Oh neat, it's open.
I checked the related tab and it seems like most of the entries that refer to this are fanfics and laconics.
I think the key difference between Ascended Fridge Horror and Deconstruction is that fans are the first to notice a problem, then the writers take note of these fans' idea and incorporate it into the work. This means that a good period of time needs to pass between the introduction of the problematic element and its official acknowledgement, since if the script is already completed it's very rare for it to be changed just because of a fan theory. For example, at least one season if it's a TV show, or a sequel for movies, books, and games.
- Things like Neon Genesis Evangelion and "Sausage Party": definite misuse as it's not addressing any of it's own fridge.
- My Little Pony and Plot Point: How is this not an example? If it takes something that was potential Fridge Horror and confirms it, how is that misuse? Avatar I can see as it was intentional all along, but others...
- Fan Works: any Fridge raised from the original series is misuse as that's deconstruction. Only counts if it addresses its own Fridge. What about Recursive Fanfiction or works in a shared verse?
For MLP, I feel it's because it gets addressed as the series is running. Like maybe or maybe not it was intentional, but the series is still running.
Yeah, deconstruction has this intentional thing going on for it.
edited 3rd Jun '18 7:22:32 PM by Ookamikun
Some of the MLP ones could be valid, as the fridge horror was first noticed by fans, then turned canon in a later season. The delay between seasons means that the writers would have time to notice the fans' reactions and incorporate them into an episode.
But then again, I'm not 100% sure how the animation industry works. I've heard that some shows already have the next season's episodes written by the time one season starts airing, so if that's the case then it's not truly "ascended" since it was always intended. Non-animated shows and other types of works can also have future scripts planned out long in advance, so it can be tricky to figure out who thought of something first between the fans and the writers.
edited 3rd Jun '18 8:19:28 PM by Zuxtron
That's why I'm wary about shows, even if it's a long season. I can understand if it's another show based on the same setting jumped years later like Ducktales or something with clear different production staff like Power Rangers, but not an ongoing longrunner.
For MLP, some of them take place more than one season after the Fridge. For the Discord example, it may be Fridge since they didn't know there would be a Season 4 when 3 was made.
I agree there should be enough gaps between works so we can assume it's after the fact, between one seasons/installment minimum, maybe two (unless Word of God is that the Fridge was planned all along or was added mid production).
But we agree if it's within the span of the same season, let alone a single film, shouldn't count yes?
That is correct.
This seems like something that would be hard to impossible to prove for a lot of works. It would basically boil down to fan speculation to say whether or not something is truly ascended fridge horror.
Optimism is a duty.it's easy though, if it's planned or intentional, then it is not an ascended frige horror
How would you establish that it's intentional? Interviews with the creators? Do we need to require a citation for every example of this trope?
edited 22nd Jun '18 9:58:27 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I think we only really need a good sized passage of time for this, like a season or more. Its just gotta have a gap for writing to catch up with the airing of the show.
Something happened in show which would be Fridge Horror if you think about it -> a season later (or Official Adaptation) that thing is now played or mentioned as the Horror it should be.
edited 22nd Jun '18 7:39:17 AM by Memers
Like Fighteer says, intentions would be really hard to prove here. Often, we simply won't be able to tell or find out whether or not something is ascended.
Optimism is a duty.I dont think we need Word of God on this at all, just a passage of time. Even if the writer writes it then later thinks of the Fridge Horror themselves and writes it as that its still this trope.
"Writer realizes the implications of their previous work and writes them into the continuity" is not a trope. It's just writing. Writers do that. At the absolute maximum, it's trivia based exclusively on Word of God. Frankly, the way I'm hearing this talked about makes it sound like the ultimate form of fan masturbation. "Senpai noticed me! (wank wank)"
edited 22nd Jun '18 10:01:58 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Yeah there's also that.
So a move to Trivia, then? Or cut altogether?
Optimism is a duty.I want to cut it. But if not, the only way it gets transplanted to Trivia is with a Word of God requirement.
edited 25th Jun '18 2:47:10 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"So Redmess and Fighteer's arguments have me convinced, it's too difficult to prove that the author took inspiration from fans pointing out the Fridge Horror, and cases where direct proof is given are too rare to make this worth keeping.
Clock is set.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanWhen this started out, wasn't it all about taking "disturbing but not outright stated implications of stories" and using as them as fuel for drama and/or dark comedy, when such implications would otherwise either go to waste or be counted against the franchise?
Anyone have access to it in the archives to confirm or refute this?
If that is at all covered by other existing tropes, I'm on board with scrapping this one.
Edited by neoYTPism on Aug 25th 2018 at 5:52:14 AM
Where should the Fan Work examples be listed under? Deconstruction Fic?
Resetting clock.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Right off the bat the trope is identified as an aspect that feels Fridge Horror gets acknowledged and becomes important in the series. YMMV aspect aside, it's a bit concrete. But there's a problem I feel. There lacks a range - what if said Horror was intentional to be considered "ascended"? What if the point of the title is Deconstruction? It doesn't really become "ascended" because it was intentional to be in the show/book to begin with. Like people make a big deal of an implication of an early episode as a horror, yet the show actually is all about it in a later episode, so it doesn't really become "ascended", confusing plotpoints and hints into this maligned trope. More often than not, the entries are just typical Deconstruction. Additionally I'm being consistent with the various "ascended" entries, like Ascended Meme being about memes being acknowledged in sequels or future entries.
So here's my suggestion - let's put something, like say, through a sequel, a spinoff, or an additional entry from the series. Like say an aspect of an entry, but then a future spinoff, sequel, etc. acknowledges that. That becomes an entry for the trope. Lemme do a quick check on the entries.
Not gonna touch Fan Works because I don't really go there.