Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

Yeah, I've seen alot of love for Lilo & Stitch nowadays. I've never really seen alot of hate for the movie and when I do, there's usually some backlash so yeah.

Edited by DenoTheSaur on Mar 31st 2021 at 5:23:31 AM

A lot of these MLP FIM examples for Jerkass Ball seem really complain-y. I also don't think some of them are even accurate; Rainbow was always portrayed as being a Jerk with a Heart of Gold type, for instance.

• This happens on My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic on a regular basis due to the Aesop-centric formula of the show. Some particularly glaring examples are:
  • In "The Ticket Master", when Twilight receives a ticket to the Grand Galloping Gala, everypony starts to chase her for it including her friends- yes, even Fluttershy. As a reminder, this was the first episode after the pilot.
  • In "Bridle Gossip" when Zecora, a zebra comes to town and is the victim of Fantastic Racism by everypony (including the Mane 6 minus Twilight and Apple Bloom, and even then Twilight briefly joins in when their suspicions are seemingly confirmed). Apple Bloom later follows Zecora home to see if the racism is justified and the Mane 6 try to get her back. Hilarity Ensues.
  • Discord, the Big Bad of the Season 2 Premiere has the power to Invoke this trope on others.
    • In the same premiere, Twilight seemed to be holding it because she lost patience with her corrupted friends; when Spike had practical concerns such as Rainbow Dash, who was corrupted at the time, being missing, Twilight doesn't care at all about it and makes him take her place in the Elements of Harmony ritual. This fails for obvious reasons.
  • In "The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000", Ponyville's insensitivity and impatience almost costs the Apple family their livelihood. In all fairness, the Apple family were also being inconsiderate to their customers, what with making them stand in line all day only to sell out early and leave the ponies in the back empty handed (er, hooved). Would it have killed them to raise the price? Or set up a pre-order system? Or at least limit the amount of cider per customer per day so Pinkie Pie couldn't walk off with a whole load while the others go thirsty?
  • In "Putting Your Hoof Down" Angel treats Fluttershy like crap, forcing her to go to the market so he can eat his favorite foods. Once there everypony hates her guts and tries to take advantage of her. For example a cherry costs her 10 bits but when another pony buys another cherry it costs only 2 bits. Tomatoes are now 2 bits rather than the one they were yesterday. Fluttershy gets assertiveness training from a visiting motivational speech-giving Minotaur named Iron Will, but eventually goes mad with her newfound assertiveness and starts bullying anyone who so much as vaguely inconveniences her. She snaps out of it when she manages to make her friends cry as a result.
  • "Lesson Zero", where the usually reasonable and fair-natured Twilight Sparkle has an outright Sanity Slippage from being tardy in writing a friendship letter, and resorts to causing a problem in order to have material. The other Mane 6 bouncing with the ball laugh at her problem and tell her she is overreacting.
  • Held by Pinkie Pie in "Filli Vanilli," where she is really Innocently Insensitive about Fluttershy's severe stage fright. She is called out on this by the rest of the cast though. What makes this more noticeable is that an early episode showed her pranking all of her friends except for Fluttershy, because she was aware that Fluttershy might be too sensitive to handle it, a level of consideration she rarely ever shows again. Also her behavior in "Luna Eclipsed" did NOT help make Princess Luna feel comfortable around her subjects in Ponyville, only managing to make ponies more afraid of the now reformed Princess, though she tries to justify her behavior by claiming she was only pretending to be scared in order to get into the Nightmare Night^note this show's version of Halloween spirit.
  • It's also held by Spike in the episode "Secret of My Excess", where he ends up being overcome by a dragon's hoarding instinct and starts abusing the fact that it's his birthday to try and get free stuff from people until it eventually gets out of control and causes him to become a huge, savage dragon.
  • Rainbow Dash holds it occasionally. Some notable examples are a lot of early S1 and S2 episodes where she is very abrasive to her friends, and doesn't seem to care about anyone but herself. One glaring example of this is in "The Mysterious Mare Do Well", though the rest of the Mane Cast's behavior in that episode when trying to get RD to learn a lesson in humility could also count as a accidental Jerkass Ball moment for them, as well. This is to show she's flawed, and she does have plenty of moments where she is nothing short of nice. It's possible she just pretends to be abrasive.
  • The Wonderbolts in "Rainbow Falls". Hoo boy... Not only do they not visit their teammate in the hospital, but they outright replace him with Rainbow Dash. This has led to much backlash against Spitfire.
  • Applejack in "Honest Apple", where she's tasked with critiquing the practicality of some fashion designs and ends up offending everyone who made them by not tactfully filtering her opinions. This has been regarded an out-of-character episode for the normally reserved and humble Applejack, who usually isn't so gung-ho with abrasive and harsh criticism. In fact, this seems more like something Rainbow Dash would do than Applejack!
  • A common complaint with "Fame and Misfortune" is that most of Equestria gets hit with the ball, with even episode writer M.A. Larson utterly despising how the Hasbro executives, the ones who came up with the episode's premise, forced him to write beloved characters as completely unsympathetic jerks. As soon as the Friendship Journal is published for the public to read, kids become over-obsessive about Rainbow Dash while brushing off Twilight Sparkle entirely, and older ponies laugh at everything Pinkie Pie says even though it's not funny, try to insert themselves into Applejack's family life, harass Fluttershy for learning the same lessons over and over again, and boycott Rarity's business because they didn't like her lessons. It reaches its head when mobs of ponies surround Twilight's castle and act like they're fictional characters in-universe, with one saying Twilight's "character" would be more interesting if she'd stayed in Canterlot. The kicker is that, unlike the prior examples, they don't learn their lesson and continue to engage in petty squabbles with each other up until the very end of the episode, with the only exceptions being the newly-introduced Toola Roola and Coconut Cream. This quote from the episode puts it best:
    Pinkie Pie: YOU'VE KNOWN ME FOR YEARS!
  • "28 Pranks Later" opens with Rainbow Dash pranking Fluttershy by pretending to be a monster, leaving her absolutely terrified. This despite the fact that back in "Griffon the Brush-Off", Rainbow specifically refused to prank Fluttershy knowing she's too sensitive to handle it (not to mention whatever prank they were planning back then was probably far more mild than what she pulled in this episode). Some of the other pranks Rainbow Dash plays (such as sneaking a brick into a pony's sandwich, which could easily have caused him real harm) are also much more mean-spirited than what she had previously been shown to be capable of.
  • "Non-Compete Clause" gives Applejack and Rainbow Dash joint custody of the Jerkass Ball. Not only are they as obsessed with competing with each other as they were back in "Fall Weather Friends", they can't be bothered to set it aside even when the safety of their students is at stake.
  • "2, 4, 6, Greaaat" has Rainbow Dash passionately embrace the Jerkass Ball when she callously neglects her duties as cheer squad coach, and openly disparages cheerleading in front of the squad (some of whom probably have Rainbow as a teacher, no less). Even when Yona and Ocellus run away crying, she fails to see anything wrong with her behavior until Smolder calls her out.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 31st 2021 at 9:12:54 AM

• The "Elements of Harmony" example for Twilight disregards that Twilight forcing her friends into the ritual was the result of them all being so uncooperative that it drove her to be a jerk as well, and regaining faith in her friends was the point. There was reason in context for her to act that way, as it was the result of stress buildup. I guess it's still a valid example though as she needs to become a jerk to learn the lesson.
• The Super Cider Squeezy example seems like a stretch on both accounts. It's not really jerkass behavior to prefer a more convenient product to an older product. And the part about the Apple family seems more like an oversight due to their old-fashioned ways, not deliberate jerkassery.
• "Filli Vanilli" and "Luna Eclipsed" both seem in-character for Pinkie being impulsive and kind of stupid. It's more the Idiot Ball than the Jerkass Ball in this case. I think the "Filli Vanilli" thing is the result of Never Live It Down.
• You're right that the Rainbow Dash examples are consistent with her main character flaw of big ego, and thus not really accurate.
• The "Rainbow Falls" example might be valid but is low on context.

The rest seem like they could fit the trope but IDK if they all necessitate being that long.

The Winnie the Pooh's Home Run Derby page and its subpages (aside from Trivia) are filled with complaining; the game's main claim to fame (infamy?) is how hard it is despite the source material, and while it has a Darth Wiki page for the memetic "evil" portrayals of the pitchers that this resulted in, the other pages still have a bad habit of complaining about the difficulty, most of all the Main page. Just a few examples:

• Nintendo Hard: And how! It starts off really easy, but quickly escalates to a level reached only by few games in existence. What, you thought a game about Winnie the Pooh would be easy?
• Reality Is Out to Lunch: The pitches get really weird on the later stages. Really weird.
• Reality Warper: Everyone from Kanga to Christopher Robin. It has to be seen to be believed.
• Serial Escalation: Each opponent is more difficult than the previous, with more and more difficult pitch patterns and styles, reaching yet again and again a new high in unfairness, until they transcend any and all rules of physics and logic.
• Sugar Bowl: Well, a sugar bowl with horribly difficult baseball games...

I added it to Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

I wouldn’t exactly call it “complaining”, but the page definitely focuses too much on the Surprise Difficulty.

Also, I know I’m really late, but I’m all for a Preschool Cleanup thread. The fandoms can be weird, and things such as a Nightmare Fuel page for Ready Jet Go! and a constant hatred for D.W. need their own separate cleanup.

Maybe we could expand it to kids shows in general?

I think a "kids show" cleanup in general may be too broad. It would be better for it to specifically be a preschool show cleanup, which would give it a manageable scope and would address the problems specific to those shows.

These are on Ice Age 5: Collision Course:

• Arc Fatigue: After the herd learns of the asteroid, they spend the second act simply marching from one set piece to another, and don't even reach Geotopia until the last 20 minutes of the film. There are way too many plot lines going on in this film.
• Ass Pull: The premise is that a herd of prehistoric mammals will save the Earth from an extinction-level-event, and it keeps going downhill from there.

That's the second time I'd seem Arc Fatigue misused for Padding. Did the same person add this or is it common misuse?

Also, I don't think a premise can be an Ass Pull by design.

Second this. They are both just complaining anyway.

Edited by Delibirda on Apr 1st 2021 at 8:06:03 PM

Looking through the edit history, Arc Fatigue was added by someone other than Boomerang 123 (the one who added it to Strange Magic).

That said, Boomerang 123 did add a misuse of Narm to the YMMV page for Collision Course, as well as editing the example for Arc Fatigue...

Edited by fragglelover on Apr 1st 2021 at 1:29:00 PM

The YMMV page and some of the recap pages for The Simpsons are bloated with complaining about Seasonal Rot (among other things,) and need a lot of cleanup. Which brings me to my main question.

Based on all the complaining and contentious stuff on both YMMV and some of the Recap pages, should the series have a cleanup thread in Short-Term? Are there enough problems with the show's pages that one would be necessary? And if so, are there other problems with the show's pages that need cleanup that I should mention in the OP if I make the thread?

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Apr 1st 2021 at 5:13:02 AM

Honestly, yeah. I think a clean-up thread for The Simpsons is a good idea. Looking at the YMMV subpages for the individual recap pages, they're just loaded with complaining. This even includes episodes from show's golden years.

I know those pages have a history of ban evaders trying to add entries complaining about Marge and Lisa, ranting about how the show treats them better because Women Are Wiser even for episodes where they're supposed to be shown in the wrong.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Apr 1st 2021 at 5:23:14 AM

I know there's also individual episodes that attract more complaining than others. Boys Of Bummer comes to mind.

A couple of entries on YMMV.Proton Jon seem a bit too negative, but I'm not sure. In particular the Friendly Fandoms entry was changed to imply Jon is hemorrhaging viewers and they're all jumping ship to Vinesauce (he's not afaik) and the Overshadowed by Controversy one seems greatly exaggerated. Sure, the long delays between episodes of his Superman 64 LP are pretty notorious, but it certainly doesn't overshadow everything else he's done. In fact, in my experience, people either know Jon as one third of The Runaway Guys or that guy who used to play Super Mario World ROM hacks. I'm not saying the entries are wrong, but in my opinion they could use a rewrite.

ETA: Both of these entries were added by the same person. I think they may be projecting their disillusionment with Jon onto the fanbase in general.

Edited by Spectracus on Apr 1st 2021 at 8:34:00 AM

Probably. While it may be the case, I've never seen any intersection between Vinesauce and Protonjon or any mention of the latter by the former's fans to indicate any kind of Fandom Rivalry there.

Ah, I see it's from Bowserbros. Oh dear. I could kind of recognize them by the length of these entries. They're a recurring problem editor on the Vinesauce page as well since they're massively prone to treating that page as a soapbox for their own personal opinions and excessively wordy entries about minor things, plus a bunch of misuse-related issues. They're not as hostile as a lot of problem editors, but I've had to PM them multiple times to get them to fall in line with site etiquette.

Edited by AlleyOop on Apr 1st 2021 at 8:26:00 AM

Bring them up in ATT. They sound like the typical "I am the fandom!" editor that gets on my nerves.

Their last edits to this page are from before I most recently messaged them about their issues, so hopefully they get the memo. I'm willing to give them a chance, as they do sometimes have useful information to contribute, but one more violation and it's to ATT for them.

Edited by AlleyOop on Apr 1st 2021 at 8:20:46 AM

All right. Should I axe the Friendly Fandoms entry then? I can re-word the Overshadowed by Controversy entry to reflect that it's just the Superman 64 Let's Play that's been overshadowed by the extreme Schedule Slip. That would be a lot more accurate.

Looks like Extra Credits is getting heat over their controversial decisions. Just a heads up I had to deal with this about a year ago when someone snuck in some Nazi apologia that went past our radars for a few months.

Is there a specific incident going on at the moment?

Backlash over the video "Evil Races are Bad Game Design".

Sure. The Friendly Fandoms entry looks pretty flimsy to begin with, and does read of the aforementioned "my friends and I like the same thing, therefore we represent the whole fandom" issue even without more detailed fandom knowledge.

Vinesauce is a rather popular channel in general, so it's not that unusual that their level of ubiquity would allow for tangential cross-pollination (which is all that entry really describes). Not unless the channels collaborate directly or there's a significant amount of overlap among their userbase in fannish communities outside of places like Twitch chatrooms (e.g. Tumblr, Reddit, sites like those).

Edited by AlleyOop on Apr 1st 2021 at 12:43:16 PM

I am in favour of a Simpsons cleanup page in Short-Term Projects.

Given that the show is still ongoing for over three decades (five calendar decades even), I would personally prefer it to be in Long-Term/Perpetual Projects until about a month after the final episode of the series is aired.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Apr 1st 2021 at 12:55:11 PM