Pantheon Magic Discussion

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08:25:26 PM Jun 26th 2015
Where is Merlin? Is he in this pantheon?
08:28:16 PM Jun 26th 2015
11:04:00 PM Jun 26th 2015
Is he somewhere else? Shouldn't the original wizard be at the head of this pantheon?
03:07:10 PM Jun 29th 2015
House I mean. Not the pantheon.
04:58:55 PM Feb 20th 2015
edited by reterusu
Nita Callahan and Kit Rodriguez God and Goddess of Cast from Lifespan and Language of Magic (for Nita: JuanitaLouise Callahan, Neets.)

10:14:29 AM Oct 9th 2014
Calling it right now... If Edward Elric were to be in The Morality Civil War... he'd be a massive Spanner in the Works.
03:58:13 PM Apr 25th 2014
How is Sayaka Chaotic Good? I thought she'd be Lawful Good, or if we're going by her Anime incarnation Lawful Stupid? What makes her Chaotic, exactly?
04:58:38 PM Mar 8th 2014
I nominate Shuma-Gorath to take Dormammu's position as god of magical overlords on the grounds that he's the foe the position of Sorcerer Supreme was created to defend against and personally responsible for the death of the Ancient One, Strange's master. And he's also alot more powerful than Dormammu. In addition, given the revelation of the cancer-verse and that Shuma is one of the four many angled ones who orchestrated the end of death and take over of that universe, I propose we make Shuma a variable god who is overdeity in his realm and varies elsewhere.

Not to mention the fact that if you kill Shuma, you become him.
10:35:20 PM Feb 11th 2014
I would like to nominate Rumpelstiltskin as either the God of Imps or the God of Magical Deals. Thoughts? I can make a profile if you'd like.
03:08:09 PM Jun 29th 2015
I would like to see that.
08:13:10 PM Jan 14th 2014
Given the various powers and resources he's acquired over the series, not to mention the potential power he could draw from, I nominate that we promoted Harry Dresden from "Lesser God" to "Intermediate God".

Anybody else in favor of this? Or am I reaching here?
10:59:43 PM Mar 1st 2014
he was originally pitched as an intermediate god. plus the upgrades he has gotten from being the winter knight could qualify him. To say nothing of how powerful he is on demonreach.
08:07:41 PM Jan 14th 2014
Why is Yuna now Rydia's co-goddess? I have nothing against Yuna at all, but I don't see why she's here and not Garnet or Eiko? Rydia it makes sense to have her as the goddess, she's the original named Summoner and the first one to have a major plot role, something that never came up again until FF 9.
08:11:27 PM Jan 14th 2014
As an ammendum, given Yuna's extensive profile now, rather than just remove her, why not make her her own goddess as the Goddess of Magic Dances?
12:18:13 AM Dec 17th 2013
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I would like to propose Bloom from Winx Club as the Goddess of Fairy Power.

If there are no objections, naturally.
07:27:32 AM Dec 17th 2013
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If you want to suggest a god, please try to find a trope to fit her under. I know we have some gods which aren't under tropes, but you could try to find one.
08:33:01 AM Dec 7th 2013
Anyone mind if I change Homura and Bernkastel's relationship a bit? Due to Rebellion I think they have a LOT in common now.
10:18:00 AM Oct 28th 2013
Okay this is a rather contested stuff and I'd like to ask this... in regards of Puella Magi Madoka Magica the Movie: Rebellion.

It's about Homura. There... at cost of totally pwning Kyubey's system, she becomes something of a Satan figure, the antithesis of Madoka, robbing her of free will and rendering her sacrifice null. I wonder how this will affect Homura's standing in the Pantheon?
03:00:25 PM Oct 30th 2013
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Well, she's an Over now, that's for sure: it's established that she's as strong as Madoka was, if not more so. Switch her alignment to Neutral Evil, probably, give Sayaka the old heave-ho and put Homu in her place.
04:13:53 PM Oct 30th 2013
I think Sayaka can stay in order to complete the Mitakihara group. How about switching her title to Unrequited Tragic Maiden or Black and White Insanity?
06:00:50 PM Oct 30th 2013
Looking at Rebellion again, Sayaka keeps her memories of previous timelines. Wouldn't that make her a candidate for Goddess of Retroactive Preparation?!?

But in all seriousness, between the two, I'd say she fits Unrequited Tragic Maiden the most: Black and White Insanity has people like N from Pokemon who embody it a lot better. We could always get, I dunno, Holden Caulfield to fill that void if we really needed to. But the Mitakihara group's getting broken up anyway with Madoka becoming a Fallen, so there's no real point in keeping her in just for that. Unless...unless Madoka becomes "The Amnesiac God". It'd boot her out of the Main House but she wouldn't Fall at least.

Now what about the rest of the Pantheon? How would they react to all this? I mean, something like this affects more than the Magical Girl Sisterhood, the Magic House and the Main House. There's gonna be new alliances and enemies: Lucifer is bound to show some interest in Homura, for starters, and there are bound to be others I'm not thinking of.

Lastly, regarding the Tales of the Alliance, my vote is see the Witch Arc through to the end: no point in just aborting it when we're so far in.
07:34:39 PM Oct 30th 2013
Yeah. The Witch Arc just had to have a change in plan. At first I thought it'd be about Madoka succeeding in snapping Homura to her senses. But this time, the results are different. Let's just say Joker wins and shows both Terumi and Kefka how it's done...

It's all right if the Mitakihara group is broken, they can go around with the new friends they had. As of Madoka? I'd say, if we have a throne of Selflessness, she can take it as a refugee.
06:23:43 AM Oct 31st 2013
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Throne of Selflessness. That could work. Hell, that could be Main House, unless we're downgrading Madoka's ranking. She still HAS Madokami's power, they're just being suppressed. Kyon's in the Main House, after all, and if the Wild Mass Guessing is anything to go by, he's much the same: sealed Overdeity. It'd piss off the GUAE, them all waiting with bated breath for Madoka to Fall, and when Shiki gives the verdict of a mere Title Change...

Melkor: *leaps to his feet* WHAT?!?
Shiki: ORDER IN THE COURT! One more outburst and you will be escorted out, Melkor, now sit down.

The Witch Arc will probably end with Homulily being unleashed on a group of Madoka's apostles Madoka is captured by Nyarlathotep and Joker and almost breaks by being forced to watch before a Big Damn Heroes from Mami, Kyouko, Sayaka and the deified members of the Investigation Team. Yu, Yukiko, Rise and Kanji fight Nyarlathotep and Joker while Mami, Kyouko, and Sayaka fight Homulily. In the end, they save Madoka and Homulily is turned back into Homura. By this point, however, Homura's a changed girl: didn't help that she wasn't among the group that saved her while Sayaka WAS. One Bad Day...still, I wouldn't quite count it a "victory" for the Joker. He and Nyarlathotep were just using her to get to Madoka, after all: their ultimate plan was to drive her over the Despair Event Horizon and unleash Gretchen on the Pantheon, both destroying the GUAG and proving that even Madoka could despair. Homura was just a role Nyarlathotep could play in order to facilitate this plan. This development would take them by surprise as much as anyone else. So, yeah, he broke somebody. Proved that One Bad Day was all that's needed. Still, it was HOMURA they broke: her grasp on sanity was arguably shaky to begin with after everything she went through, doesn't prove the massive point they wanted to make that even the Font of Hope could fall to despair. They caught a minnow when they were fishing for tuna, if that makes a lick of sense. And now Homura's just as strong as Madoka and as fiercely protective of her as ever, if not more so, so that's working against them. And with their continued attacks on the Magical Girls trying to turn them into Witches, they inspired them to Face Themselves. The GUAE took a huge gamble with this plan, and overall, I'd say they lost.

Also, what do we do about the Incubators? It's been established that they didn't know the Witch System ran on The Warp and they wouldn't try it again, but Rebellion contradicts that. Should we just ret-con it?
03:04:01 PM Oct 31st 2013
Well, considering that it was Tzeentch that was the primary mover of the 'MG turns into Witch' part of the contracts, it's not to hard to think he made a version where, while the system still works by useing the warp, it's much harder to see how it does so, and therefore connecting the dots. Combine it with Homura not having all her marbles in the bag, as well as forcing the Incubators to work for her, and you have a similar system to the first one that Homura will viciously protect. He made multiple copies after all.

And this time, Tzeentch can easily manipulate Homura however he sees fit, just as long as it looks like it's to Madoka's benefit (and that he's not involved). Should it keep up this way, and there's a real chance that Homura becomes the next Daemon Prince of Tzeetch. The path of Chaos can start with a mothers love after all.

Which means that, while the GUAE lost this battle, the war is far from over.
06:02:41 PM Nov 6th 2013
I must positively say that I am devestated by what that movie did. Congratulations, one of my all time favorite characters in anime has completely been ruined for me. One that was a legitimate positive influence on my life, teaching me the very definition of never giving up.
12:07:04 PM Nov 8th 2013
I have to say that I disagree that the movie ruins everyone's character (except maybe Kyouko because she runs on her darker personality more than anyone) or their determinator characteristic. In fact, everyone are still as determinator as ever and because of they're determinator, the movie happens in the first place.

One thing that I have to clarify about the movie's plot is that the assumption Homura does what she did in the climax is because of she's entitled of Madoka is wrong; the Incubator is aiming restore the Witch system (because they curious of the system Homura describes in the series' finale) by capturing Madoka, using her as a bait. Madoka knows that, and orders Sayaka and Nagisa who already go to the Valhalla to save her. The thing is, the Incubator can do that again with some random girl if they choose to.

Homura, who bickers with Kyubey not long before she finally turns Witch, realizes this. Since Madoka's wish only extended to the Puellae Magi, the real source of the problem will still go scot free. If she lets Madoka to save her, then there will be no one left to continue the fight against the Incubator because Mami and Kyouko are brainwashed and unaware of the movie's plot. To stop Kyubey from capturing Madoka in the Lotus-Eater Machine, she has to a) stopping Kyubey from doing it again, or b) preventing Madoka from falling to the trap. She can't do those if she doesn't have the necessary power to screw Kyubey over, and the only power that can do that is Madoka's. What she does is Necessarily Evil.

Of course, the offset is that kind of world isn't wanted by either Madoka or Sayaka, but for someone who already got screwed over by Kyubey for 100 timelines, turning the Incubator into her slave is better variable.
02:23:51 PM Nov 10th 2013
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After looking at things, the ending makes a bit more sense.

Have been looking around some forums for a bit and I've noticed something interesting.

The Zero-Approval Gambit theory regarding Homura's motives is gaining ground as a highly plausible theory about Rebellion because its actually supported by solid evidence.

The theory is as follows: Homura's true objective is the death of the horrible magical girl system, which was the root cause of Madoka's suffering. Since Madoka's wish was so easily sabotaged, Homura had to do something drastic. In order to protect Madoka and achieve her mission, she would have to act as the villain. Thus she made the rules awful to force people to act against her. The incubators have a metaphorical "Boot on their heads" to prevent them from sabotaging her plan. In short, Homura is "Playing to Lose" to the rest of the PM, especially Madoka in order to protect Madoka.

Seems like she's taking her usual "push away those you care about in order to protect them" approach taken to its logical, tragic conclusion. Her latest actions just stink of acts out of The Boss and Kratos Aurion's playbook. Note the really sad look in her eyes at the end of it, even during the I'm so evil hahahaha spheal. Its stating to seem more like a very pragmatic act. Considering that pragmatism is VERY much in character, it makes sense.

How does this affect the pantheon? Now that I'm calmer, I'd say not very much.

Alliances: Kyubey now allied with Tzeentch due to his actions. Kyubey and Lord Kroak now enemies. Homura now allied with The Boss and Kratos Aurion.

Alignment: Neutral Good but acting as Neutral Evil.

The Homulily Arc: Not much is affected. The only difference I see are minor changes to the ending in which Homura realizes that the system is still a threat and in order to protect Madoka she has to do something drastic, and it breaks her heart to have to do it.
03:44:28 PM Nov 10th 2013
You said all those, but what of her stances in the GUAG Magical Girl Sisterhood, would Homu quit?
06:22:34 PM Nov 10th 2013
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That, I don't know. I think we might have a situation of loyality towards the order in the way of protecting them from certain Trollss out there in such a way that puts a glove around said trolls throats. Pragmatic and visciously effective, just like some of their partners.

Supposedly there was also a part in the ending where Madoka's eyes turned gold, meaning that she didn't truly lose her powers hinting that Madoka might know on some level what's going on and why.

Speaking of Sisterhood, I think its time for Flonne to be inducted thanks to her Magical Girl transformation, known as Pure Pink.
01:55:22 PM Nov 11th 2013
Kyubey allies with Tzeentch? He stood against him explicitly because the Witch System was based on the Warp, which would do something REALLY nasty to the universe. Why would Kyubey actively work against his own interests?
05:44:26 PM Nov 11th 2013
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Well he did actively try to bring back the witch system and sabotage Madoka's wish. Then there's his reputation for being a manipulative Troll. If the Witch system is based on the warp, why go through so much trouble to try and bring that back?

We might have a retcon scenario on our hands because of Kyubey's actions in Rebellion.
10:42:27 AM Nov 12th 2013
We could say that Kyubey found a way to bring back the old system, but with a different set of rules on how it happens. Different Black Box, same result.

He just doesn't know that Tzeentch was behind this one as well, which is also based on the Warp, but in a much more subtle way.

All according to plan, of course.
02:09:41 PM Nov 14th 2013
Just realized that a certain portfolio has been affected much more than anyone elses: Charolette over in life and death. Rebellion gave us her true name and her human form. Seems her entire entry is going to have to get an overhaul.
05:58:44 AM Nov 19th 2013
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I'm surprised Nurgle didn't have anything to do with the Witch System. His whole schtik is turning people into monsters when they cross the Despair Event Horizon. Hell, he's got a bit of Incubator in him: he has no idea why what he's doing is wrong. The idea of entropy killing all life in the universe would be against his beliefs, too. Maybe we could work something like that into a retcon.
05:30:29 PM Nov 27th 2013
Here's something we can go with:

The Witch System never ran on the Warp to begin with. Madoka knew Kyubey would try to reestablish it as soon as he got the chance, so SHE covertly spread that story in order to dissuade him. And it worked...for a while. Unfortunately, she couldn't fool Kyubey forever.
08:45:09 PM Nov 27th 2013
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Found some more evidence in favor of Homukami being nowhere near as nasty as she's claiming to be. If she's such a psycho selfish -redacted- (lol), when why did she go out of way to either have Kyosuke's hand healed or the injury triggering it prevented, making sure the severe lonliness plagueing Mami was corrected, and the implied overall greatly improved quality of life for Kyoko. All of this instead of only trying to make Madoka happy? Seems to be suggesting some sort of facade is going on.

When I mentioned a community opinion, the site in question was animesuki. So far the collective opinion there seems to be a bit of collumn A and a bit of collumn B as for the three main trains of thought regarding Rebellion:

A: Zero-Approval Gambit

B: Well-Intentioned Extremist

C: Evil psycho Yandere

04:15:49 PM Nov 29th 2013
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Forgive me for butting in, but I have my own ideas regarding Homura's fall from grace that I wish to incorporate, namely that various magical girl villains led by Death Phantom, Akio Ohtori, Drosselmeyer and Dune push her over the edge of madness with constant Breaking Speeches about how Madoka never really understood her true feelings for her, setting up situations that would further alienate Homura from her friends and some subtle bits of Mind Rape, courtesy of Death Phantom. I feel it would be far more thematically appropriate if they were behind the Upheaval instead of Tzeentch or Nyarlathotep YET AGAIN (Seriously you guys, let someone else be The Chessmaster for once) so they can laugh in the collective faces of the Pantheon's magical girls about having turned their greatest strength, The Power of Love against them.
05:22:07 AM Nov 30th 2013
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She might be too genre savvy to fall for arguments like that.

My idea was that the mastermind behind the "Great Upheaval" is Lucifer. Appropriate, considering what happens to Homu, no? He appears as the magical girl Louisa Ferrre and warns her about the prophecy, and tells her that the only one important enough to be the centerpiece for something like that regarding her world is Madoka. He reminds her that Madoka is a huge target for her enemies, and thus she's in a LOT of danger, and with something called the "Great Upheaval" on the horizon, well...the outlook isn't too good. He gives her a small box and leaves. Homura stews in it for a while, with Lucifer appearing a few more times to offer advice, and she starts warming up to him, or at least Louisa. Finally, she goes for it: as it turns out, the box contains a Magatama with a power that can drain Madoka's abilities and give them to Homura, therefore a. making Madoka less of a target, taking her off the front lines and reducing the danger to her and b. giving Homura the power to protect her. It would explain how she was able to drain Madoka's powers. Lucifer's ultimate plan is to, what else, groom Homura into a soldier of Chaos, and then turn her loose against YHWH by citing him as a threat against Madoka.
02:32:45 PM Nov 30th 2013
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Perhaps for the respective trials, there is some new evidence coming out.

In short, the fan base has basically hit "The Continuity Alarm" over a really bad Wall Banger class Ass Pull made by Shinbo that is the root cause of the "Great Upheaval".

The event in question: Corrupting a soul gem with love. Not only is this plot twist completely devoid for foreshadowing (which by definition makes it an Ass Pull), but it blatently contradicts the rules established in the series (it is despair and usage of magic that corrupts soul gems).

Arguably, this Ass Pull throws the credbility of the events of the Upheaval into question
09:31:17 PM Nov 30th 2013
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That never happened. Whether by despair or magic exhaustion, Homura's Soul Gem was fully corrupted before the events of the movie even started: that's what gave Kyubey his opening. Madoka was coming down to purify Homu's Gem and claim her. Considering Homu's mental state by that point, I'm tempted to take her talk about Love filling her Soul Gem with a grain of salt. If not that, then maybe this: Love, an exceedingly powerful emotion, particularly in Magical Girl animes, was bouncing off the fully corrupted Soul Gem of a girl with a head full of crazy, under the influence of weird alien technology for god knows how long. That's never happened before to our knowledge, there's no precedent that it explicitly goes against. (Before you say Sayaka, she doesn't count: the instant her Soul Gem hit critical mass it shattered, killing her. Homu fought off the law of nature that would make that happen. For the first time in existence, we had a Magical Girl who was alive WITH an intact, fully corrupted Soul Gem, which couldn't be destroyed because the law of nature that WOULD destroy it was unable to. Like Homura said, she was an entirely new creature: a being who's very existence defies a law of nature. Love could have just been the motivating factor she needed to pull this off, and her line about Love filling her Soul Gem was just a fancy way of her saying that.)

There, see? That could work.

There could be a perfectly good explanation for what the hell happened that they'll introduce when the inevitable season 2 rolls around: I mean, that's why Shinbo did this in the first place. A good twist ending is surprising, and seems to come out of left field. You're shocked at first, but then you look back and realize that that's what they were building to all along. I'm cautiously optimistic that come season 2, that's exactly what'll happen: we'll look back and say "I can't believe I MISSED that! I was...such a fool". I think Gen could pull it off: he may have wanted to end the story with Rebellion, but it's not like they completely wrested control from him. He was the one who wrote the ending itself, and he said he was proud of it. I trust the guy's writing abilities. They left us on a combination twist ending/cliff hanger, and those NEVER make much sense at the time. Who knows: it may very well end up being the wallbanger of the century. But considering they're almost certainly planning to follow up on Rebellion, I think it's too early to write it off.

Bear in mind what series this is: Rewatch Bonus is all over the place. I bet they can make it work.
11:08:35 AM Dec 1st 2013
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I'm more inclined to be cynical about it being pulled off well. Mainly due to how this is disturbingly like the events and BS that happened to the Mega Man Zero series. I'm of the school that Executive Meddling is inherently bad for a work. To be honest, I never saw Rebellion. I just looked at the spoilers and decided to never see it due to those spoilers and in protest to the crapiness of the ending.

The 3rd of the Zero series had a relatively similar ending to PMMM in concept: heroic self sacrifice for man and reploids —> best friend finally finds peace with themselves (though via different reason namely killing a representation of his inner demons —> said person dashes off to fight for the hopes and dreams of person who made sacrifice in a world implied to have become World Half Full. Unfortunately, that ending also got a Happy Ending Over Ride thanks to Executive Meddling and AssPulls.

On a side note: what happened to Homura is on a conceptual not literal level an almost 1:1 match to the originally planned fate for X (changed to be Copy X in the last month) in the first Zero game. In short, X falls to despair, snaps, and becomes a psychotic shadow of his former self and his armor takes upon quite sinister angelic motives (closer to a Fallen Angel). His acts are motivated by love for/ desire to protect humanity. The kicker: his solution would have eventually damned human civilization due to an energy crisis. The similarities between Rebellion and the Zero series get really, really creepy when you think about it.
01:26:00 AM Dec 3rd 2013
Uh... Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch, much? I mean, it's all fine and good to dislike twists and such but I really think you should at least give it an actual go-through rather than inferring through spoilers. It's Madoka Magica, a very visual series.
03:41:11 PM Dec 3rd 2013
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I have however seen clips of Rebellion on youtube, such as the AWESOME Mami vs Homura fight and the weird, yet bizzarely entertaining Ear Worm that is the "Cake Song". Dang it, can't get that tune out of my head and its been two full weeks. At the very least, I did my research before making my final decision on whether to like or hate THAT twist (hated it when I first found out, pretty much still hate it), and THAT twist is my reason for not wanting to see Rebellion.

On another note, I think its time Flonne got inducted into the Sisterhood (as a supporter with a "chaplain" role) due to her "Pure Pink" magical girl transformation. Apparently, Flonne takes a major level in bad ass in terms of game play when she dons that outfit. The Sisterhood would really need a morale boost.
08:19:51 PM Dec 4th 2013
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I still really recommend you give it a proper watch, even if it's just when the DVD comes out. I've just never seen anyone complaining about that particular part of the twist, just expressing a little confusion until they basically come to the conclusion krimzonflygon gives up there.

And it wasn't full Executive Meddling, it's not like Urobuchi was dragged kicking and screaming. It was basically "Well, this ending's a bit too conclusive. We're onto something big, here, so let's make it more open ended." "Oh. Okay. How should I do that?" "Make Homura Madoka's antithesis, I guess." "That works."
06:11:11 PM Dec 6th 2013
Still, I still think the originally planned ending; Madoka claims Homura's soul gem would have been a much better ending than Shinbo's idea.

More evidence in favor of Flonne being in the Sisterhood. "Pure Pink" is a Pretty Cure reference. Pure Pink has a really sick exploit which is a borderline Game-Breaker (or at least if I'm interpreting it right). Equip Flonne with the "Fabricated Setting" evility —> Attach weight (sets health to 25% max hp) —> Remove weight —> send her to battle —> "Fabricated Setting" kicks in, healing Pure Pink to full boosting stats by 30% —> Pure Pink's main evility kicks in, giving her an additional 75% stat boost since she had lost 75% of her health before being healed. Add in 1—>2x3 rank C Pure Pink unique special attack and you have a destructive mob killer.
02:52:20 PM Dec 14th 2013
What should Madoka's role be now?
04:12:45 PM Dec 16th 2013
@magnum12: I feel like it would have been too bland if it had ended like that. Despite the borderline Ass Pull I prefer the current ending because the alternative feels... too happy, especially for Madoka Magica. Also, it leaves room for a sequel, which is cool.

Besides, it's never been outright said that despair is the only source of energy available. It's been stated at some point that strong emotions are what fuels magic, and love is one of the strongest possible emotions. Incubators are probably used to channeling despair because it is the emotion easiest to provoke, channel and control using the system they have in place. Maybe the use of love was considered taboo specifically because Incubators deem it too uncontrollable, and for good reason.
05:01:24 PM Dec 18th 2013
One thing that unsettle me of this whole Upheaval fiasco is that everyone within the pantheon miss Homura's Death Seeker signs and act like she dives head first to the slippery slope. Her Witch walking to her own execution with her familiars, her familiars jumping to a metaphorical suicide, basically named after her self-loathing, and throwing tomatoes at her, her blatant playing of villain role as a mean for her death (she turned into Witch in the first place so Kyouko and Mami can kill her like any monster they fight). It feels like her Zero-Approval Gambit is too damn good.

Unless this is intentional... then I guess Madoka's mom is right about people misunderstand each other's intention.
06:11:37 PM Dec 18th 2013
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So, are any of them going to be relocated to other Pantheons? My personal suggestions...

About Madoka: I think she should remain where she is. Maybe just add a "Sealed" in her title. After all, she is still technically Madokami, and I'm pretty sure she will go back to being Madokami someday. Even if not, the fact that she used to be Madokami is good enough, I don't see a reason to invalidate her sacrifice just because her powers are currently sealed.

About Homura: Anyone up to make her the new Overdeity of Dark Magical Girls? Being the Shadow Archetype to Madoka, I think she deserves as much. Marisa could be relocated elsewhere, how about Goddess of Kamehame Hadoken, assuming there is none as of currently?

About Sayaka: She's Redeemed now. I think there should be something in her entry noting that. Sayaka, Goddess of the Fall and Redemption of Magical Girls.
06:34:18 PM Oct 14th 2013
I nominate Zatanna for goddess of Stage Magic that is also real.
11:18:00 AM Nov 6th 2013
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Zatanna is now the Goddess of Wizards Disguised as Magicians.
04:26:39 AM Sep 16th 2013
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It appears that we lack a deity for Blood Magic. Unless anyone else has a better candidate, may I suggest Sorin Markov for the position?

I guess His entry would potentially look something like this:

  • Rank: Intermediate God (Greater God Pre-Mending)
  • Symbol: His sword
  • Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
  • Portfolio: Blood Magic, Friendly Neighborhood Vampire, The Hedonist, Mind Control,
  • Domains: Vampirism, Angels, Black and White Mana
  • Followers: Archangel Avacyn
  • Allies: Rachel Alucard, Valvatorez, Alucard
  • Enemies: Dracula, Galactus, Azthoth

Any help with filling this out is appreciated.
03:40:21 PM Oct 30th 2013
  • Has an Odd Friendship with Karin Maaka of the House of Emotion. Karin sees Sorin as she does her big brother Ren: well-meaning, if kind of grumpy. Sorin doesn't talk much about their interactions, but it is implied he feels much the same. He once offered to train her in Blood Magic, considering the un-vampire has so much to spare. Karin apparently declined for the time being, but said she'd think about it.
03:14:11 PM Jun 29th 2015
I agree that Sorin should have this position.
09:28:58 PM Jul 4th 2013
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Why is. Homura listed as a greater goddess here, but a lesser goddess in Time and Space, and GUAG magical girl sisterhood? Should this be changed?
05:08:35 PM Nov 27th 2013
i'll change it to greater goddess
06:16:24 PM Dec 2nd 2013
After The Rebellion Story? OVERDEITY.
05:41:02 AM May 30th 2013
I noticed that we didn't have a God for Druid. Would Malfurion Stormrage do?
07:16:31 AM May 30th 2013
A good druid candidate needs has a good balance in animal loving and tree loving. While I do respect Furion, I think he's a bit focusing too much on trees than animals. I may be wrong though.
12:30:36 AM Sep 17th 2013
Why not none other than the great wizard Merlin? After all, he's the archetype for many 'Druidic' mages...not to mention 'Saged Wizards' in general? I'm actually surprised he's not already in this house in some way or another...
01:22:05 AM Sep 17th 2013
What kind of 'Druid' magic Merlin has? I think Merlin would've fit more in a more general magic. 'Druidic' here leans more into magics surrounding nature and beast-summoning. Assigning Merlin on just that particular thing would be an insult.
06:33:14 PM Oct 14th 2013
What about the Radagast the Brown from Lord of The Rings?
03:18:09 PM Jun 29th 2015
I think Radagast would be best for this position seeing how much play he gets in the Hobbit movies.
07:52:00 PM Apr 4th 2013
There are already certain specific categories, such as puppetry and illusion. I propose that Gen. Roy Mustang be granted a spot in this pantheon as the God of Fire.
08:48:14 PM Apr 4th 2013
Could he match Shigekuni Yamamoto Genryuusai? Because that's the current seat of Fire.
09:05:38 PM Apr 4th 2013
Oh, right... that's under nature, isn't it? Crap, slipped my mind. I AM surprised that Mustang isn't listed as one of his followers, though.
09:09:40 PM Apr 4th 2013
edited by br987936
Perhaps Mustang could be named in the Pantheon of War as the God of Good-Looking Privates, what with the dashing uniform and the TINY MINISKIRTS.
09:25:36 PM Apr 4th 2013
... I'm all for Mustang being in the Pantheon, with FMA's influence and popularity... but I'd like to make sure if 'Good Looking Privates' is really one of his biggest forte. Though to be fair, yeah... it could fit well. Mustang is a good looker in that uniform and enforces that his followers be good looking too, I bet the TINY MINISKIRTS is a way to show that.

Also, let's see you build up a portfolio for Mustang first so it doesn't look forced. Build that in the Discussion Page of his eventual house (because that can't be in Magic)
07:52:00 PM Apr 4th 2013
There are already certain specific categories, such as puppetry and illusion. I propose that Gen. Roy Mustang be granted a spot in this pantheon as the God of Fire.
06:21:40 PM Feb 17th 2013
As of the newest My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic episode Magical Mystery Cure, I propose to promote Twilight Sparkle to Greater Goddess and make her Goddess of The Power of Friendship. I'm sure she deserves it, as she is literally the in-universe Goddess of the Magic of Friendship now. Since three positions is probably too much, ideally someone else should be deified to take care of at least either Checklists or Telekinesis. Please post thoughts and suggestions!
10:09:38 AM Feb 21st 2013
I'd strongly consider waiting until the other two episodes that continue that story arc come out. We need to know what her "Goddess of the Magic of Friendship" thing MEANS, and even if that is really the best way of expressing it.

I don't know what the standards for the magnitude of deities is around here... it is almost certainly NOT in-universe power. Might be based around how common/story-critical the trope tends to be.
07:34:28 PM Feb 25th 2013
It's not a power thing, it's more that I see Twilight Sparkle's transformation into the Alicorn of Magic to be proof that she now has a full and complete understanding of what friendship really is all about. I can't think of anyone more prominent than Twilight who can claim to that. Plus, I don't think there's anyone occupying the position as Deity of The Power of Friendship right now. The main thing holding me back is the rather lukewarm reception Alicorn Twilight received in the fandom.
08:22:54 PM Mar 2nd 2013
edited by DracoDei
Well, I would also like to wait and see what season 4 has to say about how complete her mastery of Friendship really is. I doubt that they will have her have little or nothing left to learn, but it is possible since Celestia did SEEM to say that even she herself would be learning from Twilight.
10:50:17 PM Sep 16th 2012
I couldn't give the exact trope for it (Mundane Utility maybe?), but I think Linkara deserves acension, after the reveal he managed to use magic to turn toys of things from Sonic Screwdrivers to morphers into working versions.
10:53:53 AM Sep 15th 2012
edited by DaibhidC
We don't have a god for Inept Mage. How about this one:

Rincewind, God of Magical Ineptitude (Pawn of the Lady, The Great Wizzard, Not A Cheese)

07:31:59 PM Jan 26th 2013
The problem is that it is my understanding that he isn't so much inept, as uneducated... well, beyond the one super-spell that forced itself into his brain.

Granted if he HAD education he would probably be inept at magic, but I don't think he even TRIES to use magic. Maybe I haven't read books late enough in the series?
09:02:44 AM Mar 8th 2013
He's had magic lessons, before he was thrown out of the University after the incident with the Great Spell, he just hasn't been able to actually learn magic from them. That seems more "inept" than "uneducated" to me. In later books, he's the University's Assistant Librarian; he has more access to magical knowledge than most wizards, and he still can't actually do anything. In Sourcery, there's this exchange:
Rincewind: If you piled up all the spells I've learnt you'd ... it'd ... you'd have a lot of spells!
Conina: Yes, but you're not actually very good at them, are you?
09:55:50 PM May 25th 2013
Ah, fair enough. I withdraw my objection.
09:37:00 PM Jul 6th 2012
Question: Why doesn't Sailor Moon have position here? I know that Madoka is already Goddess of all magical girls period but Moon who predates her by some 20 years and still has the most impact on genre deserves to be here. Maybe as the Goddess of Magical Girl Warriors ?
03:47:24 PM Oct 17th 2012
I have been considering what if anything can be done with Sailor Moon and this Pantheon with it's pending rebrith. You are right, they need some representation somehow and it was some years ago where it was Usagi herself in the place that Madoka is now. To me, the MG division seems to be a perfect place to answer that question...

08:10:00 PM Oct 17th 2012
Yes I think Magical Girl Warrior would be perfect for Usagi. I think one thing Sailor Moon created a breakthrough out was that before her, Magical Girl Genre wasn't exactly a combat-geared genre. Sailor Moon would've been the first instance to combine Magical Girl with ass-kicking, and it was groundbreaking and changed the face of Magical Girl everywhere.

So yeah, now only a matter of making a portfolio for her.
02:29:32 PM Apr 14th 2012
edited by RawpowerEX
I've decided Edward Elric should have double duty as the God of Alchemy as Sol takes double duty as the God of Atonement and False Marty Stu. Until someone can think of a proper God for Longcoats, this is going in.

Edward Elric, God of Alchemy (Fullmetal Alchemist) Kanji Tatsumi, Noel Vermillion
  • Enemies: Relius Clover and Terumi Yuuki, Master Xehanort
  • Pulls double duty as the God of Longcoats.
  • Respects the Vash the Stampede, Kenshin Himura, and Kanji Tatsumi. The former two for their views against killing others unless they've crossed the Moral Event Horizon, and the latter for loving his mother. They genuinely love their mamas.
  • Now that his brother's back in his human form, he'll just serve justice although he isn't very noble.
  • Is utterly disgusted at the depravity of Relius Clover because the latters actions are similar to Shou Tucker.
  • It's not a good idea to pull Grand Theft Me on him. The last time he was on the receiving end of it, he destroyed them by turning himself into a Philosopher's stone.
  • Although he in a great relationship with Noel Vermillion, He has worked with her to save her friend.

03:05:20 PM Feb 28th 2012
edited by Demongodofchaos2
Here's My Mithra Template

Mithra, Goddess of Mantra Manipulation, Kidnapped Daughters and Faith power(Former priestess of the Seven Deities), (Spinner of the threads of life, The Source of all mantra)]
  • Intermediate God Actually a potential Overdeity, as she allowed her father Asura to attain his ultimate form, Mantra Asura.
  • Symbol: Her mantra halo
  • Alignment: Lawful Good Possibly Lawful Evil
  • Portfolio: Kidnapped Daughter, Kindness, Possessed by a golden spider
  • Followers: None so far.
  • Allies: Asura, Madoka, most of the good deities.
  • Enemies: None so far.
  • Recently Ascended to the pantheon by her father's request. All the leaders of the pantheon agreed, so long as if they did, they wouldn't piss asura off and him and his daughter could finally have some peace and quiet they deserved.
  • Somehow, a golden spider ended up possessing her and claims to be the True God, the spinner of life, and the source of all mantra. Asura was pissed, but he has to wait until the time comes to get her back from being possessed.
  • Before being possessed, Mithra got along really well with other good deities, and was happy that Madoka was able to save her world with her loving power and saved the Magical Girls from their suffering, something that she admires.
  • While technically an intermediate deity, it was her power that allowed Asura to achieve his greatest potential before ascending, so she has potential to be much more important in the grand scheme of things.
04:52:00 PM Feb 28th 2012
If no one objects, I'll put her in in a few days.
10:03:40 AM Feb 28th 2012
Bernkastel's portfolio needs some work. Namely in the fact that she's NOT Rika Furudae. To be more accurate, she's her Enemy Without, unleashed from her subconscious when Rika finally managed to break the cycle of deaths in June 1983. Rather than wreck havoc with Rika, she causes trouble in other worlds for lulz. We could use that fact to add in that the misconception is part of Bernkastel's trolling of the viewers.
02:54:41 PM Feb 27th 2012
I propose we Add Mithra here, since it would be nice for Asura to see his daughter in the pantheon.

She can manipulate Mantra and was what allowed Asura to gain his Mantra form.
12:51:17 AM Nov 22nd 2011
edited by kakatana59
I will add to my seconding of Harry Dresden as the God of Magical Collateral Damage with this:

Harry Dresden, God of Magical Collateral Damage, Walking Techbane, and Badass Bookworm
  • Intermediate God
  • Symbol: Silver Pentagram
  • Alignment: Chaotic Good
  • Portfolio: Badass, Being Good Sucks, Combat Pragmatist, Destructive Savior, Famed In Story, One Man Army, Walking Techbane
  • Domains: The Nevernever, Chicago, the Afterlife
  • Followers:
  • Allies: Merlin, Vampires, Chinese Dogs, Bob, Burger King
  • Enemies: Demons, Vampires, Necromancers, the Fae, electronics.
  • Harry Dresden is perhaps one of the most powerful mages to currently walk the mortal plane. Though young by their standards, he has been in more metaphysical battles than most of those his senior by a century or more. A highly competent private detective, one of his cases lead him to the Pantheon of Magic while in service to his Fae mistress, Queen Mab. As her knight, nobody really felt like telling him to get out.
  • Is infamous for leaving a wide swath of property destruction in his wake, whether he had anything to do with it or not. It is possible that as the mortal incarnation of Walking Techbane AND Magical Collateral Damage, this is unavoidable. The Gods of Craft are keeping tabs on him, and wagers are currently being placed on how long it will take for him to set them to work.
  • Is banned from all libraries, hospitals, technical colleges, Apple stores, and any other place with sensitive equipment. Also, is STRONGLY advised to refrain from taking his cat to a certain veterinary clinic, as it immediately began intimidating a rather large Saint Bernard with a glare.

I'm going to hold off for a few days, and see if anyone has anything to say or add. I'll make links to the relevant tropes, add spoiler tags, etc; but if nobody has any objections, I'm going to add this to the page by Saturday.
02:55:13 PM Feb 27th 2012
Nope, no objections.
06:34:02 PM Nov 15th 2011
Quan Chi as god of Black Magic. Not that Final Fantasy definition used by Black Mage, Black Magician Girl, and Lady of Black Magic. Rather the unholy, evil, blasphemous kind that toys with demonic power and the dead.

Quan Chi, God of Profane Magic
  • Lesser God
  • Symbol: A burning green skull
  • Alignment: Neutral Evil
  • Portfolio: Black Magic, Necromancer, Betrayals, Evil Baldness, Beating Opponents With Their Ripped Leg, Evil Sorcerer, Hypnosis, Trickery.
  • Domains: Evil, Knowledge, Magic, Death.
  • Followers:
  • Allies: Tzeentch, Nekron, Night Bringer, Other Mother, sometimes Shang Tsung
  • Enemies: Marona, Rosa, Scorpion, Sub Zero, sometimes Shang Tsung
  • There was once a time that Quan Chi was actually a honored member of the Pantheon, though not really owning a house. After a certain something which involves a LOT of Ass Pull and something too rigged to his favor, he fell to the Disgraces. He found his way out when the Court of the Gods discovered a much worse offender and realized that his offenses were mainly tied to one event. Thus he obtained a more fitting spot.
  • People love his leg-beating Fatality.

09:07:27 PM Nov 15th 2011
Not too bad, but we're gonna need some people who could fit more than Quan Chi.
09:07:58 PM Nov 18th 2011
Other potential candidates: Dr. Falicer (more voodoo than Black Magic though), Maleficent (though I doubt her magic was nearly as profane as his), and Gul'dan.
12:33:35 PM Nov 12th 2011
08:11:43 PM Nov 12th 2011
Not sure, after where he's located now with no chance to break away.
10:39:03 AM Nov 13th 2011
Melkor will find a way.
05:37:54 AM Nov 12th 2011
edited by ChrisX
What of a Goddess for Lady of Black Magic? We need two things:

(I'm personally thinking of Jaina due to the Mist of Pandaria expansion might show her being pissed and showing full extent of her magic and she's been called Azeroth's most powerful archmage)
11:17:58 AM Nov 12th 2011
I vote Lulu. Morrigan is already a Goddess.
03:44:09 PM Nov 12th 2011
Which Goddess Morrigan is? Last I remembered, she was removed as 'Goddess of Approvals'...
04:28:34 PM Nov 12th 2011
Oh, sorry, got her confused with Morrigan Aensland.
08:09:50 PM Nov 12th 2011

What's your reasoning behind voting Lulu?
10:38:33 AM Nov 13th 2011
edited by Megafighter3
[Shrug] She's the one I'm most familiar with. Though Caster would be my second vote.
04:46:35 PM Nov 4th 2011
Seems like we could use a goddess of Wiccan magic, specifically, and who better than Willow Rosenberg?
03:01:59 PM Oct 8th 2011
Zatanna as the Goddess of Stage Magic?
03:11:41 PM Oct 11th 2013
edited by
The Stage Magic trope was taken by Oscar Diggs in the House of Theater.

However... try her as the Goddess of Backward Word Magic.
07:00:26 PM Oct 11th 2013
edited by
That doesn't fit even for Pantheon standard. I mean who else do we know about Backward Word Magic... aside of Zatanna? That's not a lot to build a throne with. I think there's a trope for this kind of stuff (but just to describe this limitation, not to suggest for Zatanna).
02:49:03 PM Oct 13th 2013
Try her with Magicians are Wizards.
12:12:17 PM Aug 12th 2011
I'd like to suggest adding Twilight Sparkle as Goddess of Unicorn Magic.
08:00:16 PM Aug 26th 2011
Come to think of it, is there even a God(dess) of Unicorns? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no"...
08:01:35 PM Aug 26th 2011
If she goes for Unicorns in general, she'd probably go in the Beast section, I think.

She wouldn't be happy about it, mind, but that's where that title belongs.
07:44:31 PM Jan 26th 2013
In case anyone is reading this this much later:

Friendship is Magic unicorns aren't very... unicorn-y. They are cutie (but badass) ponies who happen to be a Witch (Sub-)Species. Most of them aren't particularly wild, healing-capable, secretive, or close to the woodlands/'unspoiled' nature*.

  • Equestria is basically a heavily terraformed location... The EVERFREE FOREST is the 'untouched' place, and they are horrified by it. They have a good working relationship with Nature, but it is the relationship of a shepherd and his dog at best (or with his sheep at worst).

In short, I would say that The Last Unicorn is a much better fit (better, not necessarily perfect), and Twilight needs to stay exactly where she is.
09:40:32 AM May 2nd 2011
So, after all the things that happened in Puella Magi Madoka Magica, I propose Madoka as the new goddess of Magical Girls.
09:36:25 PM May 3rd 2011
This is being discussed in here. You are welcome to join with any other view point for or against her promotion to Goddess.
02:39:13 AM May 9th 2011
I am very sorry to have gone ahead and invented Madoka as a deity without so much of a discussion. I guess i played too much in the lesser-used pantheon.

12:15:08 AM May 18th 2011
Happens, as I said... follow the link. I think that based on what I have written changes will be made. And soon.
03:45:25 PM Mar 11th 2010
I would like to propose Harry Dresden as the god of either "Collateral Damage" or "Accidentally Burning Buildings". Also, God of Wizards named Harry.
07:04:11 PM Mar 22nd 2010
edited by Coolzar
Well, as I said before I think god of Post-Modern Magik would work better, since the other two happen because of his magic, and are not magic in them self. Besides, I'm sure there are much better choices for god of "Collateral Damage".
07:08:14 PM Mar 22nd 2010
I personally nominate Mohiro Kitoh, author of Bokurano for that last one, although he'd be in another House.
06:56:01 PM Aug 3rd 2011
Honestly, i think it would make more sense for Dresden to replace Potter as the God of Functional Magic. Being a Wizard in the Dresdenverse is like being a freaking engineer
12:33:06 AM Sep 5th 2011
Considering Changes and Ghost Story, he'd be the God of Unintended Dire Consequences instead. Probably somewhere in the Heroes and Villains house. Maybe.
01:41:13 PM Sep 5th 2011
He'd also be a reasonably good candidate for Being Good Sucks. Or do we already have one for that?
12:02:16 AM Nov 22nd 2011
Harry Dresden would make quite an excellent God of Collateral Damage. Hell, one of his books started off with these very words: "The building was on fire, and it wasn't my fault." Seeing as he is personally responsible for at LEAST one or two buildings to suffer at LEAST major structural damage per book, accidentally, to boot...
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