To-do list:
- Since Bokukko is now a Definition-Only Page, wicks that use it as a trope must either be replaced with a more fitting trope listed on the page (Expository Pronoun, She Is the King, and/or Tomboy), or removed if they don't fit any other tropes. Inline wicks that simply reference the term can stay.
OP by Ayumi-chan
Bokukko, according to its description, is about a girl who uses masculine pronouns (in Japanese, the pronoun "boku" is often used by young boys and men but it is used girls who have tomboyish personalities). But that has me wondering if a girl who uses just masculine terms is trope worthy.
Here are the results of the wick check:
- A girl who uses Japanese masculine pronouns and has some context - (15/50)
- A girl who just uses Japanese masculine pronouns - (16/50)
- Others (ZCE, pothole etc.) - (19/50)
The main problem with this trope isn't just the chairs-y examples but also the amount of ZCEs. This is because anyone not familiar with Japanese pronouns would be wondering how the trope is applied than just a simple acknowledgement of it.
Possible solutions:
- Expand the trope to include a girl who uses masculine pronouns in any language (not just Japanese) as suggested here (Not sure it would solve the PCE and Chairs-y examples)
- Disambig the trope between Tomboy, Expository Pronoun and Japanese Pronouns (among other possible tropes)
- Make the page Definition Only
Wick check:
A wick check for the Bokukko trope to see if it has any problems.(50/50)
- A girl who uses Japanese masculine pronouns and has some context - (15/50)
- A girl who just uses Japanese masculine pronouns - (16/50)
- Others (ZCE, pothole etc.) - (19/50)
- Characters.Deltarune Susie/ Bokukko: Actually, "Ore Onna"; in the Japanese localization, she uses the pronoun "ore", which is considered even more masculine than the usual tomboy pronoun of "boku", and she speaks like a young hooligan in general. She briefly drops it when she first meets Toriel and tries really, really hard to be polite, instead using "atashi".
- Characters.A Certain Magical Index Academy City Leadership (Aiho Yomikawa)/ Bokukko: She has a very relaxed and somewhat masculine style of speech, as shown by her use of "boku".
- Characters.Hololive Japan Generation Four (Amane Kanata)/ Bokukko: As a shy angel school girl who pretends to be cool, she usually uses boku to refer to herself. She once did a challenge where she was to only use "atashi" to refer to herself and if she failed she would end the stream, which ended quite early.
- Characters.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Steel Ball Run (Hot Pants)/ Bokukko: Tended to use Japanese male pronouns to keep up her Sweet Polly Oliver facade. After the reveal, she started to use gender-neutral pronouns instead.
- Characters.Magical Warfare (Momoka Shijou)/ Bokukko: Uses "boku" to refer to herself in conversations reflecting her tomboyish nature despite her feminine appearance.
- Characters.Sailor Moon Dead Moon Circus (Jun Jun)/Bokukko: She is described by Takeuchi as a vulgar "Yankee"—Japanese slang for a delinquent or rebellious youth—and uses very informal male speech.
- Characters.Kenichi The Mightiest Disciple Ryozanpaku Dojo (Shigure Kōsaka)/ Bokukko: She uses the masculine pronoun boku to refer to herself, which serves to contrast her with other female characters.
- Characters.Cardcaptor Sakura (Yuuki Tachibana)/ Bokukko: She uses the masculine pronoun "boku" to refer to herself, which is one of the reasons she's mistaken for a boy.
- Characters.Frame Arms Girls (Hresvelgr)/ Bokukko: She uses "Boku" as her pronoun, signifying her Blood Knight tendencies and her love for battles.
- Characters.Kill La Kill Nui Harime/ Bokukko: In the original Japanese Dub, she uses the masculine pronoun "boku". Unlike most examples, however, she's an adorable, pink-wearing Girly Bruiser, on top of being a remorseless psychopath. Because it's a masculine pronoun, no one suspects anything when she refers to herself as "boku" while disguised as a male student.
- Characters.Mushoku Tensei Jobless Reincarnation (Sylphiette)/ Bokukko: She refers to herself as "boku" when she meets Rudeus. This, along with her short hair, causes him to mistake her for a boy. In her teenage years, she uses "boku" when disguised as a boy.
- Characters.Grimoire Of Zero (Albus)/ Bokukko: Albus uses "boku", a first-person pronoun mainly used by young boys, when she talks because she's posing as a boy.
- Characters.Symphogear Song And Affiliates (Elfnein)/ Bokukko: Uses boku to refer to herself. This may be a reflection of her rather ambiguous gender.
- Characters.Miss Kobayashis Dragon Maid Dragons (Lucoa)/ Bokukko: Despite being female — and extremely feminine-looking at that — she refers to herself in Japanese with "boku", a masculine pronoun. Possibly a reference to the fact that her namesake is male in the original Aztec mythology.
- Characters.Ikki Tousen (Bachou Mouki (Ma Chao))/ Bokukko: She uses the masculine pronoun "Boku" to refer to herself, common to tomboyish types in Japanese media.
- Characters.Armed Girls Machiavellism (Satori Tamaba)/ Bokukko: When she drops the Third-Person Person, she calls herself "boku".
- Characters.Corpse Party (Corpse Part- ANTHOLOGY/ Ran Kobayashi)/ Bokukko: A fairly girly one, but one all the same.
- Characters.Granblue Fantasy Zodiac Characters (Andira)/ Bokukko: Refers to herself as "Boku".
- Characters.Is It Wrong To Try To Pick Up Girls In A Dungeon Hestia Familia (Hestia)/Bokukko: She uses the Japanese male pronoun boku to refer to herself when talking.
- Characters.Trails Series Erebonia Thors Class VII Original (Millium Orion)/ Bokukko: She refers to herself with the masculine pronoun "boku" in the original Japanese script.
- Characters.Tokyo Xanadu Morimiya City (Rem)/ Bokukko: She uses "boku" in her speech.
- Characters.Hitoribocchi No OO Seikatsu (Tsuyoshi Nozomu)/ Bokukko: Uses boku when referring to herself.
- Characters.Chivalry Of A Failed Knight Hagun Academy (Renren Tomaru)/ Bokukko: Uses the pronoun "Boku" when addressing herself.
- Characters.Dragon Quest XI Other Characters (Mia)/ Bokukko: She uses the masculine pronoun "Ore" in the Japanese version.
- Characters.Lycoris Recoil Main Characters (Kurumi)/ Bokukko: She uses "boku" to refer to herself in the Japanese dub.
- Characters.Love Live Niji Gaku (Mia Taylor)/ Bokukko: She uses the boyish "boku" when referring to herself in first-person in Japanese.
- Characters.Kan Colle One (Kamikaze-Class/ Matsukaze)/ Bokukko: Makes use of the masculine pronoun "Boku".
- Characters.Fire Emblem Gaiden Alms Party (Delthea)/ Bokukko: Uses the boyish first-person pronoun "boku" to refer to herself in the Japanese version.
- Characters.Demon King Daimao (Lily Shirashi)/ Bokukko: She uses the masculine personal pronoun of "Boku."
- Characters.Pri Para Dressing Pafe (Dorothy and Reona West)/ Bokukko: Dorothy always uses "boku" when referring to herself.
- Characters.Reborn 2004 The Arcobaleno (Lal Mirch)/ Bokukko: She uses masculine pronouns. worth noting that it's commented out
- Characters.Kimikiss (Asuka Sakino)/ Bokukko: She is the token "sporty girl" of the group. doesn't state she uses Japanese masculine pronouns
- Characters.Super Heroine Chronicle (Original Characters/ Noel Kazamatsuri)/ Bokukko ZCE
- Characters.Hetalia Axis Powers The Axis (Italy Veneziano)/ Bokukko: Subverted. When he was a child, Holy Roman Empire and Austria thought that he was a girl who just used boku to refer to "herself", when in fact, he was a boy who wore dresses at the time. misuse
- Characters.Kinos Journey (Kino)/ Ambiguous Gender Identity: It's eventually revealed that Kino was born female, but Kino appears to deliberately choose gender-neutral language and reject being addressed as a girl. There is occasionally debate in the fandom whether Kino is best understood as a tomboyish Bokukko, non-binary, or transmasculine. Kino is Kino. pothole
- Characters.Lucky Star (Misao Kusakabe)/ Bokukko: She's pretty much the stereotypical tomboy of the show and written to represent that. unsure because it doesn't mention if she uses "boku"
- Characters.Kandagawa Jet Girls (Fuka Tamaki)/ Bokukko: Part of her personality change is the use of this. "X is this"-type of Word Cruft ZCE
- Characters.Digimon Fusion Midnight Army (Sparrowmon)/ Bokukko ZCE; In fact, it's commented out
- Characters.Ef A Fairy Tale Of The Two (Nagi Hirono)/ Bokukko: "Watashi" is three syllables, making it too long! "Boku" has two — isn't it perfect?! ZCE; In fact, it's commented out
- Characters.Disgaea Novels (Ozonne)/ Bokukko ZCE; In fact, it's commented out
- Characters.Blaz Blue Non Player Characters (Linhua)/ Bokukko: In the Japanese version. ZCE
- Characters.Daily Life With Monster Girl Online (Tsen the Lightweight Centaur)/ Bokukko ZCE; In fact, it's commented out
- Fate/Grand Order - Assassins N to Z ( Ryougi Shiki)/ Bifauxnen: Often described as both "handsome" and "beautiful," although she definitely possesses a very feminine figure in the movies. In the novel, she is described as looking and sounding fairly androgynous. In addition she uses aggressive masculine pronouns as part of the masculine persona she adapts to compensate for SHIKI's loss. pothole
- Characters.Yuusha Gojo Kumiai Kouryuugata Keijiban (Wandering Sword)/ Bokukko: ZCE; In fact, it's commented out
- Characters.Foot 2 Rue (The Rifflers - Eloise Riffler)/ Bokukko ZCE
- Characters.Power Instinct (Power Instinct Matrimelee - Hikaru Jomon)/ Bokukko ZCE; In fact, it's commented out
- Anime.Saber Marionette R/ Bokukko: Lime, fitting for her status as a Cute Bruiser Genki Girl. unsure because it makes no mentions of her using masculine pronouns other than the trope itself
- Manga.Kanamemo/ Bokukko: Hinata ZCE; In fact, it's commented out
- ShipperOnDeck.Video Games/ The Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War mangas bring up several of these, too. In the Oosawa manga Ethlyn, Quan and Ayra ship Finn with Lachesis, while Adean ships her Unlucky Childhood Friend Azelle with his other female friend Tailtiu, and Annand ships Lewyn with her little sister Erinys. OTOH, in the Fujimori version Dew ships Adean hard with her bodyguard Midir. pothole
- Characters.Pokemon Horizons The Series Supporting Cast (Nidothing)/ Tomboy: She has a very masculine appearance, and uses masculine Japanese pronouns to refer to herself. pothole
Possible solutions:
- Expand the trope to include a girl who uses masculine pronouns in any language (not just Japanese) as suggested here (Not sure it would solve the PCE and Chairs-y examples)
- Disambig the trope between Tomboy, Expository Pronoun and Japanese Pronouns (among other possible tropes)
- Make the page Definition Only
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 8th 2023 at 11:04:32 AM
Pinging ~Ayumi-chan.
I can see this being definition only.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportAlready saw on the main page,
Anyways, Definitely think this can be def-only.
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/AYeah, this is basically just a symptom of Tomboy, where a masculine female uses masculine terms.
Definition-only
Come play Character Uplift Game!I say disambig
Def only
Definition-Only is fine
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation projectWasn't a fan of doing anything at first, but the "just a symptom of Tomboy" argument won me over, so def-only + disambiguation on-page sounds good.
Edited by Amonimus on Oct 25th 2023 at 1:31:08 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupFor context, I asked the chatterbox thread in the forums if this term saw non-tvt offsite use and got this response [1]
So with that in mind, to def only/moving examples elsewhere.
Yeah, this seems like a def only Fan Speak page.
Tagged the page. I'm fine with definition-only, but we could still have a disambiguation-style list at the bottom of the page like we do with other definition-only pages.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.She/Her | Currently cleaning N/A
Support making it definition-only.
+1 to make it defintion-only
Definition-only
Kirby is awesome.We got enough consensus. Calling in favor of Definition Only.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportHere are some options for the disambig style trope list at the bottom:
Anything else?
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/APossibly Gender Dynamics Index and Gender and Sexuality Tropes. The traditionally feminine pronoun atashi is sometimes used by Camp Gay males, but I don't know without looking it up if the reverse is true of boku.
Cleaned up the Anime/ and Characters/ (A-F) namespaces. Kept the potholes per the Definition-only page.
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/AFinished the G-R section of the Characters/ namespace.
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/AAdded applicable tropes to the page (though omitted Japanese Pronouns since don’t list useful notes pages as examples). Feel free to add more tropes if need be.
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/AFinished the Characters/ namespace. What should I do with the DarthWiki/, should I leave them alone or also dewick them?
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/AWicks on Unpublished Works pages that use it as a trope definitely need to be removed or replaced, but other Darth pages (if there are any) presumably have inline wicks, so we could keep any inline wicks that simply reference the term.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
To-do list:
OP by Ayumi-chan
Bokukko, according to its description, is about a girl who uses masculine pronouns (in Japanese, the pronoun "boku" is often used by young boys and men but it is used girls who have tomboyish personalities). But that has me wondering if a girl who uses just masculine terms is trope worthy.
Here are the results of the wick check:
The main problem with this trope isn't just the chairs-y examples but also the amount of ZCEs. This is because anyone not familiar with Japanese pronouns would be wondering how the trope is applied than just a simple acknowledgement of it.
Possible solutions:
Wick check:
A wick check for the Bokukko trope to see if it has any problems.(50/50)
Possible solutions:
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 8th 2023 at 11:04:32 AM
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report