During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Also, I forgot, yes to Omar and Seto.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Once he has enough votes, you post a write-up there. Then, if it looks good, you post the write-up in the drafts.
@ Lalalei you’re good to go:
Here's my writeup! I tried to condense it to highlights while also stating his goals. Help trimming it is appreciated!
Magnificent Bastard: C. Seto Rosenkreuz is the leader of the Yorkist army, and his tactics are the primary reason for their military success at the beginning of the game. His goals are to combine his side's White Rose Cards with the opposing Lancastrians' Red Rose cards, summoning a Physical God to renew a pact that will ensure his rule over the world forever. When the Lancastrians summon the Rose Duelist to aid the war effort, Seto offers a well-thought-out argument for the Rose Duelist joining his team instead. Should they accept, he leads them in dismantling the Lancastrian army, and should they refuse, he's unworried and works it into his plans. The climax of Yugi's campaign has him successfully summon Manawyddan fab Llyr regardless of the player's victory in a duel with him; in Seto's campaign he quickly realizes the spirit isn't the one he's looking for and gives instructions on how to send it back. Afterwards Seto escapes and vows to continue looking for the true Card Guardian, additionally honoring his promise to the Rose Duelist to send them home and giving them a pendant as thanks for their service. Regardless of which side the player chooses, Seto's goals are realized, and he stands out as the most charismatic, intelligent character in the game.
EDIT: Added a further-condensed entry to the drafts page. ^^
Edited by lalalei2001 on Jul 5th 2019 at 1:19:42 AM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
My writeup! (Honestly thought season 5 would generated more discussion)
Magnificent Bastard: Omar a "stick-up man" in Baltimore who robs drug dealers for a living. His first episode has him robbing one of Avon Barksdales' Stash house's. Avon puts out a hit on him and his crew, and manages to succeed in killing Bailey and torturing to death Omar's boyfriend. Over the course of the next three seasons Omar retaliates buy killing some of those responsible and sending others to prison by testifying. In the meanwhile he uses his charm and cunning to rob stash houses. This culminates in him killing Stringer Bell, Avon's right-hand man. Because of this and other factors the Barksdale organization collapses soon after. In season 4 Proposition Joe sends Omar to rob an underground poker game which a new drug kingpin named Marlo is attending so he can get Marlo to join a criminal cooperative. Marlo wanting revenge frames Omar for murder. Omar beats the charge, and then blackmails Joe into giving up Marlo's new drug shipment. However, Omar double-crosses Joe and then steals the entire cooperative drug shipment instead of Marlo's. Omar then sells it back to Joe and announces his retirement. In season 5, Marlo who still wants revenge, has Omar's mentor tortured and killed. Omar returns to Baltimore, but he is briefly outgunned. He then goes on a warpath burning Marlo's drugs and money and calling Marlo out to face him. While he dies before this can come to fruition, the taunts prove to be very effective, as by the end of the series Marlo has faded into obscurity whereas Omar has become a legend.
I feel like this could use some trimming. Also who is doing Far From Home?
Edited by jjjj2 on Jul 5th 2019 at 12:19:23 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
I can help you with trimming and I think Ravok and Polar split it such that Ravok has it for CM, Polar for MB.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
So... Here's a potential candidate...
What's the work?
Quote from it's article : "Echoes, by Kagaseo is a Naruto fanfiction where a modification of the seal holding back the Kyuubi has surprising consequences. It's also something of a crossover with Yet again with a little extra help by Third Fang.
The story begins with a slightly different version of the canon Naruto's fight with Orochimaru in the Land of Grass. However, Sai betrays the group early, leading Naruto, renamed "Kazama" to avoid confusion, into a battle with Orochimaru, during which his seal is twisted. This alters the mechanics of the seal, giving Kazama the ability to travel into other worlds, meeting alternate versions of himself, his friends, families, or even enemies. Most prominently featured are Naruko, a female Naruto, Chibaku, one that was trained by Sasori, and Kitsune, one that had some issues with his Kyuubi."
Which leads us to the aforementioned Chibaku's teacher, Sasori, the Token Evil Teammate of the team (later named the Arashi clan).
Who is Sasori? What has he done?
Sasori's backstory and abilities are quite similar to canon (and on top of that, he's a seal master), except that, after leaving Suna, he never joined Akatsuki, instead stumbling upon a starving Chibaku. While still wishing to be immortal, Sasori, just in case he actually kicks the bucket, chose to teach someone everything he knows so that he could leave a legacy behind and thus achieve some form of immortality. Thus Chibaku became his student.
One day later, his parents were murdered by the White Fang, Sakumo Hatake.
His grandma, Chiyo, took him under her wing, teaching him puppetry. At first Sasori only saw the art as a way to gain the power necessary to one day kill his parents' murderer, but the man's suicide deprived him of that pleasure. He had still celebrated the news with his grandmother and about the whole village, getting drunk for the first and only time in his life. It wasn't an experience he particularly liked, having done some... disgusting stuff, while under the alcohol's influence... or so he was told the next morning.
Before he reached fifteen Sasori had become an expert at puppetry, creating multiple designs that allowed the rise of a whole caste of puppet-users. The original puppeteers, the successors of his idol, the great Monzaemon Chikamatsu, were only using individual original and complex puppets that, while powerful, needed special treatments to stay utilizable. Sasori became a legend when he created basic designs of dummies that could later be customized while being repaired easily. Basically, he made puppetry accessible and affordable to everyone, allowing the rise of new talents that would have stayed ignored otherwise.
… But his glory and fame turned when the Sandaime Kazekage decided to label human puppetry, the new step in his art, as a kinjutsu.
For Sasori, puppetry was to be done for puppetry's sake. It was an art, something that shouldn't be limited to human morals. So when Sasori had discovered a way to turn living people into living puppets, giving them a form of immortality and making them living masterpieces, he immediately came to see his leader and almost begged him to give him the funds necessary to develop the idea. If he had accepted, Sasori would have basically given death the middle finger, preventing the Shinigami from taking anyone ever again, and created a monument to eternity.
Instead, the leader of the village confiscated Sasori's schematics, put him under supervision, forbade him to teach, and privately labeled him clinically insane. Unofficially, of course. For Sunagakure, the great puppeteer had simply retired for a while so he could work on another brilliant project.
It was then that he understood that he had nothing to gain anymore by staying in the village. Evolving puppetry to a next level was a holy quest for the puppeteer, one that his former superiors had tried to hinder in their foolishness. They had betrayed him… so it was only justice he betrayed them in turn. After massacring the ANBU sent to watch him, he reclaimed what the Sandaime had stolen and left the village, leaving only a slashed forehead protector and a letter to Chiyo behind him.
Soon after that, he ambushed the Sandaime while the man was training alone in the desert, challenging him to a duel for revenge and to prove once and for all puppetry's superiority over bloodline limits. In his pride and arrogance, the man accepted believing his iron sand to be invincible. He hadn't memorized the lessons taught in the Academy... that so many people wielding 'invincible' or 'unbeatable' bloodlines and techniques died in battle against opponents that were considered harmless. True most puppeteers were at a disadvantage against the iron sand wielder as he could use the dust to jam up puppets and simply perform larger scale ninjutu than what most puppeteers could possibly dream of… but there was no such a thing as the impossible, and Sasori proved it this day by assassinating the Kazekage with his latest invention.
Nerve gas.
As the previously "unbeatable" Sandaime Kazekage agonized before him, Sasori took off his cape, revealing his new mechanical body. His gas couldn't affect someone without a brain, making him immune to his own weapons and poisons. Only his heart was still made of flesh. It was unfortunately necessary. People's memories and identity weren't contained within the neurons, contrary to the popular belief, but within their chakra, the link between the soul and the body. The brain was simply the organ that commanded the others… and a puppet body had none. It only needed some seals to work.
Taking the Kazekage's body to create another masterpiece, Sasori retired from society, gathering the funds needed for his studies by creating a private spy network and selling information to the highest bidder. The irony was that his own old village became one of his recurring clients… during the war he unwillingly helped in starting when Sunagakure began to accuse all the nearby nations of having kidnapped or assassinated their leader.
At least the war gave him large supplies of bodies to work on and the funds to do so for a while.
It was during his travels after the war that he found Naruto, sleeping on a road in the Land of Fire. It was mostly curiosity that pushed him to examine the boy instead of simply ignoring him… an action that made him realize that he had just found a Jinchuuriki, far away from any village. Intrigued, Sasori questioned the boy when he woke up, and after hearing how he had escaped from Konoha, the puppeteer jumped on the opportunity. Recruiting a willing Jinchuuriki was not something that happened every day, and it would allow Sasori to study the boy's seal.
Not once did he regret his decision.
Naruto proved himself to be a very loyal and gifted person with multiple flourishing talents that only needed to be polished. Months of travel with him awakened something in Sasori. The boy had a spark in his eyes, one that the puppeteer knew too well. The thirst for knowledge, the desire to create new things, the will to explore the unexplored. The same spark that animated Sasori himself, and that had animated Kabuto, while he was alive.
It was this spark that convinced Sasori to teach the blonde puppetry. Unlike Kabuto, who preferred medicine over mechanics, Naruto showed a deep interest in the art, and a great talent in it as well. Perhaps one day, he would be able to surpass Sasori himself, and complete his work. The great puppet master wasn't as arrogant as the Sandaime Kazekage, and knew that someone or something could one day kill him. Naruto was his contingency plan… his legacy.
Sasori, while looking for wood to create more puppets, stumbled upon the unconscious Kazama and Naruko, both of whom appeared in Chibaku's world after narrowly escaping death. Noticing their obvious similarities to Naruto, he brought them home and had his Dragon Kabuto Yakushi perform a blood test on them : turns out that they have Chibaku's DNA. When Kazama woke up, he mistaken Kabuto for his world's Kabuto, and attacked him. Sasori immediately stopped him by threatening to kill Naruko... Before asking him to tell him what happened around some tea. After hearing about Kazama's modified seal and what happened to them, he studies Kazama's seal and concluded that it could activate in cases of extreme danger, and that he would eventually be able to activate it at will by imagining a place. Sasori, wanting to meet his alternate selves, decides to join Kazama and Naruko, with Chibaku and Kabuto following. Before leaving, Sasori creates fake identities of the team, so that their similarities to their alternate selves won't be noticed. Learning of Kabuto's treachery in Kazama's world, Sasori placed on him a secret explosive seal, just in case.
When the group arrived in Kitsune's world, they ended up not far from Konoha. Entering Konoha with their fake identities, they learned about a murder spree that resulted in 21 kids and the entire Hyuuga clan's gruesome deaths. Sasori, on the meanwhile, learned almost everything about what's going on there thanks to a brainwashed Homura (one of the Hokage's advisors ; Sasori had already brainwashed him in his original world and just thought that Kitsune's world!Sasori used the same technique... Which he did). The Gatherer (Naruko's Kyuubi) finds out who is the killer : Kitsune, a Naruto who's constantly mind-raped by the Demon (Kitsune's Kyuubi) into committing these crimes. Expectedly, the adults, who lost several of their children, aren't sympathetic and most if not all of Konoha wants Kitsune dead. When the group discover that Kitsune is set to be executed, Sasori has an idea : First, he easily blackmails the Hokage into negotiating with the group (if he refuses and capture them, Sasori's agents will reveal everything about Konoha to others villages, essentially starting another Ninja War), and then gives a deal to the Hokage : he fakes Kitsune's death and lets him leave with the group. In exchange, Sasori gives him the Sanbi's location so that he can have another Biju instead of the Kyuubi. The Hokage agrees and the group leaves. When asked by Kazama why he just blackmailed three Hokage, here's Sasori's answer: "I wanted you to confront the Hokage. Not the old man, not the kind grandfather, not the enemy… the Hokage. I showed you the ruthless ninja ready to do everything for his village, the man you had never encountered. I wanted you to see what it was to be him." When trying to pack their things, they were attacked by the Madara trio (Tsukiyomi, Kazama's world's Madara, Amaterasu, Kitsune's world's Madara and Susanoo, Chibaku's world's Madara. Their objective is to harness Kazama's power), who had killed Kabuto and were using him as a corpse for a trap. Sasori activates the seal, thus rendering Kabuto unusable. Sasori then engaged Tsukiyomi and showed his ability to adapt : first, he analysed his surroundings. Second, when using his Third Kazekage puppet, he had it create a metal shield to protect him from Tsukiyomi's Blaze Release attack (essentially unstoppable fire). Nothing impressive so far. What is actually is, is what happens next : when his shield starts melting, he turned some of the melting metal sand into pikes and sent them flying at Tsukiyomi. When the latter no-sold them with his intangibillity technique (Kamui), Sasori aimed for his feet (if Tsukiyomi used Kamui on his feet, he would disappear within the earth, meaning he left at least part of his feet solid), forcing Tsukiyomi to use Kamui in order to sent the projectiles to another dimension, which ultimately revealed even more of his abilities to Sasori. Sasori then attempts to outlast Tsukiyomi before reuniting with the rest of the group (after being separated from them during the fight). Sasori learns that Chibaku's puppets were all destroyed when fighting Amaterasu. Concluding that they can't currently win, Sasori asks Kazama to go to another world, which he successfully does. They end up landing in the Wave-Verse. Here, Sasori is mostly Out of Focus, but still stands out when he gave Kazama Uzumaki scrolls in order for him to train with these to later uses them against the Madara trio (in exchange, Kazama teaches him the Rasengan and the Shadow Clone Technique). He also suggest that the entire team trains for the next battle. Much like canon, they land in the Land of the Waves, that is threatened by Gato and his mooks. When Zabuza and Kisame are sent to assassinate Tazuma (who, like canon, is constructing a bridge that could ultimately threaten Gato's operations) who is protected by Wave-Verse!Team 7 (composed of Wave-Verse!Kakashi, a prodigy Naruto, a Naru Saku shipping Sasuke, and Sakura as the Kyuubi's Jinchuriki instead of Naruto... And Sakura has a crush on Naruto) the group intervenes (except Sasori and Chibaku, who are hidden, ready to attack if necessary), easily trumps Zabuza and Kisame (the latter wasn't supposed to appear). When they flees, Sasori reveals to Chibaku that he deliberately let them flee in order to sway them to their side later. Oh, and if they refuse? Sasori placed a seal on the unconscious Kisame (since he didn't expect his presence) in case it happens. When training with Kazama, Sasori curb-stomped him and revealed that his fighting style was intentionally flawed, further establishing Kazama's World!Jiraya as a Broken Pedestal for Kazama. He also deconstructs the Calling Your Attacks trope, saying it's stupid, since the enemy will know what you're going to do... He then exploits the trope, saying that you can lie, however.
The Arashi clan ends up facing both the Madara trio and Zabuza. When facing Susanoo, he has a plan. The objective? Weaken Susanoo? How? By unbalancing his chakra. Since Susanoo is a master of the Yin and Yang releases, two special affinities for chakra. By manipulating them, he affects the fabric of time-space. When Sasori, Naruko, Haku and Chibaku sent the Izanami into his hole, it spread Yin chakra into it. Having too much Yin and not enough Yang to equalize his energy, Susanoo's chakra went awry, and remained unstable for a long time. Basically, they screwed Susanoo's chakra control, and he cannot become intangible, nor teleport, without it. This, ultimately, makes him vulnerable to close-range attacks, even though he remains a formidable opponent.
Escaping from the Madara trio once again (but faring much better against them in battle; at the price of Kisame, Kimimaro and Wave-Verse!Team 7's lives - barring Kakashi, who now goes by the name of Kamui. The entire Land of Waves was also a collateral victim when Amaterasu destroyed iy), the Arashi clan (with Kamui, a female Haku and Zabuza joining them) arrived in the Mokuton world (a world where Naruto was raised by Tsunade, who's also his mother). There, Tsunade healed their injuries. Then, they left this world.
They arrived in another world where Naruto was Happily Adopted and raised by the Inuzuka clan. Nothing special, except the fact that Sasori and Chibaku showed their spying prowess by discovering that. The Arashi clan, not having much to do in this world, later left. After fighting an entire forest out to kill them.
They appeared in another world (with Yet Again characters making a small appearance), where Sasori do not particularly stands out, except for negotiating and briefly grabbing the Idiot Ball.
However, in the Cloud-Verse (one in which Naruto defected to Kumo and became N), Sasori stands out yet again. No, scratch that. He was a Magnificent Bastard. When captured by Kumo, by sheer analysis, he knew that the Raikage, A was proficient in taijutsu, that C and Darui (A's Co-Dragons) were the same as the ones in his original universe and that N was essentially nigh-unstoppable due to his control over the Kyuubi. He was perfectly aware that in such a situation, varying on what A would do with the Arashi Clan, that they could be easily offed. At this moment, he was already thinking about how to adapt to the current situation. In order to look less threatening than they actually are, he strikes (a nonetheless sincere) Odd Friendship with Killer B (A's brother... And bad rapper) over rap, poetry and Haikus. He also negociates with A : The Arashi Clan gives knowledge (techniques, information, expertise) to Kumo, and N helps the Narutos (except Kazama, who lost his Kyuubi) control their Kyuubi, which helps the Arashi clan against the Madara trio in the long run. A replied that he would think about it, and in the meanwhile let them go, while having ANBU watch over the Arashi Clan.
Sadly, these negociations failed due to Kazama's world!Orochimaru manipulating A. As a result, the Arashi clan ended up imprisoned in the Vault, Kumo's maximum security prison, a flying tower above Kumo with indestructible walls. On top of that, they sealed the Arashi Clan's Chakra, took away all of their weapons, the imprisoned Narutos are unable to contact their Kyuubis, there are more than a hundred guards approximately, and they can detonate the prisons any time they want. At first sight, it looks like you have better chances escaping Guantanamo.
Enter Sasori (who, alongside Kamui and Haku, evaded capture and allied with Bee, Yugito and Mabui, one of A's assistants), and at a lesser extent his student Chibaku.
He smuggled a letter in Chibaku and Naruko's cell. He knew that Chibaku would try and use his secret puppet Momo, and the letter was designed to blow up if it was anyone else but Momo. The letter's contents? A plan of the entire prison, the locations of the rest of the Arashi clan's cells, detailed information about the Warden (Orochimaru), with a calling seal that, once disabled, will tell Sasori that their plan will start. Chibaku disables the seals. Things starts. After spying on the guards with Momo, Chibaku had neutralized the seals on their Kyuubi, the walls, and the doors. Once the signal is launched, Mabui will teleport Sasori, Kamui and Haku to the Vault, where they will assassinate Orochimaru. Despite N and A's unexpected death, Yugito going berserk as a result, Ororchimaru's resistance and use of Edo Tensei and Cloud-Verse!Gaara (a female Gaara) attacking everyone in sight, the plan was ultimately a success, and the Arashi clan (with Yugito and Gaara joining) teleported to another world.
Said world? Responsible!Jiraya's world, a world where Jiraya took care of Naruto and raised him.
So, they met Responsible!Jiraya and Responsible!Jiraya's world!Naruto, with both being huge perverts, as expected. And later, the Madara trio found them and fought them, once again. But they were even better than last time, with Jiraya and Zabuza succeeding in killing Amaterasu, albeit at the cost of the latter's life. The Arashi Clan is afterwards separated in several worlds by the Shinigami and Amatsu-Mikabochi, with Kuebiko (an alternate version of Tobirama Senju), Sasori, Chibaku and Haku ending up in the Dystopia world (if you want to know more about this world, see Alpha's CM EP).
When separated from the others by Alpha's ANBU, Sasori placed a spying device on an ANBU's armor, and discovered that the Senju clan's "relocation" meant genocide, the existence of clones and that the ANBU plans to trap him, Chibaku, Haku and Kuebiko. While Chibaku and Haku were out of reach, Sasori warned Kuebiko and they killed the ANBU guarding them. Then, they escaped to Konoha's suburbs, which lead them to meet Good!Orochimaru, the leader of Taka. Good!Ororchimaru agreed to help them escape this world. In return, they will help him get rid of Alpha's worldwide dictatorship. Alpha was impersonating Madara (who was in truth dead even before Alpha's birth), Sasori revealed that he knew during the whole time it couldn't be Madara : he didn't make a speech in person (instead of the recorded images Alpha uses) and he would've likely personally crushed Taka. Something he didn't do here. Orochimaru also gave Sasori Chikamatsu Monzaemon's puppets (Chikamatsu Monzaemon was the first ninja puppeteer... And Sasori's idol), thus sealing their alliance.
Orochimaru, Sasori and Kuebiko ended up invading Alpha's lair, with the former two confronting Alpha personally. Alpha then uses the Ten-Tails to fight them, before being taken over by the aforementioned Ten-Tails. However, the Ten-Tails isn't free yet. It's still contained inside the statue, and merely using Alpha as a proxy body. Too bad for it : Sasori had a seal that can unbalance the chakra control of an individual which as such could disrupt the bond. All Orochimaru had to do, was to put the seal in Alpha's possessed body : it worked, leading to Alpha's defeat. Chibaku, however, had been tortured to near-death, requiring Sasori to save him by turning him into a iron (instead of wood) human puppet. Speaking with Chibaku and Omoikane (another world's Anko), he concluded that their old method of fighting with puppetry was ultimately outdated since they were losing badly against the likes of Madara, and that the new stage of puppetry was "An individual controlling a puppet from within, building more advanced models and defeating enemies with versatile weaponry". Cue Sasori and Omoikane working on a canon strong enough to create earthquakes and an explosive kunai launcher. Weapons strong enough to frighten Kuebiko into redefining what a weapon of mass destruction is. Sasori, Chibaku and Haku are later reunited with the rest of the Arashi clan (barring Gaara, Put on a Bus) in the Ame-verse. They are attacked by Susanoo, Izanagi (Izanami's world's Madara) and Susanoo's Six Paths of Pain (composed of Hashirama Senju, the Third Kazekage, Mu, the Third Raikage, and the Second Mizukage, all of them revived by Edo Tensei). In an ironic twist of fate, Sasori (and Chibaku) ends up dealing with the Third Kazekage. Being as Crazy-Prepared as ever, Sasori reveals that his and Chibaku's metal bodies are also built to No-Sell the Third Kazekage's attempts at controlling their bodies with his iron manipulation. note When the Third Kazekage nonetheless succeeds in grabbing him (and was about to kill him and use him as puppet against Chibaku), Sasori pulls one last Xanatos Speed Chess : he activates his self-destruct sequence, saving Chibaku from death at the cost of his own life. He ultimately succeeded in obtaining immortality, by passing down the torch to his legacy and adoptive son, Chibaku.
Is he brilliant? Charming?
Absolutely. Sasori is Affably Evil, he can form a lot of weird friendships (including one with Killer Bee, as he saw his rap as art), he's The Spock, and in spite of his serious character, He's Not So Above It All : when everyone was arguing about the name of the future Arashi Clan, Sasori suggested... The Sasori Clan. According to Chibaku, Sasori often pulled pranks too.
He's a brilliant spymaster. He quickly gains tons of data about what's going on in Kitsune's world through this world's Homura, enough data to blackmail the Hokage without effort. His spies went unnoticed, and he had to tell the Hokage for him to discover. Just in case, he always have a copy of his journal around him (which proved useful when blackmailing the Hokage) where he stored tons of information(Countless data on jutsu, future plans, Bijuu and Jinchuuriki locations, spies, corrupt agents, undiscovered mines, puppet designs...).
He never loses his cool. Against the Madara Trio, a team of nigh-unstoppable hero killers, not only he Know When to Fold 'Em, but he can also pull a Kryptonite Factor. Against the unkillable Edo Tensei zombies? He seals them. Against the Juubi? Xanatos Speed Chess.
Several characters, such as Chibaku, admires his underhanded and sneaky tactics, to the point of being referred openly as a Magnificent Bastard.
As a result, he's easily an Ensemble Dark Horse : by chapter 24, according to a poll, he was the second most popular character, tying with Amaterasu and behind Kazama. Oh, and in a fanfic sometimes criticized by some readers for rushed death scenes, several people agreed that Sasori's sendoff stood out for not being rushed, and for easily entering Tear Jerker territory.
Thinking on his feet?
- "There were three secrets to win a battle: being able to adapt to any situation, knowing your adversary's tricks, and being ready to go at any length to beat him. Sasori knew how to exploit any situation, and he could fight very dirty if he wanted to."
His first fight with Tsukiyomi showed in itself that he is more than able to improvise. In fact, Sasori is almost expecting his plans to fail or to be hindered and is always trying to find a way to adapt to the situation, no matter how hard it is. Kisame and Kimimaro's presences in the Wave-Verse? Sasori places a seal on Kisame. They are threatened by Kumo in the Cloud-Verse? Negociations, and later jailbreak. What is even more impressive is that Sasori, especially against the Madara Trio, often ends up losing several of his puppets because of his opponent is just that good. But in the next fight? Not only he has puppets all over again, but often puppets designed to adapt against his foe by basing himself on the gained experience in the previous battle. He's so Crazy-Prepared he might as well be Batman.
What about the competition?
Only three characters can stand up to him : Tsukiyomi, Good!Orochimaru and Izanami. Tsukiyomi ? True, he may have surpassed Sasori's adaptability, but Sasori nevertheless stood out by being one of the few, if not the only one character, to sent Tsukiyomi through a Villainous Breakdown. Good!Orochimaru, as the name says, is firmly on the side of good, and thus cannot count. Izanami? He never interacted with her, and she only started to stand out after his death.
Is he a bastard? Too much of a bastard?
- "Naruto, remember this lesson: always be prepared for everything. Everything."
In a team full of Anti-Heroes, Sasori manages somehow to stand out : he is amoral, he does things For Science!, is a grave robber, engages in blackmail and spying, Would Hurt a Child, kills and almost tortures (but not out of sadism) people and turns them into puppets on a regular basis, and uses biological warfare. Normally, he would have crossed the Moral Event Horizon a long time ago. In the Dystopia-Verse, he could care less about Haku, not even mentioning her, but still hell-bent on rescuing her, if only because Chibaku was also captured. On top of that, by the beginning of the fanfiction, he was little to no different from his canon self. What a good person.
However, in this Darker and Edgier fanfic, the standards are absurdingly high (just look at Kenta's, Alpha's, the Warlord's and Obito's CM EP and you'll see what I'm talking about). On top of that, his affabillity is completely genuine... And may Lord have mercy on you if you hurt Chibaku. He won't even bother trying to experiment on the perpetrator, no matter how valuable their corpse will be to further his art.
He may, in his nihilism, have a part in destroying Kazama's former idealism, but not only he did it because he genuinely wanted the best for him, but he also later regretted it. On top of that, he truly cared about the Arashi clan as a whole. And I don't think I need to talk about his Heroic Sacrifice. On top of that, according to Chibaku, most of his victims are Asshole Victims (even though he still killed them unprovoked, and For Science!, instead of punishing them for their crimes), which tones down the killing part. Also, Even Evil Has Standards : he despises Alpha's world-class hypocrisy.
Verdict ?
He's openly referred as a Magnificent Bastard thrice. But it's up to you if he can indeed fit.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jul 5th 2019 at 3:13:40 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Goku Black
Sure to fanfic sasori.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Sasori
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Sure there.
Pretty busy this weekend, lads, so just a heads up I'll probably wait until the following Sunday to submit the batch.
Seto and Sasori.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hey, me again. I'm doing some de-potholing, and found this at Blake and Mortimer:
- Magnificent Bastard: Olrik, before Diminishing Villain Threat set in.
I just cut that, as, besides being a Zero-Context Example, I don't think an MB can suffer decay, or he wouldn't be an MB anymore, right?
Edited by ACW on Jul 6th 2019 at 1:34:38 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Contextual. Vincent from Collateral is listed as going through Badass Decay (I’d debate that but YMMV and all) and I still got him up. It really depends on how much that holds water in the actual work. Fans open things up to all kinds of interpretations.
That being said... from reading his CM entry he sounds like a total asshole. I’ll need to see an EP before I even think of letting that back up.
Edited by 43110 on Jul 6th 2019 at 1:41:55 PM
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Olrik? I should eventually EP him. That guy's brilliant!
Not going to be easy though...
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jul 6th 2019 at 7:48:25 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Oh, and for his CM entry? It's in the animated series. As mentioned in the entry, he's not as heinous in the original comics.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
That makes me a bit more comfortable hearing you out on him... I'll assume this bit on Values Dissonance does not actually make it apparent he's willing to betray his Asian allies as "partially based on his being white" because while I'm willing to hear a work with bigoted tones including a character who isn't bigoted, if the character himself is a racist, he can't be going up.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Ironically, in the comics, Olrik stays around with his employer (who's generally the Monster of the Week) until it's absolutely certain that his employer's plans will fail. Even then, he can flee with his employer (not necessarily always the case though : he can flee when his employer kicked the bucket or leave when it's certain things are failing. But he can also end up imprisoned).
Quite ironic that you said "willing to betray his Asian allies". He was still with his Japanese employer in Professor Sato's Three Formulae (the last book of the series written by Edgar P. Jacobs, the creator of the comic book) when he was possibly Killed Off for Real (The robot Samurai caught up with Olrik and Kim's helicopter and destroyed it, alongside the submarine waiting for them).
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jul 6th 2019 at 11:11:12 AM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Could well just be misuse of tropes from back in the day. Seen it done before.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Since it's been years since I read the series, I'll read the whole thing all over again and then EP Olrik.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Sure, take all the time you need.
I saw Spoderman Far From Home.
I give it a Pizza Time/10.
Does Seto have enough![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
s to be posted? I'm not sure how the process goes from here.
The Protomen enhanced my life.