During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
The wifi here sucks
What’s the Work?
Dice Funk is a D&D podcast hosted by Austin Yorski. This EP focuses on Season 2 Lorelei in which the Lorelei region is threatened by a massive flood which threatens to wipe out the whole region. In it, Violet the unicorn, Alias the eladrin, Lavinia the Dryad (aka Vinnie), and Drop the human go on an adventure to figure out what caused the flood and how to possibly save the world.
Who is Jem and what does she do?
Jem is a Half-Orc, the daughter of a deceased human who was a member of the council that runs the city of Mykonos and an Orc soldier stationed in the Tiger Mountains. Due to the flooding the council has started to do a number of bad things to keep themselves safe at the expense of others, abandoning the Orcs and barricading the upper levels of the city to mitigate the flooding, leaving the lower levels to flood and the poor to die. Jem grows to resent the council and the rich and powerful members of the city and resolves to “do bad to do good.” In the past Jem and her friends went on a hunting trip and Jem was attacked by a Wyvern and became a Werewyvern, a power which caused her a lot of emotional problems and which she decided to use to bring the upper class to justice.
Jem began killing people every night by stabbing them with her Wyvern tail which allows her to kill people without the police catching on. She killed the entire council as well as anyone who was “politically or financially powerful.” For several months she does this without issue and eventually the police disband both due to her and the general chaos of the city. Eventually Jem’s friend Isaac decides to hunt down the Serial Killer since he’s one of the only rich and powerful people left in the city and has lost friends and his brother.
Eventually the Player Characters (sans Drop who was elsewhere in the city) go to Isaac’s house in response to him putting out a bounty on the killer. Jem fangirls over Lavinia (who’s a celebrity in Lorelei) and eventually kisses her and they kind of hook up. A massive riot breaks out and people start attacking the P Cs, and Jem figures out the best way for all of them to escape by her and Vinnie flying to inform their ship to pick them up where they are trapped instead of the planned pickup location. Along the way Jem breaks into the Temple of Primus in the city so Vinnie can steal an important magical item. She manages to scare off the rioters and everyone escapes. However Tusk, an Orc soldier that the party recruited, informs her of the fact that the entire Orc army was wiped out by the infamous Sky Pirates, the Blackhearts and she leaves to go to the mountains.
Much later the players return to the Tiger Mountains in order to get the Blackhearts to help them. They find that Jem has recruited the female relatives of the deceased Orcs and has trapped the Blackhearts in a cave. She blames the Gnoll Sherry but Drop tells her that his actions resulted in the fight that killed the Orcs and so she challenges him to single combat. The fight goes poorly for her as Drop’s magic imbued punches are able to hurt her normally impenetrable skin. She uses some underhanded tactics to try and kill him, flying him high into the air and dropping him, and at one point faking surender in order to stab him in the back. Drop prevails however but spares Jem which she didn’t expect. Eventually after a long heart to heart with Vinnie, she’s convinced to forgive them and Vinnies removes her lycanthropy.
Is she magnificent?
I’d say so, she was a successful serial killer for months without being caught and was right under the nose of the upper class the whole time. She completely saves the players when they try to leave Mykonos with her quick thinking, even stealing them a very important magical item. And she later rallys the female Orcs to her side in order to take revenge on the people who killed her father. I personally don’t think that her more underhanded moves while fighting Drop are mitigating as it’s very clear that she has no chance against him in a normal fight. She’s a very tragic character with a lot of angst which surfaces in her second encounter with the party but she’s still an effective and likable character who is able to get over her problems with Vinnie’s help.
Bastard? Too much?
She’s certainly not a good person but everyone she targets are people who she believes deserve to die. We don’t see her victims while they’re alive since her murder spree is mostly over by the time the party arrives but we do see the horrible stuff they have done with many poor citizens of Mykonos dead and the Orcs left to die in the mountains. Admittedly she does kill a number of people who aren’t members of the council but she does know the people she’s targeting due to being of high standing herself and she doesn’t target Isaac since she knows he didn’t do anything wrong.
Competition?
This is the only sticking point for me. In the show the other biggest schemers are Phiro from the first season (which is canon to the second season) who pretended to be a freedom fighter and rallied the people of Stoneroot to help her conquer it which was largely successful until a fire destroyed the city, and Welch who procured many powerful magic items and impersonated a Bullywug in order to gain more power and was only undone due to a spontaneous spell by Vinnie. I’d argue that Jem still holds up as she lacks powerful magic Welch had or the small army that Phiro had, and is successful in pulling off her much smaller scale schemes.
Conclusion?
I’d say she counts
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Soundwave and Jem.
Honestly I don't see the underhanded tactics as mitigating at all. In fact they push her to a weak for me, since I wasn't really getting much cunning from the EP, just moral ambiguity and charm.
She seems evasive enough in her operations. I'll say yes.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Jem.
This took some doing. Lot of canon to sort through. But anyway, here's Riddick.
What is the work?
The Chronicles of Riddick, a multi-media franchise starring Vin Diesel as Anti-Hero Richard B. Riddick, a One-Man Army and Knife Nut who can see in the dark. While originally purely science fiction, it later shifted into Science Fantasy, with Riddick's origins also revealing him to be the last member of a group of Human Aliens. Anyway, it's set in the 27th century, with humanity already having colonized many planets that are now governed autonomously. Part Feudal Future, part Space Western, but mostly Crapsack World.
Since he's the protagonist, he appears in every entry with a LOT of actions to his name, so bear with me. While Riddick was first introduced in Pitch Black, I'll go in chronological order just for convenience's sake (Butcher Bay, Dark Athena, Pitch Black, Dark Fury, Chronicles, Riddick).
Who is Riddick? What has he done?
Not much is known of Riddick's youth other than that he was born on the planet Furya and somehow survived the massacre of his civilization at the hands of a warlord named Zhylaw, who would later become the supreme ruler of the Necromonger empire. Riddick would later join the military of the human planet he grew up on, until at some point he became a criminal wanted for murder, and then an escaped convict.
In Escape from Butcher Bay, Riddick is transported to the Butcher Bay prison planet by a bounty hunter named Johns. Riddick quickly makes enemies with the local Aquila gang when he buys a shiv without paying them their tax, before killing their leader Rust to provoke a Prison Riot. Amidst the chaos, Riddick is able to jump into a subterranean area to reach Pigsville, the guard's sector. Donning some guard's clothes, Riddick infiltrates it and nearly kills Abbott, the chief guard, before Johns interferes. Riddick is banished to the mines of Butcher Bay, where Riddick kills a notorious guard in gladiatorial combat to get Abbot to come down there to torture Riddick, who he then also kills to steal his keycard. Riddick meats with a prisoner named Jagger and forms a plan to break into a cavern filled with hungry aliens who proceed to attack the guards all over the facility. However, Riddick is again stopped by Johns, who also kills Jagger. At this point the Warden, Hoxie, has had enough and chooses to simply have Riddick placed in cryostasis, only let out for five minutes exercise every day. Riddick manages to find a flaw in the system and escapes, stealing a Mini-Mecha to lay waste to the executive offices before killing Hoxie and escaping the planet with Johns as part of an Enemy Mine.
In Assault on Dark Athena, Riddick's and Johns' ship is picked up by the mercenary vessel Dark Athena, commanded by a sociopathic Space Pirate named Gale Revas. Riddick avoids capture and proceeds to stalk Revas and her crew, also running into a little girl named Lynn whose parents were taken. Riddick finds his way to the prisoner decks, where he finds Lynn's mother (who is later killed by an inmate by the name of Jaylor who wanted to kill her and rape her; Riddick makes sure he's not able to make true on the second) as well as other inmates who wish to help him. Revas is running an operation whereby they attack unsuspecting colonies, kill or capture everyone to loot the place, and take the survivors to turn them into slaves or harvest their corpses as robo-zombies. Riddick eventually manages to release the prisoners, but Revas interrupts Riddick's escape, shooting down his escape pod so it crashes down on Aguerra, the planet she was in the process of invading. Riddick tracks his way back through the warzone to find the Athena docked at the local spaceport, killing Revas' second-in-command Spinner, saving Lynn, and having the robo-soldiers reprogrammed so they turn on the crew. With Revas' operation destroyed, she fights Riddick in Powered Armor before falling to her death down the elevator shaft.
Several years pass...
In Pitch Black, Riddick has been recaptured by Johns, who intends to take him back to whichever prison will pay him. However, the transport ship they're on, the Hunter Gratzner, crashes down on a barren planet after encountering a swarm of micro meteors. Most of the 40-odd crew are killed when the pilot, Carolyn Fry, purges most of the compartments during the crash landing, with only about 12 making it out, including Johns and Riddick. Riddick attempts escape immediately after he wakes up, but Johns beats and ties him up. Riddick soon notices that the beam he's tied to is damaged, and dislocates both his shoulders to slip the cuffs through the gap and escape. He disappears and sporadically stalks the crew, cutting off some of Fry's hairs and stealing their booze. However, when one of the survivors is eaten by the bioraptors that dwell below the surface and are averse to sunlight, Riddick is believed responsible and captured by Johns after he takes Riddick's goggles that protect his eyes.
After proving the existence of the bioraptors, Johns strikes another deal with Riddick to get off the planet. The survivors found a spaceship at a nearby Ghost Town settlement, but need fuel cells to power it. Johns tries to stall, figuring that Riddick will otherwise steal them. The planet, which experiences a solar eclipse once every 22 years, is engulfed in darkness, and they have to rely on Riddick and his eyesight to make it out. As the Dwindling Party keeps growing smaller, Riddick eventually turns on Johns after he suggest killing the teenager Jack to use her as bait, killing him instead and pointing out that his own greed ultimately led him to this. Riddick abandons the others not much later, trapping them in a cave with no light to make it off the planet by himself. Carolyn makes it to the ship by improvising a light source from bioluminescent larvae, where Riddick tries to convince her to leave the others behind and join him. She refuses, which intrigues Riddick enough to help her. However, Riddick himself is later trapped between two bioraptors when Carolyn goes back to save him. She is ultimately killed by a bioraptor, but Riddick promises that she did not die in vain and makes it off the planet with Jack and the preacher Imam.
In Dark Fury, their ship is captured by the Kublai Khan, another mercenary vessel controlled by Antonia Chillingsworth, an aristocratic Mad Artist who likes subjecting her prey to being Taken for Granite. Riddick kills several mercs before yielding when Jack's life is threatened by the first officer, Junner. Riddick agrees to fight deadly aliens for Chillingsworth's amusement, before escaping with Jack and Imam and sabotaging the ship. After killing Junner in a one-on-one fight, Riddick himself is shot and almost killed by Chillingsworth before Jack kills the latter to save Riddick.
In The Chronicles of Riddick, which picks up four years later, Riddick is hiding on a remote planet being hunted by a mercenary crew led by a guy named Toombs who all die within minutes—Riddick mocks him for bringing only three guys and calls it insulting. Riddick travels to New Mecca, figuring that only Imam knew where he went. Imam was trying to reach Riddick to warn him of a mysterious empire depopulating entire worlds. These are led by the Lord Marshal, an Evil Overlord who is neither alive nor dead after visiting the underverse, and can do things such as taking the souls of mortals and also project his own soul in a manner giving him Combat Clairvoyance. An air elemental named Aereon informs Riddick of the prophecy she once gave Zhylaw, that a Furyan would one day kill him and thus tried to exterminate them all. That same night, the Necromongers attack the Helion system, overwhelming its defenses before forcing those captured to convert to the Necromonger religion. The Lord Marshal meets Riddick as he refuses to bow before him and kills one of his best warriors, handing Riddick the dead man's knife as among their people, "You keep what you kill". Zhylaw has Riddick interrogated by his psychics and learns of his heritage, ordering his death.
Riddick escapes until he is recaptured by Toombs, who plans to take him to another prison planet, this time Crematoria. Riddick allows himself to be captured and tricks Toombs into going there since Jack, who now calls herself Kyra (she was pretending to be a boy earlier for safety reasons), was sent there after she joined a group of criminals. The guards get into a dispute with Toombs and his crew about the price, which turns into a gun battle the next day when they discover that Toombs nabbed a prisoner from the Necromongers. Riddick lays out exactly what happened (as it is basically the same thing he planned to do anyway) with the guards traveling through an underground tunnel to escape with the onle spacecraft. Riddick and the other prisoners travel over the surface, where the temperatures swing about 1000 degrees celsius between night and day—only the twilight is survivable. Zhylaw has sent his best general, Lord Vaako, to track down Riddick. Vaako and his men run into the prison guards and kill all of them, before taking down Riddick and leaving him for dead, and capturing Kyra. Riddick is saved by one of the Lord Marshal's servants, a former Furyan who was sent to deliver a message to Riddick: do not pursue Zhylaw, and you will be spared.
Of course, Riddick does so anyway, sneaking onboard their capital ship and confronting the Lord Marshall in a duel to the Death before learning that Kyra has become a Necromonger. Riddick manages to wound the Lord Marshal, who fatally wounds Kyra when she tries to intervene. This drives Vaako, who has come to doubt Zhylaw's judgment, to attempt to kill him and take his throne. Zhylaw attempts to flee by transporting his soul elsewhere, but realizes too late that no matter where he rematerializes he is now trapped between two bad choices: either he can die by Vaako's hand or he can die by Riddick's hand. He chooses the latter. Riddick comforts a dying Kyra, before he looks up to realize that by Necromonger law, he is now Lord Marshal.
In Riddick, Riddick has essentially become king by his own hand, ruling over a Religion of Evil willing to do his every bidding. However, as Riddick is an outsider and a lone wolf at heart, he does not enjoy being Lord Marshal and the paranoia that comes with it. Every Necromonger can contest his position if they see any sign of weakness, and Riddick wonders if even the concubines are planning to kill him in sleep. One of them actually tries to, but Riddick kills her first. Riddick strikes a deal with Vaako to give him the location of Furya, but Riddick is betrayed by Vaako's lieutenant Krone and left for dead on a desert planet. Riddick manages to avoid the planet's wolflike predators and heal his wounds, but in order to reach the grassy wetlands he has to travel through a dangerous pass inhabited by large, amphibious scorpion-like aliens. Riddick starts capturing smaller ones and harvesting their venom to build up an immunity to it. He also finds an abandoned wolf pup to test the venom on, before adopting it when it breaks out of its restraints. Riddick succeeds in making it past the mega-scorpions, finding a mercenary base in the grasslands and intentionally activating the emergency beacon.
This draws in two separate mercenary crews, one led by a Smug Snake named Santana, and a more professional group led by a guy named Boss Johns (father of the same, who wants to know why Riddick killed him). To prevent Riddick from stealing one of their ships, they take a fuel cell from each and put them in a cabinet with an encoded explosive lock on it. Riddick proceeds to stalk the mercenaries, screwing with their sensors and luring them into a minefield stocked with massive bear traps, and later leading them to his cave so he can creep around the base and damage the deep space communications. Riddick leaves the message "Fair Trade" on the cabinet to trick them into opening it, then later steals and buries them. Riddick has figured out that a monsoon will soon sweep the plains, which will cause the scorpions to infest the place and kill everything they find. Riddick meets the mercs to make a bargain, but instead they capture him after killing his wolf. Riddick kills Santana with his own machete with only his foot after the latter tries to kill him, then travels with the mercs to retrieve the power cells, but is double crossed again. While cornered by the aliens, Riddick is saved by Boss Johns and his gunship, who comes to terms with his son being a Dirty Coward and gifts Riddick with a ship. Riddick finds and kills Krone and then goes after Vaako, who he finds out has accessed the dimensional gateway to the underverse.
To be continued?
How do his actions and personality show he is a Magnificent Bastard?
Riddick is a brutal killer but also dangerously cunning. Many times, he's able to orchestrate events to his advantage to engineer his own escape or otherwise serve his interests. He's very perceptive, quickly picking up on details in any area he finds himself (take this lovely scene for just one such moment) in or using a Batman Gambit to make people behave in ways he wants them to. He's also familiar with most technology, and was trained as a pilot. He's clearly a Genius Bruiser.
Riddick is firmly an Anti-Hero: his actions are wholly based on what he has to do survive the miserable universe he finds himself in. If he has to kill someone who gets in his way, he absolutely will, but he does not enjoy killing for its own sake and balks at simply harming innocent people. He's also capable of forming some human bonds, such as with Imam and Jack/Kyra, and it's suggested he really did admire Carolyn.
He also has several standards that are showcased multiple times: he does not approve of rape, nor of hurting children.
- While Riddick is a Chivalrous Pervert at some points towards Carolyn and the female mercenary Dahl (although it's not always a one-way street), he doesn't actually force himself on anyone. He even has Foe Yay with Revas of all people, mockingly flirting with her through the intercom and stealing her hairpin to make a shiv out of it. He inherited the Lord Marshall's wives, but they are willing participants (while the Necromongers are pretty patriarchial, women can still wield a lot of power, such as Dame Vaako constantly proving herself far more power-hungry than her own husband). His flirting with Dahl is a bit hamfisted ("Before this is over I'm gonna be balls-deep in Dahl, but only because she'll ask me sweetly"—basically Salladhoor Saan vis-a-vis Cersei Lannister). Given the setting, with murder, rape and Rape, Pillage, and Burn being pretty common occurences, he's practically a gentleman compared to characters like Santana, who actually tried to rape Dahl, Jaylor, who tried to violate a woman's corpse after murdering her, and was also disgusted by Santana shooting one of his previous captives after strong implications that he and most of his crew used her as a sex slave. He's additionally not amused by Krone abusing his wives.
- When it comes to children, Riddick will regularly go out of his way to protect them, such as preventing Johns from killing Jack and protecting Lynn from Revas' soldiers. According to background material, Johns Jr. also captured Riddick prior to Pitch Black by using child hostages.
This universe is clear Black-and-Gray Morality. There are much worse people than Riddick in this setting and several are listed as a Complete Monster.
Mitigating Factors?
Riddick is not infallible or invincible; there are times when he's either outnumbered (Vaako plus soldiers vs. Riddick, Riddick vs. 10,000 scorpions), outgunned (Johns in Butcher Bay sneaking up on him with a gun), or simply betrayed (Boss Johns initially leaving him behind). However, in these instances, he's either able to crawl back up, or willing to fight to the bitter end.
Verdict?
I think he passes with flying colors.
Edited by Morgenthaler on Aug 2nd 2020 at 5:17:41 AM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Yes for the Genius Bruiser.
to Riddick
Oh fuck the hell yes to Richard B. Riddick
Shockwave, Raymond, Lee, Soundwave, Jem and Riddick
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Aiden
Easy Riddick.
Riddick.
to Riddick
for Riddick.
Yes to Riddick.
I'll definitely give a yes to Riddick.
Anyways here are my trio of Thieve's Guild write ups.
- The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind: "Gentleman" Jim Stacey is the leader of the Morrowind Thieve's Guild and seeks to expands his organization's influence in a xenophobic nation. A charismatic and quick thinking master thief, he fights back against his criminal rivals the Camonna Tong and their Fighter's Guild puppets by cleansing the latter of its corrupt leadership. Using bribery and blackmail to turn a few leaders to his side, he eventually organizes the assassination of the Fighter's Guild leader to ensure to the Tong is too weak to further target his people. Outside of such dirty business, Stacey shows his softer side by reviving the Bal Molagmer order to aid the less fortunate in Vvardenfell, while also improving his guild's image in the eyes of the common people. Between stealing valuables for overtaxed peasants and giving them lands deeds to save their homes, he uncovers corruption in many of the higher echelons of dark elf society, and he ultimately retires content with the future of his guild ensured.
- The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion: The Gray Fox is the leader of the Cyrodiil Thieve's Guild and a mysterious rogue who's plans and identity are hidden behind the ancient Gray Cowl of Nocturnal. Known only in rumors and hearsay to commoners, he ensures his guild's secrecy by caring for the homeless and using them as spies and only offering membership to criminals who pass cleverly devised trials. In reality Count Umbranox of Anvil cursed by the Cowl with eternal anonymity, he masterminds the ultimate heist of one of the Elder Scrolls themselves. He first organizes his guard captain nemesis reassigned to protect his countess wife and uses a magical crystal he had stolen to spy on the Imperial Palace. Using this information, he flawlessly plans the heist to allow his accomplice to sneak into the palace through a forgotten tunnel and even be handed one of the scrolls under a guise. Ultimately revealed to have planned the heist not out of glory, the Gray Fox uses the Elder Scroll to undue his curse and reunite with his beloved wife.
- The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Karliah Indoril was once the co-leader of the Skyrim Thieve's Guild alongside her lover Gallus, but was framed into exile for his death by his real murdered, Mercer Frey. Thriving in exile, she first tries to cut off the guild from their financial support, Black-Briar Meadery, by cutting off honey supplies and even funding a rival meadery for competition. These plans foiled by a rising thief, Karliah tricks them and Mercer to a ruin wherein she tricks Mercer into confessing and turns the new thief to her side. Having Gallus's journal translated from a cipher, she reveals Mercer's betrayal to the rest of the guild and shows herself to be a Nightingale, an agent of Nocturnal, and seeks to retrieve the stolen Skeleton Key from Mercer. Leveraging the souls of her fellows into Nocturnal's service as new Nightingales, Karliah has them help her track down and kill Mercer, return the Skeleton Key to her mistress to regain her standing, and ultimately reunite with her lover's spirit one last time.
Based on what I read, to Lee. Reminds me that I still gotta see Phone Booth.
As I said on the Monster Cleanup thread, my 29th birthday is today.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Again happy birthday.
Easy yes to Riddick. I guess he would go to Other Media under the multiple media section considering he appears in at least three forms of it.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Isn't Riddick mostly in live-action movies? Also thanks Lore!
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
The EP just mentioned two videogames and one Animated film. But I am no expert on the franchise so if other people think he should mostly go to Film that's fine. I was just curious.
In that case I'd be fine with a Multimedia section on Other Media.
I support film myself. He originated there and it's his three most prominent films. We do the same for guys like Khan
In regards to Robots in Disguise, he has two major episodes about him. And both of them feature Soundwave as a No-Nonsense Nemesis and The Dreaded. And he earned it. Any potential Badass Decay or Villain Decay has been explained away by Bumblebee as being trapped in the Shadowzone for quite some time and thus was out of practice. He was straight to the point of trying to contact Megatron the moment he got out. After being thrown into the Shadowzone again, he bided his time in the Shadowzone until Steeljaw's benefactors from Cybertron give him Mini-Cons to collect resources for him to escape and enact his plan of contacting Megatron.
In his second major appearance, it required Team Bee plus Optimus Prime to stop his plan and even then, Soundwave was able to put up a strong fight and nearly succeeded had Bumblebee not gain the Decepticon Hunter tool that gives him freeze ability and super armor to stop Soundwave, and had Optimus not link up with Hi-Test, a Mini-Con who once worked for Soundwave, to destroy the device at the very last second. And Soundwave doesn't undergo any Villainous Breakdown, just shuts himself down in stasis.
His evilness was a bit more pronounced here, especially with his giant satellite rendering Earth uninhabitable but he sees it as just collateral damage to his real goal, summoning Megatron.
And while Hi-Test does join up with Team Bee, Soundwave was pragmatic with him. He berated Hi-Test for being the only Mini-Con to fail and thus has become liability to Soundwave's plan (i.e. risk exposing Soundwave to the Autobots). But he didn't threaten to terminate him, only stated that he must return to the Shadowzone, until the Mini-Con fled, which Soundwave then stated he'll terminate him at earliest opportunity.
As for Steeljaw, Soundwave betraying Steeljaw has no consequences for him. He beats Steeljaw into retreat and Steeljaw never does anything to make Soundwave pay for his betrayal. No Enemy Mine, no sabotage. Soundwave does know how to pick his Unwitting Pawns.
So I say that even in Robots in Disguise, he's a still Magnificent Bastard as he was from Prime. He just has less resources and had to step up as a mastermind.
Overall,![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
to Soundwave.