Discussion Woobie / WesternAnimation

I saw two examples under My Gym Partner's a Monkey:

• Henry has his moments too.
• Cyrus Hornbill also has shades of this.

And one under Top Cat

• Top Cat himself becomes a Jerkass Woobie from time to time.

With almost no context. The reason I put them on the discussion rather than just commenting them out is because the first two use words that make me think they were really supposed to be Tear Jerker examples and not The Woobie examples, while the third has that problem and is a zero context Jerkass Woobie example.

Leaving Sponge Bob up for now, for the same reason as Pinky before, but:

• Patrick, too. He's unemployed, not very bright, and it's implied that Spongebob is his only real friend because no one else will put up with him.

Patrick is not a woobie. He hardly ever suffers, when he does his suffering is usually either his own fault or deserved (or both), he almost never cares even when he does suffer, and in general the audience does not find him terribly sympathetic. Also, of the three pieces of context listed, Patrick likes the first one, doesn't mind the third, and the second has nothing to do with the trope.

• Squidward. He's constantly miserable because his two idiot neighbors annoy the living crap out of him on a regular basis.

Squidward is still a Jerkass Woobie and still doesn't belong on this page for that reason. He is on that page.

Moving to the animated film page (unless he's already listed):

• Melman from Madagascar is a borderline Woobie when he learns his girlfriend Gloria was taken by Moto Moto. That's not all, the other giraffes thought he was going to die., leading him to become gullible enough to listen to King Julien and nearly fall into the volcano. Be thankful Gloria saved his life.

Why should he count? Context is everything.

If he does, he would go on this page. But remember, a few bad days doesn't make a regular series character a woobie.

Sorry.

Part II of the cleanup:

• Oh, please. David Xanatos worked his ass off to acquire the funds to fulfill his vision, just so a bunch of Eldritch Abominations could smash it all to pieces.

This is a non-example that relies on Alternative Character Interpretation. It doesn't belong period.

• Grim from The Grim Adventures Of Billy And Mandy. Yes, turning The Grim Reaper into this is quite a feat.
  • Nergal Junior was an even bigger Woobie. He was a Creepy Child Shapeshifter born of an interspecies romance who had no friends, causing him to go on creepy and unstoppable kidnapping sprees.

Grim is a Zero Context Example. Nergal Junior sounds like a non-example.

• Claude from Gum Nutz.

Zero Context Example.

• Henry from Ka Blam sure is one. Everyone, even his best friend June (who seems to have a crush on him) is constantly beating him up or just being mean to him. Though sometimes June might feel sorry for what she's been doing and cheer him up.
  • June temporarily becomes one in Won't Stick to Most Dental Work!, when she's away from Henry. And A Nut in Every Bite!. Henry falls for Dawn (and this episode's supposed to come after episode 29, when H&J kiss), and you can kinda sense that June is pretty heartbroken.

Again, character trope not situation trope. I know I sound like a broken record by now but this seems to be the most common error in editing these pages. Henry as an example is questionable, since the violence on that show was generally not played as misery-inducing as far as I can recall.

• Bugs Bunny, considering he deals with people like Daffy and Lola on a daily basis.

Bugs Bunny is not a woobie. He has too much power to be a woobie.

• Courage The Cowardly Dog coincidentally suffers the same as Flapjack, he is also the most friendly and optimistic character on his show and he also lives in a Crapsack World and one of the only characters who respect him is Muriel, whom he always has to save almost every episode.

This example could be right, but it needs to be rewritten so it doesn't refer to a completely unrelated show and put in the right place.

• Applies to Jenny in more than a few episodes as well. The best example is the Christmas Episode, where she's kidnapped by Todd Sweeney, a child who seeks revenge against all holidays (and who himself is a woobie, because it's due to parental neglect); she wakes up a year later to find that the entire city has turned against her - including her own mother - because of things she did against her will. The only one willing to support her against Todd? Sheldon. And Jenny is sure to reward him in the end.

Character trope not situation trope.

• Bubbles from the Powerpuff Girls certainly counts as a Woobie.
  • YMMV, but Buttercup may also count. Her sisters were named for their personalities, she was named Buttercup because "It also begins with a B!" and she her special power is to Curl her tongue.

Zero Context Example. Examples Are Not Arguable.

• Gus from Recess, and when the plot calls for it, T.J. can be one at times, escpecially in the first part of the movie.

Zero Context Example.

• Pepper Ann, Nicky, and Milo are sort of woobies, with PA trying to be cool but almost always failing, not to mention having Amicably Divorced parents, Milo having to deal with a girl who Switchies between liking him and not liking him and Nicky being the Un Favourite due to everyone favoriting her sister over her.
  • At least they have each other (awww).

Only Nicky sounds woobie-like at all. Others are standard everyday problems that don't cause audience sympathy to any significant degree.

• Also Candace. Though one feels a bit annoyed by how determined she is to get her brothers in trouble, you can't help but feel sorry for how dang hard she has to try at it. And let's not forget "Nerds of A Feather"
• This is an odd one, but Buford, at least in the episode "Voyage to the Bottom of Buford." I mean, just watch that song. He's so lonely he's trying to play Ping-Pong with a goldfish. It's probably a good thing he starts hanging around with Phineas and Ferb more after that episode.
• Isabella could count too. Especially in "Summer Belongs To You", where she sings an entire song about her love for Phineas....but he doesn't notice her.
• This one may sound weird but...Irving. After seeing how his Brother Treats him, is it no wonder he turned into a obsessive fanboy?
• Phineas. 99% of the time, he's an excitable, optimistic bundle of joy, but when he breaks? He really breaks.
• Even Ferb has had his fair share of Stoic Woobie moments. Two prominent examples would be the end of The Beak (It's Played for Laughs, but you can still feel bad for the poor guy), and his Eiffel tower scene in Summer Belongs to You. And the saddest thing is, no matter what happens to him, he never complains, at least not prominantly, and always acts as if everything is just cool with him.

Plenty of non-examples and questionable examples. People who are generally well-off and happy are not the woobie. I feel sorry for them in one episode does not make them the woobie. Irving of these is the only one that sounds like it could make sense but needs more context.

• Ralph Wiggum. In the two episodes that really featured him ("I Love Lisa" and "This Little Wiggy") he was dumped and humiliated on live TV in the first one, and ruthlessly exploited for his dad's skeleton key in the second one (and terrified as a result). Flanderization has also turned him from sort of a younger version of Homer in earlier episodes (with some hidden acting talent) into the mental three-year-old that he is today, which also makes you pity him in a sort of meta sense (almost like watching someone with Alzheimer's).
• There's also Marge, who has to put up with a Jerkass husband and a misbehaving son.
• Ned Flanders also counts. His wife died and he has to live next to Homer, one of the biggest Jerkasses in Springfield. His house was demolished in Hurricane Neddy and his collection of Beatles merchandise and suits were ravaged by Bart. This guy's got it pretty rough, even if he is a Take That! at Fundamentalists.

Ralph is almost always well-off and happy; he's not the woobie. Marge is in power; she's not the woobie. Ned Flanders might be the woobie (though if anything he's probably an Iron Woobie) but again, discretely cited episodes are not very reassuring. Needs better context.

• Murdoc had a bit of this in his pre-teen days. His father forced him to participate in embarrassing talent contests for money. His brother broke his nose twice for using his (the brother's) record player without permission. Murdoc claims to have hit puberty at eight and lost his virginity at nine, and while he's an Unreliable Narrator at best, he'd also probably have no problem with mentioning something like that for pure shock value, so it's horribly possible that he's not lying. However, he was a thoroughly horrible child, just as he's a thoroughly horrible adult, so maybe he fitted Jerkwad Woobie better.

Moving this to Jerkass Woobie unless it's already there.

• Poor, poor Oswald The Lucky Rabbit, as we get to see in Epic Mickey. Wanna know why? First, he was abandoned by his own father over a budget dispute with Charles Mintz, and when Walter Lantz took over the cartoons, Walt openly approved of Lantz using Ozzie. And it only got worse when Oswald's half-brother Mickey Mouse usurped his original popularity, which, coupled with Lantz's change of the character, as well as the gradual rise of Screwy Squirrel characters over cute funny animals in the early 1940s (including Universal's own new character, Woody Woodpecker) sent Oswald to his grave in 1943, after limping by for the last several years. You would think that in the world for forgotten Disney characters, he would have finally gotten the happy ending he deserved. But nope, things got even WORSE for him — said half-brother just happened to accidently spill a jug of paint thinner onto Yensid's world, which would up ruining the whole place by turning it into a savage wasteland, as well as unleashing the Shadow Blot upon the place, which would lead the entire world into even more mayhem and ruin, forcing Oswald and any remaining resistance underground—the lowest point of his life would be seeing his own wife, Ortensia the Cat, frozen into stone, the experience eventually degenerating him into a distrusting, bitter Anti-Villain. And on top of that, he's manipulated by the Blot into becoming jealous and hateful of Mickey so he can be used to its advantage. That said, he DOES finally get his happy ending when Wasteland is restored and he finally bonds with Mickey. Things are getting better for him in Real Life as well. In 2004, Japan had a gigantic craving for rabbit and toy companies began churning out Oswald plushies which were insanely popular. Not to mention in 2006, Disney literally traded a human being (sports caster Al Michaels) to NBC in exchange for Oswald, showing that they still truly care for him and that they want him to return home.
  • And if you haven't yet cried for Oswald after hearing his story, try watching this and see if you can keep a dry eye.

This is an odd situation. I feel uncomfortable pulling the whole thing for a rewrite because it currently provides both the page quote and image (which is serious Fan Myopia that should be fixed somehow anyway). But this description is way, way too long for someone who's basically only a woobie on a meta-level and in one game. I already trimmed some Word Cruft. Someone who knows Oswald better can trim or compress more.

Part III of the cleanup. First things first, round of applause for the South Park section. Burying work name in character name and bad example indentation aside, every single character listed I buy as a woobie. Even if Butters is far above and beyond the others, I can easily see all of the others over the line.

Now...

• Aang, of Avatar: The Last Airbender. Hey, how'd you enjoy that nap in the iceberg? Oh, by the way, everyone you ever knew is dead. And they didn't die peaceably of old age, they were all horribly killed.
  • Appa for most of season 2, going by "Appa's Lost Days" at least.
    • Averted big-time with Toph. You'd think being small, blind and a runaway who felt deprived of her parents' love and support is instant woobie, just add tears. But the writers instead chose to focus on her being a Cute Bruiser Little Miss Snarker.
      • It's to the point that it's poked at when she tries to tell her life story melodramatically to Zuko after the others had been able to spend the time to get to know him. Doesn't really work out, so she just keeps on kicking ass immediately afterward.
  • Zuko. The poor guy has been The Unfavorite since the day his mother dissapeared protecting him, subjected to mind games by his sociopath of a sister growing up, got half of his face burned off and banished by his own father for speaking out of turn, and then got sent to find the Avatar, who, by the way, hadn't been seen for one hundred years. And then goes through hell trying to catch him when he turns up. I think this kid needs a hug.◊
    • That's rough, buddy
      • Poor◊ guy◊ really◊ needs◊ a◊ hug.◊
  • Post-Villainous Breakdown Azula. Seriously, the creators somehow managed to turn her from the evil, scary, indisputable chessmaster and Magnificent Bastard to the heart-wrenching woobie in the course of oh, I don't know, thirty minutes? See also Jerkass Woobie.
  • On a slightly more humorous note, what about the Birthday Guy from the finale? Just check out his sad face after he gets dumped out of the airship and into the water. On his birthday.
    • Oh, you know that captain guy who's probably an ass? Yeah, he's throwing you a party. Except he's not your captain. And also there's no party. Also get off the ship alright bye.
  • Sokka and Katara. They lost their mom when they were small children, and for two years they had to be the sole providers for their village when their Dad and all the other men in their Tribe go off to fight in the war, Katara's not allowed to be taught by the only Waterbending master they've found because she's a girl, Sokka's love interest dies in his arms, Katara was forced to bloodbend to save Aang and Sokka, Sokka almost loses Toph during the final battle, and almost dies himself. These two seriously need a hug.
    • So basically everyone who's ever served as a main character in Avatar is a Woobie.
  • How did we forget about Cabbage Guy? Jeez...◊

I'm not pulling this because I don't think there are any examples here, but because most of the examples seem questionable and some belong on Jerkass Woobie instead (which are already there, I checked.) If someone who knows the show better than I do wants to put them back on, go ahead, but please add more or better context. Also, aversions and redundant generalized statements don't belong.

• To a lesser extent, Dr. Scratchensniff.

Scratchensniff is not really a woobie from what I can recall. If he is, he needs better context anyway.

• Squidward and Plankton from Sponge Bob Square Pants. The latter mainly due to recent characterization; he was always an Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain but he really enjoyed being evil. Now he just wants one customer and some success, even by honest means, and constantly winds up failing and sobbing while Mr. Krabs laughs at him.
  • Spongebob in some episodes (specially in the first season). Even SQUIDWARD feels sorry for him on certain ocassions.

Spongebob is almost always well-off and happy. He's not the woobie; he has isolated Tear Jerker moments. The other two are Jerkass Woobies and already listed on that page.

• Though not usually Woobies, The Twins of Superjail! had a moment of this in the season finale after being kidnapped by the pornographer. "We don't want to talk about it."
  • A more conventional Woobie in Superjail! would be Jared. Poor guy.

The twins are declared non-examples. Jared has no context. I don't watch the show.

• Starfire, Raven, and Terra from the animated Teen Titans.
  • I think that Beast Boy can be seen as one as well, mainly in Seasons 2 and 5.

I don't watch Teen Titans enough to expand these Zero Context Examples.

• Perceptor from Transformers Generation 1. Anyone who has ever read anything about him, fanon or otherwise, knows that everyone who likes him at all makes him suffer horribly in every possible way. But we love him. Really. Honest.
  • Red Alert, as well.
  • Wasp(inator). Full stop. No matter what continuity he's in, he will suffer miserably - and we absolutely love him for it.
    • I think that Wasp(inator) is more of a Chew Toy.
    • Transformers Animated's Wasp might be a bit closer to the role, but his case is...complicated, making Wasp a whole different kind of woobie.

I don't watch Transformers at all but I can't overlook this pile of Zero Context Example, Natter, and chained Sinkholes. Someone who does can rewrite the examples that fit better.

• It's been generally agreed that most, if not all of the Winnie The Pooh characters are this, though perhaps Rabbit, Owl, Beaver, Christopher Robin, Darby and certain other incidental characters less so.
  • Christopher Robin becomes a bit more of one after you see the end of Pooh's Grand Adventure: The Search for Christopher Robin, and notice how similar it is to the end of the last Winnie The Pooh story - specifically Christopher Robin and Pooh talking about how they never will forget each other, even if they can never see each other again. The last book strongly implies that Christopher Robin is being sent to a boarding school and can never visit the Hundred Acre Woods again, and the movie very well could have been suggesting the same thing. At the very least, the implication that the kid will grow up and have to leave his childhood behind is quite sad.
  • Rabbit at the very least is a tall order Jerkass Woobie. Why do these things always happen to him? Why, oh, why, oh, why?

This should probably be rewritten so that it explains why exactly Piglett, Eeyore, Pooh, etc. are woobies instead of just listing the exceptions. I have limited familiarity with the characters so I imagine my context would be incomplete.

• Can we get an "amen" for Fred Herman Jones on Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated? At the end of season 1, he finds out the Mayor of Crystal Cove wasn't his real dad as claimed, so he breaks off his engagement with Daphne to find his real mom and dad. Then in the season 2 premiere, his trap to catch the episode's villain, Crybaby Clown, fails as Daphne (who had gone on to get a new boyfriend) wasn't at the spot called for so the thing could work.

This was in the wrong place on the list and it honestly sounds like a non-example (isolated Tear Jerker). But admittedly I don't know this version of the show, so if it is an actual example, please put it back on the page (but under tbe S section.)

Now, even if the trope is broken, we can at least say this page is less broken than it could be.

Hey, I know I said I couldn't do anything else, but I just noticed some I missed in the A-C range.

• In Marceline's 3rd appearance in Adventure Time, she can be seen as one. Just listen to the song "Daddy, Why Did You Eat My Fries?".
• Lemongrab. He's a jerk, (and really annoying,) but he's absolutely pathetic, in his social awkwardness, Mommy Issues, constant anxiety, Friendless Background, and perpetual unhappiness. For some people, it's impossible to watch an episode with Lemongrab in it and not want to give him a hug or say something nice to him.

Marceline needs more context, and the specific episode citation makes her sound iffy. Lemongrab I left on the page, but (I don't watch the show) I don't know whether he counts as this or Jerkass Woobie. Also, the same character shouldn't be listed twice.

• Abe Lincoln on Clone High.
  • Abe?! Joan of Arc! Abe's total obliviousness to her feelings for him and repeated episodes that force her to choose between stealing him for herself or Doing the Right Thing make her the series Woobie.

Abe is a Zero Context Example. Joan sounds too in control of her suffering to be a woobie.

o_0 Wow...that was quite an effort.

I can't say "Yay" or "Nay" to every example specifically, but most of it seems to make sense.

One thing I wanted to add, in support of the above, was that if every or even most characters in a show are listed they probably aren't all the wooby (see Avatar, Teen Titans, Transformers); it may just be a Grimdark or Crapsaccharine World, or a story with a Bittersweet ending.

Bad things happening to a character does not make them the Wooby. Being sympathetic does not make them he Wooby. My understanding is that both of these things need to happen in conjuction, AND in greater amount than happens to any other character. The audience sympathy is not because of a specific event, but because the entire universe seems out to get this character specifically, and for no reason. That's my take on it, anyhow.

I felt bad that all I was doing was tweaking a good example when bad examples were piling up. >_< I like Woobies, I really don't want this to become JustForFun.Better Off Than He Sounds.

Not necessarily greater amounts than any other character or the entire universe, but it should be distinctly:

• External
• Undeserved
• Affecting
• Frequent and/or continuous
• Beyond their control

And then of course comes audience sympathy. Characters can still be The Woobie in overall unpleasant worlds (such as Amos from Chicago) but in that case they should still receive unconditional and personalized sympathy from the audience.

Why for Sponge Bob? Definitely for Disney, though.