During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Yes to Cedrick and Khonsu.
As for Tia Dalma, I always thought her act of abandoning her love pact with Davy Jones was a colossal bitch move itself. She manipulates this guy into falling in love with her and assigns him this duty which curses him to never set foot on land. This directly leads to the creation of Davy Jones as a villain, and their conversation in At World's End outright said she didn't show up because she was fickle and didn't feel like it.
I'm saying yes because that alone makes her a bitch in my book.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Yeah, that much is sketchy, but she did genuinely love him. Her flighty nature is just part of her, though. As she says, Jones wouldn't love her if she was anything but who she was.
I'm not sure just cheating on her lover is enough for the bastard component, but...Jones gave up everything for her. His soul and all. So nature or not, yeesh
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Oh, mind if I join in on that?
Edited by Snowy66 on May 20th 2022 at 7:30:49 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Snowy: I am cool with it shoot me a PM.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
@Snowy I totally see it for Tia Dalma. If I changed to abstain before, I'm back to a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
. Let me link my old EP…here.
Mind if I help with the writeup? Also, PM me about potentials too.
Yah sure, been a while since I've done a collab. Since you first proposed her, would be happy for you to join in.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Now to deal with them...
What's the work?
To My Death I Fight (archive) is a Bleach & Kill la Kill (and later on Hellsing) crossover fanfic written by BahamutReishiki. Published in February 3, 2014, it was completed in January 29, 2018.
To quote the trope page : "A while has passed since Ichigo Kurosaki sacrificed his spiritual powers to put an end to the Big Bad's plans. Utterly spent, Ichigo settles down into what appeared to be a life as a normal human for once, with nothing even remotely supernatural about to kill him. As summer vacation approaches and he thinks about what he's going to do, his father reveals that he's been signed up for the prestigious Honnouji Academy for the next school year, without asking Ichigo if he wanted to go or not.
After being forced to throw a going away party, Ichigo finds out that Urahara requested his presence at his store, Upon reluctantly coming at Kisuke's behest, he receives a call from the shopkeeper, who tells Ichigo that he's being chased by a ditzy blonde child with a hankering for pink and urges him to recover the project that he's been working on for a while now - a Kamui."
There's several potential keepers in the fanfic, and I admit I won't necessarily go through all of them, but let's start with those I do plan to cover.
Who's Sosuke Aizen? What has he done?
In August 11th, 1857, Aizen, back then an up-and-coming ambitious Shinigami in the 5th division, was spying for now 50 years on the Kiryuin family in the World of the Living under the pretenses of "patrolling the outer districts of the Rukongai". He discovered their odd situation after noticing that for unclear reasons, "every member of the family possessed greater than average spiritual energy without having Quincy or shinigami ancestry" — and it kept growing with each offspring of the family — and thus wanted to discover why. Discovering the Original Life Fiber as a result, he stole some of its Life Fibers by taking advantage of the OLF showing a brief moment of weakness by consuming the latest Kiryuin matriarch. Realizing that the OLF was an Omnicidal Maniac, Aizen decided to save humanity from it. No matter what it took, no matter the sacrifices.
Creating his Hogyoku with the stolen Life Fibers, Aizen decides to empower it and fuse it with Kisuke Urahara's Hogyoku, leading him to commit his canon deeds. He also keeps observing the Original Life Fiber and the Kiryuin family all the way to its latest matriarch, Ragyo. Leading him to witness her crushing defeat against her former friend and love rival Masaki Kurosaki, with Aizen only prevented from finishing off Ragyo by the fact the latter's Life Fibers would devour his spiritual energy until death occurs (except if they have Gigai bodies or ridiculous amounts of spiritual energy).
In his canon fight with Isshin Kurosaki, Aizen figures out Isshin's status as an artificial Life Fiber Hybrid and his current inability to destroy the OLF and reveals how he plans to deal with the OLF: By implanting the Hogyoku in his body and trying to kill the Soul King, Aizen hopes to weaken the OLF, killing it and prevent the Celestial Cocoon Seed Planet from ever happening. When Isshin — with his superior knowledge of Life Fibers — explains why this won't work, Aizen decides to change plans:
Having Isshin convince Ichigo to sacrifice these powers through the Final Getsuga Tensho, Aizen realizes that the Life Fiber Hogyoku was starting to corrupt his mind, and thus tricked Ichigo into using the technique ASAP to ensure it didn't mentally affects him further. Aizen would then fake his death at Ichigo's hands. Though shit didn't went as Aizen expected.
This, combined with the Hogyoku corruption - unwittingly stopped by Ichigo however - and with Urahara taking him down much like canon while still unaware of the Life Fibers' plot drove Aizen in his canon Villainous Breakdown, though here it's more directed towards himself and the OLF, blaming himself for failing to protect humanity.
Imprisoned in the Muken for his crimes, Aizen regains his calm and is freed by Urahara when the latter becomes desperate enough to do anything to take down Ragyo.
Saving Satsuki from Ragyo, Aizen engages Ragyo in Karakura Town, trolling her by bringing up he's the reason not only her and Isshin ever met, that he's also the reason Masaki met Isshin and bringing up Ragyo's brutal defeat against Masaki, keeping up with her through improvisation (such as taking her by surprise and stabbing her in the heart and lungs when she thought she killed him, using Kyoka Suigetsu when it seemed she had him on the ropes, using Anti-Life Fiber anklets to trap Ragyo and leave her vulnerable to Hadō #99 : Goryūtenmetsu and bring up how Urahara created the anklets, etc) and later on teamwork with Satsuki (when Ragyo steals the Hogyoku from Aizen, Satsuki attacks her and Aizen uses a barrier to stop Ragyo's counterattack, allowing Satsuki to get back the Hogyoku and use it to go Junketsu Shinzui), keeping up with Ragyo even when she becomes able to see through
Kyoka Suigetsu's illusions and forcing her to go all out for the first time in a long time to actually defeat them.
After Ragyo abducts and absorbs Orihime and leaves the town to start the Celestial Cocoon Seed Planet, Aizen participates in the heroes' assault upon Honnouji Academy, improving Kisuke's sealing Kido to seal the OLF about to awaken, working with Seras Victoria and Kinue Kinagase to invade the Kiryuin Manor: Life Fibers are unable to adapt to vampiric abilities, meaning Seras can break through any Life Fiver wards Ragyo placed to protect the OLF while Kinue is used as a decoy due to her nature potentially attracting the OLF's curiosity.
When the OLF unexpectedly escapes the seal shortly after, Aizen uses his Bankai: Seirei-no-Makoto Kyouka Suigetsu to engage it and slow it down before it reaches Honnouji Academy.
Engaging Ragyo Kiryuin once more after that, Aizen masquerades as Satsuki, imitating her mannerisms and interacts with Ryuko to ensure Ragyo doesn't notices and thus breaks through the illusion. Tricking Ragyo into getting close when she thinks she has "Satsuki" at her mercy and thus can take Junketsu, Aizen uses Ittō Kasō to severely damage her. He then works with Tessai Tsukabishi and Heinkel Wolfe in a team effort to separate Orihime from Ragyo, preventing her from using Absolute Domination and leaving her open for Ichigo to finish her off.
When the Original Life Fiber takes over Ragyo's corpse to finish her work, it's defeated by the combined efforts of Ryuko, Satsuki, Ichigo, Aizen and Nui: Nui unravels Shinra Koketsu from Ragyo's corpse, weakening the OLF as well as its control over the World of the Living, allowing Aizen to send it to Hueco Mondo, since its spiritual density will allow Ryuko and Ichigo's Kamui to fight without worrying about straining their Life Fibers, and Satsuki takes the OLF by surprise and personally ends it.
After the final fight, Aizen peacefully returns to his Muken prison and is last seen conversing with Urahara, refusing the latter's offer to leave the Muken as thanks for his contribution. Discussing the current situation, the two geniuses wonder how which decisions the Soul Society will take once they are able to return to the World of the Living and investigate the Life Fibers. While Aizen has a pessimistic opinion on their reaction, he has faith Urahara will find a solution in time given his intellect.
Is he charmi-
Intelli-
Thinking on his feet?
His fights against Ragyo and later on the Original Life Fiber show his adaptability and bullshittery well enough. He's overpowered by the Evil Matriarch in the long run but manages to find his way back to the top by sheer improvisation, teamwork – often with Satsuki – and Indy Ploy.
What about the competition?
Even when Ragyo overpowers him, outsmarts him or comes a step closer to her goal, he essentially runs circles around her, targeting her from all fronts : physical, intellectual or psychological. He's the one who outsmarts her one last time, leading to her death. He also outsmarts the Original Life Fiber and leads to his death in the long run as well.
Is he a bastard?
Adaptational Heroism ≠ Draco in Leather Pants.
The fanfic doesn't let you forget his canon deeds : while he created the Hogyoku to ensure the Life Fibers' defeat, manipulating Momo Hinamori, backstabbing Harribel and sacrificing hundreds of shinigamis to do so is still rightfully acknowledged by the story as unforgivable. In his attempt to snatch part of the OLF's Life Fibers, he has little issue letting the latest Kiryuin matriarch die. Even in the present, while he goes out of his way to ensure casualties remains at a minimum, he has no problem using 2 of his allies as bait in an attempt to seal the Original Life Fiber, caring little for one of them's mental distress over that.
Too much of a bastard?
Regarding the heinous standard, he's small potatoes compared to the Millennium and the Vandereich. Combine that with his genuinely good intentions – leading him to single-handedly protect Soul Society from the Life Fibers – and the fact his most dickish and trollish actions target… Ragyo Kiryuin and he's not remotely close to being bad enough. At the very end of the fanfic, when the Tres Bestías beg Orihime to heal Harribel (who was mortally wounded by the Original Life Fiber), Aizen – who in canon backstabbed Harribel after she outlived her usefulness – , in a rare moment of kindness, allows her to do so.
Any other mitigating factors?
Nope.
Verdict ?
Up to you guys. But allow me to propose this quote :
What's the work?
Who's Jin Kariya (born Eugene Currier) ? What has he done?
The Big Bad of the infamous Bount Arc. Born Eugene Currier a thousand years prior to the series, Kariya was originally just a kid member of a Bount tribe. With his tribe, Eugene settled in a cave in the future Karakura's outskirts at the recommendation of Ran'Tao, a Shinigami who hoped to have the Bounts protected by Soul Society.
Who wasn't having it, as they sent Shinigami to the cave to commit a Bount genocide with the pretense the Bounts were resisting arrest. Eugene was saved alongside a couple other Bounts by Ran'Tao, who gave him an amulet to awaken his Doll (the Bounts' Stand-sorry, powers) Messer, and formed a tribe with said Bounts. Unfortunately, shit only worsens from there : he does manage to save his tribe from some Hollows by fusing with Messer but said tribe starts mistrusting him, not listening to his warnings against attempting to return to Soul Society and against teaming up with the Quincy, resulting in the tribe getting slaughtered.
Let's just say that such a predicament left him understandably deeply traumatized and embittered against the Shinigami and even his fellow Bounts at a lesser extent.
Renaming himself Jin Kariya, Eugene amassed over the centuries a group of fellow Bounts to help him in his revenge against the Soul Society, such as his wife Yoshino Sōma — who later on left cuz she saw him eating a human soul to empower himself —, Gō Koga, Ugaki, Yoshi, D'Arby-looking mofo Ryō Utagawa, Hō, Ban, Mabashi and Sawatari. Oh, and there's also Maki Ichinose, who isn't a Bount, but a former Shinigami Kariya convinced to join his group. Their objective? Well, officially, it's to essentially enter and take over Soul Society.
To do so, Kariya has his ex-wife and Uryū Ishida kidnapped in order to use respectively Yoshino's maternal Bount abilities and Ishida's Quincy powers to empower himself and his underlings. When Ichigo & co. attack Kariya's mansion in order to save these two, Kariya sends Utagawa to fight Ichigo. When Utagawa — who plans to take over the Bounts for himself — asks Kariya to remove his Bount crest to confirm Utagawa would face Ichigo by himself (since Bounts fight alone), Kariya seemingly do so, leading to Utagawa to take the crest for his plans... Only to be badly Out-Gambitted before being executed by Maki: the Crest Kariya supposedly laid down was a fake.
While Kariya defeats Ichigo, he, Maki and the other Bounts are forced to retreat due to reinforcements, but Kariya is confident that even though they have been rescued, Yoshino and Ishida will come back to them. Which is exactly what happens, since Yoshino wants to end her ex-husband for good and Ishida befriended Yoshino so he followed her.
Defeating and killing Yoshino, Kariya uses her maternal abilities to create big-ass spirit mosquitoes the Bitto, sent en masse to absorb human souls and bring them to the Bounts to absorb and thus become stronger before invading Soul Society.
To ensure Ishida regains his Quincy powers — lost after the events of the Soul Society arc —, Kariya sends Maki to the Soul Society : the latter, using his illusionary powers, infiltrates the Shinigsmi Research and Development Institute to erase the data on the Quincy Bangle from 12th Division Captain Mayuri Kurotsuchi so the latter will learn about it when he inevitably succeeds in restoring the data later, and will subsequently send the Quincy Bangle to Ishida, allowing the former to temporarily regain his Quincy powers. Ishida subsequently uses his new powers to complete the Bounts' portal to the Soul Society in the hopes of having a field advantage against the Bounts with the surrounding energy... But as Kariya expected, Ishida Failed a Spot Check: the Bounts — having been created in Soul Society as well — will be stronger too on top of being empowered by the Bitto, and thanks to Ishida have successfully entered Soul Society.
Landing in the Rukongai, maintaining the official revolutionary goal of changing Soul Society, Kariya amasses an army of several hundreds of Kusajishi denizens with the help of a local owner of a gambling club after impressing him with his abilities and charisma. With that army, Kariya builds massive siege engines, allowing him to open the gate to the Seireitei and thus start with his underlings the invasion. Sending the latters against the Shinigami captains, Kariya sneaks in the Shinigami Research and Development Institute in order to reach the Jōkaishō. He plans on absorbing the latter's power for the sake of his true goal: blowing to kingdom come the entire Soul Society and everyone in it, himself included. At this point, Kariya was too embittered by his past experiences to care and is out for revenge. He leaves a day to the Soul Society before setting off the Jōkaishō.
Defeating Koga — who learned about his true goals —, Ran'Tao, Ishida and Maki — who also learned about his true goals — in that order, Kariya ends up facing Ichigo in the final fight, with both combatants pulling all the stops (Messer, Bankai), and when Ichigo deduces Kariya's battle strategy, the latter uses Messer's lightning blade to severely wound Ichigo. It takes Ichigo's Inner Hollow combined with Ran'Tao preventing him to absorb the surrounding Spiritual Particles to heal himself for Kariya to realize he lost. Even then, he goes out on his own terms, using the full power of the Jōkaishō within him before allowing Ichigo to fatally wound him, calmly lamenting he won't be able to see the path Ichigo will take before he passes on.
Is he charming? Intelligent?
Kariya is a charming, seemingly affable fellow whose charisma allowed him to gain an entire army in the Rukongai, led several groups of Bounts through the ages, with the last one (while some of them were in for their own interests from the get-go, Maki, Koga, Yoshino and Ugaki were at one point or another genuinely loyal to him) nearly destroying Soul Society with a complex, elaborate plan. Even when he's faced with certain death, he never loses his Faux Affably Evil demeanor — except when dealing with Ran'Tao and his traumatic past but even then he regains his calm sooner or later — , accepting his demise to Ichigo with dignity.
Thinking on his feet?
Not an issue either. He's prepared when it comes to Utagawa's betrayal, and when Uryū and Yoshino are successfully rescued, Kariya has no problem with it, well aware his ex-wife will try to personally end him sooner and later and that Uryū will follow her.
What about the competition?
He utterly played Mayuri Kurotsuchi — who even has a Villainous Breakdown about it —, who would be an MB of his own right if it wasn't for, well, his Mengele-like actions in his introduction and prior. He Out-Gambitted Utagawa hard and was one step ahead of most people up until he infiltrated the Institute. Even when Ran'Tao outsmart him for good, he calmly accepts his demise.
Is he a bastard?
He can be sadistic a few times, is willing to throw his allies under the bus — even willing to personally kill them — if his plan deems it needed, killed his ex-wife Yoshino to exploit her maternal abilities and create the Bittos from it, and is a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist whose endgame is to essentially nuke Soul Society and everyone who's there, himself included. He has little problem attacking Ran'Tao, too embittered to take in account the fact that she saved his life long ago.
Too much of a bastard?
Nah. He may be willing to throw his fellow Bounts under the bus but he's also willing to show them more empathy than he would for anyone else. Best seen when he openly cries and mourns the death of a young Bount known as Cain. By Yoshino's own admission, Jin Kariya used to genuinely love her. He also does genuinely thank Ishida for opening them a portal to the Soul Society. Even his most dickish moments (such as having no problem targeting Ran'Tao or leaving behind Rukongai citizens – in no serious danger, mind you – once they wore out their use) aren't Aizen's in terms of both evil and pettiness. He also gets some humanizing moments, at one point choosing to briefly halt his plans to that he could… Enjoy fixing a broken clock.
And tbh, while they're called out on their Freudian Excuses, the Bounts' lives — and Kariya's life in particular — sucked and are still portrayed as tragic. Shinigamis after their asses, Quincies after their asses, humans after their asses, Hollows after their asses… Damn. Even Rangiku's marshmallows weren't targeted so often.
Any other mitigating factors?
Using Yoshino's maternal abilities isn't framed as rape or Does This Remind You of Anything?, for those wondering. Basically, Kariya donutted and killed Yoshino and used her maternal Reiryoku to create the Bittos. He's no Szayelaporro Granz (who impregnated Nemu with himself) or even Numb Chandelier (who was considering having Orihime gang-raped by her own brainwashed classmates).
Verdict ?
The Bount Arc is not exactly the best Bleach arc even if we talk filler only, but I'd argue Kariya is at least a technical keeper, if not an ideal one. Up to you guys though.
Pre-emptive writeups
- Bleach, Hellsing and Kill la Kill Fanfic To My Death I Fight: Sosuke Aizen, while retaining his canon cruelty, is driven by genuinely good intentions. Discovering the Original Life Fiber's existence and omnicidal intentions in the 19th century, Aizen started plotting against it, committing his canon deeds to empower his Hogyoku and kill the Soul King in the hopes of taking down the Original Life Fiber. When freed from the Muken by Kisuke Urahara, Aizen works with Ichigo Kurosaki, Ryuko Matoi, Satsuki Kiryuin and their allies against Ragyo Kiryuin, coming up with several strategies and teamwork tactics either in the long run or on the fly, using psychological warfare and excellent teamwork with Satsuki against Ragyo — forcing the latter to go all out to defeat them —, nearly sealing the Original Life Fiber with the help of Seras Victoria and Kinue Kinagase, masquerading as Satsuki and working with Ryuko to trick Ragyo into getting close enough for Aizen to severely injure her, successfully outsmarting Ragyo and leading to her death, and finally work with Ichigo, Ryuko, Satsuki and Nui Harime to send the Original Life Fiber to Hueco Mondo to give the former three a field advantage, allowing them to achieve victory.
- Bleach: Jin Kariya, born Eugene Currier, is the charismatic leader of the Bounts. Driven to bitterness and nihilism by the suffering he endured from the Soul Reapers, the Quincies, the Hollows and even his fellow Bounts since his childhood, Kariya concocted an elaborate plan to destroy Soul Society. Having his former wife Yoshino Sōma and the Quincy Uryū Ishida abducted, Kariya defeats Ichigo Kurosaki when the latter tries to rescue them but decides to retreat when reinforcements arrive, confident his captives will return. When they do, Kariya kills Yoshino, using her maternal Bount abilities to create the Bitto to absorb human souls at a faster rate to empower himself and his underlings, before tricking Mayuri Kurotsuchi and Uryū into completing the Bount portal to Soul Society by manipulating the former into sending a device to the latter that would temporarily restore his lost Quincy powers and thus motivate him into completing the Bount portal in the hopes of fighting the Bounts with a — nonexistent — field advantage. Reaching the Jōkaishō, Kariya uses it to near-successfully destroy the entire Soul Society, only stopped by Ran'Tao's efforts and himself ultimately choosing to let Ichigo kill him.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on May 20th 2022 at 10:07:08 AM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Dagded Dujardin
Betaal, Doom and Khonshu
Just want to but back in and ask if anyone's made a proposal for a Seijuu Sentai Gingaman candidate before? I think one of the major villains could count but I wanted to be sure since I saw a good amount of new Sentai candidates being proposeda recently.
"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
I'll yea there, Georgie.
Also, happy to comment I'll have a wonderful candidate in a couple of weeks from Love, Death and Robots S3
I see Lighty and Scraggle had Multiverse reserved for CM, but I don't see anyone reserving that here. Does anyone count?
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Lies and Violence!
Pretty sure no one makes it. Wanda went straight up psycho, both Sinister and Defender Stranges didn't really do anything before dying, and everyone from the Illuminati universe is a douchebag. Strange himself has some of his morally grey moments explored in greater detail, but nothing that's really conductive here, and it kind of feels like an Informed Attribute at times (*coughcoughTheIlluminatisuckscoughcough*).
DOOM!!, Khonshu (though I have my doubts that he'll keep in the long run), Cedrick, and the Bleach dudes. Staying out of Calypso due to only a passing familiarity with the franchise and too much stuff going on to analyze previous issues.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on May 20th 2022 at 1:26:53 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Harrow's a weird case of an MB. From a one-shot follower of the Nazis' science to a Big Bad and WIE. Huh.
Anyway, I changed the necessary namespaces (Comic Book/ to Character/), so these pages need to be swapped:
- Magnificent Bastard Animated Films
- Magnificent Bastard Arrowverse
- Magnificent Bastard Batman
- Magnificent Bastard Comic Books
- Magnificent Bastard DC Animation
- Magnificent Bastard DC Universe
- Magnificent Bastard DC Video Games
- Magnificent Bastard Fan Works
- Magnificent Bastard Film A To I
- Magnificent Bastard Film J To Y
- Magnificent Bastard Green Arrow
- Magnificent Bastard Literature
- Magnificent Bastard Live Action TV
- Magnificent Bastard Marvel Animation
- Magnificent Bastard Marvel Cinematic Universe
- Magnificent Bastard Marvel Comics
- Magnificent Bastard Music
- Magnificent Bastard Video Games A To L
- Magnificent Bastard Video Games M To Z
Edited by ACW on May 20th 2022 at 7:12:18 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Okay cool time to make the donuts
- Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark: The revised play's Norman Osborn is a scientist who believes in advancing the human race through genetic modification. Constantly working to achieve perfection, Osborn is transformed into the Green Goblin thanks to a failed experiment which kills his wife and erodes his sanity. Angered at humanity for ignoring his will, Goblin sets toward mutating the entire world. Starting his crusade by mutating his employees into the "Sinister Six" and terrorizing the city, Goblin then sets the Daily Bugle further against Spider-Man by revealing the connections between the two. Goblin then threatens Spider-Man's loved ones, forcing Spider-Man to confront him atop the Chrysler Building. When face to face, Goblin reveals that he deduced Spider-Man's secret identity and asks him to join him, before unveiling that he also took Mary Jane Watson hostage for leverage, engaging Spider-Man in a fight and only being stopped when he inadvertently flings himself off the building. Never ceasing to be theatrical and comical despite his madness, Green Goblin stands out as the single greatest villain Spider-Man faces.
- Spidey:
- Issue #4, "Doomsday Off": Doctor Victor von Doom is the ruler of Latveria, a brilliant scientist, and a criminal mastermind. Doom initiates a plan to steal a valuable Latverian painting and return it to its homeland, going head-to-head against Spider-Man in his mission. Though the superhero destroys his initial Doombot and foils the scheme at first, Doom siphons New York's power grid to power his other robots. Biding his time when Spider-Man tracks him down and setting up an ambush via his robots, Doom fights off Spider-Man and escapes with the painting, completely succeeding in his mission.
Literally the same day the stupid "I got a jar of dirt!" meme popped up in my head after like ten years, we get this. Wow.
Yes to Calypso/Tia. What she does to Davy is bad enough in my books (the dude literally dies with her name still on his lips—he was fucking broken) and she easily fits the requirements otherwise.
Edited by Scraggle on May 20th 2022 at 12:22:03 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, and yes to the Barlowe quote.
Bison has a page.
Edited by ACW on May 20th 2022 at 2:42:30 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Calypso
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Sure to Calypso.
Any opinions on Fanfic!Aizen and Kariya? With a few exceptions it's been fairly ignored so far.
Professor Gigachad
both of them
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Calypso and Georgie's candidates
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Okay so I wasn't feeling well today so I went to get a covid test. Unfortunately I tested positive for Covid, so I'll have to quarantine myself for a couple of days.
to your Bleach candidates Georgie
Edited by G-Editor on May 19th 2022 at 10:29:22 PM
Bleach guys
Hope you get well soon G
The work
The Broken Empire Trilogy by Mark Lawrence is about a post-apocalyptic Europe that has reverted to medieval feudalism with an empire at war with itself without an emperor.
Magic has come to exist, and A.I.s left over from the "Builders" have plots for what to do with humanity.
Now our Villain Protagonist Jorg has done some things that will mean he'll never count, but as I rereading the series I wondered if someone else might qualify, so here is Qalasadi.
Who is Qalasadi and what has he done
Qalasadi is a Moorish mathmagician, a man whose trained in numbers and probabilities so well that they can predict possible outcomes with almost prophetic accuracy.
King of thorns
Qalasadi is introduced as an advisor to Jorg's grandfather a duke and Jorg has come to meet his distant family under disguise as a new guard.
Qalasadi meets him and immediately knows who Jorg really is and gives him some cryptic information.
After that a bunch of guards are poisoned and Jorg is blamed for it since he'sthe new foreign guard that didn't get sick. Jorg manages to figure out that it was Qalasadi that poisoned some spices that just came in, and barely manages to stop everyone from eating them. He then realizes Qalasadi must've been behind a similar string poisonings around the region, to leave it open for the Caliph of Liba. Qalasadi himself disappeared as soon as he heard about the guards.
Emperor of thorns
So Jorg goes to Liba to find Qalasadi and on the way meets one of the A.I.s being brought there with a nuke by a robot. Jorg manages to trick it into leaving both out in the desert and when he gets to the city tracks Qalasadi down to a mathmagician college.
He confronts him only to learn that Qalasadi had already plotted all this and knew what Jorg would do. Jorg let's him live and learns why he did all this: the Caliph would support the Prince of Arrow to the throne while Jorg's grandfather wouldn't and he wanted him to take it, since they need an emperor to help stop the A.I.s.
After Jorg kills the robot that wanted to nuke the Caliph he parts ways with Qalasadi as he doesn't believe Jorg will be a threat to uniting the empire.
Magnificence
Jorg takes a liking to Qalasadi the moment he meets him and its easy to see why since he's always charming and polite, even when Jorg is threatening to kill him.
He's also capable of plotting out nearly everything Jorg does down to the second, nearly wipes out a whole noble house from within, and everything ends up how he wants it.
Him failing to kill Jorg's family as Jorg himself says can't really blame him for since the reason it failed was cause of them doing something highly unlikely of giving some of the guards the expensive spice.
Jorg wonders if Qalasadi really knows everything in advance or if he's really good at pretending to, but he can never tell, only time he's truly surprised is Jorg getting into the college faster than he expected, and it's a brief thing.
Bastard-ness
So he's responsible for a number a string of noble houses getting poisoned and nearly killed Jorg's family while letting him take the blame for it.
But he's nowhere near as bad as others like the AI that wanted to nuke a city or Jorg himself and its all to unite the empire and stop the A.I.s from killing or enslaving everybody.
Conclusion
I think Qalasadi is a
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
I'm sorry for you, G! I wish you a speedy recovery.
Aye to Qalasadi.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Professor Gigachad
Qalasadi
Sorry to hear that G I know what you are going through myself due to recent events so I wish you a quick recovery.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on May 20th 2022 at 3:03:59 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Oh, Qalasadi keeps, yep.
@Snowy Get back to you in a bit. Funny enough, Bull and I were discussing other potential candidates from the film franchise earlier this week. Haha.