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Cleaning Up Needless References To Reviewers

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Throughout this site, some tropers have a habit of adding in potholes and references to their favorite reviewers in entries, e.g. "Come see (reviewer)'s take on it here!"

Not only is it often unnecessary, but in some cases if the critic in question is a Caustic Critic it can be used to invite complaining, on top of crossing over into Reviews Are the Gospel territory since these tropers often treat these reviewers as if their opinion is fact.

Per this thread in Wiki Talk, this thread has been created in Long-Term Projects to clean up this kind of thing and Reviews Are the Gospel-type stuff in general.

REMEMBER: This criteria, made by mightymewtron, should be followed for knowing when to keep reviewer potholes:

If it's a widespread opinion and the entry can stand on its own, and the reviewer just helps explain it, then I don't think it's doing harm.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Feb 3rd 2021 at 3:28:10 PM

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#601: Jun 23rd 2022 at 10:26:03 AM

[up]I don't think that adds anything of value. You can cut the reviewer reference.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#602: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:32:50 PM

Bringing up the following example from Radio Flyer:

  • Just Plane Wrong: No way could the souped-up Radio Flyer fly in real life. (In his review, Roger Ebert saw the whole business as a case of Morton's Fork — it would be horrible to see it fail and kill the kid, but worse for it to succeed because it would suggest to real kids that they could use fantastic devices to escape their problems.)

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#603: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:56:23 PM

That's a zce as is.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#604: Jun 27th 2022 at 5:32:15 PM

Bringing up the following example from The Kissing Booth:

  • Cliché Storm: A common criticism of the film is that it's jam-packed with teen romance cliches that were already seen as hackneyed about two decades ago. As Cynical Reviews notes at the beginning of his review of the movie "If you've seen more than two films in this genre, then you've already seen this one".

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#605: Jun 27th 2022 at 6:54:45 PM

[up] That's probably unnecessary and could be shortened to something like "If you've seen other movies in this genre, you've probably seen what this has to offer".

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#606: Jun 28th 2022 at 4:29:18 PM

Bringing up the following example from Love Story:

  • Beauty Is Never Tarnished: Taken to such an extreme level during Jenny's terminal illness that it made Roger Ebert coin the term "Ali MacGraw Disease": a "movie illness in which the only symptom is that the sufferer grows more beautiful as death approaches." Lampshaded in the MAD parody "Lover's Story," in which the doctor describes this to Oliver as an actual symptom of her illness. By the time she's lying on her deathbed, smiling radiantly, she's too beautiful for anyone to look directly at her.

mightymewtron Angry babby from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#607: Jun 28th 2022 at 4:32:40 PM

I think, with more elaboration, the Ebert one might be worth keeping if it codified a whole alternate term for the trope, but the MAD one can just go on the magazine's own trope page.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
DongwaChan from Your soul Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#608: Jun 28th 2022 at 5:06:25 PM

Bringing this up from the No Export for You film sub-page.

  • The popular Taxi franchise has never been released in the US. Instead, a poorly reviewed remake with Queen Latifah was made (possibly with the sole intention that the original series would never see the light of day in the US). To be fair, asking the franchise to be taken over is kind of like someone complaining that they would never see any of the Michael Bay movies. The third and fourth installments are on the Allociné list of the "100 worst movies". The remake however is lower on the list.

Hellboy33 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: I know
#609: Jun 29th 2022 at 9:07:28 AM

[up]I feel like everything after the first sentence (or maybe the second, if it's modified) should be cut.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#610: Jun 29th 2022 at 12:40:34 PM

Bringing up the following example from Culture Chop Suey:

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#611: Jun 29th 2022 at 6:01:37 PM

That's not remotely what that trope is about. It's about a fictional culture, usually in a fantasy or sci-fi setting, that is based on two different and distinct real life cultures.

Only God Forgives is set (and was filmed in) Bangkok, a very real place. Cut.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#612: Jun 29th 2022 at 9:01:08 PM

Bringing up the following example from Informed Flaw:

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#613: Jun 29th 2022 at 10:52:05 PM

That's not even what Informed Flaw means (honestly that whole page is in bad shape).

We are specifically told why Scott is in prison, we see it in a flashback, and then we see him commit a bunch of other crimes and get in trouble with the law a lot more. That's the opposite of informed, that's demonstrated. Repeatedly.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#614: Jun 29th 2022 at 11:24:33 PM

Plus you know Scott actually is The Chew Toy.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#615: Jun 30th 2022 at 3:57:03 PM

Bringing up the following example from Ice-Cream Koan:

  • Mesa of Lost Women has Wu, who pretty much does nothing but speak in Ice Cream Koans such as "A hungry animal knows no fear". He makes Charlie Chan look subtle.
    RiffTrax: "Asian man say random bullshit; sound profound."

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#617: Jul 1st 2022 at 6:23:18 AM

Bringing up the following examples from Establishing Shot:

  • Overused ad nauseum in Tommy Wiseau's The Room, providing some snark bait for the riffers.
  • The RoboCop ripoff R.O.T.O.R. contains a series of nested establishing shots that go on for several minutes, dawdling over the picturesque minutiae of the hero's ranch house and kitchen counter.
    Rich Evans: They had to establish the prairie, so they could establish the farm, so they could establish the farmhouse, so they could establish the kitchen counter

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#618: Jul 1st 2022 at 3:25:01 PM

[up] Both instances are unnecessary, though the first entry is a Zero Context Example besides that.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#619: Jul 1st 2022 at 4:30:15 PM

Bringing up the following examples from Funny.The Room:

  • Johnny's famous "You're tearin' me apart, Lisa!" It's Tommy Wiseau Chewing the Scenery at his hardest. The RiffTrax guys just clapped when they got to this scene, and CinemaSins only said, "There's nothing wrong with this scene — this is gold." Even Wiseau himself thought it was Actually Pretty Funny.
  • This bizarre exchange:
    Lisa: Did you get your promotion?
    Johnny: ...Nah.
    (awkward Beat)
    Lisa: You didn't get it, did you?
    (The Nostalgia Critic: What part of "nah" did you not understand?)
  • Johnny's impression of a chicken, which he does twice — once to Peter, the second time to Mark during the fight scene. "CHEEEEEEP-cheep-cheep-cheep-cheep. CheeeEEEeeeEEEeeeEEEuuuaaa." All while imitating a chicken's movements, very stiffly.
    The Nostalgia Critic: Nobody poorly imitates my favorite farm animal!
  • Mark is mad at Johnny:
    Mark: Leave your stupid comments in your pocket!
    (RiffTrax: With your keys, and your stupid change!)
  • Johnny executes the most hilarious Anger Montages in cinematic history. He can't help but looking totally bored. Many of his lines are completely unintelligible ("Bluddaholewurld!"). He nonchalantly pulls out the drawers, feebly knocks the plastic fruits off the dish, and casually tosses a CRT TV out the window without even disguising that it's clearly a hollowed-out prop. The scene's best bit is the serendipitous cinematography, when Johnny knocks down a picture and it falls over on the camera.
    The Nostalgia Critic: Yah, I'm angry, I guess. Roar roar. I'm really mean and frustrated, hah. This is what angry people do, right? Hah.
  • Johnny's tantrum culminates in him humping Lisa's red dress and then sitting on the floor and sadly sticking a gun into his mouth:
    RiffTrax: Oh hai, gun barrel!
  • Lisa and Mark soon start bickering among each other, leading to some hilarious lines, like:
    Lisa: I lost him, but I still have you, right?!
    Mark: (shoves Lisa away) You don't have me! You'll never have me.
    (RiffTrax: I am unhaveable! I am Mark!)
  • Johnny gets oddly emphatic:
    Johnny: It seems to me like you're the expert, Mark!
    (RiffTrax: And I'm an expert on experts!)
  • Denny shows up at the door and literally asks to borrow a cup of sugar. It's very difficult to take seriously. Then Denny comes back again looking to borrow some other ingredients.
    Claudette: Doesn't your home have a kitchen?
    (CinemaSins: Don't your breasts have cancer?)
  • Finally, we leave you with the film according to Rotten Tomatoes:
    A benevolent, friendly, selfless man who greets everyone with a disarming "Hi" discovers that you can't trust anyone after getting engaged to a manipulative, self-serving siren who seduces his best friend and destroys his life in The Room. Johnny (writer/director Tommy Wiseau) has everything a man could ever want: great friends, a good job, and a gorgeous fiancée named Lisa (Juliette Danielle). But Lisa's innocent act masks the fact that she's looking to bring Johnny down, and her manipulations are tearing Johnny apart. As Lisa informs her cancer-ridden mother, Claudette (Carolyn Minnott), that Johnny hit her (he did not hit her, that is bull$&*t, he did not), Johnny's best friend, Mark (Greg Sestero), finds his resistance to Lisa's seductive charms weakening. Meanwhile, local orphan Denny (Philip Haldiman) looks up to Johnny and needs the older man's help after the teen rips off a drug dealer. What kind of drugs? It doesn't matter. Then guys play football in tuxedos because you can play football anywhere.

DongwaChan from Your soul Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#620: Jul 1st 2022 at 5:35:25 PM

[up] Cut all the reviewer mentions and re-write the entries to make it look like they were never there.

DongwaChan from Your soul Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#621: Jul 2nd 2022 at 3:13:01 PM

Bringing this up from the Western Animation page for Talking To Himself:

  • On Superfriends, Shannon Farnon did most of the female voices, including Cheetah. As Seanbaby points out, if you couldn't see the screen, it "sounded like Wonder Woman was kicking her own ass."

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#622: Jul 2nd 2022 at 8:25:22 PM

[up] That seems unnecessary. You can cut it.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#623: Jul 4th 2022 at 8:24:20 AM

Bringing up the following examples from The Room:

  • Aborted Arc: The film is mostly made of B-plots that go nowhere: Denny's drug problem and his debt to Chris-R, Claudette's breast cancer and mortgage, Peter and Mark's feud, etc. According to Sestero, Carolyn Minnott (Claudette's actress) did ask Wiseau several times whether the breast cancer would come up again, only to be told that "It's a twist" and eventually just going along with it.
    The Nostalgia Critic: You can pretty much make trading cards out of how many pointless sequences there are in this movie.
  • Anger Montage: Quite possibly one of the wimpiest, most half-hearted Anger Montages in the history of film, right at the end, culminating with Johnny tossing a television set through his window. In many ways, the scene mirrors similar scenes from Citizen Kane and Pink Floyd — The Wall.
    Kevin Murphy: The room! HE'S TEARING IT APART!
  • Appliance Defenestration: During his Anger Montage, Johnny hurls a TV out of a window.
    Mike Nelson: In his enraged state, he's able to lift a 65-pound CRT TV as if it were a hollow prop of some sort!
  • Ate His Gun: Johnny ultimately commits suicide this way at the end of the movie.
    RiffTrax: Oh hai, gun barrel!
  • Author Appeal: Wiseau is a proud San Francisco resident and sees it as the ideal American city. Hence the numerous and drawn out establishing shots of the city and its landmarks throughout the film. Rifftrax notes that during the shots of the Palace of Fine Arts, you can almost physically see the irony.
  • Busman's Holiday: Peter the psychologist. He is always playing psychologist to his friends (though the dialog jumps from actually being their psychologist, to just a friend being roped into giving them advice).
    Kevin Murphy: You just asked him to play psychologist!
  • Chocolate of Romance: A random scene (like much of the film) has Lisa's friend Michelle and her boyfriend Mike sneak into Johnny's house for some romantic time. Mike brings a box of chocolate for the occasion.
    Mike: Did you, uh, know that chocolate is the symbol of love.
    Michelle: Mmm... feed me.
    Kevin: Take me to a Country Buffet and feed me.
  • Establishing Shot: This is almost San Francisco Eiffel Tower Effect: The Movie, with shots of the Golden Gate Bridge (both day and night), a cable car, multiple showings of the Palace of Fine Arts and the Alamo Square Painted Ladies houses (i.e. the Full House houses), Grace Cathedral, shots of the Transamerica Pyramid in the skyline, and a scene filmed in Golden Gate Park. It seems that Wiseau really wanted us to fall in love with the location as well as the film itself. Making things painful is that the establishing shots — of the same skyline, mind you — get longer and longer til the final one takes about a minute.
    Kevin Murphy: Ok then, San Francisco ... Still San Francisco ... yep ... I believe we've gone around twice now, thank you very much.
  • Get Out!: And then Denny to Lisa and Mark after Johnny dies: "Leave us! Just leave! Both of you!"
    Mike: [As Denny] I need to inhale his soul before it dissipates!
  • Hammerspace: Denny loses his apple after walking up the stairs to jump on Johnny's and Lisa's bed.
    Bill Corbett: Hey, I just ate an entire apple, even the core!
  • Limited Social Circle: Averted, hilariously. See Suspiciously Similar Substitute. Though that doesn't stop RiffTrax from making a joke about it.
    Lisa: [Doorbell rings] Who is it?
    Bill Corbett: You know three other people!
  • Locked in the Bathroom: Johnny locks himself in the bathroom after his birthday party when he discovers his girlfriend and best friend have been having an affair.
    Bill Corbett: Eurotrash infesting your bathroom? Call 1-800-EUR-OUT!
  • Rage Against the Reflection: At one point during his wimp BSoD, Johnny smashes a mirror.
    Kevin Murphy: I hate you, guy who looks like me!
  • Remember the New Guy?: A really lazy example. With about 20 minutes left, a new character, Steven (whose name is mentioned only in the credits) suddenly appears and becomes deeply involved in the plot. Presumably, we're not supposed to notice that he suddenly appeared from nowhere without an introduction. Word of God is that Steven is supposed to be a replacement for the psychologist character Peter (whose actor left the production), but the audience is given no hint of this; indeed, Steven looks nothing like Peter. The RedLetterMedia Alternate DVD Commentary remarked that Steve seems like an audience member who has popped into the film to criticize the characters. In Sestero's book, he wonders why Peter's lines in the party scene weren't given to an already-established character, like Mike or Denny.
  • Suspiciously Similar Substitute: The actor playing Peter the psychiatrist had to leave production for another gig, and his scenes weren't done by the deadline (Wiseau had prioritized the "football in tuxes" scene over the scenes at the birthday party), so Wiseau went and cast a new actor to play Peter, then changed the name of the character to Steven, then ditched the suit-and-glasses look for the character so that Steven becomes a random friend who shows up for the remaining 19 minutes with no introduction and delivers an impassioned, if hammy, performance as though he's already deeply invested in what's going on. It probably would have made more sense to give those lines to an already-established character, such as Mike. The Flash game mocks this by having Peter get run over on the way to the party by Chris-R, having just carjacked Johnny. According to the RiffTrax, Lisa has Peter tied up in the closet during the party. According to RedLetterMedia, Steven was a member of the audience so invested in the story that he managed to enter the film to criticize Mark and Lisa.
  • Viewers Are Goldfish: Thank you, Mr. Wiseau, for helpfully showing us the film is taking place in San Francisco every five minutes — and oddly, each successive shot gets longer and longer. This has led to an Audience Participation bit where every time an Establishing Shot is shown, the audience shouts "Meanwhile, in San Francisco..."
    Bill: Just in case you were wondering, we are still in San Francisco.
    Kevin: Oh, thank God. I thought the location had changed to Stuttgart, Germany.
    Bill: See? These re-Establishing Shots are important.
  • What the Hell Is That Accent?: Johnny, very memorably so. Wiseau uses his own accent, which defies identification. He claims to be from New Orleans and to have spent his early life in France, but it's nothing like either one.note 
    Johnny: I'm fed up with this world!
    Bill: I'm going back to Braziliromanislovakistan!

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#624: Jul 4th 2022 at 10:21:45 AM

[up] Those are all unnecessary, so you can cut them all. Though Limited Social Circle is a ZCE. You can probably keep the reference to Sestero's book under Remember the New Guy?, and maybe remove the first line calling the movie lazy. And Viewers Are Goldfish could be rewritten to be less snarky.

DongwaChan from Your soul Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#625: Jul 4th 2022 at 6:24:27 PM

Bringing this up from Were Still Relevant Dammit


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