Fixing lewdness issues

Fritz the Cat has a page, but it says that it's X-rated, and I thought that meant porn.

Something can be heavily sexual while not being entirely pornographic; there's a difference between a work that focuses almost entirely on sex and a work that just has a lot of explicit content.

At least half of the tropes on Irina Shayk are some kind of fanservice trope. And it's a really long list.

Edited by Serac on Aug 23rd 2020 at 8:40:51 AM

Well at least she's an actress.

Can I get some help looking through The Nostalgia Critic and maybe also Doug Walker? The pages and their crosswicks have a creepy fixation on sexualizing the characters and reading kink into scenes not meant to be kinky, which gets extra uncomfortable when people sexualize the real actors.

I'm already cleaning up the NC pages (it has a truly awful Fanservice subpage that I'm currently cleaning up) but there's some crosswicks that I see around the wiki that squick me out. Here's one in particular I'm unsure about from AuthorAppeal.Surname R To Z, with the questioning parts bolded:

• Doug Walker freely admits to being a "masochist manwhore", and submission turns up quite a bit in his four main characters; Ask That Guy (despite being a rapist murderer) gleefully admits to loving going down on anyone and anything, Critic is an Amazon Chaser who wanted the women prisoners in Chicago to snuff him, Donnie is the epitome of Really Gets Around who starts off thinking a gun to his head is a gift given as a make-up-gift by his friends, and poor downtrodden bum Chester gets exploited sexually.
  • In his short-lived show Demo Reel, Badass Adorable ditz Rebecca Stone seems to coincidentally have a gun in her hands for every episode.
  • Doug also has a fascination with Batman. He discussed the films and animated series in overly detail, named Batman his second favorite fictional character of all time and in many sketches you see him dressing up like Batman.
  • He was always good giving fanservice to the LGBT Fanbase, but To Boldly Flee and Demo Reel crammed so much Homoerotic Subtext in that Critic's jerkass amnesiac personality called Doug gay slurs for both of them.
  • Man is very proud of his crotch (in a rare non threatening way, fans even got to take pictures in a Anime Milwaukee 2011 panel), and you'll get to see plenty of it, whether it's him spreading his legs for anyone or groin attacks. Sometimes this is a good thing, other times not so much.

Note that the series does have sexual humor, but it's not omnipresent and usually played for Fan Disservice or otherwise not meant to be sexy. Tropers just read into it in very disturbing ways. (The Fanservice page listed Black Comedy Rape as fanservice. Yeah.)

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 15th 2020 at 6:30:03 AM

Sorry to double post but I just saw this on YMMV.You Cant Do That On Television and I think it should be brought up quickly. Remember that most of the actors on the show are underage.

• Periphery Demographic: The show has a slightly disturbing Misaimed Fandom with WAM (wet and messy) fetishists.

There was one Nostalgia Critic example that's bugged for a while, but I haven't been bothered to bring up. Namely, this entry on Prison Rape:

First off, it's "nicely implied" that a character was prison raped? Yikes...

Secondly, while it's been a while since I saw that review, I don't recall anything suggesting the Critic was supposedly raped in prison. Yeah, he's walking out of prison minus some of his clothes (but he's still wearing his shirt and hat) and is very timid while addressing the crowd, but is that really enough to imply that happened to him in prison? I've seen kid shows make more overt references to Prison Rape than this episode.

So, cut it? Leave it? Rewrite it?

God, there's a Vocal Minority of TGWTG fans who are...very into the Black Comedy Rape in the show, and I know for a fact at least one of them spent a long time as an Entry Pimp back when we didn't have the P5. So that's why there's so many examples like...that. Frankly, it's impressive they could cram those square pegs into round tropes using only one hand.

Anyway, looking at the script for the episode, nothing in his dialogue implies prison rape. That's a shoehorn. He's only wearing casual clothing so he looks downtrodden and pathetic. The show has had actual implied rape scenes that were more explicit in their visual cues.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 15th 2020 at 7:14:57 AM

Isn't Fanservice supposed to be an index and not a trope? Maybe it should be cut outright.

If it shouldn't be used as a trope, we got over 9,000 wicks to clean up. But that seems like a concern for a different thread.

That quote is my proudest moment.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 15th 2020 at 9:08:14 AM

Yeah, definitely saving this to use in the future.

Not sure I can comment on the examples, though, because as a trifecta of things I don't like I'm inclined to crush them all on principle.

Yaaaaaay, more Nostalgia Critic shit. This entry on part of Critic's character page feels a bit....too much? And this is after I edited out things that were just straight up not examples. (Frankly, I don't think a lot of this is even explicitly an example. Just things the fandom really got into.)

• Fetish: Plenty. As stated in a few reviews; masochism, being humiliated, dildos, roleplay, bondage, fingering, licking whipped cream off a hot body, the Chick's firey temper and six-breasted cats from outer space. Plus he's mixed between knowing Eyes Wide Shut style orgies are creepy and abusive, but also wanting one to happen to him.

For the record, the last one comes from this review (transcript is SFW, but Doug Walker is shirtless in the thumbnail) which actually is an example of him embracing a fetish, but it's played more as a punchline to the review. I'm not quite sure if he even calls the orgies abusive, per se?

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 18th 2020 at 11:32:23 AM

Here's HoYay.Franklin... Also, I'm about to take this page to Image Pickin.

There are definitely some "puzzling" moments in this cartoon. Including some Parental Bonuses.

• Sweet maple flapjacks, Franklin and Bear. Their close "friendship" and all the "best friends" talk really crosses the line of "Heterosexual" Life Partners. There are definitely a number of shippers in the production crew who could imagine them as a couple when they grow up.
  • Franklin has his moments, but Bear has many questionable moments. Why he only wants to hang out with Franklin all the time is anyone's guess. Franklin is with everyone but the only times Bear hangs out with anyone else is when it also involves Franklin. He follows Franklin everywhere and only stops talking to him when Franklin makes him really upset. But, being Bear, Franklin is always Easily Forgiven, no matter what. Almost like he can't live without him.
  • Whenever Bear doesn't hang out with Franklin, the show itself plays this off as "wrong" and Franklin gets upset and tries to fix things by getting Bear to hang out with him again. It's okay for Franklin to hang out with others but when Bear hangs out with others, excluding Franklin, it's against status quo. Examples would be "Franklin Says Sorry", "Franklin Goes to Day Camp", "Franklin and the Pinecone Pass", "Franklin and the Secret Club", "Franklins' Firefighter Flapjacks", etc.
  • In "Franklin's Valentines", Franklin makes heartfelt valentines for all of his friends. Usually, boys don't give other boys "traditional" valentine cards (traditional as in, pink and red colored hearts with glitter and pastel colors), but Bear and Franklin take this Up To Eleven. We see Bear's card to Franklin that has the two of them sitting under a tree surrounded by hearts, no biggie. But then we see Franklin's card to Bear and it is full of hearts with Cupid's arrows (which implies Puppy Love!) and a drawing of Franklin and Bear making up two halves of a heart with wings. Take of that as you will. (Note: This isn't visible in the TV show, but you can see it in the book version.) They might just be kids, but this is really pushing it...
  • In the episode "Franklin and the Baby" where Bear’s baby sister Beatrice is born, the last scene is played out as if the baby was Franklin and Bear’s baby! Franklin sits down while Bear stands next to him and they both hold the baby while looking into each other’s eyes, making it look like Franklin is the mom◊ and Bear is the dad!◊ There is no way that this was unintentional.
  • And from the same episode above, because Bear's parents were going to deliver the baby, Bear gets to sleep over at Franklin's house. A fairly innocent scene for kids with hidden meanings that can be caught by older viewers. They stay up late at night, playing quietly as to not wake Franklin's parents. Franklin and Bear are then seen to be "playing with themselves" (literally)◊, but adults know the Double Entendre here. Then, Franklin and Bear are "playing under the covers"◊, curiously hiding what they are doing under the sheets, complete with Bear yet again tickling Franklin. ^note Not to mention that they actually knock the chair down.◊ Looks more like the creators seriously just snuck in G-Rated Sex here! No. Just no. About to cut this.
  • The entirety of "Franklin Goes to Day Camp". When Franklin goes to day camp, he and Bear partner up together for the activities, but also lets a character named Possum join them when he has no partner. However, as Franklin discovers that Possum only wants to play with Bear, he gets jealous of Possum stealing all of Bear's attention. After getting in trouble, he cries over losing Bear. While the others are making friendship bracelets, he worries that Bear and Possum will be "new best friends" if they exchange theirs and begs the coach to let him make one for Bear. Upon seeing them exchanging bracelets, Franklin gets upset again until Bear comes and says that they were just showing each other their bracelets and that his is for Franklin. Bear also like to routinely tickle Franklin, in a rather unusual position...◊, parents' eyebrows were indeed raised. Also, Franklin and Bear partner up. On the bus, there's this moment...wait, WHAT???
  • "Franklin and the Pinecone Pass" has Franklin excited to play a game with Bear, but finds Bear playing with Rabbit. When Bear would rather play Rabbit's game, Franklin instantly gets jealous and tries to get Bear to play with him. When that doesn't work, he plays his game with Snail instead but focuses more on trying to get Bear's attention, almost as if he is trying to make Bear jealous. When Fox comes and sees everyone else playing, Franklin laments his fear of Bear having a "new best friend" in Rabbit, but Fox thinks it's silly because he and Rabbit don't always play together despite being best friends, which shows Franklin that "best friends" can still play with other friends. Franklin feels better in the end after Bear says that he will always be Franklin's "best friend."
  • "Franklin Has A Sleepover" has Sam and Bunny riding on a train and gives us the "lovely" image seen above. This happens when the camera closes up on them and this happens more than once! And if you thought that the images and Gifs on the Main page were bad, guess what? IT GETS WORSE! (And way more obvious.)◊ Are they trying to imply something by using Franklin and Bear's plush toys? I can cut this one, right?
  • In one of the video games, Bear stops Franklin to make him play "Red Light, Green Light". Franklin sneaks up while Bear is pushing himself against a log and then turns around. When Franklin succeeds, he smacks Bear in his butt. Bear made up a game just so he could get Franklin to touch his butt. Yeah, at this point they're not even trying to hide it anymore. Cutting this one.
  • In "Franklin's New Hat", Franklin was blinded by his sister's hat during musical chairs and accidentally sat on Bear's lap.
  Bear: Uhh, Franklin, I am not a chair...
  • In "Franklin and the Turtle Lake Treasure," we are introduced to Franklin's Aunt Lucy and her goddaughter Sam. After getting off to a bad start, Franklin is encouraged by his parents to try being nice to her. Because of this, he starts hanging out with Sam more than Bear, Beaver, and Snail. Beaver and Snail have no problem with this, but Bear grows jealous every time Franklin chooses her over him. Eventually, after Franklin chooses to team up with Sam instead of Bear to look around for Granny Turtle's time capsule, Bear gets upset and walks off. When Franklin goes to talk to him, Bear complains about Franklin forgetting about them and always being nice to Sam, even going as far as to call Sam his "girlfriend," almost as if he is jealous of them being together. Also, at the end of the movie, they share a hug. Platonic hugging. Someone's reading into this too hard.
• Franklin and Fox are good friends who are also competitive rivals but then there are times when they are very close friends and end up with Foe Yay.
  • In "Hurry Up, Franklin", when Franklin shows off the things he collected, Fox gets up close and handsy with Franklin.
• Beaver and Goose are very close as well. Also, Fox and Rabbit have their moments.

That image is such a bad choice. How do we know the stuffed animals are the same gender, for one?

While Ouroboros (RPG) appears to have enough plot to have a trope page (especially as the pornographic content can apparently be patched out), the second paragraph has this weird spoilered-out "content warnings" section like it's tagging a fanfiction, in which it details the specific kinds of porn in the page, including using the...controversial slang "dickgirl." (It also has problems with excessive spoiler-tagging but that's besides the point, and I've never played or even heard of this game so I have no idea what's safe to un-spoiler or not.)

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 30th 2020 at 12:38:41 PM

Yeah, I don't think we do Content Warnings here. Leave that for the game's download page. And I know that we can't spoiler tag things in the page description, so I just deleted the last paragraph from it.

Good riddance, especially because of the transmisogyny.

I'm guessing this is the right place to ask about this: I've discovered a troper who links to their DeviantArt account on their page, with a mini trope page for their art, and they link to specific drawings next to tropes that apply to those drawings. The issue is, several of these drawings are fetish art, albeit not overtly sexual fetish art unless you know that the fetishes (tickling, trapping characters in tanks or bottles, and quicksand) exist. The drawings aren't behind DA's mature content filter. Is this allowed?

(I don't want to name names yet in case the not-obviously-sexual nature of these pictures makes them okay for the troper to link to; I don't want them getting harassed.)

I think as long as it isn't explicitly porn it's okay, unless the characters are underage, cuz then we may need to get stricter.

The characters are Pokémon (not human characters from the franchise, but the creatures), so it's kind of hard to judge age there.

Do you think I should post on ATT or the main P5 thread or somewhere else more visible to get more opinions + moderators might notice?

I really hope I don't sound like I'm shaming this person or anyone like them for having uncommon interests; I just want to ascertain that the wiki's rules are being followed properly. I hope that makes sense.

Does the Grisaia Series of visual novels violate the 5P policy? It's practically hentai disguised as a melodramatic plot of psychological issues and corruption, and having read all three of the original trilogy in their true 18+ forms, they're not afraid to delve into sex scenes that really border on Squick. In The Fruit of Grisaia, one of the heroines is an under-aged loli who the main character has sex with. In The Labyrinth of Grisaia, the main character essentially rapes his future boss on orders from his master. And finally, in The Eden of Grisaia, the main character has sex with his own mother. And that's not even counting the many opportunities the series likes to throw on a regular basis.

I get these VNs are somewhat popular on the site, but the implications here really make me question if they're really NSFW. What do you think?

Edited by DivineFlame100 on Dec 2nd 2020 at 4:17:32 AM

Does it have a sfw release?

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, all three Grisaia VNs have SFW releases on Steam and the Nintendo Switch. I'm not sure about Grisaia: Phantom Trigger though, since I never got around to reading it.

Well then pages are fine then. Just specify it's the sfw version

Should I add commented out notes on each of the pages, then?