Complaining: Idiot Plot

To-do list:

As Idiot Plot is Flame Bait, instances of the wick must be removed. Cases in which it's clear the trope's being discussed are safe to keep.
A sandbox to track safe wicks can be found here.

Original post

Note: This thread was proposed by The Mayor Of Simpleton.

The problem: Idiot Plot is a YMMV item about, as the description puts it, "a Plot that hangs together only because the main characters behave like idiots." From the description:

A single intelligent move or question by any of the characters, and all problems would be resolved. It's not so bad if the characters are supposed to be acting like idiots, but it's very bad if the Idiot Plot depends on intelligent characters picking up the Idiot Ball for the plot to work.

Even worse than that is the "Second-Order Idiot Plot", in which the plot can only function if the world population suddenly loses about 50 IQ points.

The description also mentions that the term "Idiot Plot" was coined by Science Fiction author James Blish, popularized by the film critic Roger Ebert, and even the "second-order idiot plot" term was coined by Damon Knight. This indicates that this a pre-existing term that is legitimately worth documenting.

Unfortunately, as can probably be expected from the name and premise, this YMMV item is being used as a sort of plot version of What an Idiot!, often complaining, whining, and snarking about plots where the characters were ostensibly stupid. I kept seeing this on YMMV pages, and decided to do a wick check (with a little help from Chloe Jessica.)

The wick check: Here's the check. Full results in the link, but here's the quick results:

10/54 examples were both correct and neutral, or 18.52%
30/54 examples were used to complain or written in a complain-y tone, or 55.56%
4/54 misused examples, or 7.41%
9/54 zero context, unclear, or other examples, or 16.67%, and
1/54 unclassifiable wicks, or 1.85%

Totaled together, that's

10/54 correct use, or 18.52%, and
43/54 incorrect use, or 79.63%

Analysis of wicks: So, as can be seen, lots and lots of complaining. Many examples described characters and plots in a very snarky way, sometimes skimping on context in the process, with or without Bold Inflation. A slight bit of misuse as well, sometimes mentioning just one character being stupid, and not others. Overall, I'm getting big What an Idiot! vibes from the usage. Furthermore, as I understand it YMMV items are supposed to document audience reactions. Many of these examples were just one troper's opinion on a work.

Recommended solution(s): I've got two.

My preferred option would be to convert this item into a Definition-Only Page. As mentioned, this is a perfectly valid term with its own history, but since there's so much complaining in the examples, it might be worth it just to ditch the examples altogether.
Alternatively, if we really want to preserve the examples, we could move this page to Darth. It would give the complaining a space to exist, without polluting YMMV pages as it often does. (Although I still prefer Def-Only, if only because I detest complaining tropes.)

What does everyone else think? Any other ideas or solutions?

Edited by Berrenta on Oct 13th 2022 at 6:25:32 AM

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle

the Retromancer

#26: Oct 6th 2022 at 8:43:57 PM

I like the idea of splitting, but "Unintentionally Unintelligent" sounds familiar. Was it brought up in What An Idiot thread?

Edited by Amonimus on Oct 6th 2022 at 6:44:17 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015

#27: Oct 7th 2022 at 8:27:01 PM

I did bring it up there. Since we'll be removing Idiot Plot example this seems like a good time to discuss possible replacements.

GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me

Sounds good on paper (he/him)

#28: Oct 8th 2022 at 12:26:10 AM

Calling in favor of making Idiot Plot Flame Bait. I'll handle the indexing since the Flame Bait index is locked.

Edit: Done. I locked the main page and cut the example subpages since it's definition-only.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 8th 2022 at 2:41:46 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual

#29: Oct 8th 2022 at 7:54:54 AM

Should IdiotPlot.Star Wars be removed from Locked Pages since it's deleted now?

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me

Sounds good on paper (he/him)

#30: Oct 8th 2022 at 10:46:21 AM

I'll remove those and add the main page.

Edit: Done.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 8th 2022 at 12:48:24 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

sudrictoon He/him from Sodor/Crystal Tokyo Since: Feb, 2021 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love

He/him

#31: Oct 8th 2022 at 10:49:16 AM

I was browsing a YMMV page and found out that this trope is flame bait now. Should I remove it?

We are the best friends, we stand as one. Whatever life may bring, we are never alone.

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual

#32: Oct 8th 2022 at 10:50:09 AM

Yes. No links to Flame Bait pages are allowed outside of other Flame Bait pages.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me

Sounds good on paper (he/him)

#33: Oct 8th 2022 at 10:52:12 AM

Plus it's definition-only, so examples are no longer allowed anywhere.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 8th 2022 at 12:52:25 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

sudrictoon He/him from Sodor/Crystal Tokyo Since: Feb, 2021 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love

He/him

#34: Oct 8th 2022 at 10:53:21 AM

Ok, thanks.

We are the best friends, we stand as one. Whatever life may bring, we are never alone.

ANonagon9 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary

#35: Oct 8th 2022 at 4:51:32 PM

> That said, calling real life people idiots is easy Flame Bait so No Real Life Examples, Please!

Seeing that no examples are allowed anyway, I think this sentence is just redundant.

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010

NaNo 4328 / 50,000

#36: Oct 8th 2022 at 7:00:13 PM

Correct.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

ANonagon9 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary

#37: Oct 8th 2022 at 7:58:16 PM

Okay cool! I'd fix it myself, but the page is locked.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me

Sounds good on paper (he/him)

#38: Oct 8th 2022 at 11:23:50 PM

I removed it. I'll also remove it from NRLEP since we no longer allow any examples.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

ANonagon9 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary

#39: Oct 9th 2022 at 4:09:18 AM

Thanks!

themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining

Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him

#40: Oct 9th 2022 at 1:50:17 PM

YMMV A is done, minus a couple of pages where the Idiot Plot wick was the only example, both of which I've cutlisted. 1887 left.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Oct 9th 2022 at 4:51:30 AM

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love

How sweet it is

#41: Oct 9th 2022 at 8:27:34 PM

Clearing out some YMMV pages at random. I did encounter some What An Idiot wicks in a few pages. I guess they were never cleared out...

At least two of those were on the "Not Always X" series, which means that if they're real stories, that's an entirely different can of worms, thus they can't move over.

Edited by Berrenta on Oct 9th 2022 at 10:30:06 AM

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

costanton11 Since: Mar, 2016

#42: Oct 10th 2022 at 6:51:59 AM

I think the What An Idiot clean up is still ongoing, so people hadn’t gotten to those ones yet.

Edited by costanton11 on Oct 10th 2022 at 2:03:40 PM

WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love

Bonnie's Artistic Cousin

#43: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:22:41 AM

Yeah, I had to remove a ton of What An Idiot wicks while doing Uncanny Valley stuff.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love

How sweet it is

#44: Oct 11th 2022 at 8:02:19 AM

I'm also doing non-YMMV wicks, just in case.

The following are declared safe:

All indices (obviously)
Darth Wiki/ pages that aren't unfinished works. This includes SBIH subpages.
Creator.Roger Ebert (Trope Namer)
What An Idiot subpages
WebVideo.Cinema Sins (wick in description, likely discussed by the channel creator)
WebVideo.Dragon Ball Dissection (discussed by reviewer, so likely a safe wick)
Example subpage for Honest Trailers (discussed)
Podcast.Science Fiction Book Review Podcast (discussed by reviewer)

Dethroning Moment/ subpages are likely safe, too, as it's troper opinions.

Edited by Berrenta on Oct 11th 2022 at 10:32:46 AM

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love

How sweet it is

#45: Oct 13th 2022 at 4:36:04 PM

Okay, sandbox for safe namespaces made. It's right here. Note: I could have placed AVGN/ there...if the example wasn't a ZCE!

Archived wick check

Why?: Idiot Plot is supposed to be about a plot where all the main characters have to behave like idiots for the plot to hold together. This definition inherently attracts complaining, and misuse may also need to be checked for.

Wicks checked: 54/54

Wick totals:

10/54 examples were both correct and neutral, or 18.52%
30/54 examples were used to complain or written in a complain-y tone, or 55.56%
4/54 misused examples, or 7.41%
9/54 zero context, unclear, or other examples, or 16.67%, and
1/54 unclassifiable wicks, or 1.85%

Totaled together, that's

10/54 correct use, or 18.52%, and
43/54 incorrect use, or 79.63%

open/close all folders

Correct, neutrally written use (10/54)

YMMV.Game Of Thrones S 7 E 3 The Queens Justice: The meeting between Jon and Dany suffers from this according to some. The scene neglects compelling reasons for the debate, and the entire scene exists for contrived Conflict Ball and Rule of Drama to delay Tyrion and Dany coming to the Wall and yet keep them sympathetic for not simply prioritizing the White Walkers right away:
- Jon could have invoked Maester Aemon (Dany's own great-uncle) sending a letter and warning of the Long Night, being both a connection with family that would appeal to Dany and would be harder for her to neglect, Ser Davos could have mentioned that Stannis went North to the aid of the Night's Watch and believed in the Long Night, and both could have cited how the entire North and the Vale believe in it and are preparing for the Long Night. Instead, Davos insists that Dany believe Jon because by speaking of his character when they have some testimonials to invoke, which is also reinforced in Jon's conversation with Tyrion when Jon wonders how he can convince people this threat is real.
- Ser Davos likewise acts as if he has never had experience in politics and diplomacy, such as missing a beat on listing Jon's titles, saying merely "King in the North" rather than 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and The White Wolf. In fact, he bartered with the Iron Bank, accompanied Jon and Sansa on their progress across the North to rally allies, and was in service to King Stannis Baratheon, who was particularly insistent on feudal titles and roles.
- There are solid rebuttals to Jon Snow's argument that the "game" in the South of who gets to be King doesn't matter even with the Long Night approaching, i.e. the rations for winter that are limited in the North (a situation that Sansa is shown in the same episode trying to tackle and deal with) which a sympathetic and united Southern Kingdom could ameliorate. Both Dany and Tyrion Lannister, who as Queen of Meereen and Hand of the King during The Siege of King's Landing (mentioned in the same episode) dealt with food crises and could have used it to insist that it's in Jon's interest to support them (even if they don't believe the Long Night is coming, winter is already here and in either case, Jon does need alliances in the South). Instead, Dany goes by Appeal to Tradition and Binding Ancient Treaty which can only be hypocritical for a woman who has trampled down so many traditions (and is branded a revolutionary by Cersei in the same episode), an argument that Tyrion, guilty of Patricide no less, also wholeheartedly supports. Furthermore, at the end of Season 6 Dany was willing to consider a request for independence by Yara Greyjoy provided they appeal personally to her, and though Jon doesn't quite ask for that in so many words, Dany still comes off as a lot more intractable than she's previously been depicted.
- Dany and Tyrion should know that Jon can't simply bend the knee without getting the support of the Lords of the North and the Vale who proclaimed him King first. Those lords made first Robb and then Jon king because they wanted an independent North, and would have to be talked into accepting Targaryen rule once again. If they're not behind him, then he has no Kingdom of the North to offer Dany. This is admittedly more an error on Jon's part, since by arriving in person, he put himself in a position of weakness and undermined his own authority, and likewise he doesn't fully convey to Dany the full predicament of his situation (such as acknowledging the Vale's role), being a very poor communicator (which again raises the question of why he went in person rather than send an effective diplomat and intermediary as Sansa insisted he do). Correctly used, written neutrally (if a Wall of Text.)
YMMV.Idiocracy: Justified by the very premise of the movie. Only the two characters from the past are of even average intelligence. Even then, Joe is naive and not a natural leader. Correct use, neutrally written.
YMMV.Arthur S 11 E 8 Francines Pilfered Paper Buster Gets Real (1): Both episodes fit into this category:
- "Francine's Pilfered Paper" is about Francine, typically one of the smartest children in the show, not thinking there's anything remotely wrong about plagiarizing a whole paper. Granted, she is an 8 year old child, and she does eventually figure it out, but the fault is also on Mr. Ratburn, who didn't teach them about the subject matter beforehand, and mistook the plagiarized paper, which she copied from a semi-professional website and therefore most likely written by a professional adult, as her own work. Written relatively neutrally.
Webcomic.Planet Of Hats: Invoked with everyone ignoring or overlooking obvious ways to help Sulu not freeze to death in "The Enemy Within". Correct, invoked.
YMMV.Battle For Wesnoth: In Heir To The Throne, after Konrad defeats Li'sar the first time, he not only lets her go, he even asks her for directions. Of course, she leads him directly into an undead-polluted area. Close enough.
YMMV.Delocated: Played for Laughs and lampshaded to hell and back. The whole point of the show is that Jon is effectively rendering his witness protection completely pointless with his behavior. Seems to be a legit example acknowledged In-Universe.
YMMV.Girlfriend Girlfriend: Done completely intentionally. Our protagonist, Naoya Mukai, is already in a happy relationship with his Childhood Friend, Saki Saki, and he couldn't want for more. One day however, he's confessed to by Nagisa Minase, a cute and attractive Nice Girl with great cooking skills, and instead of turning her down gently and continuing on with his life, he rationalizes that since he fell in love with both Saki and Nagisa, he figured two-timing would keep both of them happy, with Saki's permission of course. Instead of losing interest and dumping him, both girls actually decide to go along with it; Nagisa because she figures she won't get another chance with him otherwise, and Saki due to peer pressure from the other two and because she may or may not be attracted to Nagisa as well. And then you got two other girls, both knowing about the two-timing, falling for him as well, with one of them being the Only Sane Woman. Intentional, non-complain-y example.
YMMV.Mega Man Recut: It's lampshaded repeatedly that the conflict in "The Mega Man in the Moon" could be solved in seconds if the president and Senator Wolfe just got over themselves, stopped causing problems with the UN, and let Duo deal with Wily. It's actually enforced; the Syndicate wants the R.I.P to stay out of America and are manipulating things to keep them away. Since it's lampshaded and enforced, the tone makes sense here. Correct.
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 8 E 21 A Rockhoof And A Hard Place: The plot keeps moving because Rockhoof gives up at every new venture at the first setback, instead of trying harder or learning from his mistakes. The Mane Six in turn suggest jobs for him that are at odds with his personality and skillset and don't put much thought into their ideas. There are plenty of career opportunities in Equestria for someone with great physical strength and a passion for digging, several of which should have been very obvious, but no one suggests them. Additionally, the plot begins in the first place because Rockhoof isn't welcome at his old village, which is now an archeological dig site — Professor Fossil just sees Rockhoof as a nuisance and doesn't seem to realize that the pony who actually lived in the ancient village she's excavating may have a lot of helpful information to contribute, chalking it up to the fact that they need the full context for archeological digs. Eh, written neutrally enough.
YMMV.The Walking Dead Season Two: A touch of this for Season 2 Episode 1. The premise of the cabin group mistaking Clem's wound for a walker bite relies upon a trained doctor who can't tell the difference between bite marks left by a dog and bite marks left by a (deceased) human. The doctor in question then decides the best way to be certain whether she was bitten by a walker is to leave her possibly infected wound completely untreated and lock her in a cold shed until the morning, very likely killing her regardless. He is apparently oblivious as to the Catch 22 nature of his solution. After Clem's desperate attempts to patch up her own wound, the doctor proclaims later that night that he can tell by her lack of fever that she wasn't bitten by a walker, implying the entire wait until morning was completely pointless. Written neutrally enough.

Complaining (30/54)

YMMV.Battlefield 3: Let's be honest, the entire climax is set up solely due to everyone above Blackburn in the chain of command being inhumanly stupid. The sequel seems to indicate that even in death and in the face of overwhelming evidence, the CIA still takes every thing Solomon said at face value without a second thought. Written in a snarky way.
YMMV.Chronicles Of Blood And Stone: In the first book, virtually the entire plot could've been avoided if the wizards weren't complete morons and held the coronation in a more secure or secret location... which the king actually suggests they do. And the wizards did know what would happen, since it was prophesied about thirty years ago, so they really have no excuse. Written in a whiny way.
YMMV.El Hazard The Magnificent World: A lot in El Hazard 2: The Magnificent World. There are so many moments, you'd swear the cast was playing professional volleyball with the Idiot Ball. A few examples: The group believing Katsuhiko's obvious lies despite Nanami's warnings (keep in mind that Nanami is his sister, and would know him better than everyone else), Makoto still trying to negotiate with the Obviously Evil Kalia despite her trying to kill him mere seconds ago, the Muldoon Priestesses combining their attacks into one projectile against a character who reflects projectiles, and so on. Written in a snarky way.
YMMV.Heart Of Evil: Barney's reveal of the secret mission early was anything but a bright idea. But eh, what don´t you do for friendship? Snark.
YMMV.Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs 2017: Sequelitis: Or Prequelitis in this case. The show got a lot of negative reactions from fans, mainly due to its cheap, uninspired humor, many of the characters undergoing Flanderization and/or becoming outright unlikable, most of episodes' plot tending to come off as unoriginal or dumb, the unappealing character designs, and, above all, the lack of concern for continuity with the two movies despite, in theory, being a prequel series. The show does still have fans who can forgive said flaws, though; online reviewer Mr. Coat, for instance, praised the series for its animation and voice acting while also arguing that it managed to successfully capture the zany spirit of the films. Used in a pothole to complain.
YMMV.Arthur S 11 E 8 Francines Pilfered Paper Buster Gets Real (2): "Buster Gets Real" deals with Buster suddenly giving up on Bionic Bunny, and moving on to Reality Shows, due to the poor explanation on how the former isn't "real," despite the fact that he hasn't showed the same dismissive tone to that show beforehand, created for the sake of conflict for this episode. Complain-y tone.
YMMV.Birdemic: Swarms of eagles are attacking people everywhere, yet the main characters drive out to the country, repeatedly getting out of the car for impromptu picnics. Any time anyone is inside a car, they leave the windows rolled down. The entire movie could have been resolved by staying indoors.
- During a massive bird attack, the first thing you want to do is have a nice picnic on the beach. Hey, they're extremely lucky that birds hate picnics and beaches.
- The trapped people in a bus don't bother to hide when two fellows with automatic rifles start firing wildly trying to shoot birds. Rather, they keep their heads exposed screaming and pounding on bus windows. These same people then leave the safety of the bus and STAND STILL in the open waiting to be attacked, although Ramsey sort of forced them out of the bus, and had no real plan on what to do next.
- At one point, a man tries to steal gas from Rod and the other survivors at gunpoint. After getting the gas, the man is killed by a bird. Rod drives off, and leaves the gas can, as well as the abandoned weapon on the side of the road.
  - And the guy "stealing" the gas from Rod and the others gave them money for the gas at gunpoint. He basically forced them to sell him the gas.
  - Better yet, after he gets the gas, the man backs away from his car!
- The birds are reportedly making particular targets of cars on the highway. So of course, loads of people are driving down the highway with the windows rolled down.
  - And people whom Rod and Nathalie found dead in the car also had their car window rolled down.
- Special mention goes to Becky's decision to go number two in the middle of an open field, when she could have just used the bathroom at the picnic area like Nathalie did. Sure enough, it gets her killed. Loads of poorly-indented natter and snark.
YMMV.Asura Cryin: Tomoharu and Kanade are very ineffectual protagonists. It takes them until the final arc to actually form a contract and gain the power that could have resolved everything much earlier and [[spoiler:without the death of most of the burial dolls] **Perhaps if those at least partially in the know actually told the protagonist what they knew, it might have saved some heartache. Complains about the main characters.
YMMV.Fright Night 1985: Charley tells everyone that Jerry is a vampire. Including the vampire's henchman. He is then surprised when it appears nobody believes him, and further surprised when said vampire tries to kill him. Vampire Jerry, for his part, is stupid enough to get stabbed through the hand by a sharpened No. 2 pencil. Written in a complain-y way.
YMMV.Gumby: Most of the movie runs on this. Lowbelly has the ability to cry pearls, an ability that is neither explained nor is it noticed by Gumby, Lowbelly's owner, until the events of the film. What causes Lowbelly to cry? Gumby's constant morphing. Anyone familiar with Gumby is fully aware of his ability to do this, and somehow Lowbelly believes his owner has left him every time he physically changes appearance. Why is Lowbelly so distressed by what for any clay figure is otherwise a completely normal thing? The RiffTrax Alternate DVD Commentary jokes about how the characters' ability to pass into books, etc. means they shouldn't have to worry about unlocking doors. Complains about the movie, complete with a needless reviewer reference at the end.
YMMV.Maze Runner The Scorch Trials: The movie has Thomas essentially rounding his friends out into the wilderness with no plan, no provisions and no knowledge of the area. He's a kid yes, but he doesn't seem to think at all. Commented-out complain-y ZCE.
YMMV.Shiny Days: Occasionally, the story depends on people being completely stupid.
- Like Makoto asking to see Kiyoura, saying Youko's name and then being completely unable to convince anyone that he really did mean the girl that isn't old enough to be his mother. And not only does Youko go along with this, she actually jumps him immediately just about as soon as he enters and fails to see Setsuna.
- Later, Makoto says he won't be able to talk for a moment but if Setsuna has something to say he'll listen. He then leaves without telling her, so when she confesses she thinks he silently rejected her. The sheer stupidity surrounding the rest of the events here are almost as bad. Complain-y tone and language, plus indentation errors.
YMMV.Command And Conquer 3 Tiberium Wars: The plot of the entire game hinges on a complacent and downscaled GDI putting the Achilles' Heel of its entire Kill Sat network on Earth (where it isn't protected by said network), in a small, poorly defended base. The GDI campaign reveals this was a decision born of cost according to GDI bookkeepers.
- Taken up to eleven in Kane's Wrath, where it's revealed that before the attack on the A-SAT control, Nod launched an attack on Johannesburg to steal the Ion Cannon network blueprints in order to find a weakness (Sounds familiar?). Yet GDI apparently didn't even bother increasing security at Goddard Space Center after this.
- Fridge Brilliance comes to play as the treasury department is headed by Director Boyle, who would have slashed defense fundings out of self-interest rather than common sense. Generally complain-y.
GoneHorriblyRight.Live Action Films: The Lodge has a case of this trope so big that detractors of the film call it an Idiot Plot. All the strange occurrences around the lodge are the result of Aidan and Mia deciding to gaslight Grace into a psychotic breakdown as revenge for her marrying their dad after their mom committed suicide. They are then absolutely shocked when the survivor of a fundamentalist suicide cult forcibly off her medication and convinced she's dead and stuck in purgatory proceeds to kill them all. Used as part of complaining.
WhatAnIdiot.Dexters Laboratory: Another factor of this whole Idiot Plot is the fact that throughout the episode until the end, Santa has the aforementioned problem with speaking in "Ho ho ho"'s.
You'd expect: At some point, Santa should've explained to Dexter IN PLAIN SIMPLE ENGLISH that he's the real Santa Claus and not Dexter's dad in disguise.
Instead: He never does this until the end.
The Result: Not only does the episode end like that, but THEN we find out he's capable of speaking English when he said that christmas was about "Presents". What the heck?! Used to complain in a What An Idiot entry.
YMMV.Baby Driver:
- Let's face it: with the mistakes he made, it's no wonder why Doc decided to kill JD.
- Also, Darling - unlike Buddy, she didn't bother to take cover when getting into a shoot-out with the cops and just started firing at them. The fact she got gunned down in seconds is more due to her own stupidity than Baby crashing into the getaway car.
- No matter how pleasant the voices of Doc and his coworkers are, Baby recording their conversations for his mixtapes is incredibly stupid. Even if the crew didn't catch him, the police would have been able to implicate him in their crimes if they got a hold of the tapes.
- It would have been a good idea for Doc to mention to Bats, Darling, Buddy & Baby that the contacts they were going to get their weapons from were corrupt Atlanta police. And avoided, you know, murdering a half-dozen police and setting the scene for the failure of their heist the next day. Or since this movie is set in America, just buying guns legally.
- Doc's supposed to be The Chessmaster when it comes to meticulous planning of his heists but it's clear Bats is too unstable and Doc should've known better to recruit him in the first place. It makes absolutely no sense that Doc would not kill Bats after he robbed the gas station and caused a shootout that killed Doc's police contacts. Continuing with the Post Office robbery after the shootout is also well out of character for Doc. All subbullets used to complain.
YMMV.Baby Geniuses: The entire movie happens because the villains are completely incompetent. Sly escapes by using electronic toys (that BabyCo leaves in his room for him to play with) to build a device that can jam security cameras, and no one finds the loss of the cameras suspicious despite the fact Sly has tried to escape several times before. The film also repeatedly shows that BabyCo's employees are unable to outsmart babies, even if they are supposed to be geniuses, and the babies are even able to defeat numerous adults in hand-to-hand combat. Complaining.
YMMV.Dark Reign: Seen by many. The very idea of taking a known and convicted supervillainous psychopathic lunatic whose alternate persona was a crazed Mad Bomber and putting him in charge of National Security (with dictatorial powers and backed up by a team of other supervillainous psychopathic lunatics, no less)... for many fans, that was just stretching it, even for a franchise like this one. Didn't help at all that Civil War (where Osborn was first given national security powers, albeit subordinate to Iron Man and others) took place only a couple of story arcs after Osborn had been exposed as such; had this story occurred only three or four years earlier, it would have made a lot more sense, as although most heroes already knew who and what Osborn was, the public did not. As it is, people cheered for a man who had, amongst other things, attempted to exterminate all life on Earth in a fit of worse-than-usual madness, deliberately caused a bus to crash into a school in order to frame (and in the event, cripple) the driver, and had, before one of his final pre-Dark Reign captures, been mentioned offhand as taking a entire church hostage and tying bombs to a young girl to draw Spider-Man into a fight. Villain with Good Publicity and Too Dumb to Live at its' finest right here. Written in a snarky way.
YMMV.Eddsworld: In WTFuture, Coke is outlawed in the future. Edd has a time machine. He decides to go back in time to commit suicide by killing his past self, instead of, y'know, going to any shop in the present and getting the drink. No one calls him out on that. Or, if he's so determined to commit time-travel murder, how about killing the people responsible for banning Coke in the first place and preventing the horrible, Coke-free future? Written in a snarky way.
YMMV.Game Of Thrones S 8 E 5 The Bells: Varys's plan to assassinate Daenerys at this juncture makes no sense. Cersei hasn't been defeated or King's Landing taken yet, and the major part of Daenerys's forces are loyal to her personally, not because of her bloodline, and will not follow Jon as the next person in line for the Iron Throne unless they (and he) can be convinced that she was not killed by Varys and to take up the fight against Cersei in her name, which they would have be very gullible to fall for. There is a very high risk of unleashing two uncontrolled armies and one uncontrolled dragon on the Seven Kingdoms to pillage and burn. Varys has had no assurance of a place for himself in Jon's court or that Jon would accept the throne even if the lords of Westeros rallied for him. The northern lords would support Jon, but the southern ones have no reason to believe Varys's letters about his identity and would be likely to see it as a Northern power grab. And if Jon learned that Varys was responsible for Daenerys's death, he would execute him. In short, this is an unrealistic plan for a character who is supposed to be both clever and a master of self-preservation, and is contrived so that Daenerys can slide further down the slippery slope due to Varys's betrayal. Complaining.
YMMV.ROTOR: The plot is only as long as it is because everyone is acting like a moron. R.O.T.O.R. is incredibly incompetent at its job and only manages to kill three people^note, Coldyron fails multiple times to capture R.O.T.O.R., and multiple unnamed characters are ultimately Too Dumb to Live by trying to ineffectively attack R.O.T.O.R. And this isn't going into the number of characters that started the whole situation in the first place like Shoeboogie and Bugler. Complains about the plot.
YMMV.Shortland Street: A lot of dumb plots took place during that same time period to try and bring some "light-heartedness" which often backfired. One episode in 2012 had a point of view cat-and-mouse chase featuring Luke Durville's cat trying to catch a mouse within the hospital. It was as ridiculous as it sounds. Complaining.
YMMV.The Possession: Em attacks multiple people (including her own parents), begins acting like an animal, and is followed by hordes of moths, yet those around her spend more than half the film merely asking if she is okay and accepting her weird answers. Written in a complain-y way.
YMMV.True Blood: The first half of season 7 centers around finding a bunch of people who were kidnapped by vampires, who are hiding out in the first place anyone with a pair of functioning brain cells would look for them. Snark.
YMMV.World War Z: Given that Dr. Fassbach is a highly regarded virologist and one of the people the military are looking to in order to figure out the cause of the outbreak, you have to question the sanity of whoever decided to send him into the field with zero combat training, rather than let other (more expendable) personnel gather evidence and samples for him. Naturally, only a few minutes into the mission, he panics at the sight of the zombies, slips on the ramp as he attempts to retreat and blows his own brains out when his gun accidentally discharges. And who was the genius who decided to give the guy with zero combat training a gun? True, he likely wanted a means to defend himself, but if you don't know how to use a gun properly, including safety handling, you're simply a danger to yourself (as Fassbach obviously proves) and everyone around you. Complaining.
YMMV.Yoshis Woolly World: Kamek somehow forgets to just Baleful Polymorph the 2 remaining Yoshis as well, thus allowing the adventure to even begin. Written in a snarky way.
YMMV.To Die For: The second half of the movie might as well be called The Dumbass Conspiracy. Jimmy doesn't even clean Larry's brains off of his shoes, which gets him life plus thirty years. Russel gets sixteen years for leaving clamshells from his fishing job all over the Maretto house. Though it's likely justified since they're in a panic and they’re impulsive teenagers and not very bright ones at that. And of course Suzanne blabs in a public mall about orchestrating Larry's death. Complaining, at least in the beginning.
YMMV.The Quarry: Basically, the events of the entire game were set in motion due to a series of events where characters made blatantly stupid or reckless decisions. Complaining.
YMMV.The Comedy Of Errors:
- Let's start with why a couple thought it would be a good idea to give each of their identical twin sons the same name, do the same with the likewise identical pair of slave boys they just bought, and carry on from there.
- Even more frustrating is the fact that even though Antipholus of Syracuse not only knows he has a long-lost identical twin brother but has been actively looking for him for five years, he can't figure out why everyone in Ephesus seems to know who he is! Complaining.
YMMV.Splice: Had Elsa and Clive acted with the bare minimum of proper adherence to ethics in genetic experimentation, there wouldn't have been a film. Complain-y tone.

Misuse (4/54)

YMMV.Are You Afraid Of The Dark: In "The Tale of the Renegade Virus", right before Poe is about to turn on the virtual reality machine the computer warns him there is a virus, complete with a skull and alarm noises. Despite this, he just says "there's no need for that" and turns it on anyway. Plot does not require all characters to behave like idiots, just complaining about a character being stupid. Misuse.
YMMV.Doctor Who S 33 E 1 Asylum Of The Daleks: Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Amy, for throwing Rory out without even telling him why, then acting as though her giving him up (which, as the end of the episode shows, wasn't even necessary) is more noble than his guarding her Only Mostly Dead body for 2,000 years. The whole thing left many fans crying foul and some critics scratching their heads over what came off as an Idiot Plot because of it. There was also a sketch from The Pop Arena where Rory incredulously asks if Amy seriously thought his lifelong love for her, and spending millennia guarding her, was just because he wanted a baby-making machine. Misused pothole—doesn't mention all main characters being idiots, just one.
Series.Last Week Tonight With John Oliver: invoked John portrays Trump's Russia scandal as this, referring to it as "Stupid Watergate", as it has "all the intrigue of Watergate, except everyone involved is really bad at everything." (In another episode, everyone involved "is too stupid to even feel ashamed".) He dubbed Trump's scandal with Ukraine "Stupid Watergate 2". While this is an invoked example, Oliver (AFAIK) does not officially portray the Real Life events as a work. An Idiot Plot is of a work, not Real Life. Thus, it is misuse.
YMMV.Inglourious Basterds: Stiglitz shooting Hellstrom in the balls instead of somewhere more immediately lethal. If he did that, the Basterds would have had two extra gunmen during the shootout (Hicox and Bridget) and likely come out on top. Not a plot per se. Misuse.

ZCEs, unclear/unsure, and other (9/54)

Recap.The Nostalgia Critic S 2 E 37: Adults Are Useless: This is apparently a big component of "Bland Shit 101" in fact the plot needs this in order to work. Poorly-explained pothole, unclear.
YMMV.Deserving: Idiot Plot Commented-out trope name only ZCE.
YMMV.A Sad Story Idiot Plot A commented-out Trope-name only ZCE.
YMMV.Carnosaur: Carnosaur 3. Full stop. Commented-out ZCE.
YMMV.Drive In Massacre: Idiot Plot Commented-out trope name only ZCE.
YMMV.Jedi Academy Trilogy: Lampshaded mercilessly (along with everything else) in I, Jedi. Commented-out ZCE.
YMMV.Conan Hyborian Age: Entering the Hyborian Mound requires to blindly jump into a pitch dark pit without any obvious exit.^note Unsure about the tone—it seems complain-y, but not enough to list it? I don't know.
YMMV.Chernobyl Diaries: Idiot Plot
"Chernobyl Diaries: It should have been called Six Dumbasses In Search of a Clue"
— Slate.com headline Complaining quote ZCE.
YMMV.The Adventures Of Super Mario Bros 3: "Reptiles in the Rose Garden", "The Beauty of Kootie", "Never Koop a Koopa", "Reign Storm", "Tag Team Trouble", "Oh, Brother!", and "Mush-Rumors". No context.

Unclassifiable (1/54)

AtopTheFourthWall.Tropes E To P: Idiot Plot invoked Listed as a Pet-Peeve Trope.

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artman40 Since: Jan, 2001

#46: Oct 21st 2022 at 9:44:29 AM

So what would be a better name of a trope where character have to act like idiots for the plot to happen?

WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love

Bonnie's Artistic Cousin

#47: Oct 21st 2022 at 10:44:22 AM

Idiot Plot is still that trope, we just can't list examples anymore.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016

Just stoic wisdom.

#48: Nov 26th 2022 at 10:36:30 AM

<600. Though I may have mistakenly dewicked some stuff. Probably not going to participate in this one further. Whoops.

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Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015

#49: Nov 26th 2022 at 5:36:57 PM

What to do with these in-universe IP examples?

Monthly Girls' Nozaki-kun: Some of Nozaki's storylines have rather ridiculous plots, like when he tries to create a horror story. He gets called out on it by his editor, though.
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: John portrays Trump's Russia scandal as this, referring to it as "Stupid Watergate", as it has "all the intrigue of Watergate, except everyone involved is really bad at everything." (In another episode, everyone involved "is too stupid to even feel ashamed".) He dubbed Trump's scandal with Ukraine "Stupid Watergate 2".

Former may be valid in-universe as it's about a Show Within a Show, but it doesn't sound like the problem is the characters acting idiotic. Latter sounds like misuse as RL as opposed to a plot (fictional narrative) and possible ROCEJ. Thoughts?

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