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Welcome to the Trope Pantheons thread! Please read the rules:

    Rules 
Rules. The following are not suggestions or tips, but things that have to be followed:
  • When writing a profile, take note of the following:
    • Gods cannot be followers or high priests for obvious reasons. The 'gods' have ascended meaning there is no need for said character to be a follower of another if they have ascended.
    • No hype profiles, please. 'Hype Profiles' are profiles that have been made out of ongoing events and have not been around for a long time. This creates 'hype' due to popularity and certain elements either through certain scenes, memes, dramatic acting or considered overly awesome. They are not bad tropes but building a portfolio solely for that is a bad idea, as they do not say a thing about representing the trope best (unless it's those trope concepts that they are trying to embody for a long time)
      • You can see one if the profile is only showing off how awesome they are or suddenly pushing how 'significant' they are thanks to the just very recent events rather than respecting the longstanding good representations of the trope. And usually having... minimum portfolio or flavor texts and being a bit too generalized or self-contained to events from within their home series instead of interacting with other Pantheon members.
  • When posting in the forum, take note of the following:
    • When you suggest a God, please explain why they fit the trope. Not everyone is going to understand just "X should be the God of Y because they exemplify the trope" off the bat, especially if they're unfamiliar with the work.
    • You must use the Trope Pantheons discussion thread in the forums if you wish to add a new deity, story, something else of importance to the Trope Pantheon canon, or reworking an existing deity (be it simply improving their existing profile or changing their title).
      • For new and reworked deities, 3 [tup] means the profile will have a one week waiting period.
      • For new and reworked deities, 4 [tup] is a 3 day waiting period.
      • 5 [tup] is an automatic ascension for new and reworked deities.
      • Speaking of reworks, for anyone that wants to improve such profiles, they have to review the current trope the character(s) has and see if it still holds up or if there is a better rep for their trope.
    • For adding new Treasures to The Great Treasury or new Dominions to the Dominions, the following rules apply:
      • For new Treasures or Dominions, 3 [tup] is a 3 day waiting period.
      • 4 [tup] is an automatic addition to the Great Treasury or Dominions.
    • Do not repost a profile in the forums more than twice in a day if noticeable changes have not been made in between. If a profile is posted a third time in a row without noticeable alterations, it will be downvoted. This is so spamming of no-effort profiles is less frequent and to prevent tropers from getting aggravated seeing the same profile over and over. The minimum acceptable change has to be a single flavour text.
    • The Pantheon is not a mouthpiece for you to voice your opinions on certain characters. You may like certain characters more than others, but do not make the mistake of making profiles for characters you like look like Character Shilling.
    • Tropers new to the Pantheon are barred from approving or downvoting profiles until they have ascended at least two profiles.
    • Do not include fan reception in any profiles. It has nothing to do with the character themselves and will create unnecessary conflict.
    • Write a detailed explanation on why the character is the best candidate for deity of that trope. If people disagree with you, do not force it on the people.
    • Keep in mind that if you still want to try to find a trope for a particular character, you are only given three chances to find a particular trope for them. If a suggestion goes past three possible tropes, then it will come off as shoehorning a character into the Pantheon just for the sake of that character to be there.
      • On a related note, even if a character does have a free trope being suggested, there is still a limit of three attempts for suggesting that character for that trope. If no one responds to that certain proposal after being posted three times, then it will get to the point where the idea will be seen as being shoehorned into the Pantheon. In addition, the idea needs to be considered acceptable and approved because they are good, not for the sake of pitying others because no one is responding to their idea.
  • When posting Pantheon related stuff to the wiki, take note of the following:
    • Do not put a link to these Pantheon pages into the main wiki page. The moment you want to add in a main Characters page that the character is a God of this trope, do not do it. If you see leftovers of this practice, inform the forum and use the cutlist. This also goes to the Trivia page. The only exception to this rule is if a page in the Pantheon could be confused for a page in Main, like Good Colors, Evil Colors and Good and Evil Colors.
    • Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment ALSO applies here. Do not bring things that would incite fights, even if it is what is currently the hot topic and might be 'urgent'. For example, the political scene and some really bad politicians. We are not here to fight at each other, so don't suggest things that go to that direction, this is a fictional Pantheon after all.
    • To add a Pantheon page for a certain work, 4 or more characters coming from the same series/franchise should be ascended before adding the page. For Creator specific pages, 4 deities coming from the same creator and 2 individual work pages coming from the same creator is the minimum to warrant a page.
    • Do not create a trope page for a story until the story is fully completed.

    Instructions and Tips 
Here are some tips one should keep in mind when editing:

  • Preparing to write:
    • First thing to do before present a profile is to go to the Trope Pantheons discussion thread. In the forums, you must discuss with other users on adding ideas and seek their approval with sound reasoning. You can also get some assistance in the forum thread by either asking for help and those interested asking if they can help. Submissions that are added without discussion are likely to be deleted and those who violate those rules by adding Pantheon content without discussion will get reported to the mods.
    • If you feel the need to remove a character for some reason (poor quality, outdated titles, etcetera) and replace him/her with another or outright rework, please see what the other tropers think about this in the discussion thread before doing anything hasty. Use good reasoning to see if your idea can easily replace the character present without drawing out your statement or giving too ambiguous claims most do not understand.
    • Please be sure to consult others in the discussion about what you want to work before making the profile. This is done to see if your proposal is the best representative and so, in case your profile is turned down, you do not waste time writing something that others might not find suitable.
      • In the same vein, if you adopt a profile from another troper, it is recommended that you make an announcement that you have done so on the discussion thread. More often than not, a trope that was reserved for something was given away to someone else. Check the Related tab on the top of a page to see if a trope or character has been reserved by a user.
    • If, for whatever reason, you are writing about a God who just happens to be a person in real life, just try to be very careful about what you decide to say. Do not try to make the editing seem too meta (self-referential) and use the aformentioned creativity to create hypothetical scenarios towards fictional characters.
  • When writing a profile for a character, here are a few things to note:
    • All deities should be sorted by their divine ranking. Put Overdeities on the top of the page and Quasideities on the bottom. Also be sure to add them in alphabetical order by their first/given name (can be reversed if it is Eastern ordered). For a group, if there is no official name for them all list down all their names by order of relevance or (if too long to list) title them as Insert Name Here Main Characters or some other identifiable title along the same lines.
    • The maximum number of tropes that a god can have is two, but do not try to abuse that fact. If you need to use a second trope to specify a certain thing about their position, that can be excused either because said character represents their trope choice very well alongside the first trope. It is still generally encouraged to only have one trope.
    • A trope can only belong to one profile at a time. The only time two profiles can share a trope is if there are explicit variations listed in the trope page proper (e.g. Muscle Angst is held by both Biscuit Krueger and Chihiro Fujisaki as the former represents "Too Much Muscle" and the latter represents "Not Enough Muscle")
    • If the character you are about to add to a House already exists in another, make sure to mention that this person has spots in other House as well. Up to 2 places can be made for a deity, with the sole exceptions being those at the Main House to highlight those characters’ importance to the Pantheon’s lore.
    • For a character's theme song, try to avoid calling it "Theme of God X" or "Theme of (Show where God X originates from)". If possible, try to find out if the song has an actual name through research. Most importantly, it has to be part their series’ official soundtracks from media. Do not list songs that are made by fans or outside sources. If they were not specifically used as music for that specific character, then they do not count. Furthermore, it has to be a general theme specifically made for that characters’ appearances, not some generic music that plays for many other instances not related to the character in question.
    • For images, when adding an image for your chosen character, it is highly recommended to use a stylized image that embodies the character or renders that also highlights a character’s behavior (such as cool poses). Most images should be from the main adaptations of the character, unless the images from the other media are of a higher quality than the adaptation. Unless it is needed, do not use fanart for images. If you are, please attribute to the original artist. Due to the website’s dark mode, removing white backgrounds from an image is paramount. This website is suggested to do the background removal. If an image you have takes up too much bytes, it is suggestible to use this site to reduce the byte size. If the byte is still too big, put the compressed image to other sites (or even the same one) to compress even further. Use wikias to look for better images, as even wikias for the series might not contain good official images.
    • Creativity is your friend. While it is not recommended to get too ditzy at your ideas, it is best that when writing a profile for a certain character, do you think of capable scenarios between X and Y. Tip: do not use shallow examples (X wields a sword and Y wields one too) and try to think of relationships that makes sense (i.e those characters that are shout-outs for another).
  • Pantheon Content:
    • Some series or genres will eventually have greater representation in the Pantheon than others. This is unavoidable, but a little diversity helps to make you not look like a shill per say. Try to ensure that if you add a deity from a popular series, make sure that it is because they are a good representative for the trope in question, and not just because they are connected to another deity in their respective canon.
      • As far as deities from actual mythologies, there is generally expectation to build the profiles off interactions from fictional portrays rather than basing it entire from the actual myth. Therefore, a mythological deity should be more of a Composite Character whose main identity is from the actual myth.
    • Occasionally there will be Gods that carry a title without a trope. This is not forbidden, but it is well advised not to abuse them. The only house that a tropeless profile are wholly allowed is the House of Food. Mainly due to most food items lacking tropes, and adding tropes about said foodstuffs is slightly unnecessary. However, the character being ascended for their choice of a food, or food-related thing must be a decently good representative of said item. (i.e their Trademark Favorite Food, or something that they are closely associated with In-Universe, or both).
    • For Dominions and Treasures profiles, always consider what made those places/objects popular in the first place. Were they plot-important, identifiable imagery or have a unique aspect of it? Do not just bring regular objects under the basis of following a certain canon.
  • For Profile Standards:
    • Flavor text is used to describe certain things about a character, place or object. To avoid short ones, it is recommended to write flavor text with 4-7 sentences that can fill around 2 lines each. Be warned that adding too many sentences does not equal good flavor text as it is not an essay of sorts (unless words are substantial and do add to the overall line).
    • Character Profiles of a certain person should have the following:
      • A portfolio that contains at least 7 (at the minimum) tropes describing their character.
      • Flavor text count for a deity profile should have by minimum, 10 (depending if the character in question has enough relationships/characterization) to 15 with a maximum of 20-25 for an individual profile.
      • On the other hand, group profiles (profiles of a group that has 4 or more members) have their maximum flavor text count to 15 minimum, giving individual lines for the other members of the group (unless the members are not as characterized) up to 30 at max.
    • Dominion profiles of a certain place should have the following:
      • A portfolio that contains at least 5 (at the minimum) tropes describing the context of the place.
      • Flavor text count should range at least 10 to 15.
    • Treasure profiles (inanimate objects without a trope) should have the following:
      • A portfolio that contains at least 6 (at the minimum) tropes that describes the object itself.
      • Flavor text count should be at least 7 flavor text up to 12 to constitute a treasure profile.

    Divine Ranking System 
  • Overdeity: Omnipotent-level Reality Warpers capable of manipulating the entire universe (or at least the world) at will. Within their own universe they are believed to be omnipotent, or at least impossible-to-completely-destroy embodiments or concepts.
  • Greater Gods: High-level Reality Warpers and that are extremely powerful (capable of destroying or changing anywhere from a large city to a planet at will) and very strong non-reality warpers capable of doing the same thing.
  • Intermediate Gods: Deities at this level are capable of strong but specialized powers such as hydrokinesis, pyrokinesis, etc. without major drawbacks and low level Reality Warpers capable of affecting their immediate area at will.
  • Lesser Gods: Capable of highly specific or little power on their own, or suffer from Power at a Price. However, they may be able to ruthlessly exploit their power or combine it with just being badass enough to make up for it.
  • Demigods: Basically the Badass Normals of the pantheon, making up for their lack of abilities with strength, strategy, and/or planning.
  • Quasideities: Any otherwise normal human, human equivalent, or below without any special powers or training will fall here.

    Templates 
Template for adding a new deity:

God X, God/dess of (Insert Trope Here) (Alternate names/Nicknames, Fan Nickname)

  • An image, if possible. Please use official art or a screenshot for a picture.
  • Rank: This can range from Quasideity, Demigod, Lesser God, Intermediate God, Greater God, to Overdeity, based on representation of power mentioned above.
  • Symbol: An image or icon used to represent the deity.
  • Theme Song: Official song (in other words, no fan music, regardless of quality) that usually is used in affiliation with the character. If the deity is a musician this will most likely be their Signature Song. If possible, give a link for reference, preferably on either a website like Soundcloud or YouTube.
  • Alignment: Good, evil, neutral etc. Forget about The Great Character Alignment Debate here, the Pantheon is one of the few places where you can assign Dungeons & Dragons alignment to characters that don't have alignment system. After all, the Pantheon is based on D&D and is made for fun.
  • For Pokémon deities only:
    • Gender: Defines the gender of the Pokémon; if genderless, it instead defines what gender they identify as.
    • Ability: Provides the Pokémon's ability. If they can Mega Evolve, the new ability is listed as well.
    • Moves: Defines the four moves used by a Pokémon. A Z-Move may also be listed.
  • Portfolio: Tropes associated with the character.
  • Domains: Things that the character has influence over.
  • Herald: Non-ascended loyal character that is from the same series as the ascended character.
  • High Priest: Non-ascended like heralds, but not from the same series, and can serve as a worthy replacement in case something would happen. They can be served as part-time workers in case the originals are busy with some jobs. Co-Godhood is accepted depending on the approval of the originals, usually if the co-deity is from the same series.
  • Followers: Non-ascended characters that are not part of the Pantheon, but would probably worship this character by the fact that they share the ascended character's trope.
  • Relationships between ascended characters go here with your chosen character, it goes something like this:
    • Allies: Members of the Pantheon that are allies, those that share the same values as them and would theoretically be friends with them.
    • Rivals: Members of the Pantheon that are rivals, people who may look at your character with suspicion or a challenge.
    • Enemies: Members of the Pantheon that are foes, those who would see your chosen character as a threat, either on their pespective or yours.
    • Additional Character Relationships: Members of the Pantheon that do not fit in various relationships (examples include Enemy Mine, Vitriolic Best Buds, Teeth-Clenched Teamwork, Headbutting Heroes, Friendly Enemy, Friendly Rival, Just Friends, etc.), allies, rivals, or enemies.
    • Partner: Defines a partnership with an ascended deity and Mon-type. (if any)
    • Feared by/Fears: A deity whom the members of the Pantheon notably fear or are feared by.
    • Respected by/Respects: A deity whom the members of the Pantheon respect or are respected by.
    • Opposed by/Opposes: Not necessarily the same as "Enemies", but this is used for any deity whom the members of the Pantheon directly opposes or is opposed by (basically the opposite of "Respects") terms of certain viewpoints, regardless of alignment.
    • Pitied by/Pities: A deity whom the members of the Pantheon feel pity for or are found pitiable by.
    • Conflicting Opinion: Sometimes, the Deities argue over specific themes and philosophies.
  • Add the Intro. The intro is made up of two trivia, the Ascension Text (or just the Ascension) and The Bio. Both are necessary, but which order you use for them may vary depending on the profile in question. It may be better for one profile to have The Bio first and the Ascension second or vice-versa, although for the most part the order is irrelevant:
    • The Ascension Text: This the story of how the character got into the Pantheon and/or was ascended. There are many ways for this to happen. They may be tricked into it or have simply wandered into the Pantheon, they may have had an already ascended character bring them in, they may already be in the Pantheon (via being another deity's Herald or sharing a trope) and got "promoted", or some combination of the above. Anything is possible in the Pantheon, so use your imagination, but try to incorporate their trope into the story, if possible.
    • The Bio: A brief synopsis on the character's backstory. No need for the character's entire life/production history, but just give enough that those who don't know the character can get an idea of how the character works.
  • Now add some random trivia/facts about events/alignments/moments/fights/friendships/relations etc.
  • And some more trivia/facts.
  • And a couple of more.
    • Note: Standard amount of flavor text for Deities/Characters is 10-15 (15-20 for group profiles) at minimum to 20-25 (30 for group profiles) at maximum.

Template for Dominions profiles:

Place X, Place of (Insert Trope Here) (Alternate names/Nicknames, Fan Nickname)

  • An image, if possible. Please use official art or a screenshot for a picture.
  • Theme Song (Optional): Not important as compared to Deity and Dominion profiles but a notable mention if there is an accompanying song in use with the object.
  • Alignment: Refers to the dominion's role in their story, be it those used by villains or used by the Player Character.
  • Portfolio: Tropes associated with the dominion.
  • Domains: Things that the place has links to.
  • Relationships (Optional): Unless the location has a connection with a specific deity, relationships are optional and may not be required. However, if there are deities linked to the same series as where the dominion is linked to, note them using the relationships, this includes deities that theoretically have interest with said dominion, good or evil otherwise.
  • Add the Intro. Here the introduction of the Dominion is added with some tidbits regarding the origins of its' creation and usage in the story. You can also add what made it popular/iconic/important here.
  • Now add some random trivia/facts about events/alignments/moments/fights/friendships/relations etc.
  • And some more trivia/facts.
  • And a couple of more.
    • Note: Standard amount of flavor text for Dominions is 10 at minimum to 15 at maximum.

Template for Treasure profiles:

The name of the item in here (Alternate names/Nicknames, Fan Nickname)

  • An image, if possible. Please use official art or a screenshot for a picture.
  • Appearance: A shortened description of the item's looks with some notable features also mentioned.
  • Class: Refer to the Treasure Classification System in the Great Treasury.
  • Alignment: Refers to the objects' role in their story, be it those used by villains or used by the Player Character.
  • Theme Song (Optional): Not important as compared to Deity and Dominion profiles but a notable mention if there is an accompanying song in use with the object.
  • Museum Check: A note that says whether the item is viewable by the public.
  • Portfolio: Tropes associated with the item.
  • Domains: Things that the item has links to.
  • Relationships (Optional): Unless the item has a connection with a specific deity, relationships are optional and may not be required. However, if there are deities linked to the same series as where the item is linked to (especially the original owner of the item), note them using the relationships, this includes deities that theoretically have interest with said object, good or evil otherwise.
  • Add the Intro. Here the introduction of the Treasure is added with some tidbits regarding the origins of its' creation and usage in the story. You can also add what made it popular/iconic/important here.
  • Now add some random trivia/facts about events/alignments/moments/fights/friendships/relations etc.
  • And some more trivia/facts.
  • And a couple of more.
    • Note: Standard amount of flavor text for Treasures is 7 at minimum to 12 at maximum.

Edited by Willbyr on May 24th 2021 at 7:52:09 AM

FergardStratoavis Lizard Metabolism from Ye Olde Worlde (Less Newbie) Relationship Status: Cast away
Lizard Metabolism
#1876: Jul 17th 2014 at 12:43:03 AM

Hm.

I think it shouldn't be working in reverse. Bad guy trope is still a trope unless it warrants kicking someone to Disgraces. You can be plenty memetic even if you're a scumbag, right?

In general I think we should measure deity's power in three steps:

  • What's the raw power of a deity in canon? A current deity ranking system can work for this point.
  • How memetic are they? This is likely up to one's subjective opinion.
  • Do they have any role in the Pantheon or featured somehow in Pantheon Tales? If so, did they do something extraordinary?

That's merely an idea, 'course, up to reviewing and so.

Also, changing the topic a bit, how's JP's portfolio from earlier?

How do lizards fly?
MosquitoMan Giraffe Choreographer from Over here Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Giraffe Choreographer
#1877: Jul 17th 2014 at 1:53:15 AM

So does this mean we've got things sorted out?

"AXEL ON STAAAAGE!"
ChrisX ..... from ..... Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Singularity
.....
#1878: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:14:26 AM

@Fergard: Really cannot comment, but as far as the requirements, it's good.

@Mosquito: This is going to take a very long time. We should arrange a council to decide this, and then discuss maybe via PM.

That being said, I dunno if you would think of this proper, but I thought that there's one God candidate that may be good. I thought we elevated Gustave as the God of Crocodiles because we literally couldn't find anything else. As a matter of fact, I think I've found one God that could serve as a Croc God.

And that is... Sobek.

Gustave may be just one croc, but I think Sobek has ruled over not just his domain river of Nile, but nearly all Crocodiles present.

If we go by Smite, he's pretty pissed that people has been using his crocs for making hand bags within his taunts, and his Ultimate pretty much had him summon a crocodile-infested pool for CC, delayed massive damage and mana restoration, Gustave may as well be one of those crocs summoned. Crocodiles are most known in its danger with its tight grip on its bite, and then followed with a death cradle. This is also pretty translated with Sobek's high crowd control capabilities. On other tidbits, who is it that Renekton's (currently listed as Gustave's follower) design is based on? Sobek (I suppose the original one).

I think this way, we could have a God of Crocs that can have a mind to think, rather than making them just beastly, so I thought Sobek can be a good candidate to enter the Pantheon. There's one problem, though, the stable 'Deep Blue Trio', in which Gustave is a part of, along with Jaws/Bruce (Shark) and Kraken (Giant Octopus). What would happen to the group if Sobek came in in Gustave's stead?

What do you think?

HotmanX32 Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#1879: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:35:09 AM

I can't say much about Sobek since I don't know anything about him.

The stats which determines a Deity's rank may be...

  • Combat Prowess
  • Super or Magicial Powers
  • Feats
  • Charisma/Influence
  • Number of allies (this one may be irrelavent.)
  • Franchise popualarity as Magnum12 has brought up numerous times.

Trope Pantheon Story site
TPPR10 Shocking Gun! from out of nowhere Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Shocking Gun!
#1880: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:44:38 AM

You know, I never imagined that we would end up making ranking gods actualy harder than it actually is. Whenever I rank some gods, I always do it base on their canon power levels: Its simple, clear and doesn't require bunch of complex thinking and comparisons. I'd rather try to figure out their relation statuses than have to think about their rankings because they are so many factors, some which can be hard to fathom (like, how popular would Touhou be considered?)

edited 17th Jul '14 8:47:09 AM by TPPR10

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!
HotmanX32 Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#1881: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:58:15 AM

[up] Doing it based on their canon power levels would be a much simpler idea.

Trope Pantheon Story site
GM_3826 (Not) A Game Master from Ylisse Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
(Not) A Game Master
#1882: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:31:23 AM

The main problem is, it makes certain influential figures seem less influential than they really are.

TPPR10 Shocking Gun! from out of nowhere Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Shocking Gun!
#1883: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:36:47 AM

And having to many factors would possibly cause higher positions can become more common, as such making them look less impressive and less important.

edited 17th Jul '14 9:37:13 AM by TPPR10

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!
DonaldthePotholer from Miami's In-State Rival Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Married to the job
#1884: Jul 17th 2014 at 10:02:18 AM

TPPR & Fergald: For the most part, Fergald is correct, negative reactions are still reactions. Some, of course, are enough to be put into The Fallen or Disgraces, but some are just bad luck/lost causes.

However, cases where the entire portfolio for the relevant office is Fanon,note  e.g. the case of Hong Meiling, are automatically suspect. They may still be examples, but if there's a work that has e.g. a Butt-Monkey demonstrated onscreen, then she may have to surrender her title to the canonical Butt Monkey.

As an example, I am going to recommend a title addition for Ash Ketchum. His only office currently is god of Gotta Buy Them All. Based on Word of God saying that Ash is always 10, I'm going to recommend that the following title be granted to him: The Eternal Ten Year Old Despite Continuity. Fanon actually held a Webcomic Time viewpoint placing him as a teenager in Unova and Kalos.note 

TPPR: Then what of Batman? Going by Super Weight alone, he's a 1, possibly a 2, corresponding to Demigod. Conversely, however, this would justify the gods of Exalted being Greaters and Overdieties, while the "Influence" of their work strikes me as less than that of Higurashi. Under my system, the relatively low Influence Nerfs them down to Intermediate. (G ∝ I * (W+M)) EDIT: This bit was written before I discovered the Kickstarter event of 9 May 2013, so perhaps they became entrenched enough to get the requisite influence to maintain the "Greater" level. The formula strikes me as valid; the problem is I may be using false values for the variables.

EDIT: [up] Well we could always shift the "boundaries" of Over vs Greater, Greater vs Intermediate, and Intermediate vs Lesser. I mean, it's not like I've defined what the proportion actually is, not do I intend to. All that needs to be known is that there is a proportion and how it works with the relative terms (Super Weight, Memetic Power, and the reach of their fame.)

edited 17th Jul '14 10:22:28 AM by DonaldthePotholer

Ketchum's corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced tactic is indistinguishable from blind luck.
TPPR10 Shocking Gun! from out of nowhere Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Shocking Gun!
#1885: Jul 17th 2014 at 10:16:44 AM

I was actually going to bring up Ash Ketchum when I brought up negative memetic statuses regarding Memetic Loser. Because yes, Ash has his faults, but if you were to just go from what fans say, you think he would have anything good about him. Which is not the case. A really recent Memetic Loser case would be Chrom due of Super Smash Bros.. So the question is should these things butcher X character down, because the way fandom likes to portray characters? Like, even if there is some basics in canon, and then fandom exaggerates these things?

Honestly, I am getting bit tired of talking about this subject, so I really have nothing to say about the rest of your comment.

edited 17th Jul '14 10:23:04 AM by TPPR10

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!
magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#1886: Jul 17th 2014 at 10:30:08 AM

I think we may need a council based on expertise with various works. With more people, we have expert knowledge of more works thus can vote power ranks with high accuracy.

As far as influence goes, Higurashi is at the very least "medium" class (I think the one above genre) due to its flag ship status for the Visual Novel medium. Also has genre influence for being a flag ship Japanese horror/modern mystery series. It may have also bled into culture class given how the work has managed to influence real world tourism. To elaborate, the villiage Higurashi is based on (Shirwakawa-Go) experienced a significant surge in tourism after the anime was finished. It got to the point where the villagers had to build a new shrine wall due to the old wall being loaded full with Higurashi stuff.

There's also the number of internet memes spawned from the series. Rena has directly spawned the Omochikari meme, 4 chan celebrates "Rena Day on 7/7, Usoda affects the whole cast, and Rika spawned the Nipah meme. Also memetic psychopathy for Rena and the Sonozaki sisters.

As far as capabilities are, the sisters are highly intelligent and charasmatic. Mion is an excellent strategist. As far as fighting capability goes, Mion's CQC abilities are on par with a veteran soldier as she hands one his ass in the 8th novel.

thatdude Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#1887: Jul 17th 2014 at 10:44:28 AM

Why does this have to be so complicated?! You know thing have take a wrong turn when someone trys to bring fucking math into it.

Guys, here's a simple way we can do this:

  • 1. What's the character's canon power?
  • 2. How influential is that character?
  • 3. How influential is the trope(s) that character represents?
  • 4. Add all those up.
  • 5. ???
  • 6. Profit.

edited 17th Jul '14 10:45:12 AM by thatdude

TPPR10 Shocking Gun! from out of nowhere Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Shocking Gun!
#1888: Jul 17th 2014 at 10:56:25 AM

But how does one rank influence? And influence forwards what? The Pantheon? The media? Other works? Stuff might sound simple on paper, but putting stuff into use is another thing.

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!
Camilla What do you mean I'm not declared insane? Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Californicating
What do you mean I'm not declared insane?
#1889: Jul 17th 2014 at 10:57:52 AM

Um, I know that I usually am never a part of these big things, and that I usually am (read: constantly) pushed to the side while the big boys have their say in huge debates regarding the Upheaval, Rebellion, whatever ChrisX suggests, and the like. But I thought I could bring my two cents here. (seeing as I'm just a big outsider to the majority of the Pantheon's daily discussions...)

The balance of this whole ranking is not only a combination of the character's power level in canon, the impact in the real world, and the like. Shouldn't we also take in consideration just how much we put into them? For example take Captain Falcon, a huge Memetic Badass in Super Smash and god of powerful punches. Sure that's fine, the problem with that is that the Falcon Punch is only highlighted twice: Super Smash and that finale of the Falcon anime. He doesn't use it in his video game canon. Yet WHY is he the god of that trope? Why is he so well liked?

Because we made him that way.

Falcon doesn't have to be in the Pantheon, but we gave him that voice. It was a decision we made, even though we don't have that much proper evidence that he's capable of making a fiery falcon punch in the first place. So my question is that how much of an influence can we have over the gods? What makes them so important to make them reach Greater God/Overdeity/whatever rank we have when we, the fanbase, are the ones who influence them the most?

Note to self: Never bet on Entei.
thatdude Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#1890: Jul 17th 2014 at 11:06:46 AM

[up]You up a very good point.

[up][up] Not influence in the Pantheon, that would only complicate things further.

TPPR10 Shocking Gun! from out of nowhere Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Shocking Gun!
#1891: Jul 17th 2014 at 11:11:07 AM

[up][up] That makes me think of something: maybe there shouldn't be a definite way to determent god's ranking outside of their actual powers? Maybe it should be determent on what feels right to the character. Should Batman be a Greater God for being the Badass Normal superhero? Okay. Should Joker not be an Overdeity if Batman is a Greater God, since they are like the two opposites of the same coin? Sure. Sure, it would sometimes require bit of a discussion and no one shouldn't go overboard with it, but you know. Like I feel Wolverine should get a rank up due of other major superheores being way higher than him.

I admit, I doubt most of you would agree with me, but that is just how I feel.

edited 17th Jul '14 11:13:03 AM by TPPR10

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!
thatdude Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
MosquitoMan Giraffe Choreographer from Over here Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Giraffe Choreographer
#1893: Jul 17th 2014 at 11:44:58 AM

Well while this is going on, I'm curious. Do we have a god for Precious Puppies? If not, I nominate Chibiterasu, Amaterasu's son from Okamiden.

"AXEL ON STAAAAGE!"
thatdude Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
rin14100 Darkness' old friend from The Guatemala City Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Darkness' old friend
#1895: Jul 17th 2014 at 5:51:50 PM

So, I'm curious about something, why is only Yui in the pantheon and not everyone in Houkago Teatime?

Also do we have a goddess of Meganekko's?

edited 17th Jul '14 7:29:19 PM by rin14100

In times of trouble, turn to the Devil for guidance.
MosquitoMan Giraffe Choreographer from Over here Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Giraffe Choreographer
#1896: Jul 17th 2014 at 7:32:38 PM

[up][up]Well if no one minds, I think a celestial god puppy who is the son of his universe's main goddess would be more than worthy. I'll whip up something later.

"AXEL ON STAAAAGE!"
thatdude Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#1897: Jul 17th 2014 at 7:32:59 PM

[up][up] Likely for a few reasons. Such as the tropes they could represent have been taken, no one thought of adding the rest of them, etc. Personally I don't like the idea of ascending entire teams/groups just for the sake of ascending them so the full set is there (*cough cough* Supernatural Four Horsemen *cough cough*). If it is just naturally comes about then that's fine.

After some searching in the Personal Appearance house I have found no one has that title.

edited 17th Jul '14 7:33:10 PM by thatdude

Camilla What do you mean I'm not declared insane? Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Californicating
What do you mean I'm not declared insane?
#1898: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:04:08 PM

So, have I actually helped out in this in anyway? (Sorry to ask but once I again I feel like I'm not a big part in huge discussions.Chris X calls it Cursed with Awesome somehow)

Note to self: Never bet on Entei.
MosquitoMan Giraffe Choreographer from Over here Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Giraffe Choreographer
#1899: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:14:22 PM

[up]If you mean the ranking thing, I wasn't really part of that either, I was only focused on demoting the Joker.

Speaking of which, I'll be sure to do that when I take care of Chibiterasu's mock profile, if it hasn't already been done. He can stay in the Main House, but he's definitely heading into Greater God territory.

"AXEL ON STAAAAGE!"
DonaldthePotholer from Miami's In-State Rival Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Married to the job
#1900: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:50:07 PM

Mosquito: A small pebble can cause a great avalanche. When a popular figure has been found to have been over-ranked (or under-ranked) by a system, with good reason, one has to wonder how fair (or arbitrary) they system itself is.

On the subject of Ash Ketchum, the reason why I was going to put him on trial was not because the fans depict him as a Memetic Loser, but because the writers bought into it; hence how he got "dumbed down" throughout Best Wishes (even more so than an ordinary Idiot Hero) and how he lost to Cameron (who was even dumber than Unova!Ash). Whenever even his staunchest supporters consider a Mercy Cancellation as the Best Case Scenario, something's Gone Horribly Wrong.note  Because Ash became a Dumbass No More in Kalos, the charges were dropped.

Camilla: While I do account for what you're saying, in part, with my "Memetic factor" (M in my model), I'm thinking that you're saying that it should have a greater effect.

Which got me thinking, again: doesn't "Memetic factor" rise and fall with time? Example: Rainbow Dash is the goddess of Rainbows in our Pantheon, but if this were made 20-25 years ago, I'd wager dollars to donuts that that post would have been filled by Rainbow Brite. Why have we chosen the former instead of the latter? Because the latter is inactive and/or the former is more popular than the latter has ever been. Will that popularity stand the Test of Time? Maybe for a decade, which is on the "enduring" side...

Another Example: Prior to coming here, how many of you would have associated, e.g. Jupiter with Secrets as opposed to, say, Strength? Yet what percentage of the Planetary Senshi are in the Pantheon?note  And the fact that there's a long list for the name Luna on the Stellar Name page and the god(ess) of shapeshifting isn't on there as of 17 July 2014 should tell you something.note 

And who says that the members of Houkago Tea Time aren't better representatives of their respective Tropes than the present Patrons? How do we determine that?

How much sway should a formerly Vocal Minority hold against a present-day Vocal Minority?

Thatdude: Adding is maths [lol]. That being said, you may be onto something. Maybe all three legs are equal, as opposed to "Trope Influence" being primary.note  At least comparing "powers" would be easier if all three factors were of equal weight.

TPPR: What you're saying in post #1891 was the idea I originally put forthnote  minus the World-Creators' exception. That evovled into the "Influence" factor and, well...

I guess what I'm trying to ask is twofold:

  • "How should these three factors be weighted (in relative terms)? Or do all three need to be in the formula? and/or Is there something we're missing here?"
  • "Do the Influence and Memetic Power factions change over time? And, if so, should the ranks change to reflect these fluctuations?"

At least the Pantheon page itself allows for cases where the choice of a Trope Exemplar was not well thought out, though it doesn't account for exemplars that fall out of style or that are overshadowed by successors.

edited 17th Jul '14 9:52:28 PM by DonaldthePotholer

Ketchum's corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced tactic is indistinguishable from blind luck.

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