- YHVH destroys the world whenever it doesn't go his way. The player loads save data whenever the world doesn't go his way ( Often, given the series' difficulty).
- YHVH does this to more than one world, that is other video games the player plays.
- So that makes his goal . . . to defeat himself??
- After beating the game, the player puts it down, and thus that world is saved from future reloads.
- No, later, the player starts a new game, resetting the world, because they're bored.
- After beating the game, the player puts it down, and thus that world is saved from future reloads.
- Think about it:
- She has cat-like ears (horns?) on her head.
- She hates humans, calling them more cruel than demons.
- Her soul color is pink.
- In Shin Megami Tensei I, Gabriel was male. In Shin Megami Tensei II, Gabriel is female. I don't think gender change was a coincidence.
- The reason Gabriel is depicted as female is because of art of said angel having a feminine face.
- Time to lay this one out. We know that, thanks to SMT If, Thor didn't nuke Japan in the Devil Summoner / Persona universe. And afterward, in Devil Summoner and Soul Hackers, most of the Abyss demons from SMT 1 and 2 got taken care of... but Team Seraph was conspicuous only in their total absence. If they were supposed to be around in SMT 1, but SMT 1 didn't happen in the Persona timeline... then where'd they go? Note that Persona 1 and 2 feature a fight against, basically, the personification of Chaos. Persona 3 and 4 are all about fighting the "negative", fatalistic aspects of Neutrality. It's about time thematically to take on Law, and an appearance by the Seraphs would tie up a lot of loose ends in the timeline if handled right.
- Consider this: In 3, almost all of yours allies' personas are from either Greek, Roman, or Egyptian Mythology. In persona 4, they came from japanese mythology. I'm going to go ahead and suppose all the personas in 5 are going to be Judeo-christian figures.
- Given that Ally Persona differ from the standard designs, any hope of seeing the "mass of eyes with eye covered wings" cherub and co?
- And the final boss will be Metatron in all his 36-winged and million-eye-covered glory.
- There's still Norse mythology, so I'm hoping for both Judeo-Christian and Norse Personas for the M Cs.
- It may feature other Angels as well. The other main Seraphs / Archangels of Judaism, Roman Catholic, Islam, Eastern Orthodox, and even Zoroastrians equivalent of Archangels appearing as minor bosses or flunkies during the main boss battles. Remiel could even show up and be the voice of reason amongst them during the events of game. While minor Angels that have never been in the series before and the Nine Orders we have seen throughout the series appear alongside Shadows during battle. The Final Battle could even be a teamup of Michael, Metatron, and Satan with them fusing together after they get beaten to become the final boss.
- Or they could pull a Majin Tensei II scenario and have Ahriman (Zoroasterian Devil) as the final boss. Either that or Mikaboshi (Which would make sense as it wants the universe to return to nothingness where it can reign once more.)
- The four allies will use the Seraphs as Personas. The MC will use either YHVH, Satan, or Metatron. The final boss will be Lucifer, Metatron, or YHVH respectively.
- Although they are not actually very prominent as characters, in a real way this is confirmed! All four of the Seraphs are minibosses on the way to the showdown with the final boss, and despite the early bosses taking the form of Lucifer's crew of demons, the ultimate villains of P5 use personae or are entities typically associated with the Law alignment and both of the game's Big Bads are law-alignment villains.
- Who's going to try to implement it? Elizabeth?
- Alas, Jossed, as P5 does nothing to further the plot hooks from P4A.
1.All things contain some amount of Magnetite.
2.Demons need Magnetite to survive.
Why do you think demons want them so badly in negotiation?
- Jossed, at least as far as Devil Survivor is concerned. In Naoya's Eight Day, Metatron shows up in person and acts pretty much exactly like YHVH usually does in YHVH's name. After losing to Abel, he attempts to summon Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and Uriel to nuke Earth but is interrupted.
- For Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse, however, confirmed. At least somewhat. The game takes a notably Gnostic view in that YHVH/Yalbadaoth and the "Great Will" are semi-separate entities: YHVH thinks He is the sole creator, but He is part of the larger Great Will, which is significantly more benevolent, or at least non-malevolent. Weirdly, however, in the "interim" (assuming there is one) between Devil Survivor and SMT4A, Anael seems to have switched sides from the Great Will to YHVH, and it's Mastema who is mostly working separately from his angelic brethren to enact the desires of the Great Will, though this being Mastema, it's hard to tell either way.
- Perhaps it's Naoto? She just doesn't have the same last name because of family marriages.
- Kuzunoha is a title, not a proper name. If Naoto was one, she'd be Whatever Kuzunoha the Howmanyith.
- The Schwarzwelt may also become the inspiration STEVEN needs to work on perhaps commercializing DEMONICA technology into COMPs and definitely teleportation technology, subsequently summoning back all the demons Tadano worked so hard to keep OUT of Earth. The look on his face when those same demons eventually wreak Armageddon on Earth...
- Jossed, the real prequel to the entire Megaten Universe are the Raidou Kuzunoha's Games: the future where Raido and Goto come from leads to SMT I and II due the launch of the ICBMs, changing it leads to SMT IF, Soul Hackers and the Persona Games, and other one Leads to SMT III: Nocturne.
- It's more than implied that Bonus Boss Demiurge and Metatron from those two NG+ quests are God. What with being called Pieces of God and it's stated by the Piece taking Metatrons form that God forgot his love for humans. So God is already evil before this happens. Heck even if you help him but aren't Law aligned he makes it very clear that he's going to punish you one day just to show how much of a Ungrateful Bastard he is.
- Jossed. In Devil Survivor Updated Re-release Overclocked reveals that he intentionally caused the Cain and Abel to get a Martyr and a Murderer and that Naoya's hatred for God is not unjustified.
- There's nothing "Jossed" about this. Even if we go by the multiple universes thing the Cain and Abel incident would have been thousands of years before the events of any Persona games. All that shows it that the Old Testment YHVH was a twatter which we already have plenty of information on.
Anyway, If I recall correctly, Part of the reason that YHVH became so psychotically corrupt is because he didn't enter the cycle of reincarnation like all the other Daemons/Spirits of the series. However, at the end of SMT 2 He was effectively killed by the hero, who was later punished for Deicide. You can't very well kill an immortal, especially a true blue one, but he somehow did it and YHVH Died for a period of time. But Then he came back. Assuming that the reincarnation rules work out that you essentially start out neutral and then move on to whatever alignment you support/came from/who you were in the past. As YHVH is the BIG leader of Law and Order He pretty much had no choice BUT to go back to that position. However in being reincarnated he had seen the horrible horrible HORRIBLE things he had done so many times. As a result, he's no longer the Evil Leader of Law and Order but still the leader. He supports for the most part the things they are doing, but he's finding the extremes they go to less and less acceptable. So he's ordering a rule change and it's taking time for it to get down to everyone (it would surprise me little to find that the Law Side was something of a bureaucracy) and in the mean time, well...He still signed off on the order for killing the world and it would be wrong to NOT do so, rules and all, but beyond a point, well...no. Unacceptable. We're not doing it this way anymore guys.
Or at least so frequently.
- Except YHVH was killed at the end of Megami Tensei II as well, and he is apparently at his worst in the later SMTII. How does that work with your theory?
- The Three Wise Men, Mastema and most of the angels you speak to, most of them in Sector Grus, are fervent idealists who believe in The Evils of Free Will and think a World of Silence is the magical response for everything wrong on Earth in Strange Journey. I find it too hard to believe such echelons are still willing to defy YHWH's will even if the outcome is exactly what they were planning on. Even if they succeed, what are they going to do? Go to the Big Man Upstairs and show him how they've washed clean the slate he wanted to preserve, all the while with a smile on their faces?
- If everyone in the Vortex World is either dead, a Manikin, or believes in themselves as God, doesn't Demi-fiend's deicide become permanent?
- This sounds like such an improbable idea, yet I want it so bad. And I want Call-Forward moments in Tamaki's route a la P3P.
- The five party members are Tamaki/Tadashi, Charlie, Yumi, Akira and Reiko.
- Sadly, this seems to have been Jossed mostly because it looks like the "Persona" project on the 3DS was either cancelled, was mistaken for Shin Megami Tensei IV, or was turned into Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse mid-development.
- Funnily enough, however, if... is gaining more acknowledgement from Atlus in the form of DLC for Persona 5 and whatnot, and in many ways is being treated like "Persona Zero" at this point.
YHWH's experiments backfired massively when Cain committed the first wilful murder, starting a chain that embittered everybody in Heaven as Humanity slowly started drifting away from pure Light-Law into Neutral, and some into Dark and Chaos, to their horror and Lucifer's bewilderment (who'd thunk his greatest enemies would create such strong warriors for him?), naturally expelling them to Earth, where the remains of Bel's power in the blood of humans were splintered even more as humans used their collective faith to pour that power into creating the series' entire pantheons, mythological figures and monsters, making them dependant upon humanity for belief and power; this became a source of even greater horror at Heaven when the first humans began seeing YHWH as a dick or worse and their belief made it so through the power of Bel.
It came to bite the old gods on the ass when they were finally forced to retreat or vanish into Humanity's subconscious when upon its enlightenment and advance of civilization humanity denied its magical potential. Comments from the angels in Strange Journey in Sector Grus make it clear the angels want us to obey and serve them. Mastema clearly sees humans as tools and often preachs against The Evils of Free Will and gladly empowers Zelenin, who's essentially played doormat for him at all times. Angels in virtually every game (Metatron comes to mind) are repulsed by Humanity and boss humans as much as they want. YHWH, now on full-blown bastard mode, now can only think of humans as the miserable little nothings he made them as and refuses to accept He failed at any point most of the time.
He did soften up a bit in Devil Survivor, as the result of the sealing of Nyx and the defeat of Izanami, reducing the negative energy he's being fed, seeing there might be something worth rescuing on humans... but obviously He was back to his old self in Strange Journey. Therefore, the Persona series comes before Shin Megami Tensei and not afterwards, with Devil Survivor next, then Strange Journey, with the Neutral ending in which humanity didn't learn anything and precipitated the conditions for the apocalypses ravaging the Earth in Shin Megami Tensei's series, in which every hero seems to have an affinity for hitting the Reset Button in Neutral endings in I and II, then IMAGINE; this last one returned control of Earth to humanity, letting it all culminate on Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne, which is the final battle for dominion of all with the destruction of Kagutsuchi and the end of all time.
Humans Are Special and Humans Are Bastards, indeed.
- No dice. Lucifer's not the only source on the Conception info. Hijiri supports the Lady in Black's explanation just as you meet him in the first Terminal Room in the hospital's basement. And Hikawa and Yuko's limited understanding of the Conception jibes with the Lady's explanation, too. Not to mention Lucifer had absolutely no reason to lie about Aradia, who in her own actions again confirms the Lady's stories. Unfortunately, it's more a case of More than Mind Control than an outright lie. Lucifer does not lie per se - he will happily tell you the unvarnished truth (just as long it's the part of the truth he wants you to hear).
- Yuko and Hikawa info could ALSO come from him. I also never said it was entirely false, some details (there is a multiverse, possibly with other worlds undergoing a Conception at differing times) could be true.
- ...what's left then for him to lie about?
- Yuko and Hikawa info could ALSO come from him. I also never said it was entirely false, some details (there is a multiverse, possibly with other worlds undergoing a Conception at differing times) could be true.
The notable point here is that the angels don't have a high opinion of humanity...but neither do Mem Aleph & Co., who think humans will only be "good" once they've been transfigured into demons. Law and spirit are probably both meant to have been as ancient as creation, thus originally both seen as good by whatever created it. Unfortunately, now it seems only humans and a select few Light-aligned characters share that opinion. Both parts of the creator have turned on the creation, because both have lost their original combined wisdom. And yet...what caused that to happen? {looks at Lucifer}} You got anything to say on what happened, or do we turn to Abraxas?
- Personally don't believe that the female voice is Mem Aleph as even the chaos route she does not call herself by name. Instead saying that if your spirit aligns with the Mother of the Earth to turn back. Regardless it should be known that Mem Aleph has been with the earth since the beginning. As all organic and demonic life originated from her. Even demons and the Mothers do not deny this. But YHVH and his Angels appeared later and with them came mankind. He was in fact just another God amongst many back in day before worship of him allowed him to become as powerful as he does. Both Mem Aleph and the Angels treat as being created by her and YHVH with Mem Aleph creating the human soul and YHVH most likely creating the rest. The earth being tainted according to them isn't completely wrong either as Gore will admit after regaining his senses that mankind brought the Schwarzwelt upon itself. The Schwarzwelt being used as a battlefield between the Angels and Demons has not shown any signs of happening in the past either. As Mem Aleph succeeded in cleansing the sinful civilizations and intelligent life that came before mankind in ages past and the Three Wise Men treat is as them getting what they deserved for their sins.
- Isn't this canon?
- Strange Journey has Lucifer and the Three Wise Men say YHVH was already like that before he created Humanity. So... uhhh... back to the drawing board?
- Apparently, there were cases of intelligent life getting out of hand even before humanity, each time shut down by Mem Aleph and/or the Wise Men. It seems to be an endless coil with Chaos ruling; at some point, something starts to stultify (because it succeeded in overpowering everything else in the vicinity, meaning there's no point in struggling; just a waste of energy), and try to stultify everything else so it can stay in comfort and existence. The ABCD ring in Strange Journey is how Chaos sees this as actually playing out (you probably want to start with Bootes). Arguably, the angels, and ultimately even the Wise Men—themselves one with the Earth—got sick of this coil. But if demons, the angels included, reflect the desires, goals, and impulses of sapient life, then it implies that life itself was getting sick of the Chaos coil, no matter how often Mem Aleph claimed nothing could be better for existence than the painful-yet-exultation-perfecting eternal roil (hence her idea of a solution in SJ—imbuing herself directly into creation so she can personally make it impossible to stop struggling). But with each turn of the coil through ruin, life's aggregate resentment of Chaos's seeming scorn (which is, admittedly, real enough; look at Ouroboros's patronizing view of matter as sinful, apparently meant to be shackled by spirit/energy/flux) became all the greater. Each coil imbuing YHVH, the essence of Law, with greater fanaticism and fervor. So...can the Earth be said to hate itself, somehow, whether or not there's a civilization around? With the enmity between Law and Chaos as the embodiment of that self-hatred, and Neutrality's exemplars (Gore, Taishang Laojun, etc.) as the attempt to assuage said self-hatred?
- Strange Journey has Lucifer and the Three Wise Men say YHVH was already like that before he created Humanity. So... uhhh... back to the drawing board?
- I would just add that the demons themselves are intelligent life capable of belief. (Think of the fake YHVH created by the hand clapping of the Archangels in SMT II; also the relatively high power level of beings like Metatron, who isn't as much revered by humans, could indicate this too) Now this just deepened the Mind Screw. I think the process of faith creating is way out of control long ago, we are just the smallest and newest and pretty good for scapegoating (yes, we aren't helping mattes but we certainly didn't start it). So as weird, alien, powerful, terrifying etc. the demons of the series might be they could very well be not so different.
- Jossed
... I have no basis for this whatsoever, but I have a feeling Lucifer had something to do with it.
- It's worth noting that Sophia already appeared in NINE, where it's revealed that she was cursed to reincarnate as a human constantly as punishment for giving birth to Yaldabaoth/Demiurge, and regains her goddess form in the Neutral-Neutral ending. It's been speculated that the golden statue that appears in the Neutral end of SMTII is also Sophia, but the statue appears at the very end of the credits without any context.
- NINE is probably not canon. To add to this theory, Strange Journey has the Demiurge being a part of YHVH, so this is all but confirmed.
- "Shin Megami Tensei IV" shows even more Gnosticism by shedding more light on the relationship between YHVH and Demiurge. In that world at least Demiurge is, according to Lucifer, a Godly demon (even though it says he's a Vile if you have him) that broke away from YHVH to rule a silent world and deluded himself into believing he was the creator. After you defeat him Lucifer says that the real creator and true enemy is much more powerful, so this pretty much proves that even though Demiurge is an avatar/piece of God they are pretty much separate beings. This adds more Fridge Horror when not only is the False God evil but also the True God.
- As a corollary, it was a sort of mixed bag. While Lucifer and the Demi-Fiend were indeed killed and YHVH was spurred to become the puppetmaster for both sides of the war, it succeeded in drawing the Great Will's attention. Since the biggest guy of them all is now fully aware of the extent of the damage, and more crucially, how to fix it, it was a matter of time until YHVH's shown the door. Since the Mad God's still licking his wounds, his chances are... pretty bad, ensuring the victory of the Great Will's champions.
- The other characters don't know his password, and for some reason he refuses to tell.
- No one knows how to operate a computer.
- It breaks when he dies, and only he or the healers know how to fix it.
- Attempting to use his COMP to summon demons is dangerous because the demons are only contracted to him.
- The Hero of SMT 1 can summon up to three and then four demons at a time, due to the COMP hardware limitations. Aleph can summon five right away. Meanwhile, the Demi-Fiend, Flynn, and Nanashi are limited to three at a time due to the Press Turn system. Apocalypse's database states that hunters fuel their demons with naturally produced Magnetite, and the same goes for Raidou and his demons. The three demon limit for Flynn and Nanashi is intentional; Stephen most likely had a better version of the Demon Summoning Program by the time IV rolled around, and managed to make a program that summons lots of demons at a time. But Stephen also realized that most people can't find enough Magnetite to keep the demons around long enough to protect them, so he made the program to power the demons by the user's Magnetite. More than three demons at a time would strain the user too much, so the cap is at three. Also, since everyone with a phone can summon demons, more than three would be too dangerous for everyone else.
- The trailer shows lots of buildings that look completely intact on the outside, but the inside is full of greenery, a bit like Life After People.
- From his perspective, his story has a lot in common with most JRPG s. First, he finds out that demons are killing people, so he goes out and fights them. He is unjustly imprisoned, and he takes the initiative to grapple with the guard. His main motivation is finding his girlfriend. He dies in a Heroic Sacrifice, passes the torch to the hero by telling him to destroy the evil robots, is resurrected by God, and becomes the savior of his people. Only too late does he realize that his treacherous former friend is actually The Hero.
- Since God Is Evil and you kill Him in Apocalypse, and there wasn't any controversy over that, there's no reason not to release SMT 2. Besides, well, remaking and retranslating the whole thing.
- I don't know, maybe it's the Ma in her name
- They were the demons who gave her the magic that made her go mad. And they still regret it. That's why they're taking care of her.
- They took care of her while she was still human, but didn't partake in giving her that demon magic. They witnessed what happened to her, however. And they still regret not having tried to stop it. That's why they're taking care of her.
- Similar to the above, but they tried to stop the other demons (they may have known what would happen when none of the other believed them), but failed. And they still regret having failed to save her. That's why they're taking care of her.
- Confirmed but not by that reason, she's from a future where humanity grew greedy after the destruction of the first Schwartzvelt in the Neutral Ending, so much that they weren't able to fight back when it came back. Her Backstory also changes depending on the route the Player is in
- Jossed.
- Jossed.
- Flying demons will not be damaged if you jump of Mantra HQ (unless that's still possible)
- Aradia/Ms. Takao will have an ending.
- Big giant disembodied head.
- Can destroy worlds on a whim.
- Followed by fanatical zealots.
- Hilariously, that would mean the actual solution would be to whoop both their asses and then fuse them together.