Not Thriving: Loud Last Name

Loud Last Name seems to be a specific split of Say My Name where a character is angry at another character and loudly says their last name. It may have originated as a sister trope to First-Name Ultimatum as there is history in the description of it originally being named Last Name Ultimatum — although it's unclear why its name was changed.

The page dates back to 2011, yet it only has 34 wicks (with 3 more at Last Name Ultimatum), of which 25 are non-index, so it's starving. The description is extremely barebones, and the on-page examples suffer the same ZCE "lets write the character's name in all caps" misuse as Say My Name. The wicks are either the trope potholed into a name or ZCE a la "X does this", with only 4 correct examples. It's not clear why this one failed when both First-Name Ultimatum and Full-Name Ultimatum are thriving, both of which were created before LLN.

Suggestions:

• Cut (exclusive with 2 and 3)
• Rebuild the trope from the ground up (exclusive with 1, not 3)
• Send to the TLP for example farming and expanding (exclusive with 1, not 2)

Whatever is done with this trope will probably set precedent for the other name saying tropes (Say My Name, First-Name Ultimatum, and Full-Name Ultimatum) because while they may be thriving, it is highly likely they suffer similar ZCE/Pothole issues and will also be brought in eventually.

Opening

I'd say cut. Note that I don't want to make this seem like I have any big problems with this "genre" of trope in general — but I don't think that "saying a last name angrily" is a meaningful concept.

Cut. This is redundant with two of the the three tropes listed at the end of the opening post (First-Name Ultimatum being the exception due to the two being mutually exclusive), and any non-zero-context examples would probably fit at least one of those.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 18th 2022 at 9:34:32 AM

It we cut, I think merging the correct examples to Say My Name would probably be best since they only call the last name, since the other two have a requirement (first name and full legal name).

Cut and move examples to Say My Name.

Yeah, I agree with moving salvageable examples to Say My Name.

Regarding whether this sets a precedent, I feel like First-Name Ultimatum is more likely to be redundant with Say My Name than Full-Name Ultimatum, since Full-Name Ultimatum is more common, particularly in the context of parents angrily saying their kid's full name when the kid does something wrong. In addition, Full-Name Ultimatum has significantly more wicks, and First-Name Ultimatum's on-page examples has some ZCEs (plus one example that includes a character's last name and is thus probably a shoehorn), and it seems to be more about a character's first name being said rather than any kind of ultimatum (in contrast to how the type of example I gave for Full-Name Ultimatum does involve an ultimatum).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 18th 2022 at 10:22:20 AM

Cut. Note that it has Last Name Ultimatum as redirect.

Conceptually, it seems different from Say My Name, but the examples don't show it. Maybe the other two Ultimatum tropes need something, but I'd wait for their own thread.

The Last Name Ultimatum redirect is why First-Name Ultimatum and Full-Name Ultimatum were brought up regarding Loud Last Name potentially setting a precedent, but either way, the two that have "Ultimatum" in their main name instead of a redirect would need wick checks since they have three-digit wick counts, as opposed to how this thread's subject is wick-starved.

Cut!

Well, I'm glad I did a wick check then... we can recover the "correct" examples when the time comes.

E: Wait, didn't they just get suspended? Maybe this can be brought up with them there?

Edited by Hello83433 on Sep 20th 2022 at 3:40:22 PM

Nope, diff tropers.

Similar names, but randomtroper89 is not suspended as far as I'm aware (though they were suspended in the past for unilateral trope changes)

No, that was Random Troper 123 who got suspended.

Oh, whoops. Yeah, those are really similar names.

To get sorta back on topic, since it doesn't appear there's much to discuss on LLN's front, do others think that similar reasoning applies to First-Name Ultimatum (that it's redundant with Say My Name)? Not that we can do anything about that in this thread, but maybe this will generate some thoughts that can be penned for later.

Isn't that more like Full-Name Ultimatum?

So...crowner?

I don't think we have enough votes to make a decision so maybe. I need a list of options though.

I think we could do a single-prop on cutting and merging with Say My Name.

I think cutting the page and merging examples is the best idea. I noticed at least three examples are from old tv shows (Hogans Heroes, Gomer Pyle USMC, and Gilligans Island) which may or may not have to do with the starved condition of wicks. Maybe it's not such a funny thing anymore?