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Ask the Tropers:
open Should intented purpose be considered regarding whether something falls under the documentary rule?
The "documentary rule" is a rule we have restricting how we can trope something that's explicitly or implicitly a documentary of Real Life events, such as a history textbook.
Now, there are some works that obviously fall under the rule, such as the 1970s BBC documentary The World at War. Other things, however, aren't so clear-cut. For example, Horrible History Metal. On the one hand, a lot of songs of this type are just detailing events that really happened without putting much of a fictional spin on it. But on the other, these songs aren't really intended to inform in the way that documentaries are.
So I'd like to pose the question: should the intent of the creator(s) be taken into account as to whether something falls under the "documentary rule"?
open Can this Film Page be cut? Film
So I was wondering if A Serbian Film can be cut since this is a controversial flim and this page is no examples allow by the mod for some reason. The last time it was edited was about 8 years ago.
Edited by BubblepigopenWhat should be done about this trope page?
(Apologies if there was a more appropriate venue to post this kind of complaint; I wasn't sure where it should go.)
Artistic License – Child Labor Laws
The "artistic license" tropes are for when an author gets things wrong or fudges the facts for the sake of the story.
The above page has a description concentrating entirely on modern-day America, but most of the examples are from other societies or entirely fictional societies. Can't really say the author got things wrong just because their fictional society has different laws.
openGrouping character tropes by topic...?
not even really sure how to ask this, but is the way this character page is formatted valid? i usually see lengthy character pages get cut down into folders with groups of letters.
openMod Revert Live Action TV
I commented out a lot of Zero Contents on the Characters.Friends Main Characters page and Suave Augstine went and uncommented all of it with no edit reason other then there is a lot of these. I would like a mod revert if possible or at the very least permission to hide all the zero content entries again.
openI might need help cleaning up/fixing the DMC franchise's pages. Videogame
Apologies if this is about to get long... I've been crosswicking tropes from the VideoGame.Devil May Cry page because several game-specific entries listed there weren't added in the individual game pages, and I thought of expanding those individual pages for a while (and might need help from others later). But...
The Main VideoGame.Devil May Cry page
I'm confused on what to do with certain character-specific tropes, especially on recurring characters who appear all throughout the entire franchise. For example, the main page has these and more:- Bring My Red Jacket: Dante wears a big red Badass Longcoat and gets swords through him a lot.
- The Collector of the Strange: Dante's massive collection of demon skulls.
- Sins of Our Fathers: Several devil bosses have major grudges against Sparda for siding with humanity, and they take it out on Dante. Lampshaded by him in 3, as got sick of it.
Dante: "Why do I gotta take the heat for my father?"
Dante, being the main protagonist of the series, appears in every DMC-related media and these tropes happen a lot. But should these still remain on the "General Tropes" folder? Or be moved to his character folder instead?
Likewise, there seems to be a frick ton of ZCE, and they are written simply by mentioning the game where they are present and the names of the characters using them. Thing is, these tropes are actually used more than once throughout the franchise (they do apply), but the way they're written somehow makes them too short. A quick glance would give us these:
- Absolute Cleavage: Gloria, and to a lesser extent Trish and Lady.
- Almost Kiss: Dante and Lady in 3, Nero and Kyrie in 4.
- Attack Its Weak Point: Beowulf's eyes, Cerberus' heads, Phantom's face...
- Attack of the 50-Foot Whatever: Mundus in 1 and the False Savior in 4.
- Badass Biker: Trish, Lady, and Dante.
- Badass Crew: Dante, Trish, and Lady.
- Badass Longcoat: Dante, Vergil, and Nero.
- Clipped-Wing Angel: Mundus, Possessed Arius, the False Savior.
I'll try to crosswick these on the specific game pages/character folders, it's gonna take time. But is it still okay for these (kind of short) examples to remain on the General tropes folder? There's a lot of them, and I feel like if I'm about to zap these entries that seem to be ZCE, maybe more than half of the page's text will be gone.
Also, because these sentences are just short, should Example Indentation still be followed? For example, that Badass Longcoat sentence just mentions the character names. I don't think they'll look good when using sub-bulleted lists.
The Memes.Devil May Cry subpage
There's actually a subpage that lists memes for the entire franchise and the individual games below. However, looking at the YMMV pages of the individual games, their Memetic Mutation trope also lists or repeats them. Some game-specific Memetic Mutation entries (See YMMV.Devil May Cry 5) even have more examples than those in the Memes.Devil May Cry subpage.What to do here - Retain the game-specific memes to their YMMV page? Or move/update everything into the Memes.Devil May Cry subpage and delete the Memetic Mutation tropes from the YMMV pages?
About the Moments subpages
I've had split extremely long Moments pages before, but this question is mostly just for confirmation... How many examples must be there to justify the creation of game-specific Moments (Awesome, Tear Jerker, Heartwarming, etc...), Fridge, Headscratchers, and WMG pages?openProblematic trope page
The page for the trope Gaucho is filled to the brim with red links. Pretty much half of them are red links. Should something be done about this?
Edited by LermisopenWhen is an Edit War not an Edit War?
There's been a situation for a long time regarding Adam Taurus on Characters.RWBY White Fang regarding the tropes Freudian Excuse and Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse.
Both tropes have a history of repeatedly being added and removed from the page (often together). There have been discussions on whether either of the tropes apply to Adam (two of which are on the Discussion Page, at least partially), and the consensus tends to be that the two tropes don't apply. This is terms of a scar he carries that shows he's been tortured and branded being the motive for him being a villain.
Although there's been consensus in the past, the tropes keep getting re-added, so various different tropers (including me) have removed the tropes, citing previous discussions. One troper suggested (a long time ago) that perhaps a commented-out note should be added to the page telling people to go to the discussion page first before adding the tropes. I've just removed the trope again, but I also removed it in February, and I've removed at least once before (possibly more). I always refer to the Disucssion Page when I do.
The reason I do this is because I've seen advice given to other tropers in the past that as long as there's a consensus, the trope can keep being removed as long the edit reason makes it clear where people should go for previous discussions and decisions about the trope in question. However, it's been a while since I've seen that kind of advice be given to anyone, so I don't know if it's out-dated, and I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable about this because I feel like I'm edit warring. I've added a commented-out note to the page advising people to check the discussion page first and, if they think they've got a new point that should be considered, to open a discussion first before adding the trope.
I'm not sure what else to do. Am I handling this correctly, or am I edit warring?
Edited by WyldchyldopenCan a character be both an AntiHero and AntiVillain?
For example, on Treasure Planet, John Silver is listed as both.
openAcceptable length for trope quotes
I had a look at I Coulda Been a Contender! and saw this wall of text as a page quote. Is this still within bounds?
openShould the "Giant's Dream" have spoiler tags? Western Animation
A recent ATT thread discussed The Iron Giant which had been made "spoilers off" 2 years ago and the consensus was that should be "spoilers on" again.
There's a little debate over what story details should be spoiler tagged. The obvious consensus was the nuclear strike on Rockwell and the Giant's sacrifice to save it as well as the reveal that the Giant survived and was re-assembling itself in Iceland.
However, there's some contention about whether the contents of the "Giant's Dream" should be tagged as well. As a quick recap, after the encounter with the hunters, deer and rifle, the Giant has a dream that night that reveals glimpses about his origin... that he was created to be one of an army of robots who were designed to be a planetary invasion force and had the firepower to physically tear a planet apart.
The dream sequence was cut because of financial constraints due to WB Animation shutting down their animation department even as the production team was frantically trying to get The Iron Giant finished.
It was never included in the theatrical release nor in the early waves of dvds & bluray releases. It wasn't until the 2015 "Signature Edition" that the scene was completed and restored into the film.
As such, for a majority of readers who aren't big Iron Giant fans then this is a plot point that is not widely known and, in my opinion, worthy of spoiler tags.
If the majority of viewers aren't aware of the Giant's sacrifice at the end such that it warrants spoiler tags, then they surely aren't going to know about the Giant's Dream and I feel it deserves the same consideration.
Edited by rva98014openTroper with Indentation issues, refuses to cooperate with messaged Web Original
A troper by the name of Mack regularly breaks the rule written in Example Indentation in Trope Lists.
For example, some past examples of their violations include:
WebAnimation/Hololive - Sep 4th
- Animation Bump: A character getting their 3D model debut is considered this as they get high quality 3D virtual reality models they can perform in a full virtual space with.
Characters/HololiveJapan (now Characters/HololiveJapanGenerationFour) - Sep 9th
- Amusing Injuries: Subverted. In her collaboration stream with Subaru she physically fell off her chair and landed on the floor very hard after a particularly nasty Jump Scare in the VR Horror game they were playing. It aggravated existing neck pain so badly that she had to go to the hospital. Scans showed she did not break any bones but her injury was still quite serious as it caused damage of the ligaments in her neck. During her recovery from the neck injury she also suffered from side effects to the pain medicine she was taking that made her sick.
- Not long after that, Luna had to have an injection in her right hand after developing tendonitis.
YMMV/Hololive - 15th Sep
- Most Wonderful Sound: A lot of YouTube commenters like to say that Watame's giggle puts a smile on their face.
- Amelia Watson has garnered the same reaction from viewers in her early streams.
I have fixed these three entries, but keep in mind that this is only within the hololive namespace, god knows how many other instances they have done this in other works.
Their most recent one in hololive is:
Characters/HololiveEnglish - 27th Sep
- American Kirby Is Hardcore: The Japanese cast's characters are all a variation of many different motifs. The first generation of English-speaking v-tubers? They all got an Eldritch Abomination motif.
- Where the Japanese branch members generally started their careers by playing up the wholesome idol "seiso" characterisation, the HoloEN branch are unsurprisingly more like traditional western streamers.
I have already messaged them three times about it, but the only response I got back from them is:
Can something be done about this please? Even though they do write some decent entries when not breaking the rules, this issue has gone on for long enough.
Edited by AsoktencheaopenGunpoint Banter: Should it include Averted examples?
I was doing a Wiki Walk and came upon this entry on the Gunpoint Banter page under Live-Action TV:
Averted in Stargate Universe, the two characters involved take one look at each other, draw, and fire.
It doesn't seem like this is a trope ubiquitous enough to include averted examples on the page, that would just be any situation where two characters point guns at each other or shoot at each other without any witty banter.
Cut?
(If yes, I could scan through the rest of the page to see if there are any other 'averted' examples)
openWorks with no spoiler tags
Coming from Long-Term, some arbitrary works are Spoilers Off without even being listed on said page. Examples include The Iron Giant, Doki Doki Literature Club!, and Joker (2019) (which was stripped of spoilers by a single person over a year ago). What should be done?
open "The End of the World As We Know It" must be deliberate?
The description of The End of the World as We Know It would have you believe that it must be a deliberate act (e.g. a step or even end goal of an Evil Plan), but it's being used both on its example list and elsewhere to denote non-deliberate "end of the world" events as well (e.g. a impending asteroid collision in Armageddon, or Earth spiralling towards the Sun as an unexpected side-effect of a pair of nuclear tests in The Day the Earth Caught Fire). Is the description simply the victim of unnecessary overspecificity, or is the general use in fact misuse?
Edited by MarqFJAopenNudity in a video
So we don't allow nudity on the site correct? I ask because the video here from Airplane! has a naked woman in it.
openTroper with rude username
This is little more than 2 years old so apologies if this has already been dealt with, but while looking at the Discussion page of Moe.Anime And Manga I noticed an entry from an editor with no edits named Tropers.lolYOUgotBANNED, the name strongly suggests they are grave-dancing over editor NSAnalyzer getting suspended over getting on an edit war spat with another editor.
The username is bad enough, but given that it has no other activity other than mocking the suspension, and the other editor involved in the quarrel (who was also suspended) also expressed to be glad that NSAnalyzer was also banned on the EB thread it makes me wonder if they're the same person. Can this be checked?
Edited by matruzopenBad grammar
SonicLordLombax's edits have some pretty bad grammar. I've sent them a notifier, but their edits are plentiful and I could use some help cleaning things up.
I can't seem to get the hang of it. (Eg. Annas quest instead of Anna's quest) could someone help me?