunch of trained body guards who served the Queen faithfully and was trained to take a blaster bolt for the monarch if need be. Chances are the new monarch just kept them on staff in other needed positions.
- Over time that might get more than a little crowded. Personally I'd think the handmaidens would be relieved to be discharged from service. Playing 'target of assassination' for four to eight years has got to be very stressful.
- Who would be more qualified to train the bodyguard/doubles of the new monarch than the bodyguard/doubles of the previous one?
- To train the new ones? Sure, maybe, but the whole point of the Handmaidens is essentially to look and seem enough like the actual ruling monarch. Their whole role is to "be" the monarch while in danger; see the start of Attack of the Clones when the bomb goes off and kills the decoy. So some probably did stick around, but by this point they've mostly been chewed away by attrition since Padmé is like a black cat when it comes to assassinations...
- Maybe the survivors all got plastic surgery and are guarding the new Queen. If they're devoted enough to fight to the death in defense of their monarch, they're probably willing to go under the laser-scalpel for her too.
- That would actually be incredibly stupid, considering the whole point is to look like the queen as much as possible. The monarchs are young, judging by Amidala in Epsode I. There's only so much you can do to hide things like body type, age difference, height, etc. There's also the effects of stress to consider. Eight years of being an assassination target is enough to fry anyone's nerves.
- When/where was it actually stated that the handmaidens are supposed to look like/pass for the monarch? Because the only Naboo-ian we see doing this is Padme, both as queen and as senator, and she actually only has one handmaiden that looks enough like her to pass as her in TPM (the Keira Knightley one).
- In "Bounty" Boba and his crew of bounty hunters visit Quarzite, a planet where landing with a spaceship is impossible due to the high presure of the atmosphere, so the locals are using a Space Elevator for space travel. But if the pressure of the atmosphere is so high, how did they manage to build the elevator?
- Possibly they achieved communication with spacefarers first, and whomever they contacted built the elevator top-down from orbit?
- Or the locally-built ships can take the pressure but off-world vessels can't? Remember that a spaceship wouldn't be designed to take any more than 1.5 atmospheres' pressure differential without an extremely good reason. Even with Star Wars' rather loose approach to realism in technology.
- In "Supply Lines", the Toydarians initially refuse the use of their homeworld as a supply base for the Republic to protect their neutrality. How can they be neutral when Toydaria is a vassal world of the Hutts, who Jabba has already committed on the Republic's side?
- Because Jabba is a crime lord, not a ruler. Assuming what you're saying hasn't been made non-canon in the new EU, the short answer is that the Hutts largely don't have a government, no country that can be attacked. Toydaria, if it broke neutrality, would make itself a target for the enemy of their new ally. The Hutts, however, can just reorganize if a bit of their business takes a hit since they don't really need to control a whole planet to make a profit. They just need to control a good amount of any given planet's criminal element.
- In "Ambush", Yoda tells his clone troopers that because they are all living beings they are connected to the Force, even if only weakly. Does that mean a clone could be Force-sensitive and become a Jedi?
- Yes, but understand that Force-Sensitivity that's Jedi calibre is incredibly rare (the population of the Republic is at least in the trillions, but they only have 10,000 Jedi), and there are external factors that would probably try to suppress the inclusion of such an individual, like Palpatine.
- Seeing as Force sensitivity clearly has a hereditary component, it would be very unusual indeed for a clone to be Force-sensitive if the original template was not. But we've seen that sometimes clones come out with unexpected and even beneficial mutations (ie the "Bad Batch"), so it would be possible.
- The Force comes from all life — remember Yoda's famous quote in Episode V? Everyone is part of the Force, it's just that Sensitives are the only ones who can manipulate/sense it.
Why choose Anakin and Ahsoka for the Temple bombing investigation?
- OK, why would the Council ask Anakin and Ahsoka, neither of whom have a lot of experience as detectives, to investigate the Temple? Why not ask, say, Tera Sinube, who is a) a trained investigator, and b) already at the Temple and retired? There are also presumably other detective-trained Jedi-why would the Council pull two skilled warriors off the front lines to perform a criminal investigation, when neither is particularly good at detective work?
- It's explicitly stated in the episode that the Jedi Council wants investigators who weren't at the Temple, or even on Coruscant, when the bombing occurred, to make absolutely sure they couldn't have been involved.
Corporate Alliance's Loyalties
- So one of the things this installment tries to establish is that the corporate entities like the Trade Federation and the Banking Clan are officially neutral so they can do business with both sides of the conflict. This is why they still have representatives in the Senate. However, when Padme visits the Separatist parliament to initiate peace talks, one representative shoots this down on the grounds that the Corporate Alliance would disapprove. This seems to imply that the Corporate Alliance has gone all in with their support of the Separatist cause. Is that the case, that unlike the other corporate powers, the Corporate Alliance has completely thrown in with the Confederacy? Or do the corporate powers send representatives to both the Senate and the Separatist parliament?
- The Corporate Alliance seems to have indeed thrown its lot completely with the Separatists, partly due their headquarters being on a world very close to the Separatist core worlds in the Tion Cluster. The planet getting raided by a force led by Tarkin, whose orders could have been executed via Orbital Bombardment, wouldn't have made them sympathetic to the Republic.
- The Corporate Alliance is, for all intents and purposes, a Separatist faction—except legally. Legally, they are neutral, hence still having representation in the Republic Senate, and why they try to take action against Skywalker for rescuing a prisoner from their holdings. Anakin was attacking a Sep base to rescue one of his men, but legally he attacked an unaligned corporate location and stole their property. It's a blatant example of corruption, and exactly the sort of thing that was already wrong with the Republic but made worse by Palpatine.
Gungan and Droid Army
- In "Shadow Warrior" the Gungan traitor Rish Loo uses a device to hypnotize Boss Lyonie and have him order the Gungan Grand Army to attack Theed... Alongside Separatist droids, as the troopers learn shortly before the attack is scheduled to start. That is, the same army they fought when the Trade Federation invaded Naboo. Why didn't the Gungan soldiers arrest Rish Loo the moment he revealed that part?
Boarding of the Negotiator
- When Grievous and his droids board the Negotiator from the main hangar, it's seen the Clonetroopers had managed to set up at least an EWHB-12 heavy repeating blaster, the blaster equivalent of the M2 machine gun with effectively unlimited ammo. How did the droids manage to overwhelm the defenders without any cover in the face of that?
- Ahsoka was supposed to be tried in a military tribunal-yet the court is composed completely of Senators, none of which is military. The only soldier involved with the proceedings is Tarkin, as the prosecutor.
- A row of military officers can be seen seated on a balcony in the background to the left of the Senators' balcony as a Freeze-Frame Bonus in the shot immediately after Anakin leaves Ventress to return to the temple. (During Padme's line "look at the facts"), indicating that there were other Republic officers present, with Tarkin simply being the only with enough narrative focus to recieve focus.
- Senators invested a lot of money into the Republic army, so they have as much to be part of this trial.
- What is the war actually supposed to achieve for either side, and what would a victory look like? In the movies and most of the episodes it's presented as the Seperatists trying to secede and the Republic trying to stop them, but the entire "Peace Negotiation" arc relies on peaceful coexistance between the factions and a Seperatist victory being different things. Or are Padme and her political allies just absolutely, utterly clueless about what's going on?
- While the Separatists wanted out because of Republic ineffectiveness, in AOTC, Dooku secured a gigantic droid army with which he intended to threaten the Republic into compliance with his demands (publically, he knew all about the clone army, and was manipulating events to cause the war), including getting rid of all sorts or regulations that his Mega Corporation allies were chafing under (this was telegraphed poorly, but the Mega Corps were technically meant to be third party war profiteers who only joined the Separatists later on, given their appearance in ROTS). Once the clone army appeared and they couldn't just threaten the no longer undefended Republic, the war became more Realpolitik than ideals, where valuable systems would be fought over to exploit or at least keep them out of enemy hands, and the Mega Corporations, or at least the greediest assholes in them, would take advantage of the confusion to personally enrich themselves. The Separatists winning would mean that quite a few demands would have to be shelved, including Dooku's unofficial support of the Mega Corps, since most of the Separatist Council would balk at the proposal, since they believed the Republic was hip deep with the Mega Corps and wanted to get away from that crap (not realizing they themselves were in over their heads comparatively, we except maybe those who were already in bed with them).
Where is Sly Moore?
- Sly Moore showed up in Revenge of the Sith and Catalyst, so she was still in Palpatine's office during the Clone Wars. Why does she not appear at all in The Clone Wars? It's especially jarring that Mas Amedda is always with Palpatine, but Sly is nowhere to be found. Did they just forget she existed?
- Why do the clones all speak with Jango's accent? Generally, accents like that are formed from the exposure to people around you who have the same sort of cadence and speech patterns, so did the first clones just spend a lot of time around him and it gradually trickled on down to the others? Or is it just a verbal shorthand so we know they're all genetically the same? It just seems weird they'd all have it despite most of them likely never having met their genetic donor.
- From what I recall, Jango was the one who initially trained the clones, and then subsequent batches of clones were exposed to those first generation clones, etc. It's feasible they could all have the same accent.
- What will happen to characters such as Cut Lawquane or the Bad Batch when Order 66 is executed? Even though Cut's a deserter, and the Bad Batch don't actually report to anyone, both of them would presumably still have the inhibitor chips implanted. Would they be affected, or would the order not reach them?
- Order 66 must be issued. Cut Lawquane lives far away from the Republic, and he's not a commander. So it's not likely Order 66 would reach him. The Bad Batch, however, would probably receive the Order or be co-opted into it anyway; they're too good to be just ignored by the Empire.
Tup in the Order 66 arc
- How did Tup die? It couldn't have been via removing his control chip like Nala Se suggested, since Fives removed his own chip too and survived.
- Furthermore, what exactly caused his chip to malfunction and made him kill Tiplar?
- Having a chip that is supposed to directly impact the brain malfunction could have malfunctioned in ways that caused brain damage. As for why, there's the answer that's partly used in the cover up about parasites in the water, which could have caused the chip to malfunction. It could also be the will of the Force trying to alert the Jedi to Order 66 before it happened.
Does Maul know Palpatine is Sidious?
- Maul obviously can't reveal that Palpatine is Sidious because Palpatine has to succeed, and maybe no one would believe him anyway. But does Maul know his master is actually Palpatine? If he does, then why doesn't he at least try to tell Ahsoka about this?