Character pronoun and identity discussion

Go with they/them, when I edited the page I used he but that was just to be consistent with the rest of the page

REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her

Hello! Ask The Tropers sent me over here, so i'll copy my previous statement from there:

When i saw the page for Cult of the Lamb I was rather surprised to see the player character, Lambert, referred to unequivocally by male pronouns, despite the character's gender never being stated in game, and the developers explicitly saying the character does not have a gender. Both male and female sheep can have horns depending on breed, so even the mention in the character page about Lambert likely being male due to their horns doesn't really work, especially since Word of God says they are intentionally not male or female. Can I change the pronouns for Lambert to gender-neutral ones?

Have you never before supped upon Pined Cone?

If we have Word of God confirmation saying the character doesn't have a gender, then I see no reason not to use they/them.

(Not intended as a mod statement; just casting a vote along with everyone else here, but I or another mod can update the list in the header when the thread decides what to use.)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 5th 2022 at 12:37:35 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

As mentioned in the ATT thread, I'm also in support of using they/them for Lambert.

Edited by bowserbros on Nov 5th 2022 at 11:32:43 AM

Be kind.

I agree, they/them for Lambert.

No real question here.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

they/them sounds best.

They/them.

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They/them

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

They/Them

Victor of HGS S320 | "There's rosemary, that's for remembrance. Pray you, love, remember."

They/them

And with that I added Lambert to the OP list.

Macron's notes

We may have a minor edit war going on. UFOYeah made an edit to Sozo's character folder in Cult of the Lamb changing the line

to

while citing this thread, but Amonimus changed it back, apparently because the "his" referred to Sozo rather than the Lamb.

Edited by Arawn999 on Nov 7th 2022 at 7:55:16 AM

Maybe elaborate what "it" specifically refers to?

At Characters.Cult Of The Lamb, in Sozo's folder.

Mushroomos are Sozo's followers and he's a Bad Boss to them, so unless I'm missing something it's self-evident that should be used here. I've not changed anything else.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Going back to Seton Academy and Yena: I was able to hunt down the arc in question and I actually retract my earlier comments. That arc successfully upgrades Yena from a dick-girl Joke Character into what I'd see as a valid depiction of a female-presenting trans man. It helps immensely that the arc revolves almost entirely around Yena's pseudo-penis and ends with the aesop "being a man has nothing to do with whether or not you have a penis". Honestly kinda impressed, didn't think the manga had it in itself to nail it like that so good job there.

(I will say I don't agree with the "the artstyle is for the audience's benefit" point, having a major discrepancy like that is something that needs to be more explicitly set up, otherwise it comes off as a Fanon Hand Wave that I would call incredibly generous.)

Maybe "for the audience's benefit" isn't the right way to put it, but it's still a clearly deliberate and, Yena aside, consistent part of the work. A way to identify female characters (again, Yena aside) as a kind of Tertiary Sexual Characteristic. Any human character other than Yena and the actual humans can be quickly identified as female.

"Audience's Benefit" was mainly based on my memory of the fact this quirk of artstyle is never acknowledged in-universe that I can think of and, if nothing else, serves as a way to provide fanservice.

I'm not sure how Yena is a discrepancy, if that's what you're referring to, since the entire point is "appears feminine/assigned female at birth, presents as masculine"

Edited by sgamer82 on Nov 8th 2022 at 8:48:17 AM

In Origins SMP, Ranboo's character is only ever referred to as a prince and a male in the original source material, but on Twitter Ranboo said "sure, why not" when asked if the character is a trans woman. Note that the question wasn't about headcanons, but just whether the character was or wasn't a trans woman. Most fans seem to have taken this as confirmation and begun to use she/her pronouns for the character, and the page on here has changed as such.

I have no issues with this, but I just wanted to double check that this was the right choice, I guess? Hopefully that makes sense.

LP Deprecation Cleanup | Ask me about SMPLive

is it implied in story that the character is trans? the reason we allowed Word of Gay to affect the pronouns on Snapdragon's page is because said Word of Gay was building on things that were established in the series. if it's just unsupported Word of Gay, we should stick to the pronouns used in the series, much as i hate to say it.

I don't think it is. Creator's reasoning was that they only felt comfortable because they no longer played the character (series is over), and that if they did, they'd not feel right portraying a transfem character as someone who isn't.

But I also know that some people would be very upset if it was changed back, and nobody seems to be having any issues with it as is, I just wanted to check and see if this was handled the way it should be.

Edited by Serilly on Nov 9th 2022 at 6:05:00 AM

LP Deprecation Cleanup | Ask me about SMPLive

im not gonna argue against it very hard... if it's fine the way it is, we can leave it alone.

Eh, if the series is over, I guess it doesn't matter too much.

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What's the correct pronouns for C-3pO? I've always used he/him, because he looks like a man and has a masculine voice, but I heard my dad using it/its the other day.

For every low there is a high.

C3PO and R2D2 have "Male programming" according to Star Wars: The Clone Wars Character Encyclopedia.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

He/him/his seems right to me.

He/him for Ranboo's character. A random tweet isn't enough to overturn the closest this thing has to canon, and unlike in Snap's case there were no in-series hints.

Edited by bwburke94 on Nov 9th 2022 at 1:31:12 PM

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

I'm admittedly incredibly torn on the Ranboo scenario, at least as described. Like, I don't want to piss on anyone's parade, the fact that all parties involved are cool with rolling with it and there's no fandom drama about it is great. However, I'm admittedly unsettled by the implication that the fandom just decided to Fanon Ranboo as trans because why not. Just from how it's described it sounds surprisingly thin and resting heavily on retroactive Ascended Fanon(?) via Word of Saint Paul(?) - trans characters shouldn't need to be defined by their trans experience, no, but I'd expect at least a little more meat in a Trans Audience Interpretation. And what does that say about the series? Is the whole thing now set before Ranboo came out? Has everyone else just been accidentally misgendering Ranboo this whole time?

I've got no horse in this and I'm not trying to start anything, like I said the lack of drama is great. It sounds like everyone involved at least has good intentions and if there's anything missing that makes it parse better that'd be good to know.

Edited by Watchtower on Nov 10th 2022 at 2:20:15 PM