Oh wow, this is a mess.
Reading the original description in the YKTTW, though, I'm not actually sure what the trope is actually trying to be, so I don't know if sending it back to TLP would do it much good.
Redirecting the current name to Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario sounds fine, although I wouldn't mind a full cut as well.
Edited by Adept on Dec 10th 2023 at 5:09:15 PM
the Retromancer
My personal opinion on the OP being unnecessarily emotional aside,
Disambig between Unrequited Love Switcheroo, Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario and Leaving You to Find Myself, and yard "character growth through unrequited love". With 1000 inbounds just cutting is also an option.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Yeah, cutting is an option due to the inbound count being low relative to its age. But anyway, I'm in favor of transplanting examples that fit other tropes to said other tropes, cutting, and Yarding any salvageable ideas, but I wouldn't have a problem with disambiguating instead of cutting if people think a disambiguation page would be useful.
Edit: Actually, I think I'm in favor of disambiguating because I'm starting to feel that such a disambiguation page might be more useful than a lot of disambiguation pages we've made, since the trope name uses more straightforward wording than a lot of pages we've disambiguated (even if said wording doesn't do a good job of indicating the definition). Redirecting to Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario might work as well.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 10th 2023 at 4:57:53 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
How sweet it is
Disambiguate
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Hi! :3
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Disambig
Man in the Yellow Hat
Disambig.
There's so much I wish I could take back.
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I've slept since my previous post, and now I'm fully in favor of disambiguating.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
It would definitely be much better as a disambiguation page.
He/Him
He/Him
Disambig
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Since the Three-Day Rule was intended to be a rule of thumb and not a strict rule, and since this trope is in such poor shape, I hooked the crowner a bit early since the wick count is low (albeit not starving) and the amount of correct usage is even lower, meaning this thread won't take long to get out of the way regardless of what we do.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 11th 2023 at 1:31:36 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
disambig
hail, holy queen of the sea, you're whirling-in-rags, you're vast and you're sad
How sweet it is
Time to disambiguate. Calling.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Aaaaaand disambiguations should be done, only had like 50 wicks, down to just Ambiguity Index and two sandbox pages.
Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
How sweet it is
It's done now. Time to close.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Crown Description:
- Break Up To Make Up has an unclear definition that has nothing to do with "making up" in any way, and it's not even clear it has anything to do with "breaking up", or that the protagonist or SO were ever together at all. In addition, the name is confusingly similar to Break Up Make Up Scenario.
- The original YKTTW
is a bit lengthier, though would be considered a rogue launch by modern standards as the sponsor was the only person to reply to it.
- The original intent, while still not remotely fitting the title, was a subtrope of how the page is currently defined — one that's basically Unrequited Love Switcheroo, which already existed when Break Up To Make Up was launched. The oldest copy of the page in the Internet Archive uses the broader definition used now, with the only three examples being the same three ZCEs used in the draft. Perhaps unsurprisingly, 14 years later the page still has a relatively low amount of wicks.
- All wicks were checked, and almost all of the correct usage, if not all of it, involves an actual breakup and not the unrequited-love situation implied by the description, which makes sense given the title and the superfluousness the object of affection would have on the trope in that scenario.
- What should be done with Break Up To Make Up?
All right everyone, it's time for the long-awaited return of TRS's favorite game, GUESS! THAT! TROPE DEFINITION! Today's trope is Break Up To Make Up, and I need you to Guess That Trope Definition!
What's that? You think it's about a couple that breaks up only to discover how much they still love each other and proceed to make up? HA HA HA—No, that's Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario. Anyone else?
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Here's the entire portion of the description that actually defines the trope:
The original YKTTW
is a bit lengthier, though would be considered a rogue launch by modern standards as the sponsor was the only person to reply to it:
In other words, the original intent, while still not remotely fitting the title, was a subtrope of how the page is currently defined - one that's basically Unrequited Love Switcheroo, which already existed! The oldest copy of the page in the Internet Archive
uses the broader definition used now, with the only three examples being the same three ZCEs used in the draft. Perhaps unsurprisingly, 14 years later the page still has few enough references (40) that I had to check all of them:
- Break His Heart to Save Him: See also Break Up To Make Up. Unclassifiable
- Fisher King: In Pacific Mythology, there is a "Just So" Story about why there is a leeward and windward side to (specifically) the Big Island. Pele fell in love with a trickster demigod named Kamapua'a. Sometimes their relationship was happy; other times not so much. In one incident, they got into a terrible domestic dispute. Pele sent her lava out, and Kamapua'a covered Hale'u'mau'mau Crater (her official home) with large fern leaves to suffocate her with her own smoke. When the two lovers realized that their Belligerent Sexual Tension would likely destroy both of them, they called a truce. They called off the relationship for good, and divided the island of Hawai'i in half, with Kamapua'a getting the rainy (but fertile) windward side, and Pele getting the drier and sunnier leeward side. Misused, apparently for a couple that breaks up in order to end a rivalry or salvage a friendship. Note that this example also appears on the trope page.
- Leaving You to Find Myself: Lily attempted this on How I Met Your Mother: When she was offered an art fellowship in San Francisco, she took it because she regretted not having followed her dream of becoming an artist and wanted to find out who she was without Marshall, as the two had been practically inseparable since their first week of college. She doesn't really want to break up, but Marshall told her she had to choose since he refused to put off their imminent wedding in order to wait months for her to come back and decide if she was ready yet. Deconstructed, as it is made clear Lily left behind her lover, friends, and overall stability (her apartment and most items now belong to Marshall and Ted). When she does come back, it becomes a Break Up To Make Up scenario for them both, once Marshall realized a break was good for them, telling her they should continue to figure out who they are without each other, and initially rejecting her when she tried to make up. Lily is left in a dinky apartment and poor living conditions the entire time. However, they ultimately get back together a few months later and stay together for the rest of the series. Not clear, but if I had to guess it's interpreting it similarly to how it's described on the Romantic Resolutions index below? It's not actually clear it was good for Lily, though.
- Love Tropes: Realizing your self-worth after pining for an unrequited crush. Aligns with description.
- Romantic Resolutions: A character doesn't get with their love interest, but realizes they're actually better off without them. Ditto.
- The Ex Index: Same as Love Tropes.
- This Index Broke Up: A character recognises their own self-worth when pining for another character. Despite the confusing tense and implied order of events, I'm going to file this with the other properly-interpreted indices.
- Administrivia.Tropes Needing Examples: Administrative page
- Administrivia.Tropes Needing TRS: Administrative page
- Characters.Adventures In Odyssey Main Supporting Cast: Invokes this in “The Turning Point”, where she leaves Odyssey in order to get Eugene away from her influence long enough for him to make a decision about his faith. Filing it under "correct" but this seems like an inverted Leaving You to Find Myself?
- Characters.Big Brother 2016: She and Jason dated for 5 months before entering the show and when they finally met they made up and became friends. Would be misuse for Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario but it sounds like their relationship was platonic going forward.
- Characters.Bojack Horseman The Main Group Social Circles: "Start Spreading The News" reveals that after breaking up with BoJack and falling into an emotional slump for a while, Wanda has put her life together again, gotten a better job at another TV network on Detroit and moved from her sister's house to her own. Filing under correct-for-an-actual-breakup even though there seems to have been a delay involved.
- Characters.Carpe Diem: This was Trent's hope for him and Burt, but it proves to all be far more difficult to win his Panda Bear back than he originally thought. I think this is describing an attempt to invoke Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario?
- Characters.Fairy Tail Saber Tooth: The main plot of Fairy Tail Gaiden: Twin Dragons of Saber Tooth involves Rogue getting angry and disbanding the Twin Dragons just because Sting accidentally ate the flowers that Frosch was planning to give him as a gift, making Frosch cry in the process. Sting, meanwhile, admits that he made a mistake but complains that Rogue blew it out of proportion. They make up in the end, before going back to arguing again. Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario, though possibly platonic on both ends.
- Characters.Fur Piled: He wished this would've happened between him and Husky. I'm in the same situation with this as with the Carpe Diem example.
- Characters.Guilty Gear X: One of his Accent Core + endings. Insufficient context.
- Characters.My Name Is Earl:
- Earl convinces him to (gently) break up with Billie again so that she could get back on the right path.
- Judy and Randy break up so they can each live a better life. They break up on pretty good terms too; Randy doesn't even feel the need to wallow in grief and play "Time After Time" by Cyndi Lauper on endless loop like he usually does when he gets dumped!
- Both of these seem to fall under "break up so one or both parties can improve their lives".
- Characters.Sing Moon Theatre: In the beginning, Ash used to follow Lance's lead, dressing the same all while rarely getting to sing lead or play her own songs despite being a supposed team. This came down to her insecurities regarding her talent and worthiness, exacerbated by Lance's putdowns of whatever meager contributions he'd allow her to do. Following the pain of a broken heart, she's momentarily paralyzed as she has never had the respite to make her own decisions. Once she gets the handle, Ash blows expectations out of the water, performing her own song of her own authorship at the destroyed Moon theater without the need for a partner. Come the second film, she's happier, bolder and on the prowl for major success. Correct for an actual breakup.
- Characters.Warrior Cats The Three And Their Allies: In The Last Hope, she and Bumblestripe realize that their relationship isn't working out, and they break up. They get back together at the end of the book, because being apart has made them realize that they do care for each other... at least until Bramblestar's Storm. Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario.
- Fanfic.One And Only Son: Another odd example between Graham and Villetta after they reunite. Villetta feels that she needs to regain her honor because of what she went through as Chigusa, but Graham doesn't care and loves her either way. But she plans on fighting in the upcoming war to regain her honor and asks Graham if he could wait for her. Of course, he says yes. Seems to be using it for Leaving You to Find Myself.
- Fanfic.The Crack: Sorta. Danny and Vlad entered a mutual relationship after the birth of their second child, but it's when the former needed a break from the man that eventually chain reacts to them fully confessing their love. Not quite sure which side of this it thinks is the core of the trope and which side turns it into "sorta". It could be Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario, or it could think the trope is straight-up Unrequited Love Switcheroo, albeit one that results in them getting together. Filing it under the former.
- Film.Black Cloud: Commented-out ZCE.
- Film.Forgetting Sarah Marshall: Not initially, but Peter does eventually go in this direction. Insufficient context.
- Film.Rocky II: Rocky is strongly discouraged from fighting again by Adrian, especially once she becomes pregnant. One coma later, and Adrian is now his biggest supporter. What did they put in those meds? Preeeeetty sure this isn't correct, but I'm not entirely sure what it thinks it is. I could file it under Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario, but not being familiar with the movie, it's not clear that Adrian even threatened a breakup, which would be an odd reaction to carrying his child. Filing under miscellaneous misuse.
- Film.Swingers: Mike gets over his ex-girlfriend just in time to effectively reject her when it seems she might he want to get back together. Unrequited Love Switcheroo.
- Film.Teen Wolf: Scott and Pamela. In the end, he picks Boof. Insufficient context.
- As described on trope page: Teen Wolf, in which Scott pines after Alpha Bitch Pamela and has sex with her after his wolf-form makes him popular, but after learning the Be Yourself aesop, he realises that Girl Next Door Boof had always accepted him the way he was. Filing this under being correct as described. You could make an argument for it falling under Unrequited Love Switcheroo, and in fact this is the only example from the original draft that received any more context than when it was there.
- Film.The Break Up, under Genre Decontruction: Genre Deconstruction: Unlike many romantic comedies that would play out a Break Up To Make Up scenario, this couple stays apart—by the time Gary finally realizes what Brooke was trying to tell him and indicates that he's ready and willing to be the man she wants, she tearfully admits that she's too emotionally drained and doesn't love him anymore. It also points out that Brooke should have just outright said how she felt and what she wanted from Gary instead of engaging in veiled implications, mind games and secret tests as are typical in the genre since, as Gary points out, while her points might have merit, he's not a mind reader. Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario, right down to the use of the word "scenario", though there are shades of Unrequited Love Switcheroo in there.
- Film.The Closet: Pignon is still in love with his ex-wife. He constantly tries to see her again. When she finally accepts, he tells her that she is a bad person and that she does not deserve him. Unrequited Love Switcheroo, I think.
- Film.The Love Of Siam: Cruelly averted in the end. Granted Tong and Mew never actually went through the dating phase. The two quickly break it off after their first kiss only to reunite at the end. One will assume Tong will confess his love and the two would get together, right? Wrong! Tong confessed his love and told him that he can't be his boyfriend. Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario.
- Film.The Mirror Has Two Faces: It’s only after Rose tells Greg that she doesn’t want a passionless marriage and breaks up with him that Greg realizes that he was in love with her all along. Unrequited Love Switcheroo. I'm noticing a pattern that, original YKTTW aside, ULS is not necessarily a subtrope of this.
- Literature.Ruby Oliver Quartet: Ruby pines for Jackson in some way, shape, or form throughout the first three books. With the help of her friends and therapist (not to mention her increasing feelings for Noel), she eventually comes to terms with the fact that Jackson was and always will be a jerk, and when he asks her out again at the end of The Treasure Map of Boys, she shoots him down cold. I think this is Unrequited Love Switcheroo, although if so the trope name would give away the spoiler.
- LoisAndClark.Tropes Season Three: The Season 3 opener smacked heavily of this, as no sooner does Clark propose marriage to Lois, he immediately retracts it on the grounds that being Superman puts her in danger. What, all of a sudden? This is Lois Lane. She was almost getting murdered three times a week long before he came along. Snark aside, I'm... going to file this under Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario, though I'm not quite sure about it since the emphasis is on the breakup, not the make up, and if anything the situation as described is almost an inversion.
- Music.Kelly Clarkson: "Since U Been Gone" describes her relief at her relationship being over, even stating "I can breathe for the first time", due to her ex manipulating her into believing they fully returned her feelings and making little effort to reciprocate. It's implied the ex tries to win Clarkson back but she's already moved on and is happier for it. Correct-for-an-actual-breakup, with Unrequited Love Switcheroo "implied".
- Music.Tracy Lawrence: "Better Man Better Off" ZCE, though the title of the song implies correct usage - for whom isn't clear.
- PlayingWith.Altar Diplomacy, under Inverted (entire sentence is potholed to the trope): In order for Tropestan and Wikistan to make peace, King Bob The Nth and Princess Alice must get divorced. I... think this is similar to the example under Fisher King?
- PlayingWith.Career Versus Man, under Double Subverted: The date does become a boyfriend, drama happens that's connected to her job in some way, and then he breaks up with her (or she breaks up with him). Almost seems to be using the trope to refer to breakups in general. Might fall into the category of overlap with Leaving You to Find Myself if you squint, but filing under miscellaneous misuse.
- PlayingWith.Happily Ever After, under Subverted: Alice and Bob decide they are Better as Friends, after they've spent the entire series in an on-again-off-again relationship. Almost seems to be using it as Will They or Won't They?, but filing it under Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario.
- Recap.Riverdale S 06 E 22 Chapter 117 Night Of The Comet, under Character Development: Veronica finally has a wake-up call when Archie tells her that he is proposing to Betty. She realises that she needs to truly move on from Archie once and for all and that she needs to learn to be on her own and start learning how to have positive relationships with other people. She asks Reggie to be her ‘first official new start friend’ and he accepts. Filing under correct and not an actual breakup, even though I'd bet anything they dated earlier in the series.
- WesternAnimation.Monsters Vs Aliens: Susan spends half the movie trying to get back to her fiance Derek, but when they're reunited he makes it clear he no longer wants to be with her on account of her ...er, giant problem. Susan is initially devastated but then comes to realize that Derek was actually "a selfish jerk" who never put her first and that she doesn't need him, especially as she's done incredible things like fighting aliens by herself. Correct-for-an-actual-breakup.
- YMMV.The Simpsons, under It's the Same, Now It Sucks!: The recurring Break Up To Make Up plot between Homer and Marge from the early seasons was revived after Homer Took a Level in Jerkass during the Al Jean years. While it was supposed to make the audience wonder why someone would put up with him, Marge increasingly became portrayed as extremely vindictive, to the point where she began looking like the abusive one at times. Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario.
[[folder:Additional un-crosslinked contextualized examples on trope page, for reference]] This folder is partly to provide a better count of available correct examples and partly to see if there are more examples using the unrequited love scenario implied in the description.A further wrinkle is that almost if not all the correct usage involves an actual breakup and not the unrequited-love situation implied by the description, which makes sense given the title and the superfluousness the object of affection would have on the trope in that scenario. It might be simple enough to rewrite the description to reflect that, except that then Leaving You to Find Myself essentially becomes when this trope is invoked, and while they could hold up as separate tropes (especially since the current description of Leaving You to Find Myself, at the time I'm writing this, a) implies that it's primarily an ending trope and b) focuses on the break-up aspect and not any actual character development that results) the distinction between them could get fuzzy at times. (It's almost a good thing this trope would be Starving without all the misuse or else we might have to include that page in the thread as well.)
Proposal: Send the original concept to the Yard or back to TLP, if it can be defined distinctly from other tropes. Turn the current name into a disambig, or possibly a redirect to Break-Up/Make-Up Scenario.