Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Not unless the film says that he cared for her too.

Okay, Sandbox.Live Action TV Monsters A-F is mostly ready. Do any of the entries look like they need work? Are there any that should be removed?

edited 2nd Jan '14 12:38:23 PM by TVRulezAgain

Re: Veronica Mars: Good point on the serial rape, Lightysnake. With that in mind I'm going to say cut all villains except for Mercer, who does need a rewrite if he's going to stay. If he's approved here I'll do that next.

Re: Supernatural: I think I'll add Zeus's rewrite unless there are any objections. Permission to swap Lillith's old entry on YMMV.Supernatural with Ambar's rewrite on Monster.Live Action TV?

I've cut Red Rackham and Ivan Sakharine. If there are no objections I'll cut the Spoony examples as well, and add the Killing Zoe image to ImageLinks.Complete Monster, to which I've gotten no response so far.

TV Rulez Again: It seems Joss Whedon's Dollhouse hasn't been discussed yet. Here are the two current examples, spoiler tags removed:

• First is Hearn, who repeatedly rapes Sierra while she's in a childlike state in which she's been conditioned to trust him. He is then sent to kill Paul Ballard's neighbor, Mellie, which he appears to enjoy.
• Then there's Nolan Kinnard, who, when his various Dollhouse-assisted attempts at seducing Priya Tsetsang fail, has her kidnapped, drugged to appear schizophrenic, and committed to a mental hospital. He then volunteers her to the Dollhouse as an active and books her for repeated engagements in which she is in love with him. A throwaway shot of his drawer of Polaroids of Sierra is a Crowning Moment of Squick, no mean feat in a series with a premise designed to make you squirm.

There are a lot of possible bad guys in this show and the heinous standard is pretty high, but these two seem like keeps. Kinnard especially, considering the sheer lengths he goes to to make Priya what is basically a mindless sex slave.

There's another character in that show who's a good candidate: Boyd Langton.

Who is Boyd Langton?

Boyd Langton is an operative working for the Dollhouse, where "dolls" (people who are blackmailed into having their mind wiped and loaning it out for several years) are imprinted with personality downloads for assignments ranging from prostitution to high-scale theft. Throughout the two seasons he helps the Dollhouse on their missions and protects Echo as the Dollhouse's masters the Rossum corporation become increasingly corrupt. He is eventually revealed to be heading Rossum, and is responsible for almost every bad thing in the show.

What has he done?

Boyd and his partner Clive originally invented the mind inprinting tech. When his partner worries about the possible misuse Boyd wipes his mind and throws Clive inside a Lotus-Eater Machine for around 15 years while enlisting a copy of Clive with an altered personality. He's entirely responsible for Rossum's actions, which is basically enslavement in the Dollhouses. Rossum controls an information network around the world to keep track of things like medical records to better select candidates. He developed the Attic, the aforementioned Lotus-Eater Machine, to create a neural supercomputer, in which people are permanently trapped and forced to relive their worst nightmares over and over. He eventually orders his company to just start selling bodies to the highest bidders so the wealthy few can live forever. He ultimately wants to destroy the world so a chosen few whom he personaly selects will survive in his new world. He manipulates the characters for two seasons to develop the tech further and allow Echo to develop her skills. He orders Topher's girlfriend shot. He's quite willing to kill his own men to further his plans. He wants to extract Echo's spinal fluid to make a mindwipe immunity vaccine for himself and his loyalists.

Freudian Excuse or redeeming traits?

No. His affability before the reveal is entirely a front. He wants the people of the Dollhouse (Echo, Adele, Topher, and maybe Ballard, Victor, and Sierra) to live with him in the post-apocalyptic world he tries to create and claims it's because he loves them. He doesn't love them for who they are, however. He sees their value only in their skills and manipulated them for that purpose, and wants to force them to keep him company despite their horror and disgust with his plans (and he consciously killed the woman he knew Topher was in love with). He has no problem killing them if they refuse, as he makes quite clear to Echo. He's either too delusional to love anyone or he doesn't really care. He says that Echo's unique physiology will help "save the world", but he actually means that it will give his faction immunity while he actively plans to destroy civilization by mindwiping the rest of the planet himself.

Conclusion

With all of the above, it seems like Boyd is a keep.

edited 2nd Jan '14 3:50:41 PM by Morgenthaler

I think Boyd is a definite keep.

3rding Boyd.

Alright, here we go. Entries needing expansion IMHO:

• Comic Books
  • Crossed (Pratt's father needs expansion)
  • Dungeon: The Early Years maybe.
  • Elephantmen
  • 'A History of Violence'' maybe.
  • Thorgal
  • The Unfunnies
• Webcomics
  • Blade Of Toshubi maybe.
  • The Dragon Doctors
  • Everyday Heroes
  • Jack needs cleaning. And it says after this. After WHAT?
  • Mind Mistress maybe.
  • Mob Ties maybe.
  • Nosfera maybe.
  • Something*Positive maybe.
  • Wayward Sons maybe.

edited 10th Jan '14 2:52:25 PM by ACW

Here's a rewrite for Steve. I also have a rewrite for The Sorceress in Spyro: Year of the Dragon which has similar problems.

• Steve from "Badlands" is shown to have been sadistic, ruthless and sociopathic long before the Crossed outbreak, as demonstrated by her treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib and her abandonment of people who trusted her after the outbreak. While she's implied to have a Freudian Excuse and seemingly mellows out during her travels with her companions, she proves herself a monster when she shoots Greg in the kneecap to leave him for the Crossed and willingly infects herself at the end.
• The Sorceress in Spyro: Year of the Dragon. Her first act has her Kick the Dog by stealing every unborn dragon. While her Dragon Bianca claims she is a Well-Intentioned Extremist, the Sorceress chastises her for thinking this. She states that she wants to kill three hundred infant dragons for their wings, which she will use for a spell to make her live forever. When the horrified Bianca asks why she has to kill them, she replies that she doesn't; she just doesn't want them squirming around when she cuts off their wings. This one line prompts Bianca to pull an immediate Heel–Face Turn.

EDIT: Pokeslaughter probably goes in the Fan Works page.

edited 2nd Jan '14 7:06:45 PM by randomtroper89

Never watched Dollhouse, but Boyd sounds like a to me.

As for Boy A of From the New World, I say . After some thought, there's too much Off Screen Villainy to justify him being put on the main page. K from the same show, on the other hand, is an absolute . Will try to rewatch Episode 12 without shitting bricks to get enough info for a thorough yet concise entry.

P.S. The rewrites look way better than the original entries currently on their respective pages. Amazing what a little bit of rearranging and editing can do.

edited 3rd Jan '14 2:26:54 AM by sanfranman91

By the way, we still have not discussed the spoilered-out entry on the YMMV page for Valvrave the Liberator. I have replicated it below for your curiosity (beware of spoilers):

• Soichi Tokishima. He's a Mad Scientist who created the Valvraves, gene-spliced on children before they were even born and generally Crosses the Line Twice a second while maintaining the audacity to claim that it was all moral because he was given permission and funding despite the other scientists who's children were experimented on clearly state they though they signed up for something completely different.

Thoughts from anyone who watched the entire series (I stopped after Episode 10)?

NINJA EDIT: There's another entry added on Valvrave's page. I reproduced the entry below, but I think the latter entry already demonstrated why it's going to be a on my book. Anyway:

• Q-Vier is rising to this. He is a sadistic 14-year old who in the first episode becomes overjoyed when one of L-Elf's victims are still alive so he can personally empty a magazine into him. He even claims that he's happy that L-Elf defected so that he could kill him without getting in trouble for it. The only time he showed a bit of humanity was when he learned of H-Neun's death. To say that the fanbase are anxiously waiting for his death for killing several Ensemble Darkhorses would be an understatement.

edited 3rd Jan '14 2:44:27 AM by sanfranman91

Because there was a theater example in Other Media, I checked for other examples that might belong in that header. Here's what I found.

• William Shakespeare has produced timeless works with quite the incredible and diverse output. From some of his plays have come villains who are impressive in their depravity centuries later.
  • Honest Iago from Othello is one of the most famous examples of this trope in English Literature. A bitter Venetian officer who resents the promotion of another man over him by his commander, the Moor Othello, Iago schemes for revenge by ingratiating himself with Othello and driving him to madness with insinuations his beloved wife Desdemona is having an affair with the officer Cassio. Iago undermines Othello while acting as his friend. Iago murders his accomplice and even his own wife to cover for himself, and at the end, convinces Othello to murder Desdemona. At the end, Iago displays no remorse and refuses to speak one word more in his whole life. Through the play, Iago goes through various motives for his evil: racism, envy suspicion Othello is sleeping with his own wife...but at the end he simply concludes there is no motive. He simply enjoys this.
  • Richard III is one of the most famous examples of a Historical Villain Upgrade in English drama. Richard informs us early on that he is determined to prove a villain and ruin the day for everyone else. To that end, he seduces Anne Neville, whose noble husband he himself murdered, with every intent of discarding her later. He has his brother George, Duke of Clarence, sent to the Tower of London and murdered, drives his older brother King Edward IV into an early grave and has Edward's two young sons imprisoned in the Tower of London, before having them murdered. He poisons Anne herself, and even begins having his allies killed. On the night before his battle with Henry Tudor, he is visited by the spirits of his victims, who tell him to despair and die. Richard is left alone, deserted by all, and at the end, he admits that even he has nothing but hatred for himself.
• In Heinrich Marschner's opera Der Vampyr, Ruthven is a Satan worshipper, who must drink the blood of three women over a twenty-four hour period or forfeit his soul to Hell. He kills a girl named Janthe, then fakes his death after her father shoots him, making his friend Aubrey, who he once saved, keep his being a vampire a secret. The next day, Aubrey finds Ruthven has hypnotised his Love Interest Malwina's father into engaging them; he has also begun preying on a girl named Emmy. Ruthven kills Emmy, handing her soul over to his masters, then goes through with his plans to marry Malwina, while using his supposed friendship with Aubrey and the oath that the latter swore, to keep him from warning her and her father that Ruthven will kill her. In the end Ruthven is struck down by his own masters, moments before he can kill not only Malwina, but Aubrey too, whom he regards as a traitor for trying to stop Ruthven from killing his girlfriend.

edited 3rd Jan '14 7:03:47 AM by randomtroper89

RT89. Changes made to YMMV and requests made to change the CM entries.

edited 3rd Jan '14 7:28:00 AM by ACW

Is everyone okay with my write-up for The Poughkeepsie Tapes?

Any last thoughts on Dag? Also I'm okay with the writeup on the Butcher from the Poughkeepsies Tapes.

edited 3rd Jan '14 10:34:33 AM by AustinDR

Front Mission

• Complete Monster: Driscoll in 1st, even when playing the USN scenario who manages to make some of the officers in the USN likeable enough he keeps being a complete dick who treats Kevin like trash and his soldiers like tools.This would put him right on Jerkass territory but then there's the stuff he does to Maria and Karen along with all the scheme with the Sakata Industries.
  • Serov in 3. He destroyed a city and killed several people just for the sake of researching his experimental Wanzer Genie Arm. He's also so insane, he would attack his own allies randomly.

Serov maybe, but it doesn't explain anything about Driscoll other than being a Jerkass.

Fullmetal Alchemist: Bluebird's Illusion

• Complete Monster: Father considers his own children to be nothing more than means to an end, and will even callously order their deaths. To say nothing of his plans for mankind.
  • Frighteningly, or funny, depending on your view, Hohenheim is Father in this continuity.

The main page has this:

• Utopia Justifies the Means: Father seeks to create a world free of human greed and claims all humans are marked with "inerasable sin." To this end, he enlists Edward to turn the people of central into a new Philosopher's Stone.

Cut father.

As for Driscoll, here's a new writeup.

• Driscoll of the first Front Mission is a ruthless commander who makes an enemy of The Hero Clevain by seemingly killing his fiancee in front of him and setting off a massive explosion to frame him for it. When he reappears later, Driscoll attempts to destroy civilian areas to recreate this disaster and reveals he is behind a scheme to make the current battle mechs, The Wanzers, obsolete- by forcing POWs to be forcibly mechanized and trapping their brains as digital computers for warfare. He has already done this to the hero's fiancee Karen with his own mech as well.

• Janita has Air Jay, who kills people on a whim.

I decided to read the story, and he is definitely a keep.

Who is Air Jay? Air Jay is a psychopathic Viking, who took part in the Third Ninja War as a mercenary, before being sealed by Naruto's parents, Minato and Kushino. In the present time he is unsealed by Takuma and Tutu^note Yes, Air Jay does point out how stupid of a name that is to help him unseal a weapon.

What Does He Do? A lot. When he is unsealed by two of Tutu's bandits, they react in terror remarking that he killed a thousand people during the Third Ninja War. There fears are proven correct when he burns them to death. When Takuma informs him that Minato and Kushino have died he kills several bandits in a fit of rage. Takuma then tells him that they have a son, Air Jay is then ready to join his plan to unearth the weapon to destroy the village. The next chapter Naruto and company come across a village that has been ravaged by Air Jay, with many people burned to death. Later we see Air Jay commit the massacre. He kills the village headmaster for "ruining his cool entrance", and kills the villagers for trying to fight back with pitchforks. He is about to kill a child when Hinata tries to stop him. When Air Jay defeats Hinata, he considers killing her in front of her daughter, the eponymous Janita, until he smells Naruto on her and takes her alive as bait. When Hinata wakes up she finds herself chained to a boulder, rigged to kill an innocent girl if she escapes. Air Jay gets Hinata to agree to be his personal slave, only to admit he was screwing with her head. He later shows Hinata the weapon telling her that it needs her Charka to power the weapon. When confronted by Naruto and co, he jokes that he committed the massacre to wanted to eat the sardines the village was famous for, only to admit it was a side benefit. Naruto and co, get into a large multi chapter fight, during so it Janita is revealed to have the power of the nine tailed fox. Eventually Kakashi shows up and distracts Air Jay long enough for them to escape. Upon returning to the base, Air Jay pulls Hinata down from the boulder just to kill the girl. He sends eight bandits to kill his father for knowing his weakness despite that he refused to disclose it. He also takes a woman and has her tell the slaves digging up the weapon about all his actions and tells them she will die in ten seconds if they do not work harder, only to kill her when he reaches six and tauntingly counts the rest of the numbers. When Naruto and co show up at the Viking village they find out that as a child he would go around hurting people, even killing them sometimes. Back at the base Air Jay takes to prisoners and asks her which one he should kill, then kills them both. He does this again the next day, telling Hinata it was her fault they both died. When Naruto and co stop the bandits, they beg him to let them kill Air Jay's father, because they are so terrified to fail him. When the weapon is unearthed, Air Jay has the slaves burned to death. Naruto and co arrive at the base they find out that Air Jay intends to use the weapon to destroy the entire Leaf Village, unlike Takuma who simply wanted to kill the leader and take over. He then uses Takuma to power the machine telling him he intends to keep Hinata to abuse.

Heinous Standard For Heinous standard he fits. No one else does anyting like him. Takuma and Tutu do little but tolerate his actions, which is cruel but not enough. Danzo might have created him as a weapon against the Uchinas, he only gave him the power. Air Jay chose to use it to hurt people.

Freudian Excuse?

Not a chance. He even gives a rant about how he was no excuse, but just likes his actions. Sakura speculates that growing up at the Viking village must be why he is so cruel, but we find out that he is evil even by there standards, given that his name has became a curse to them.

Conclusion

I think that he is a keeper.

edited 3rd Jan '14 2:24:29 PM by randomtroper89

Permission to cut this garbage?

Freedom City Play By Post

• Complete Monster: Since PC villains are no longer allowed, there are no longer any active PCs who fit this trope. Neither do the NPCs, since there is no Joker Immunity in Freedom City. The closest thing the setting has is Omega, Lord of the Terminus.
  • Back in the day, Belphegor fit this trope rather well. He tortured to death a family (a high school-age boy, his mother, and her father), just so he could make their house available and buy it for cheap for use as his storefront. Far worse than that, though, was when he used mind emotion control to manipulate a man into A) diving headlong back into the alcoholism that had caused him to lose his job as a pilot and his first wife, B) beating his fiancee's baby son (from a previous marriage) to death, C) beating his fiancee to death (while simultaneously making her feel a confusing mix of icy terror and mad love for him), then D) left him to wallow in drunken despair while the cops hauled him off, all because he would not shut up while on a flight they'd shared three months earlier, talking about how good his life was now that he'd found a reason, a loving girlfriend and her baby son, to pull himself out of his alcoholism.
  • Ronin abducted a 10-year-old boy from his foster home, spent seven years putting the kid through Training from Hell, and turned the boy into the sociopath Razorwing. Then, after Ronin had used him for his own ends, Ronin double-crossed him, beat him almost to death, and left him to take the fall. The only silver lining to this dark cloud was that the betrayal fueled Razorwing's Heel–Face Turn.

Here's a writeup for Yuga from The Legend Of Zelda A Link Between Worlds:

• The Legend Of Zelda:
  • Yuga starts off as The Dragon to Princess Hilda of Lorule, working with her to capture Hyrule's Sages to revive Ganon so the Triforce of Power can be returned to the mortal plane. He also imprisons several soldiers around Hyrule Castle...leaving them to be washed off and killed by their fellows who think its graffiti. Yuga and Ganon merge and mercilessly attacks Link only to be stopped by Hilda who sets him off to free the Sages. After all the Sages are freed, Link gains the Triforce of Courage. After wearing Yuga down, he then betrays Hilda, puts her in a Fate Worse than Death in a painting and then merges with her to get her stolen Triforce of Wisdom. Yuga reveals himself that he didn't care about restoring Lorule at all: all he wanted was to reshape it in his own image. He even tries to cause Lorule's destruction at the end for that purpose with only Link standing in his way to stop him.

edited 3rd Jan '14 2:18:51 PM by SuperSaiyaMan

Here's a writeup for Gyokuen from Magi Labyrinth Of Magic:

• Empress Gyokuen of the Kou Empire in Magi: Labyrinth of Magic appears to be a sweet, caring and gentle mother. The truth is far different. Gyokuen is a member of Al-Tharmen, and is one of its oldest and most powerful members. To achieve the throne, Gyokuen married the Emperor and bore him four children. She later had her husband murdered, along with two of her sons, with her youngest, Hakuryuu, barely surviving. When he asked Gyokuen if she was really behind it, Gyokuen asked him what he would do if it was and taunted him over how powerless and unable to strike back he was. She also offed her second husband in a thoroughly disgusting fashion for no reason other than that he stood between her and the throne. During the Magnostadt arc, Gyokuen takes the initiative in fighting the heroes with her forces, revealing herself as a former Magi of King Solomon, who she betrayed for Al-Tharmen. After summarily deciding the world is a 'failure', Gyokuen uses the lives of others to summon the 'Father' of Al-Tharmen to devour magic from the world and let it die in darkness.

and one for Herzgo Alegni, from The Legend of Drizzt:

• Herzgo Alegni: Unlike most of the relatively few rapists in the forgotten realms setting, Alegni likes preying on kids. At one point, he and his warband raided a village, killing all the men and taking possession of the women. Alegni took a woman hostage to force her ten year old daughter, Dahlia, to let him rape her. When he was finished, he had his men hold Dahlia upside down to make her more likely to get pregnant before he broke the mother's neck for fun. This is how we're introduced to the scumbag. He also uses a powerful magical sword to enslave Artemis Entreri (a former villain who had undergone a Heel–Face Turn and just wanted to be left alone) as his personal assassin, and used the sword to stab pain directly into Entreri's soul whenever he was pissed or just plain bored. He also commits murder for the pettiest of reasons, like, say, somebody naming a bridge after somebody else besides him, even though he had nothing to do with the bridge's construction.

edited 3rd Jan '14 2:51:51 PM by Erivale

@ Rulez: The Hell is that? It's not even an entry; it just soundly like bitching about how player characters can't qualify anymore. Yank it.

@20429: Entries look good, however, "he" needs to be capitalized in the "he just felt like it" sentence in Bai Lian's entry the sentence.

@20430: I'll vote yes for Herzgo.

@20435: Agree on cutting Wolcott.

@20440: For Zeus from Supernatural, I really don't think he counts. Yes the degree to which he tortures Prometheus and is willing to torture Prometheus's son, puts him well beyond the Moral Event Horizon, but I don't believe he's heinous enough to count in the setting. Zeus is a very powerful pagan god in the setting, but despite his power level he never attempts to do anything outside of get revenge on one man by hurting said man, and the man's son. He confines himself to tormenting two people, when other villains with less resources have done worse. For example, one episode featured a human man turned ghost who was a Serial Killer in life, continued being a killer in death, trapped the ghosts of his victims in his domain, then "fed" on them when they displeased him. He was just a regular schmuck who turned into one of the lowest ranking supernatural creatures in the setting and he still did worse than Zeus. Other villains also did worse, like the ghost of HH Holmes who trapped girls in his murder house hotel underground, or the human family of Serial Killers the Benders who hunted people for fun. Hell, Gabriel, the Trickster, used his powers to make Dean die and comeback to life hundreds of times just to force Sam to experience everyone of them. And Gabriel's eventually treated as a "good guy." I just think Zeus could've been a lot more heinous with what he had at his disposal, but he settled for just hurting two people while villains that had less accomplished worse. Also I think it's too ambiguous whether Zeus cares for Artemis and the other Greek gods, as he wants revenge on Prometheus for all of their downfalls.

As for Boyd Langton from Dollhouse, I'm also going to have to vote no. I just think there's too much ambiguity surrounding the character following The Reveal of him as the Big Bad. Namely, I don't think his Affably Evil personality is faked, and I don't think his "love" for his "family" is faked either. Whether or not these are fake is particularly hard to decipher since Word of God was that originally Boyd was planned on being just what he seemed to be: a white hat among the Dollhouse staff who didn't like the moral ambiguity surrounding his job and genuinely cared for others, particularly his charge, Echo. Him being the Big Bad was decided while making season two... seemingly just for the sake of a twist. Yay, quality writing! Anyway, this definitely muddies the waters surrounding whether either his affability or his love for the main cast is genuine. Boyd encourages both Topher's and Adelle's Character Development even when it's against his own best interests. He helps Topher be more moral, ironically. Particularly, he helps Topher in the episode "Belonging", which involves Topher uncovering Sierra's past and dealing with the man, Nolan, who had her locked away in the dollhouse. When they kill Nolan, Boyd helps them both by covering up the murder. Boyd even lists Topher's moral growth as one of the reasons why he's proud of Topher. Boyd also encouraged Adelle to grow stronger and fight through the difficulties she was experiencing, helping her get out of her funk when the Rossum Corporation was undermining her. Ultimately, Boyd didn't need Adelle or Topher, but he brought them along anyway because he wanted to "save them" for the impending fall of society.

As for Echo, Boyd definitely seems to care for her in a way that exceeds the interest one would have in, say, an interesting science experiment. For example, in "The Target" Boyd risked his life to save Echo's and nearly died because of it. The episode's end had him putting his trust in her as she blindly trusted him while imprinted. He really seemed to care for her as a person, which was supposed to make his and her confrontation in the penultimate episode all the more tragic. He eventually decides he doesn't need Echo alive for his purposes, but that's only after she keeps refusing his offers and trying to foil his plans. When she tells him she used to love him, he looks genuinely remorseful and sadly says, "I know" just before trying to shoot her.

Boyd is portrayed as being deeply delusional in not understanding why his "family" doesn't understand his actions. His plan to use the imprinting technology to mindwipe the world isn't purely for power. It's because he's fatalistically convinced that, because the mind-wiping technology exists it will happen eventually. All that matters is how the event happens, and he plans on making it happen on his own terms with the people he cares about safe from it's fallout. He proves to be right, as the Bad Future series finale shows that the apocalypse has happened even without him and that the world powers are used the technology for their own benefits. Boyd's death, being turned into a doll and used as a suicide bomber to destroy the Rossum technology, is also portrayed as an Alas, Poor Villain.

Due to all these factors, I really think Boyd is too ambiguous to count for this trope. Though I do think that Nolan counts, and that there are other possible keepers from the series, such as the pedophile kidnapper from the pilot and maybe Terry, the Psychopathic Manchild Serial Killer, from the second season.

@20453: Air Jay sounds like he counts.

@20454: Permission granted.

@20455: Looks good.

@20456: Entries look good to me.

edited 3rd Jan '14 2:51:44 PM by OccasionalExister

In light of what Exister said about Boyd, I'm gonna have to take down my vote For.

Yuga qualifies? Didn't we cut Ghirahim despite him having a similar modus operandi to Yuga? Also could we qualify Ganondorf from OOT if we count his Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker incarnations as different? From what I gather, Ganondorf only doesn't qualify due to Retcon. We kept Tigerstar and Scourge from the original Warrior Cats series despite gaining redeeming qualities in the later books.

Also Juan Corrida and Turner Grey are called possible Complete Monsters in Alternate Character Interpretation in the YMMV for Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney. As assholish as they are, I don't think either of them are Complete Monsters. In addition, Manfred is missing from the YMMV Ace Attorney page. Someone probably cut his example because it was like Phantoms.

I added Phantom and Kristoph's Monster.Ace Attorney examples to the YMMV page complete with spoilers over their names. Should I replace Dahlia and Matt too?

edited 3rd Jan '14 4:21:00 PM by Klavice

I'd say that you could replace those two Ace Attorney examples.

I'm probably the one who cut the Ace Attorney examples and linked the the Monster subpage. If you wanna add the entries back...sure why not.

EDIT: Well, I re-added all the Ace Attorney entries (and performed a little cleanup and Phantom and Gavin for grammatical purposes).

edited 3rd Jan '14 3:21:08 PM by ACW