Ask The Tropers

Spider-Man stuff

Revolutionary_Jack has been adding a lot of entries to Spider-Man YMMV pages that don't have a general fandom consensus to be on the YMMV page, such as Steve Ditko's Gwen Stacy being a Love to Hate character and modern readers preferring her to any other version of Gwen. Entries that are legit are very long-winded and nattery, and they also deleted a Spider-Man 3 Vindicated by History example due to the film "not being a classic" even though its reputation has improved post-ASM 2 and the Editor's Cut salvaging a lot of the movie. The following examples are just from the Spider-Man 3 YMMV page but similar examples can be found on other Spider-Man pages, including main, subpage, and trivia pages.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Revolutionary_Jack

"* Misaimed Fandom:

• The symbiote influenced Peter is supposed to be Peter Slowly Sliding Into Evil and the narm and lameness of "Emo Peter" is definitely an Intended Audience Reaction. But given that many audiences had grown fatigued over Raimi's portrayal of Peter as a serious Extreme Doormat Hurting Hero in the previous films (even if Maguire himself was praised for his performance and screen presence), the fact that the one time we see Peter acting somewhat closer to his more rounded comics' portrayal such as him talking back to his landlord and giving Harry Osborn a piece of his mind, it's shown as a case of a Symbiote turning him evil, makes many fans express frustration about Raimi's misreading of the character as a suffering superhero monk.
• Many fans especially feel this way about Peter negotiating a higher salary from Jameson. In the comics this happened at the end of the Master Planner arc (considered among the all-time greatest stories in Spider-Man mythos), and it was portrayed as a Hell Yes moment. The movie makes it seem like this is his Start of Darkness even if what Peter is doing, calling out Eddie Brock for his unethical work and fighting against Jameson's exploitation, is entirely legitimate."

"* They Changed It, Now It Sucks!:

• A big sticking point for some fans, even if the character on the whole was praised, was the Retcon that made Sandman into Uncle Ben's killer. It's not the first time a superhero film did this (Tim Burton's Batman did the same to Joker, and it was criticized even then by many reviewers^note It was an element that DC Comics, normally receptive to introducing elements from adaptations, absolutely refused to incorporate into the character since it drastically undermined the appeal of the Batman-Joker rivalry) but many audiences felt it drastically undercut and ruined Peter's origin from Spider-Man (since if the burglar Peter specifically didn't let escape kill Uncle Ben, and it was his getaway partner who did it in panic, then that means that Peter isn't actually responsible for his Uncle's death and his entire guilt was misplaced, which ruins the crucial theme from his story). Many also saw it as an inability for Raimi and Sony to create a nemesis who wasn't a free agent unconnected to Peter's story and life simply so that they could rehash simple beats. A tendency at Sony Pictures which continued in The Amazing Spider-Man Series and which the hacked Sony emails had one of Marvel's own executives call them out on.
• As a number of fans note, the Symbiote was never Spider-Man's Superpowered Evil Side nor did it turn him into evil, and definitely ''not'' emo. The original Symbiote was a sentient suit that liked Spider-Man and became a case of a Stalker with a Crush. It ended up taking Peter out as Spider-Man while in his sleep, and Peter worried about gaps and lack of control parted ways with it, which made the Symbiote a crazy jealous ex, who saw new host Eddie Brock as "sloppy seconds". The change in dynamics to a more simplistic Jekyll and Hyde story annoyed many for cheapening a great concept, as well as creating frustrating drama since Peter acts like a jerk to his loved ones but since it's not really his fault, all his actions can be blamed on Gollum Made Me Do It (which as many note was a beat that applied to the villain of Spider-Man and something which Peter didn't entirely accept there)."

Character Death in the Star Wars character sheets Film

One thing I've discovered while working on the Star Wars character sheets is that there are some Character Death entries. As some of us know, Character Death is an omnipresent trope and is a super trope to Karmic Death, Redemption Equals Death, Dropped a Bridge on Him, etc.

As such, I have a question for fellow tropers: should just keep the Character Death entries or remove them altogether?

Possible Characters/CrashBandicoot page split.

So I've been going over the Characters.Crash Bandicoot page, and it's come to my attention that we may need to split it into smaller pages since there's so many characters that it's getting tricky to find them all, and it's getting so big the page starts lagging whenever all the folders are open. However, I'm not sure what would be the best way to split the characters up.

Are both YMMV tropes?

I hope this is the right place to ask, I was wondering: why does Signature Scene have the YMMV banner but Signature Line doesn't? Is the latter a ymmv trope anyways or does it belong on the main page?

No Title Web Original

I made a page for a fic called Paradise only to come across a page for the story while looking for examples on this site. It's listed under Sly Wits Paradise.

The name of the fic is just "Paradise", with Slywit being the author, so should that page be cut and the content moved to Paradise?

Pages For Works That Were Never Released Videogame

I was looking at Canceled Video Games and I noticed a page for Castlevania: Resurrection. It's an unreleased game that has never been leaked. Are pages simply based on prereleased info allowed? I presume not, because I remember the Disney's Gigantic page was cut for that reason.

Adaptational Skimpiness (plus bumping another thread)

Is there a possible trope that serves as an inversion of Adaptational Modesty? Hotter and Sexier really covers the setting. I'm wondering if there is a trope for it or if I'll have to launch one?

Unrelated note: Wanted to bump this thread up since no one has seen it.

Troper with multiple issues.

There's this troper called IKEZE-KISAMA who's exhibited several issues present across most of their edits: natter, Wall Of Texts (often motivated by shipping [the example also has him putting a trivia trope in the YMMV section]), violating the no general examples rule (and the latter has him calling a writer an "entitled asshole" in the edit reason), and some really odd sentence structuring in general. I've sent him some Grammar and Natter P Ms, but I think he needs to be brought in for a talk.

Misuse?

The trope Big Little Brother was removed from Jaune's entry on the RWBY character page with this edit reason "Trope misuse. He's a man and she's a woman. It's natural at this point for him to be taller." And now I'm curious.

There's nothing on the trope page that seems to indicate younger brother/older sister pairs are exempt, it just says it's more normal for it to be the case.

Disambiguation question

If a work shares its name with its first entry and is ineligible for Franchise/, and later sequels are unnumbered^note so that "Title 1" disambiguation isn't a viable option, is it safe to say the first entry should usually be disambiguated by year if possible?

(This is intended as a general question, not a question pertaining to any specific work.)

Lists of articles and books at the end of Useful Notes pages?

I noticed that on Useful Notes.Abuse, there is a list of online articles about abuse and a list of books about abuse. Is that a thing with Useful Notes pages? I wrote the page Useful Notes.Bees, should I include a list of articles and books about bees?

Logged Out Without Logging Out

Is there a glitch where you can be logged out without logging out? I didn't log out but when I went online I was logged out. I didn't delete my cookies or log out, though. Maybe it was a glitch on my console's part, but I've never had that happen before.

Edit: I'm guessing it was maybe on my part as I haven't noticed anything weird since.

Is this an example of this trope?

Something I've never been clear on: If I want to know if a given scenario fits as a certain trope, do I ask here or at the Trope Finder?

KH3 Content Leak

I'm hearing word that Kingdom Hearts 3 was leaked a month early. If that's the case, we may have to keep an eye on the relevant pages and make sure nobody adds spoilers early.

Mew 1996

troper Mew 1996 is edit warring here and talking about herself in Real Life examples

VLD issues Western Animation

YMMV.Voltron Legendary Defender is currently exploding right now as the eighth and final season was released today. There's tons of speculative troping on the page, shipping wars, backlash, and backlash against the backlash. i think a lock may be needed, at least until things cool down some.

Which specific 'Frenemy' link?

Long story short, the redirect for 'Frenemy' ( https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FrenemyTropes ) has too many links for me too look though, so I'm hoping someone more versed in tropes can help me at least make my list to look though smaller.

Which frenemy trope(s) can be summarized with "You may be an insufferable jerk, but you're MY insufferable jerk."?

. Anime

Please delete this.

Atelier Page Redirects

So I've noticed that on the main Atelier page, there are blue page links to Atelier Marie: The Alchemist of Salburg, Atelier Lilie: The Alchemist of Salburg 3, and Atelier Judie: The Alchemist of Gramnad. However, clicking on those links just takes you back to the main Atelier page because the "pages" themselves don't really exist, so why they're listed on the main page only to redirect you to the main page is beyond me. The actual Atelier game pages don't really start until Atelier Iris: Eternal Mana.

What are the signs of a page needing cleanup?

I'm a new editor. Can someone give me advice on signs of a page needing cleanup?

Completely gone article Web Original

I remember we had an entire article about YouTube Rewind. What happened to it?

Edit: Ignore this since the article exists now.

Just a question

Is it possible download Tvtropes articles from a specific medium or all in general? I want to read about it without internet connection

Some Like It Hot Trivia Film

Does anyone have a source to back up Trivia.Some Like It Hot reporting that the first draft ended with, "I know", instead of, "Well, nobody's perfect!"? When I listened to the commentary from the 1989 Laserdisc (recycled for the recent Criterion Blu-Ray), it stated that the first draft still ended with, "Well, nobody's perfect!"

Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion folders Anime

Was reading the Neon Genesis Evangelion page and I just wanted to double-check if it's actually okay to divide tropes into folders under different story elements like they did here (setting, characters, narrative, themes, meta) or if this is discouraged? I find it confusing but it seems to have been set up like that for a while, so I can't tell if people officially agreed to it in the past or if someone just randomly organised it that way and never got corrected.

Elemental TV Show Western Animation

Ok sooo, I used to watch this tv show when I was younger and now it's killing me that I can't remember the show. It's about 4 kids (or teens), 1 girl and 3 boys, where one specific house has a basement or something. In this basement they had this device which teleported them to a different dimension and the kids battle it out there. From memory, one kid is tanned and has the power of earth/tree or plants. The girl is air, blonde hair I think. She has a brother as well (I think again lol), who was water. I don't remember the other kid at all. But yeah that's like the main gist of the characters and this is basically all I remember from this show. It's old ish.

Does anyone know what its called?