We have consensus to rename and a new name here.

Should we do anything with all the wiks talking about actual capital cities?

I think we wanted to plug a trope about actual capital cities into Capital City, but I am not sure if it's tropable

I think it's tropable as a Setting Trope. It's basically a setting that revolves around politics. It's a trope the same way that Hidden Elf Village, and Underwater City are tropes.

Looks like the rename was done, but there are still 176 wicks to clean and a decision to be made on Capital City.

If there's something tropable about Capital City as a Setting Trope that's distinct from any other city, I'm all for making it a trope.

Wick check: Type 1 - misused as pothole for an official capital city

• Baldur's Gate
• Blue Dragon
• British Accents
• Brain Lord
• Cannon Dancer
• Chrono Cross
• City Noir (used incorrectly in an example, possibly Hub City could work behind the word "massive" in the second paragraph of the description)
• Cuando Juan Y Tula Fueron A Siritinga
• Daikaijuu Monogatari
• Dark Souls
• Dawn Attack / crosswicked to Tortall Universe
• Der Funken Wahrheit (this is the German translation guide)
• Disc One Nuke
• Discworld MUD
• Dragon Quest IX
• Dreamblood Duology
• Dream World
• Dungeons & Dragons Online
• Elaborate Underground Base
• eRepublik
• Fake King
• Fantastic Nuke
• Fantasy Online
• Fantasy Online
• Fern Game Series
• Final Fantasy IX
• Final Fantasy IX Scars Of Terra
• Final Fantasy VI
• Final Fantasy XIII- 2
• Freelancer
• French Jerk
• Greater Houston (this page is indexed as a Useful Note and a Major World City but appears to have a trope URL)
• Heavy Weapon
• Hyper Flight
• I Antivirus
• International Comic Continuity
• Lost Souls MUD
• Medieval Stasis
• Mogworld
• My Little Pony Rise Of Vicis
• Mystery Men
• Nehrim
• New Gods
• Not the Intended Use
• Plane Shift
• Playable Epilogue
• Point And Click Map
• Pretty Fly For A White Guy
• Protagonists
• Psycho Waluigi
• Quackshot
• Radiant Historia
• Random Encounters
• Ratchet And Clank All 4 One
• Requiem
• Revelation Space
• RuneScape (might mean Player Headquarters?)
• Video Game/Saga Frontier (might mean Player Headquarters)
• Video Game/Sa Ga Frontier 2
• Soundscape Metropolis
• Sponge Bob Square Pants Battle For Bikini Bottom
• Star Trek: A Time to...
• Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Relaunch
• Star Trek: Enterprise Relaunch
• Star Trek: Mere Anarchy
• Star Trek Novel Verse
• Star Trek: Vulcan's Heart
• Storyboarding the Apocalypse
• Roleplay/Syrellia
• Tales Of Eternia (does this one work with Hub City?)
• Tales Of Vesperia
• Tales Series (locked page)
• The Beast Legion
• The Descended
• The Elder Scrolls
• The Elder Scrolls III Morrowind
• The Legend Of Korra S 1 E 1 Welcome To Republic City
• The Lord of the Rings Online
• The Movolreilen Saga
• The Riftwar Cycle
• The Very Definitely Final Dungeon
• The Way
• Toontown Online
• Treachery Cover Up
• Tropes A-C (probably - though how it could be subverted, idk)
• Tropes A-H
• Untold Legends
• Villain Forgot to Level Grind
• Vitriolic Best Buds
• Where Are You From

Type 1.5 - Sort of like Type 1 but explicitly refers to the government:

• Boom Town
• Holy City
• Inheritance Trilogy
• Inheritance Trilogy
• One Product Planet - as in a planet that's principle job is governing an interstellar empire (may overlap with Type 2/2.5)

Type 2 - City is physical representation of the nation - either of its power/nationalism or its culture(s):

• Bionicle
• Codex Alera (also used in one context as Type 1)
• Color-Coded Elements (I think this goes here... the city serves as a place where the cultures of the larger world mix, like the world recreated on a smaller scale)
• Egopolis (partially Type 1, partially this type since the city ruler wants to make it representative of her power) - is The War Of The Ancients the same universe?
• Gaming Steve Universe (could be this or Type 1)

Type 2.5 - a city is metaphorically "the center of the world"/nation/universe due to having lots of power

• Video Game/F-Zero / same city as Video Games
• Lunar (two cities were listed, one I changed to Merchant City, one is a world center of learning - is there a trope for that?)

Uncertain:

• BIT.TRIP
• Brutal Legend
• Champions Online
• Chronicles Of Conflict
• Decade Dissonance
• Video Game/Dominions (video game: explains that some units can only be used in a capital city)
• Tabletop Game/Eberron (says neither city is the seat of government - could still be Type 1, but someone who knows the work will have to weigh in)
• Evolution The World Of Sacred Device
• Global Currency
• Grandia II (the two examples given are both nations ruling empires, not cities)
• Hard Corps Uprising
• Kid Klown In Crazy Chase
• Mega Man 72
• Mega Man ZX
• Midsomer Murders (it sounds like this being used to mean simply a centrally-located city, possibly just needs to be Hub City but someone who knows the work will have to decide)
• Orcus on His Throne (could be Type 1 or 1.5, or might mean "the city where the Big Bad's HQ is")
• Player Headquarters (linked in trope description as a Compare. This trope is about a city in a video game that is the base of operations for the player characters)
• Red Light District
• Shining City (linked in trope description)
• Sonic Adventure
• Sorting Algorithm of Weapon Effectiveness
• Soundscape (ZCE: "city name, arguably")
• Super Monkey Ball
• The Chessmaster
• The Descended
• The Inquisition Legacy
• The Witcher
• Video Game/Turok
• UTA Core

None:

• Elenco Provvisorio B-C: this is the Italian translation page and unlike the German page, it has no description so it just needs someone fluent to translate the new Hub City name and refile it alphabetically

Most of the Type 1 links just identify one city as the capital without implying anything else about the city. Couldn't those just be deleted or converted to non-linked text?

Possibly there is a trope for a capital city that revolves around government and is full of powerful politicians, as in a political thriller. Compare with Merchant City which is full of merchants and markets or Not-So-Safe Harbor which is full of pirates, drinking dens and ladies of negotiable affection. There don't seem to be many uses for this though and it might lead to the level of misuse seen here.

Another possibility might be a trope for a city which is a nation/culture's physical representation - like nation/world writ small, melting pot type city.

Some might overlap with Land of One City and we do have Setting As A Character (which isn't thriving).

Also needed: is there a trope for a world center of learning?

edited 19th Sep '12 2:21:21 PM by StarValkyrie

Setting trope sent to YKTTW.

It looks like there aren't actually many wicks that wouldn't just be deleted in a wick cleanup and there's debate in the YKTTW about whether this is tropeworthy at all. Maybe it just needs to be cut.

Ummm, no.

Hub City is definitely tropeworthy as a game mechanic. We collect those. The wrong wicks can be deleted.

YKTTW is excellent at making terrible drafts go forward and not understanding supertropes. There's three mods supporting a setting trope, though it needs work.

I do not think the tropeworthiness complaints are actually valid. To wit, "overly-long example section" is not an argument in favour of People Sit on Chairs.

I meant the Capital City trope which is supposed to take all the wicks that aren't Hub City, not Hub City itself. Or I guess what I'm asking here is should those wicks just be deleted now since they obviously don't fit Hub City and if Capital City comes out of YKTTW, then they can be put back?

I don't think anyone is claiming that misuse makes it People Sit on Chairs. The argument against having a Capital City trope is that just being a capital city doesn't come with associated characteristics in fiction (or real life) that would constitute a trope. Even the examples given in the YKTTW [1] don't have much in common and some are about the way the city is described while others are about how it figures in the plot.

I actually think that Star Valkyrie and shimaspawn are talking at cross-purposes there - merely being set in the capital city wouldn't be a trope, it would be Trivia, but the archetype is a valid one, as are the current examples on the draft.

Exactly, it's the Archetype of a Capital City that is a trope. Not merely the epithet.

I really want a better name because a Capital City title will inevitably run into decay, but I haven't had time to gauge my options.

edited 15th Dec '12 1:21:51 PM by lu127

Only things I can think of are In The Capital City and Meaningful Capital City, none of which look particularly good for me.

That makes sense. So then all the wicks that are just potholes for a national capital can be deleted, but the others should stay under Capital City for now?

You're free to delete the wicks of Capital City / Hub City misuse. Especially the ones that are about a capital with no context.

Capital City Archetype?

If you stick "Meaningful" at the beginning of the title and call it solved, I want you to punch yourself in the nose for me, okay?

I think The Capital City works.

There can be multiple in a work that fit the archetype and work against each other. Thus calling it The is confusing since it implies there's only one.

Eh, we have a lot of tropes that start with "The" and can appear multiple times in a work. I'm not too worried about that.

Still, it does nothing to discourage misuse.

Can someone clarify for me how Hub City differs from a Hub Level that happens to be a city? I just found a page which listed the same game location as both and I'm not sure which one is correct.

A Hub Level is a level that leads to a bunch of other Levels. Basically the world select screen made into a level.

A Hub City is the centre of plot and the home to a large number of sidequests. As such it's revisited many times throughout the storyline even if it doesn't directly connect to other levels.

Okay, sounds like it's probably Hub City then.