Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Not a problem. I'll try to do the same for Sadono.

My issue with Wade is Blake Dexter may be the really guilty party and Hitman has a ridiculously high level of heinousness

I remember considering Wade, but I couldn't remember if he was acting under orders.

Though with Manfroy, I recall there being a scene where the good guys speculate nobody could become that bad on their own. I still think he counts as what this might be is never explored, but is it worthy of note?

I think it's more to show how evil Manfroy really is. Nothing indicates he has affected agency in any way. I think that was more of a "There's no way this guy should be this evil!" thing

@41503: Diavolo seemed to be expressing a taste-based objection to pointless killing (or perhaps just pragmatism) rather than a moral standard, as he can be just as brutal to civilians as Cioccolata when it serves his purposes. For comparison, Jack Welker once expressed a slight preference for killing painlessly, and Red Skull of all people fired someone for causing pointless bloodshed, which didn't stop either of them from qualifying.

Considering that Jojo now has a lengthy CM section (which might become its own page one day), I was thinking about adding an introductory paragraph. Something like this:

During its extraordinarily long run, this series has showcased a great variety of antagonists. Many are merely jerks; some are comical in their ineptitude; others still are sympathetic characters with understandable motives and tragic pasts. Then there's another breed of villain: those who commit horrific actions with no justification.

That might be a good opener. Please just wrap a Loads And Loads Of Characters around "great variety of antagonists". The "complete monster" pothole's probably only necessary if we give the work its own page.

Blake Dexter ordered Wade to kidnap Victoria, but it was entirely his own idea to assault and slaughter an orphanage full of nuns and other personnel to get to his target. I feel his extreme scumbaggery in the ways he taunts poor slow Lenny and how he plans on raping 47's dead body push him beyond the other villains in Absolution and likely the rest of the series. His boss Dexter has many redeeming qualities and the equally psychotic Saints all have Freudian Excuses. Wade has neither anything redeeming or any excuse, and we know associating with Dexter's organization didn't make him like he was since he worked for the Columbian drug cartels first.

If we are making a Jojo CM page, I propose this◊ as the page quote.

For Monday. There's also a cleaned-up Aerys II entry here. Is there enough detail for Aerys? It mentions him killing Rickard and Brandon, and trying to burn down King's Landing (though that's probably enough?).

• Vento Aureo ("Golden Wind"): Diavolo, the Big Bad of Vento Aureo, is the mysterious "boss" of Passione, who was ruthless enough to be able to edge out all the other Mafia families. However, he causes his more conscientious employees to rebel by rejecting the ethics adhered to by other mafiosi and selling hard drugs to minors. Driven by extreme paranoia, he resolves to erase all traces of his past identity and kill anyone who has seen his face. Years ago he attempted to kill his mother by sewing her mouth shut (a torment he later inflicts on a young boy) and burying her alive. He then burned his village to the ground, intending to kill everyone and being listed as a casualty; at least seven people are killed by this, and Diavolo intended to kill more. He rules his organization with an iron fist and makes a gruesome example of two of his elite assassins when they breach his privacy. He dismembers one of the men alive-which causes the other to commit suicide to avoid a similar fate-and then sends the bodies to their comrades as a macabre warning. When he learns that he has a teenage daughter, he responds by plotting to murder her, almost doing it himself before Bruno intervenes. Additionally, it was Diavolo who sold the Stand Arrows to Enya Geil, making him responsible for the outbreak of super-empowered villains that has driven the events of the series from Part III onward. Heartless, paranoid and grandiose, Diavolo believed himself to be a rightful emperor over the whole world and stopped at nothing in pursuit of power.
• Hellbound: Prosatanos is the emissary of Satan who strives to bring about Hell on Earth. During The Crusades period in the Holy Land, he kidnaps Richard The Lion Heart’s infant son and tries to sacrifice the prince for his royal blood. The King responds by sealing Prosatanos in a tomb and dismantling his scepter. After being awakened centuries later, Prosatanos sets about recovering the pieces of his scepter, killing their protectors in the process. Notably, he murders a Rabbi by ripping his heart out of his chest, an old Italian priest by throwing him out of a moving train, and a blind Israeli monk by crushing the helpless man's skull. He also has no problem with killing any bystanders who get in the way, or his allies as soon as they become a liability. In the climax he kidnaps his research assistant Leslie, who is revealed to be descended from nobility, to sacrifice her in his new ritual and bathe the world in fire.
• Lara Croft: Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life: Jonathan Reiss is a brilliant scientist and Nobel Prize laureate who makes a living designing and selling biological and chemical weapons to wealthy criminals from around the world. When he learns of the existence of Pandora's Box and the plague it carries he sells the disease to his clients under the pretense that it's merely a highly potent bio-weapon, but in reality it will spread across the world, killing anyone without access to the antidote he plans to create and provide only to the wealthiest and most powerful. In his quest to find Pandora's Box Reiss is merciless, even threatening to have a man's children infected with a deadly disease if he doesn't cooperate, and even as he dies he makes one last attempt to grab the Box.
• Bishop Manfroy, Dark Priest and leader of the Lopto Sect, spends years patiently preparing the way for the return of the dark god Loptyr . Using assassination and manipulation, Manfroy creates a massive war, which initiates the chaos necessary for his plans. To create Loptyr’s vessel, Manfroy kidnaps Deirdre, the wife of Sigurd, cruelly and gleefully erases all her memories of her beloved husband and son, and places her for his pawn Arvis to find, fall in love with and marry despite the fact she is his unknown half-sister. With his goal achieved, Manfroy awakens Loptyr in Deirdre's son Julius and sets about constructing a nightmarish dictatorship where children are sacrificed and any who resist are massacred. Manfroy even murders his own son-in-law and drives his daughter into madness, and also exerts mind control over Julius's twin sister Julia to make her kill her beloved friends with nothing less than sadistic relish. A manipulative priest of a Religion of Evil who seeks to enact an endless regime of nightmarish suffering for the sole reason that he can, Manfroy sticks out as the worst in the entire Holy War.
• Joffrey's predecessor, King Aerys II Targaryen, was also known as the Mad King. Among his worst acts was his execution of Rickard Stark; after the former demanded a fair Trial by Combat, Aerys had him slowly roasted over an open flame, reasoning that fire was his personal champion. Just for fun, he also forced Rickard's son Brandon to watch, while strapped to a torture device that slowly strangled him to death as he struggled to rescue his father. Aerys also made the decision to replace all of his competent councillors with deranged alchemists who shared his enthusiasm for burning people alive. Finally, when Aerys finally realized he had lost his war against the rebels, he decided to go out with a bang by ordering his pyromancers to use Wildfire to burn King's Landing to the ground-knowing that it would result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people-purely out of spite; while this was stopped by his bodyguard, there is no indication that all the Wildfire has been found.
• The World of Ice & Fire: King Maegor I Targaryen, the third King of Westeros, was better known as Maegor The Cruel, and was the ancestor to both Aerys II and Joffrey. He usurped the throne from his nephew and promptly decapitated the one Archmaester who protested. As king, Maegor turned to brutal tactics to suppress the Faith of the Seven, even riding on his dragon Balerion to burn down a Sept with all worshipers inside, using archers to pick off stragglers. Maegor proceeded to commit massacre after massacre, even passing off the skulls of poor smallfolk in the wrong place at the wrong time as members of the Faith's warriors. Worse still was Maegor's attitudes towards family: Maegor killed his own nephew in combat, and then had his second nephew captured and tortured to death. When one of his wives gave birth to a "stillborn monstrosity," Maegor had her, everyone at the birth, and her entire family executed. When his favorite wife revealed she'd poisoned said wife from jealousy, causing the monstrosity, Maegor cut her heart out and gave it to the dogs. Obsessed with having an heir, Maegor forcibly married three women, including his own niece. After having the Red Keep constructed, Maegor also had the builders massacred to keep its secrets to himself. Monstrous, brutal, violent and cruel, Maegor's excesses drove all Westeros to unite against him behind his only surviving nephew, Jaerharys, and Maegor is remembered to the present day as one of the greatest examples of an evil King.
• Tom Sawyer (2000): In this Direct to Video animated retelling of the classic Mark Twain tale, with an animal cast, Injun Joe, portrayed here as a grizzly bear named Injurin' Joe, manages to be even more vicious than his novel counterpart. Joe is a dangerous criminal who regularly robs the local church and its patrons, with the Town Sheriff too scared of Joe to stop him. Joe forces the innocent and dimwitted Mutt Potter to dig for treasure, then murders Deputy Bean for trying to confiscate the treasure that Potter unearths. Joe then frames Potter for this crime, and takes sadistic glee in watching him prepare to be executed. Throughout the film, Joe tries to murder Tom Sawyer and whichever of his friends happens to be with him at the time, for nothing more than revenge for saving Mutt Potter, and sadism. Greedy and sadistic, Injurin' Joe stood out as a shockingly dark villain for such a lighthearted film.

edited 5th Jul '15 11:39:20 AM by ACW

@ Lightysnake: I think the general issue with a lot of those remaining entries is that the majority of them sound like keeps, but very few people are familiar with the works themselves. With the exception of previously discussed characters like Lilaj Cuu or Eli Morrow, I'd like more people to vote on them. I'll see about messaging some of the people who added the examples to come in and make a case for them or promised to do their write-ups.

@ ACW: Ok, can you please tone it down with the excessive potholing? Sinkholes are explicitly discouraged by editing rules because they make a sentence harder to read; these "improvements" and your constant rewrites to the subpages have left a staggering number of entries with an absurd number of them, mostly redundant ones. After the 80th pothole to "Sadistic" and "For the Evulz" on a single subpage, people probably get the message that yes, these are very bad characters. 5 potholes in a single sentence to some vaguely apropros (and occasionally shoehorned or irrelevant) trope isn't clever; it's tiresome to read.

Just compare something like this:

• Blue Velvet: Frank Booth, a sadistic sociopath with a penchant for random acts of rape and violence, is introduced by savagely beating and raping an abused nightclub singer and then taunting her about her mutilated husband (said mutilation was done by Frank). It later turns out that Booth kidnapped the poor woman's husband and son (killing the husband in the process) only in order to make the woman his sadomasochistic Sex Slave, even cutting off her dead husband's ear and presenting it to her, just to torment her. When he figured out that Jeffrey Beaumont warned the police, he, in an act of reprisal, beats Dorothy nearly to death, strips her naked, and leaves her in front of Beaumont's house. During the ending, we also discovered he has also brutally lobotomized one of his henchmen after having killed Dorothy's husband.

to this:

• The Bone Collector: The titular Serial Killer abducts anyone in a taxi after killing the original driver, surgically removes a bone to be used as clues, and challenges Lincoln Rhyme and Amelia Donaghy to save them within a time limit, or else the victims will die a horrifically cruel death. However, most of his victims never had a real chance to be saved. Victims' fates include being scorched by steam, eaten by rats, drowning, and other collateral deaths, especially during Rhyme's 2-year-coma. Only a very young girl barely survived being drowned. The killer then confronts Rhyme, after killing a couple of Rhyme's associates. Revealed to be a former forensics cop who framed six people, one which hung himself, the killer believes they were guilty scum, and his work was impeccable. After going to prison, he wants revenge on Rhyme. The killer then gleefully taunts Rhyme that he and his helper couldn't save those victims. The killer then proceeds to completely paralyze Rhyme as a living vegetable, while mocking his dreaded fate. When he failed, he settles to gut Rhyme alive, after considering other methods. Despite his six-year abuse in prison, it was his own fault he went to prison, so the Bone Collector is cold-blooded, remorseless, and sadistically revenge driven.

Which of these flows naturally, and which looks like a bumpy road?

edited 4th Jul '15 11:48:52 AM by Morgenthaler

Speaking of Frank, here's a small touch up: "taunting her about her husband who he mutilated."

I really need to agree with Morgenthaler on this. The excessive sink holing needs to stop.

I just noticed under the complete monster section for Torchwood: Children of Earth, we have the 456 aliens listed. Isn't there a rule where groups can't count as an example?

I think that one is more a collective entity

I think that's been brought up before, maybe there should be a note clarifying what it is.

Guys, we're allowed to put up excerpts here, right?

Happy Independence Day!

I have seen a Let's Play of KGB, so here is an effort post on Verto:

Who is Verto and What does he do?

Verto is the Starter Villain and Disc-One Final Boss. Verto and his gang run a business where they get women to come to their place under the pretense of making them actresses in movies, however, their true intentions are to rape, torture, and kill the women. They than make snuff films out of it and sell them. Eventually, other criminal groups hear about Verto's snuff film business and work with him to expand the distribution, selling the films far and wide in exchange for getting a cut in the profits themselves. The other criminal groups also use this line of business to run two other lines: a prostitution ring and a drug cartel (which Verto presumably does not take part in). These three lines are the main focus of the game, and as Captain Maksim Rukov, it is your job to take out all the members one by one, starting with Verto.

does he stand out?

He's the one who does the actual raping and killing. You find a meat locker with 7 corpses inside. You are told that the locker is regularly emptied out. You also find photographs of one of the rapes in progress (thankfully you don't actually see the photos themselves). When he captures you, he tells you that he will use you in his next snuff film (it's never said if he and his men are going to rape you like they did with the women, or if they're just going to kill you). A man reveals that he was forced to help dispose of the bodies after Verto threatened to release photos of him and his men raping the man's daughter (I never understand it when a person tries to blackmail another person with photos like that, they will have their crimes revealed and if anyone dares to harass the victim about such things, the victim can just kick their ass or have them arrested for harassment). I say he stands out.

edited 4th Jul '15 4:39:27 PM by bobg

Verto. No reason not to.
Morgen and OE: I'll try.

edited 4th Jul '15 5:14:10 PM by ACW

Question; would villains from an All Just a Dream plot be able to count as Monsters, even if said dream-plot is an Ass Pull made at the last minute?

Right, then. I mainly ask because I'll be seeing Robot Monster solely for the purpose of seeing if the Great Guidance counts, and that movie seems to shoehorn in the All Just a Dream ending.

edited 4th Jul '15 5:54:52 PM by Scraggle

It's very unlikely; there does need to be some in-universe objective reality we can use to establish a heinous standard. With some exceptions, most stories using tropes like All Just a Dream or Through the Eyes of Madness don't qualify for this one because of it.

When it's firmly relegated to the background however, that shouldn't be a problem. I'd cite Total Recall (1990) as one such case, where its villains were disqualified for reasons other than the "is all this really happening?" question.

@Bobg: That's a long list of deeds for just a Starter Villain. Verto.

Verto. Stands out for a Starter Villain.

Verto

On the 456 question, the 456 is just one creature. It's called 456 because that is the frequency it made it's initial demands on and when asked what to call it by the government it's response was "You call me 456 already. Stick with that."

Can a CM who Face Death with Dignity still remain a monster ? It's not a redeemable trait, is it ?

edited 5th Jul '15 5:06:53 AM by ST89