During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
I'm referring to Polar's points on his sadism and inflated ego... I mean, like I said, I clearly don't recall the film so feel free to propose him if you think he's a crossover. I'll probably rewatch it at some point and vote accordingly.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I forget, lemme check
Edited by 43110 on Sep 15th 2018 at 5:30:36 AM
Goku Black
I genuinely like goldfinger and he's up there with Terry Salvas blofeld, Scaramanga, Alec Travelyen and silvia as my all time favorite bond badguy but uh he's probably too full of himself to count.
I mean do an ep as I am genuinely interested and he might make it but Im not sure.
E Di T: Didnt we decide to cut arrow Ras al ghul. Was that ever done.
Edited by miraculous on Sep 15th 2018 at 2:22:50 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I'll put in a yes to Richter and Gant as well as the other villain Lightysnake proposed. Ace Attorney has very few Affably Evil villains and pretty much the ones that were proposed are the only ones I could see counting.
Looking back on Minish Cap, Vaati reeks of Smug Snake given he spends most of the game taunting Ezlo and Link.
I think Zelda is fine with just Ganon as an example. But I might read up more on Flame of Recca and propose Kurei if he hasn't been proposed yet as I distinctly remember from both the short lived anime and the manga that he played with the heroes quite a bit out of jealousy for Recca being the chosen one out of his father and he was an outcast. There's just so much to like about Kurei, especially given he's a Char Clone and very polite for unwilling The Dragon to Mori.
Should I just write what I know from memory? I've only read up to the arc past the Tournament Arc. I think he has enough to qualify just from memory.
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Please be brushed up on everything he appears in so we can have a fair and comprehensive EP. Also, I forgot about Ra's and just requested he be purged from locked and have taken care of the YMMV entry.
gimme a bit requested
Edited by 43110 on Sep 15th 2018 at 7:16:02 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
What about Marcus from Pokemon since he was also voted to get cut?
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 14th 2018 at 11:38:27 PM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tian and Gant
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yes to all of the candidates that I missed since last post. Anyways, here's Katz belated writeup:
Totally Spies!: Kyle Katz is a thief who was unable to be captured by WOOHP after several successful several jewelry heists he performed across the world. Targeting to steal the Uzbekistan Pearl for his next heist, Katz then seduce the three spies that was sent to stop him with his manly charm to the point that he could easily stole the key to the vault that contains the jewelry. When the spies entered the vault, Katz took the pearl and then locks the girl in the vault while he escaped. Although being caught and defeated in the end, Katz still keeps his manly charm to the point he threw the rose to the road so that the three spies could get it. Despite one time appearance, Katz remains one of the most compelling enemies that the girls had faced in the series.
Send this to the drafts and you know the drill as always mayne!
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Actually looking back, I read the entire manga, so I think I can give him a fair EP.
Who is Kurei?
Kurei Mori is the adopted son of Kouran Mori and Tsukino Mori. His face was horribly burned by his adopted father for betraying him, thus making him wear a mask. He was originally a cursed child in Feudal Japan and The Unfavorite to his brother Recca, by his father and Clan. In his past he was horribly abused by the children of the village sans Recca, exiled from his village for his curse with his birth mother who ended up ordering him to kill Recca. Kurei ultimately held back but sadly, his entire village including his birth father and mother were burned to the ground. Kurei swore vengeance on Nobunaga (The emperor of Japan at the time and responsible for the arson) at the tender age of five. When Kurei travels to the future after finding out Recca escaped, he is adopted by a kind woman (Tsukino Mori) but her husband Kouran Mori decides to force Kurei to become a ruthless killing machine in order to be (albeit unwilling) Dragon. Kurei masters fire and uses it to commit various atrocities under Kouran's command. Eventually, he meets a girl who came to his mansion named Kurenai and while he originally rejects her attempts to make him mellow out, soon even Mori can see he's been defrosted, and decides to plant a bomb in his own wife and mercilessly kill Kurenai. In Kurenai's dying words, she tells Kurei to repent and not seek vengeance against the boy who essentially stole everything from him. Kurei decides to reluctantly become Mori's enforcer, and leads the Uruha (a team of ruthless killers with some affable types like Raiha (pronounced Lai-ha in the anime) and Joker, might have to propose Joker at one point too as he is an Enigmatic Minion). Anyway, after Kurenai's death, Kurei goes through a Despair Event Horizon and ultimately decides to seal his heart shut. At this point he only obeys Mori to save his foster mother from being killed. Of course later on, we find out that Kurei was the chosen one all along, and the true cursed child was Recca Hanabishi.
What has he done?
Kurei fights using flames just like his brother and is responsible for the conflict in the first half of the story before Kouran Mori gets the Tendo Jigoku madogu which allows him to transform into a monster both literally and figuratively.
If there's one thing Kurei cannot stand and will not tolerate, it's betrayal, given that he was betrayed as a child as was his birth mother. However, he is a very supportive leader to his men (and women, the fact that he took Neon and her sisters in as his maids when she was barely 15 despite having feelings for no other girl aside from Kurenai shows he's very affable to his minions despite a Jerkass Façade.) and while Mori does not tolerate failure, Kurei is perfectly okay with his minions failing. So while he does kill traitors, runs the Underground Death Tournament where people literally fight to the death, or until someone is knocked out (Ura Butou Satsujin) via his adopted father Mori, and oppose Recca and attack females (such as Recca's platonic friend Fuuko Kirisawa) he's ultimately a very nice leader to his men similar to Hank Scorpio and Gant. He even trains young Koganei who is younger than his younger brother in the art of madogu and easily gets him on his side (until he defects to Recca after what he sees his former partner Mokuren doing).
Is he a bastard? Too much of one.
Absolutely he's a bastard, but not too much of one. He burns people without mercy, attacks girls, and commits other atrocities such as attempting to murder the infant Recca to regain his mother's honor. But compared to the likes of Sasuke, he actually keeps good on his promise to stop his men from attacking Recca once Recca defeats him in the Ura Butou Satsujin Tournament Arc. Before that, he takes in people who previously had no one, like his maids led by Neon, Raiha (who's ancestors fled in cowardice while fighting Nobunaga's men) and other Uruha fighters like the orphan Koganei.
He also runs the UBS as Mori's proxy and is the primary antagonist of the first half of Flame of Recca as said before. In the end, he even rids the world of Kouran Mori his own abusive adoptive father and goes back in time to kill Nobunaga and avenge his tribe.
So I would say pass.
Is he charming? A quick thinker?
Kurei is always two steps ahead of the protagonists. The fact he is able to see Team Hokage's (Recca's team and the protagonists) strength long before the flirty Tatsuko (one of Recca's biggest fans and a dragon-human 20 something referee for UBS) and even his minions of the Uruha. He's hired the top assassins in the history of the Uruha to ensure Recca and co's road is not an easy one. Even when his minions try to betray him, he quickly disposes of them either through Recca and friends or himself. He kidnaps Yanagi, Recca's "princess" to bait Recca into coming to one of his castles so he can defeat him and unite the heroes that would go against Kouran Mori. In a sense, he's plotting his own non-lethal downfall as well as Mori's. When Mori is unable to be defeated by Recca, it is Kurei who betrays him and kills him. He's extremely bright and has no qualms about using his brilliance to plot against Recca, while helping them defeat Mori for him. Pass.
Final Thoughts?
I'd say he's a keeper.
Edited by Klavice on Sep 15th 2018 at 9:10:14 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
The wifi here sucks
I'll EP Goldfinger for posterity's sake. he doesn't sound particularly intelligent so I will say no for now.
The Work
Goldfinger is the third Bond film where he's ordered to investigate gold smuggler Auric Goldfinger
What does he do
Goldfinger poses as a businessman, owning Auric Industries in Switzerland and a stud-farm called Auric Stud in Kentucky. He smuggles gold by transporting a car made of gold to where he wants and melting down parts there.
Goldfinger is introduced playing cards, cheating by having Jill Masterson spying on his opponent's cards and telling him what they are through a fake hearing aid. When Bond sabotages the scheme and has sex with Jill he sends Oddjob to knock out bond and kill Jill by painting her body gold, causing skin suffocation.
Bond then plays a golf game against Auric with a bar of Nazi Gold at stake. Goldfinger's attempts at cheating fail again and he has Oddjob threaten by showing how dangerous he is. Bond follows Goldfinger but is captured, with Jill's vengeful sister Tilly being killed by Oddjob in the confusion. Goldfinger then tries to cut Bond in half with a laser and only spares him in order to trick Bond's superiors into thinking that Bond has things well in hand.
In Kentucky Bond watches Auric meet with mafia leaders who have provided him with supplies for "Operation Grand Slam" which he reveals (with heavy theatrics) to be gassing the town surrounding Fort Knox and then breaking in, offering the mafia $10 million after the scheme is finished. Mr. Solo is the only person to back out, taking $1 million dollars in gold. Oddjob shoots him and has the car crushed with the gold and Solo's body inside, the other gangsters are all gassed to death after Solo and Goldfinger leave. Bond is treated to a drink with Auric where Bond realizes that he has no intention of stealing any gold, instead having a nuclear bomb provided by the Chinese government set off in the vault, causing the chaos the Chinese want and raising the value of Goldfinger's gold. Bond seduces Pussy Galore, Goldfinger's pilot and the one in charge of gassing the town and she informs the army and CIA about the plan while also replacing the deadly gas with harmless gas. Goldfinger escapes, leaving Bond handcuffed to the nuke and Oddjob as the last line of defense but Bond manages to stop the nuke and kill Oddjob.
When Bond is flying to have lunch with the President Goldfinger takes over the plane, forcing Galore to fly the plane and holding Bond at gunpoint. Bond fights Goldfinger for the gun, causing it to shoot out the window which Goldfinger is sucked out off.
Thinking on his feet
When the army attacks him at Fort Knox he takes off his jacket revealing that he was Crazy-Prepared enough to wear an army officer's uniform under it, allowing him to kill his ally the Chinese nuclear scientist Mr.Ling as well as several American soldiers before escaping. He manages to hijack the plane Bond was on despite being alone.
Is he too much of a bastard?
He is very full of himself, having an elaborate setup for his reveal of his plan even though he planned to kill the gangsters anyway. But for all the posturing he does he is able to live up to his own ego, with Bond genuinely complimenting his scheme. He even counters Bond's famous snark at one point, and forgoes any theatrics when talking about his scheme with Bond later and lets him figure it out on his own. He's also not so full of himself that he doesn't foresee the idea that his plan would fail as shown by him wearing a military uniform to Fort Knox.
The other problem would be cruelty and a certain degree of pettiness, his plan would kill 60,000 people with the gas, he kills Jill and the mobsters, and tries to cut Bond in half with his laser. He also cheats at cards and golf for relatively small amounts of money. In regards to the cheating Nazi gold is rare and apparently quite coveted, while I can't say much about the card game we don't ever learn what's at stake. Regarding the cruelty, he isn't shown to explicitly enjoy killing Jill, the mobsters or using the gas and treats the first one as a You Have Failed Me moment, the mobsters as increasing his personal profit and removing loose ends, and the last as just a means to an end. When he tries to kill Bond with the laser it was particularly painful because Bond had humiliated him before but he doesn't even plan to stay and watch and was on his way out of the room when Bond tried bluffing.
The Competition
He's more successful than most other Bond villains since he has Bond under his finger throughout almost the whole film, turning him into a borderline Pinball Protagonist. He's also able to counter Bond's trademark wit and remains unimpressed with him, rarely losing his temper unlike other Bond villains. He also averts Bond Villain Stupidity by keeping Bond alive for a specific purpose.
Conclusion
I initially wasn't really sure if he counted but the more I looked into it the more convinced I was. to Auric Goldfinger.
Edited by papyru30 on Sep 15th 2018 at 11:09:27 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
To Kurei and Auric
Yes to Kurei, but I have to abstain to Goldfinger. I think he's too nasty, and without any of the mitigating or likable qualities that defined the other MB characters.
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 16th 2018 at 1:11:33 AM
Yes to Kurei but I'm actually going to say no to Goldfinger. Having just rewatched the film, I'll say I get he looks like one on paper but I found the emphasis of his scheming and ploys to be on how detestable he is and not on his devilish brilliance. I can see others having a differing opinion but that's how I read him.
Also, hey, Sunday! Here's the batch:
- Feng Shen Ji: Tian himself, once known as Hei Long, wiped out the ancient gods when they betrayed him and nearly murdered his beloved wife. Recreating the world, humanity and gods, Tian has humanity enslaved so he may have blood crystals harvested in order to revive Bai Long. Upon Bai Long's imperfect revival, Tian tries to end hostilities via his sheer power, before being betrayed by the evil Shen Yen. Seemingly accepting his death, Tian fakes it and is revealed to have been manipulating everyone so he may judge their worthiness for himself, honoring his vow to spare humanity when hero Ah Gou proves himself to Tian in combat.
- Daredevil: Under Kevin Smith's pen in the story arc Guardian Devil, Quentin Beck, aka Mysterio, is presented as a genius, theatrical puppet master seeking to cement himself in history as a "legitimate" supervillain after a career of being nothing more than a B-lister. Upon being diagnosed with cancer, Mysterio makes it his mission to drive the hero Daredevil to insanity, playing on the man's religious faith by using a combination of manipulation, disguises, and hallucinogenic drugs to make him believe a baby under his care is the Antichrist and needs to be killed. Convincing Daredevil's lover Karen Page she has AIDS, framing his best friend Foggy Nelson for murder, and hiring Bullseye to kidnap the baby and kill anyone in his path (leading to Page's death in Daredevil's arms), Mysterio locks the child in a chamber that will soon suffocate her if Daredevil doesn't go along with the villain's devised 'final act' of his grand plan. In the end, upon realizing he hasn't broken Daredevil, Mysterio gives him the baby back and proceeds to blow his own brains out in a final act of defiance towards both the hero and his own cancer, refusing to be taken down by anyone but his own hand. Despite his otherwise goofy or ineffectual outings, Mysterio here is a brilliant strategist, excellent manipulator, and holds all the charm that a Large Ham skilled in film and theater would possess.
- Dinner Rush (2000): Louis Cropa, a former bookie for organized crime, plots a revenge against the two thugs who murdered his business partner and friend Enrico. Setting them up in his restaurant, Louis arranges their execution very publicly, creating a media sensation over the event and also ensuring that not only can he leave the business to his son, but that the massive publicity over the murders will ensure the restaurant's business is booming for at least the next year.
- Star Trek: Generations: Dr. Tolian Soran was once a peaceful man of the long-lived El-Aurian race whose wife and children were murdered when his planet was invaded and destroyed by the Borg. After gaining access to the Nexus, a dimension of pleasure where he could be reunited with his family, Soran becomes obsessed with getting back into it after he is pulled from it against his will. Realizing that the energy ribbon could only be accessed by altering the gravitational fields around it, Soran designed a star-killing probe to make the Nexus come to him while destroying all other lifeforms in the vicinity. Soran is rescued by the Enterprise after Romulans raid his science station, deceiving the Enterprise crew before kidnapping Geordi LaForge with the help of his Klingon allies, the Duras Sisters. Soran modifies Geordi's visor to make him an unwitting spy which ultimately leads to the ship's destruction, proves himself immune to Picard's attempts to talk him down from his plan, and eventually succeeds at everything he set out to do, embracing the Nexus as it sweeps him up, with only subsequent Time Travel managing to undo it.
- Marvel Cinematic Universe:
- Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: The man once known as Alveus, upon Kree experimentation, was forever transformed into "Hive." Through sheer intellect and force of will, Hive drove the Kree from earth, rallying all The Inhumans to his side in the process, and though banished from earth by treacherous followers, Hive nonetheless laid the groundwork for the formation of HYDRA, the death cult organization that has haunted the world for centuries after. In the present, Hive manipulates himself back to earth with help from Gideon Malick, and immediately amasses a small following of Inhumans. Using Malick before murdering him once he outlives his usefulness, Hive stays one step ahead of S.H.I.E.L.D. throughout the series, even turning Daisy Johnson to his side and using her as a mole. Though driven temporarily insane, Hive is revealed to have exaggerated even this as a plot to be captured then use SHIELD's own devices to enact his final plan of turning a chunk of humanity into Inhumans so as to create a perfect, peaceful paradise. Hive's final moments are spent calmly reflecting that he truly wanted what was best for Inhumans, and dies realizing and admitting that perhaps humanity isn't as deserving of destruction as he once thought.
- Luke Cage: Hernán "Shades" Alvarez is a charismatic criminal of Harlem who during his time at Seagate Penitentiary ran a prison fight ring along with Comanche and a corrupt warden. Upon returning to Harlem, he became the Hyper-Competent Sidekick of the Stokes family, the most powerful crime family in Harlem, brokering deals for the family to gain high tech weaponry. Despite his loyalties, he has no problems turning against his masters when they turn against him, such as when he planned to kill Cottonmouth only to find Mariah Dillard committing the act which Shades helped her coverup by framing Luke Cage and Diamondback for the deed, killing any witnesses in the scenes, and successfully sending Luke back to prison. During that time Shades becomes enamored with Mariah helping her become the leader of her crime family with him as her lover, only to become horrified of her decision to massacre an entire restaurant full of innocents, so much so that he orchestrates her entire downfall by becoming an informant for the police. Always maintaining his cool and suave demeanor, Sades even accepts his final defeat with grace.
- Shaka Zulu: King Shaka Zulu was born into the Zulu tribe to an arrogant prince and a commoner girl. Defending his mother's honor, Shaka and his maternal relatives were expelled, but when Shaka returns as a young man he publically defies his father's wishes for him to become a Zulu warrior, fleeing from his soldiers to instead join the army of the Mhethwa Paramountcy, whose current King he once nursed to health. Shaka singlehandedly revolutionizes tribal warfare, allowing him to utterly annihilate rival tribes, gain revenge on his past enemies, and take over his late father's throne. Shaka manages to use the threat of an enemy tribe to bargain himself into becoming supreme commander, then declares himself King after his patron is unexpectedly assassinated. Shaka also cleverly uses the British expedition to his court for his own ends, using their technology to wipe out an enemy army, and to achieve immortality, or so he believes. He allows Lieutenant Farewell to return to Capetown with Shaka's representatives, but when he realizes that they tricked him he starts plotting revenge while damning the rest of the world after his mother dies. A powerful, dangerous, charismatic ruler, Shaka returns to his court only to Face Death with Dignity, with even his assassins remaining in awe of him after his downfall.
- Batman: Arkham Series: Ra's al Ghul is the "Demon's Head" and leader of the League of Assassins. A centuries-old warlord who got his start buying Gotham City and restructuring it into the criminal-murdering "utopia" Wonder City, Ra's found and used the healing properties of the Lazarus Pit to sustain his life over the years, amassing countless resources and soldiers to his League in the process. In the present, Ra's pulls strings to begin his ideas for a mass-genocide of those he deems "unworthy" to live in his planned perfect world, and finds a concrete scheme when approached by the monstrous Hugo Strange. Fully backing Strange's plan to build a super prison called Arkham City that functions as a nightmarish concentration camp to hold thousands of prisoners until they are all wiped out, Ra's continuously tries to convince Batman to join his crusade, even betraying and murdering Strange due to a preference for Batman as his potential heir. If allowed to die in his final appearance, Ra's uses his last words to proclaim how proud he is of Batman for taking steps towards doing what is 'necessary,' and throughout the franchise holds the utmost respect for the hero no matter what animosity comes between them.
- The Spectacular Spider-Man:
- Green Goblin, Norman Osborn, is the ultimate villain that Spider-Man faces throughout the series. The mastermind behind many of the series' villains, Goblin consistently stays one step ahead of Spidey throughout the series, faking injuries and even death, unleashing various villains and criminals onto him as distractions, and framing his own son as the Goblin all to throw the hero off his scent. Outsmarting all the biggest crime bosses in New York in a fell swoop of manipulation to kickstart a gang war, Goblin moves in and takes control of the city's criminal element before using all his resources in a grand, final attempt at wiping Spider-Man off the map to leave the city for his rule. In his public guise, Osborn builds Oscorp Industries from the ground up, making it into a world-renowned organization, hires Chameleon to masquerade as him to avoid suspicion, and slowly tries to mold his son Harry into becoming a cruel monster like himself. At times a psychopathic, Laughing Mad supervillain, and at others a cold, ruthless businessman, Green Goblin was the most personal and most diabolical villain Spider-Man ever faced, standing in stark contrast to Tombstone's professional brilliance with his own brand of psychotic ingenuity and charm.
- L. Thompson Lincoln, better known as "Tombstone," is the "Big Man" of crime in New York City, running all criminal activities with a flawless, business-like approach. Introduced after sending numerous supercriminals against Spider-Man, Tombstone calmly and charismatically offers to pay Spider-Man to look the other way for some of Tombstone"s activities, and frames the hero as a criminal when he refuses the offer. Displaying numerous moments of honorable qualities, be it helping to locate a bomb at one of his parties at the cost of his own life or even saving the lives of one of his closest henchmen, Tombstone is also an excellent Villain with Good Publicity, convincing the entire city that he is an upstanding, charitable man, despite his monstrous appearance. No situation catches Tombstone off guard for long, as he attempts to be the voice of reason when the Green Goblin starts a gang war, and even publicly assists Spider-Man in dueling numerous villains to keep up his appearance, only to then betray and attempt to murder the man once out of public eye. Unlike most every villain in the series, Tombstone gets off scot-free, easily paying his way out of prison and returning to his former seat of glory, with only surface-level damages to organization.
- Totally Spies!: Kyle Katz is a thief the WOOHP could never catch as he committed countless jewelry heists throughout the world. Targeting the Uzbekistan Pearl, Katz seduces the three spies with his gentlemanly charm and putting the Pearl in his grasp. As the spies enter the vault to stop Katz, he steals the pearl and locks them inside while he makes his escape. Although defeated and caught in the end, Katz never sheds his affability, even throwing the girls a rose. Despite only having one appearance, Katz remains one of the suavest antagonists faced by the spies.
Visual Novels:
- Ace Attorney:
- Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth Gyakuten Kenji 2: The nefarious yet affable Simon Keyes, a circus animal trainer, poses as an innocent defendant while truly manipulating the entire game's events from the shadows. In the first two cases, Keyes sees to it an assassination attempt on the president's body double is foiled; and convinces Miles Edgeworth to go against the Prosecutorial Investigation Committee (PIC) and defend him in court. Intercepting the correspondence between a blind assassin and a friend who had betrayed him, Keyes tricks a woman into killing his former friend. In the fourth case Keyes sets up the Chairman of the PIC to kill an attorney, then have Miles—who has been stripped of his Prosecutor Badge—defend the amnesiac Kay Faraday for the murder. Even when defeated by Miles in the end, Keyes congratulates his Worthy Opponent and ultimately succeeds in "taking care of" all of his own and Dogen's enemies.
- Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Damon Gant, once a legendary police officer, murders a prosecutor to pin the crime on a criminal and ensure his rise to chief of police. Gant also has his old partner installed as the head of the prosecutor's office, having clandestinely framed her sister as the murderer years ago, so he can control both the police and the prosecution, using blackmail on his old partner Lana. When a detective reopens the old case, Gant murders him and has Lana stab the corpse, resulting in her being framed, and Gant knowing she'll plead guilty to protect her sister. Despite his crimes, Gant operates with nothing short of whimsical good nature and accepts his defeat with good humor, claiming that at the end, he can leave the defense of the law to his rivals and one day they will understand the need to rise higher by any means to protect the law as a whole.
- Demonbane: Therion, master of the Black Lodge, is a powerful Sorcerer and the head of the elite Anticross unit. Skillfully manipulating the heroes, Kuro Daijuji and the Hado group, while also bringing Arkham City to its knees, Therion manipulates the rest of Anticross, knowing they intend to turn on and kill him. Playing them and returning from the dead to seize his plans back, Therion reveals his intention is to use Cthulhu himself to shatter the universe and end the cycle of fate he has been bound to before engaging Kuro in a last, epic battle for the fate of reality.
Fanfiction:
- No More Turnabout: The polite and playful Henry Cooldown is the true murderer behind the crime that his twin brother, Travis Touchdown, finds himself framed for. Worried that Travis's relationship with Henry's ex-wife, Sylvia Christel, will lead Travis down to ruin, Henry formulates a plan to make Travis believes Sylvia was the one who framed him for the murder, and lead to the end of their relationship. Henry hires renowned assassin, Shelly de Killer, to attack Diane Heifer at the cemetery and make it seem as if the true crime scene occurred there before having him bring her body to the video store for Henry to murder. Henry then poses as an assistant and bodyguard to Phoenix Wright after saving his life from hitmen who Henry himself hired, and subtly leads Phoenix and Maya to misleading pieces of evidence. Henry successfully manages to put Sylvia under suspicion by having de Killer fake a slip-up about his client's identity. Even after Phoenix discovers that Henry is the murderer, Henry nearly gets away with his crimes by presenting proof of an alibi at the time the murder was though to occur at the cemetery. When finally defeated, Henry accepts defeat with dignity and openly admits to being wrong when he finds out that Sylvia truly cares for his brother.
Since it's quite small I can't emphasize enough how much any last minute additions would be welcome!
Also, once again the pages missing quotes are: MagnificentBastard.Literature, MagnificentBastard.Theatre and MagnificentBastard.Other.
MagnificentBastard.Literature:
"What a pity I am not an honest man!" —Arsène Lupin
Edited by 43110 on Sep 17th 2018 at 11:05:36 AM
Kurei and Goldfinger
Kurei, mild yes to Goldfinger.
I tried scrounging around for the Lit page:
Lupin's is my personal favorite, but what does everyone else think?
Edited by DocSharp on Sep 16th 2018 at 6:55:30 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Goldie
5 in favor of Kurei. Think I'll see if anyone else wants to vote on him maybe wait till 7 unless there is opposition before I start the write-up.
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
V
Goldfinger
Goku Black
Kurei and Uh I'll give a slight yeah to Goldfinger since he's lacking in excessive sadism for the hell of it like other bond badguys and his plan is actually fairly successful. Though I kinda disagree with the idea he's unlikeable, that's not quite true at all.
@a43110: Do me a favour in MagnificentBastard.Live Action TV. For the MCU tree, please flip the order that Hive and shades are arranged. Hive and agents of shield as a show appeared first, so should go at the top with shades at the bottom.
Edited by miraculous on Sep 17th 2018 at 2:37:04 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Writeup time:
- Star Trek: Generations: Dr. Tolian Soran was once a peaceful man of the long-lived El-Aurian race whose wife and children were murdered when his planet was invaded and destroyed by the Borg. After gaining access to the Nexus, a dimension of pleasure where he could be reunited with his family, Soran becomes obsessed with getting back into it after he is pulled from it against his will. Realizing that the energy ribbon could only be accessed by altering the gravitational fields around it, Soran designed a star-killing probe to make the Nexus come to him while destroying all other lifeforms in the vicinity. Soran is rescued by the Enterprise after Romulans raid his science station, deceiving the Enterprise crew before kidnapping Geordi LaForge with the help of his Klingon allies, the Duras Sisters. Soran modifies Geordi's visor to make him an unwitting spy which ultimately leads to the ship's destruction, proves himself immune to Picard's attempts to talk him down from his plan, and eventually succeeds at everything he set out to do, embracing the Nexus as it sweeps him up, with only subsequent Time Travel managing to undo it.
- Shaka Zulu: King Shaka Zulu was born into the Zulu tribe to an arrogant prince and a commoner girl. Defending his mother's honor, Shaka and his maternal relatives were expelled, but when Shaka returns as a young man he publicly defies his father's wishes for him to become a Zulu warrior, fleeing from his soldiers to instead join the army of the Mthethwa Paramountcy, whose current King he once nursed back to health. Shaka singlehandedly revolutionizes tribal warfare, allowing him to utterly annihilate rival tribes, gain revenge on his past enemies, and take over his late father's throne. Shaka manages to use the threat of an enemy tribe to bargain himself into becoming supreme commander, then declares himself King after his patron is unexpectedly assassinated. Shaka also cleverly uses the British expedition to his court for his own ends, using their technology to wipe out an enemy army, and to achieve immortality, or so he believes. He allows Lieutenant Farewell to return to Capetown with Shaka's representatives, but when he realizes that they tricked him he starts plotting revenge while damning the rest of the world after his mother dies. A powerful, dangerous, charismatic ruler, Shaka returns to his court only to Face Death with Dignity, with even his assassins remaining in awe of him after his downfall.
Edited by Morgenthaler on Sep 17th 2018 at 9:19:22 AM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Guys, something the Goldfinger EP is kinda downplaying? He didn't just have Jill killed, he had her killed in a remarkably nasty manner (the gold paint suffocation thing). Nothing indicates Oddjob decided to take on that remarkably specific and ironic manner of murder on his own volition. It seems really spiteful in that case.
Now, writeups:
- Demonbane: Therion, master of the Black Lodge, is a powerful Sorcerer and the head of the elite Anticross unit. Skillfully manipulating the heroes, Kuro Daijuji and the Hado group, while also bringing Arkham City to its knees, Therion manipulates the rest of Anticross, knowing they intend to turn on and kill him. Playing them and returning from the dead to seize his plans back, Therion reveals his intention is to use Cthulhu himself to shatter the universe and end the cycle of fate he has been bound to before engaging Kuro in a last, epic battle for the fate of reality.
- Dinner Rush: Louis Cropa, a former bookie for organized crime, plots a revenge against the two thugs who murdered his business partner and friend Enrico. Setting them up in his restaurant, Louis arranges their execution very publicly, creating a media sensation over the event and also ensuring that not only can he leave the business to his son, but that the massive publicity over the murders will ensure the restaurant's business is booming for at least the next year.
- Feng Shen Ji: Tian himself, once known as Hei Long, wiped out the ancient gods when they betrayed him and nearly murdered his beloved wife. Recreating the world, humanity and gods, Tian has humanity enslaved so he may have blood crystals harvested in order to revive Bai Long. Upon Bai Long's imperfect revival, Tian tries to end hostilities via his sheer power, before being betrayed by the evil Shen Yen. Seemingly accepting his death, Tian fakes it and is revealed to have been manipulating everyone so he may judge their worthiness for himself, honoring his vow to spare humanity when hero Ah Gou proves himself to Tian in combat.
- Ace Attorney: Damon Gant, once a legendary police officer, murders a prosecutor to pin the crime on a criminal and ensure his rise to chief of police. Gant also has his old partner installed as the head of the prosecutor's office, having clandestinely framed her sister as the murderer years ago, so he can control both the police and the prosecution, using blackmail on his old partner Lana. When a detective reopens the old case, Gant murders him and has Lana stab the corpse, resulting in her being framed, and Gant knowing she'll plead guilty to protect her sister. Despite his crimes, Gant operates with nothing short of whimsical good nature and accepts his defeat with good humor, claiming that at the end, he can leave the defense of the law to his rivals and one day they will understand the need to rise higher by any means to protect the law as a whole.
With Lighty there... while I wouldn't be particularly upset if he did go up, I again found the film made him out to be pretty despicable and while there isn't any kind of exceptionalism like there is with CMs, I do find it a mark against him when we already have so many Bond villains up with standards, loved ones, or genuine affability.
purge
Sorry, I have a million of these to do and I'm going to forget stuff here and there. Wait, what? If you're talking about Vanir he's on both the YMMV and on MagnificentBastard.Anime And Manga so I have no idea what this is about?
Edited by 43110 on Sep 17th 2018 at 1:27:41 PM
Goku Black
@43110: I found this weird issue. It seems somone made a MagnificentBastard.Star Wars The Clone Wars page without coming here first as none of these guys have been approved here. I think a few of them might indeed be keepers but this person made it without coming here first.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
yea... I dont think I'm comfortable to vote Goldfinger to be in this thread.
Btw, @43110 Wonder why the entry likes my Konosuba ones didnt ended up in main page but its intact on the YMMV page? Just saying brah 
I feel like an idiot for forgetting that scene. I was already kinda on the fence but flip me to a no on Goldfinger.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
why
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon