Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Yoda; this seems no different than the many Complete Monster candidates we rejected because the lethal consequences of their plans were rendered Fridge Horror (like game!Ghetsis).
Nay to Yoda.
Alright, I'll be doing my Cyberpunk candidate soon enough, but what say I dive right into a particularly delightful and insane manga?
What's the work?
Golden Kamuy is an adventure manga by Satoru Noda. Set in 1907 in Hokkaido, it centers on a Japanese soldier named Saichi Sugimoto, better known as "Sugimoto the Immortal." Down on his luck and dishonorably discharged into Hokkaido with a woman he's long been in love with desperately in need of medical treatment, Sugimoto discovers rumor of a hidden stash of Ainu gold, its map hidden on the tattoos of many convicted criminals, and allies with the legendary "escape king" Yoshitake Shiraishi and Little Miss Badass Asirpa to track down the criminals and the gold.
This is a manga full of complex and cunning characters, and what say we start with Sugimoto?
Who is Saichi Sugimoto?
- A Japanese soldier dishonorably discharged for nearly beating a commanding officer to death over an argument who burned down his own home as a child after his father died of tuberculosis, Sugimoto makes alliances to hunt down the hidden Ainu gold. Haunted by his past but totally willing to kill, Sugimoto runs into the rogue 7th Division, led by the wicked and maddening Lieutenant Tsurumi. Escaping them through deft ploys and evading both Tsurumi and his other enemy, the cunning Toshizo Hijikata, Sugimoto continues on his journey and picks up other allies, like Kiroranke and a redeemed 7th Division soldier named Tanigaki Genjirou, he collects a number of skins but ends up recognizing that he needs to find the man responsible for it all to easily find it: "Noppera-Bou," the mysterious criminal who flayed his own face off and tattooed the map onto his fellow convicts. Also, Sugimoto fights and kills hostile bears during this general time period. A lot of bears.
- Sugimoto and Hijikata's crews ally to infiltrate Abashiri Prison in the hopes of finding Noppera-Bou... the plan goes wrong very quickly, but Sugimoto does manage to successfully find Noppera-Bou and discover that he is Asirpa's father Wilk, who raised his daughter to be a soldier for his own goals. Caught up in anger, Sugimoto is helpless as he is betrayed by Kiroranke and Wilk is shot... before Sugimoto himself takes a gunshot to the head and Kiroranke reteats with Asirpa.
- Sugimoto, now dealing with brain damage, searches for Asirpa and the gold with his new allies. Eventually, he ends up having to work with the Yamada Circus Troupe as an ingenious method to send a message to Asirpa. Though his enemies swap out the fake sword for his "hara-kiri" trick with a real blade, aiming to kill him, Sugimoto manages to harm himself just enough, stalling the time out, for them to act— and Sugimoto makes his move, killing the lot of them and making it look like it was All Part of the Show. Sugimoto reunites with Asirpa, Kiroranke is killed by Genjirou, and they continue on including a brief alliance with the outlaw "Boutarou the Pirate." With another alliance in hand, Sugimoto and Toshizo end up finding the gold's location despite many obstacles.
- With half the gold already spent, Sugimoto and Hijikata's crew, now one for good, end up facing the remains of the 7th Division in a brutal battle on the train. Tsurumi and Sugimoto's nemesis Ogata both meet their fates, and Sugimoto seems to take a watery plunge to his death while fighting Tsurumi... only to return very much alive, proving himself "the Immortal" once and for all. Discovering that the woman he loved has already married into wealth and been treated, Sugimoto retires to live a peaceful life in Hokkaido.
Is Sugimoto magnificent?
Sugimoto's not perfect. He can get caught up in emotion, deeply upset, and the butt of the joke quite often. Not to mention he flies into some genuine rages, makes a few comically stupid decisions, and is notably immature. But when he gets to work? Oh, boy. Sugimoto is a fucking nightmare for his enemies, a tactical genius who can fool his foes with clever ploys. Whether it's hiding in a cart to make a daring escape, coming up with new and innovative ways to kill enormous bears and off his enemies, or managing to take out his would-be assassins while making it look like it's All Part of the Show, Sugimoto is absolutely genius. This is only more impressive when one considers that he takes brain damage part of the way throughout the story and is clearly afflicted by mental illness and PTSD even beforehand. Sugimoto's quick thinking and uncanny knack for solving problems in unorthodox ways serve him very well and ultimately serve a huge role in helping his crew's survivors walk away alive.
Is Sugimoto a bastard?
Eh, he's not the worst person ever but it's made very explicit that Sugimoto is a ruthless and violent person. He attacks people without warning at times and basically lives to fight despite hating to kill, it's clear he considers himself a monster as of the war with heavy implications that his actions left his hands very dirty and, probably most importantly, he nearly beat an officer to death during a verbal argument. That said, he's the hero, works on controlling that explosive temper, and obviously is deeply protective of his found family.
Conclusion?
I say "yes," and there's at least four more I can say are on the way.
Edited by Riley1sCool on Mar 29th 2024 at 8:43:35 AM
I suppose no to Yoda.
Yes to Saichi however. Is your Cyberpunk character a minor one or a big name? I had one more big name Cyberpunk character I was thinking about, namely Rache Bartmoss.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Mar 28th 2024 at 8:23:27 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
I am certainly not doing Bartmoss.
There seems to be a bit of edge to that statement. Do you think he doesn't count?
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
No, I'm just not doing him. No "edge" there.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Sugimoto and a more cautious one to Infinities Yoda.
Gonna have to bring up a point on Mizrahi, though - a really big part of his character is that he has a very bad habit of trusting the wrong people. Most of the series' major villains were close associates of his, and he doesn't realize they're pulling the wool over his eyes until it's too late. His damage control is admittedly very impressive considering it was all come up with on the fly, but the baddies still successfully leave him holding the bag for the whole thing and he's posthumously remembered as the worst mass murderer in galactic history.
Really unsure. Abstain, I guess.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Alright. I'm kinda sad I misses him in the initial run. I mostly looked over 2077 where he was already dead, but looking more into him shows he does have serious potential.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Mar 28th 2024 at 8:30:03 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The MILF Virus
Worth remembering a lot of villains got tricked, Wilheim with most of U-TIC, and the Testaments, and even Yuriev has been fooled before despite supposedly knowing so much.
What seperates Joachim is he's aware he can't trust most of them since the events with Federation, but has no real choice. When dealing with the Federation, he needed to pull shady moments to get ahead, forming U-TIC. The issue is he didn't know how far they'd go, Joachim warned them the dangers constantly with the Zohar and U-DO. He couldn't comprehend Kevin and Sellers endangering the entire universe until it was too late, and swiftly rebounded.
Less "I was fooled", more "You willing to go that far!?". Considering the scope of his threats, it's actually impressive how much he contained and outsmarted. Entrusting the Y-Data on MOMO also indicate he was prepared for them betraying him in-case so he wasn't completely blind and his words with her indicate he knew what he did was the only way to truly save the Universe long-term.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
Fair points. I can give a yes.
for Saichi Sugumoto.
Switching to abstain on Yoda.
Goku Black
saichi.
Yoda. Ah right I heard of this comic. Also think adding civilian casualties here is maybe over thinking things for whats just meant as a cool action scence.
Honestly I'll say yes to Yoda.
Also yes to Sugimoto.
Jogo
Sugimoto
Abstain on Yoda
What is the work?
Juno Songs is a YouTube channel that posts lyrical covers of songs from Video Games, including songs from the Kirby series, which will be our topic for today.We're going to be talking about two videos related to Kirbys Return To Dreamland Deluxe. One of them is a compilation that features all the songs featured in Return to Dreamland's endgame, including two remasters of Welcome Your New Overlord and Crowned, and the other video is a cover of Tree Crown Without A Ruler and Settling the Score from Deluxe's Magolor Epilogue Mode.
With the info above and if you're familiar with the source material, you can probably guess who we're talking about.
Who is Magolor and what has he done?
Just like his original counterpart, Magolor is an alien who tries to steal the Master Crown to use its power to conquer the universe.- Prior to the events of the songs, Magolor tried to steal the Master Crown by fighting Landia, but lost his battle and was forced to flee to Planet Popstar. With the Lor Starcutter damaged when he arrived at Planet Popstar, Magolor came up with the idea to manipulate Kirby and his pals into rebuilding the Lor Starcutter for him and defeating Landia.
- When our heroes manage to defeat the four-headed dragon, Magolor reveals himself to the heroes and steals the Master Crown before explaining his evil plan to Kirby and friends. After finishing his monologue, Magolor creates a portal to Another Dimension and decides to make Popstar the first of the planets he'll conquer using the Master Crown's power as a "thank you" gift for repairing the Starcutter and helping him with the scheme.
- Kirby and the others chase Magolor into Another Dimension and when they manage to catch up to him, Magolor summons the newly weaponized Lor Starcutter to defeat the heroes that are trying to stop his plans. When our heroes manage to defeat the Lor Starcutter, Magolor shoots energy balls at Landia, causing the heroes to fall from their dragons before Magolor decides to kill them himself. During his fight, Magolor states that Kirby has outlived his usefulness, that he's impressed by his bravado, and that he's genuinely grateful for him repairing his ship.
- Kirby uses the Ultra Sword to defeat Magolor, but the Master Crown has other plans for the magician as it takes control of his body while Magolor starts realizing that he's being turned into a puppet by the crown. Magolor starts to regret using Kirby as a tool for his evil scheme, pleas with Kirby to defeat him, and the crown and hopes that Kirby will eventually forgive him and that they'll be friends again one day as Magolor is banished to "Space's Hell" to set up the events of Magolor Epilogue.
- In between the two videos, the events of Magolor Epilogue seemingly happen offscreen as Magolor "worked to recover his magic" throughout his trip throughout "Space's Hell". Unfortunately for Magolor, the crown possesses the Gem Apple and turns into a giant Gem Apple tree to fight Magolor. In order to atone for his sins and to stop the Master Crown's reign of terror once and for all, Magolor fights the Master Crown and states he'll do anything to defeat the Crown and seek reception.
- Once Magolor has dealt enough damage to the Crown to temporarily subdue it, he grabs a nearby sword and, through his sheer desire for redemption combined with his magic powers, makes it grow into a replica of Kirby's Ultra Sword. Magolor jumps towards the Tree Crown to deal the finishing blow and earn his redemption by freeing the seed from its control, as he states the Crown can't control him anymore. Magolor's sword slices the Master Crown in half, putting a definitive end to the Crown's reign of terror.
- And that's it for the Return to Dreamland Deluxe songs, though I should note that there are (to my knowledge) two other songs where Magolor makes an appearance:
- One is a remaster of ''Macho of Dedede'' from Kirby Star Allies, where Magolor assists Kirby in Dedede-feating the swoled up king, seemingly fulfilling his promise within Tree Crown that he'll "be there when Kirby needs him", but he doesn't have any lyrics within the song and there isn't anything worth mentioning from it.
- His other appearance is within a cover of Crowned from the ''Unfair Magolor Soul'' mod for the original game. In this appearance, Magolor is way more where he's hyperactive, references memes several times and is ultimately defeated by Kirbo slapping him. I don't think this song should be taken as canon to the Return to Dreamland (Deluxe) songs since it's a more or less intented as a joke cover; it's about a song from a Game Mod for the original game instead of a song from the official Kirby games and the song breaks the fourth wall a few times (including Unfair Magolor Soul mentioning they "copied [him] in the remake").
- One is a remaster of ''Macho of Dedede''
Is he magnificent?
While Magolor Collection DX skips straight to the end of the Landia fight, I'd say that the speech where he explains his plans with the flashback images to earlier moments within Return to Dreamland's story and some of the lyrics within the songs do enough to illustrate Magolor's scheming from the original game, including the one below:"I could make the trip,"
"Make you slay the beast,"
"And set the power free."
Magolor's also a little arrogant, but that arrogance isn't disqualifying in my eyes as he's able to back up said arrogance due to him being a skilled manipulator, given that he manages to manipulate Kirby and his friends (none of them idiots, mind you) into helping him with his scheme, and he's a genuinely good fighter even without the godlike power of the Master Crown.
Magolor does scream at the end of Welcome Your New Overlord, but this isn't migating either, as he had received several slashes from Kirby's Ultra Sword and his body had explosions all over it, so I think it was more Magolor screaming because of the pain inflicted on him by Kirby's slashes rather him having a Villainous Breakdown.
Magolor's possession and transformation into a puppet by the Master Crown is a black mark against him, as he got turned into a puppet through his own desire for power and calls himself a fool for manipulating Kirby while he shows regret for his manipulation of him. However, I don't think it disqualifies him given that he only gets turned into a puppet by the Crown after he was already defeated by Kirby's Ultra Sword, quickly manages to catch on what the Crown is doing to him, and most importantly of all, I'd say Magolor does enoguh to bounce back from that setback by realizing his flaws and trying to overcome them (as indicated by the lyrics of Mistiltein) and is also the one who ultimately destroys the Master Crown by using his magic powers and sheer desire for redemption by transforming an ordinary sword into his own version of Kirby's Ultra Sword.
Lastly, I do believe the videos have a substantial enough plot, as the first video is essentially a musical adaptation of Return to Dreamland (Deluxe)'s finale that also teases the events of Magolor Epilogue. While taking Tree Crown without a Ruler on its own it doesn't have a substantial enough plot in my eyes, I ultimately think that the song's meant to be seen as an extension of the Magolor Collection DX, which does have a substantial enough plot, as both of the videos cover songs from the same game and the ending of Magolor Collection DX features a shot from Magolor Epilogue's intro cutscene, so I don't think it's crazy to assume these videos exist in the same continuity.
Is he a bastard?
He tricked Kirby and his friends into giving him the powers he needs to Take Over the World and tries to kill them once they attempt to stop his plans. I also don't think he's too much of a bastard either, since his plan is a generic "Take Over the World" plot on a universal scale, and he eventually undergoes a Heel–Face Turn where he rejects the Master Crown and his desire for power.Final verdict?
There are a few bumps in Magolor's journey, but I think he manages to do enough to overcome said bumps, so Egg Judas gets a "yes" from me. Happy Easter everybody!Edited by jlvs200s on Apr 2nd 2024 at 11:19:25 AM
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Sugimoto and Magolor
Honestly still to Yoda. I don't think it's full-on fridge horror if we see him crash it into the planet.
to Saichi
Yes to Sugimoto and Magolor but no to Yoda... if it's just in Inferred Holocaust territory it feels like the equivalent to upvoting someone on CM from a kids work who onscreen just destroys buildings. What writers choose to emphasize is important and if there's no note of civilian death I don't want to just assume it was a brutal Well-Intentioned Extremist move. It's not quite to the point of Live Action Optimus explicitly letting humans die to prove to the world how evil the Decepticons are.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Saichi
Yoda
Lord
Got some girl power for you here.
What's the work?
Whitby Witches by Robin Jarvis, for which I've recently created an article of which I'm very proud and I've already had a Complete Monster approved for it. But enough of blowing my own horn. The Whitby Witches is a very trope heavy work of Lovecraft Lite and it's only lite by virtue of the fact that it ultimately has a surprisingly happy ending. Aside from that, like most of Jarvis's work it falls squarely under What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?.
Who's the character?
Rosalyn Crozier, High Priestess of the Coven of the Black Sceptre, better known by her alias of Rowena Cooper is a powerful and intelligent witch. Bride of the vile Nathaniel Crozier and second in command of his polygamous cult, she is by far his most competent minion but unbeknownst to him, yearns for freedom from his control. Learning of a great power in the seaside town of Whitby which he wants to govern for himself, Nathaniel sends Rosalyn to find it for him. Under the name of Rowena Cooper, a glamorous newcomer, she insinuates herself into the town's local society and quickly wins everyone over with her good-looks, charisma, charm and sophistication, even seemingly renovating a dilapidated house to make it look as good as new, when in actuality, she's used her magic to cast a glamour over it.
In the first book of the trilogy, Rowena is the Big Bad, seeking the Moonkelp, the lost treasure of the gods of the sea. Whoever acquires the Moonkelp has the right to ask the gods for a wish, in exchange for having returned their stolen treasure. Rowena wants to wish to know the location of the Staff of Hilda, a phenomenally powerful relic forged by the sorceress Saint Hilda with which she seeks to free herself from Nathaniel's control and potentially rule the world.
Is she magnificent?
Oh beautifully. Her intelligence enables her to get the gauge of everyone very quickly and figure out how to get into their good graces, so that no-one suspects her true intentions and she can use other people as means to achieving her own goals. She befriends the local Ladies Circle, who know everyone in Whitby and enchants them with parties and expensive gifts. Only two people aren't taken in by Rowena's glittering charms. One is Prudence Joyster, who recognises her from an African country where Rowena and Nathaniel committed a bloody massacre while Prudence was living there with her husband, a colonel who was stationed locally. The other is Miss Alice Boston, a witch with a preternatural understanding of people and who senses great evil within Rowena, beneath her sweet facade.
Rowena expertly goes about silencing and killing everyone in her way, and such is her influence over those whom she befriends that she is able to make an obese wealthy local lady sign her entire fortune and estate over to her, before using her magic to make her die of a heart attack at the funeral of Prudence, whom Rowena also killed and made it look like an accident. She did this not only because of the resources having this woman's money would give her, but primarily because she (correctly) suspected that the Staff of Hilda was on her property and she wastes no time in scouring the entire mansion for it.
Aware that the Aufwaders, the local Fisher-Folk, with the help of Benjamin Laurenson, a young boy with the sight, are searching for the Moonkelp, she lets them look for it, recruiting one of their community as a henchman. When Ben and his Aufwader friend Nelda find the Moonkelp, Rowena sends her henchman to kill them and when he fails, she lets Ben summon the gods of the sea, then uses her magic to control him and make him wish for the location of the Staff to be revealed. Discovering that the Staff is hidden in a secret compartment in the garden shed of her mansion, Rowena recovers it and uses its awesome power to control time and space, sending the heroes to different, perilous points in Whitby's past. She ultimately only fails due to being tricked by the canny Alice Boston, who prods Rowena's ego by saying that she doesn't have full control of the Staff. Rowena challenges Miss Boston to name any place in history and she'll take them there. Alice, pretending to pick a number at random, selects 1830, the year the tower of the local abbey collapsed. Demonstrating her power, Rowena takes them there. Miss Boston then retreats into the Abbey, luring Rowena in there with her, then flees as the tower collapses and Rowena is crushed beneath the rubble. Ultimately Rowena only lost due to her own (justified) arrogance and lack of knowledge of the history of the town rather than any lack of competence on her part. But that's not the end of her story.
In the afterlife, Rowena learns that her husband and master Nathaniel Crozier is dead and that the evil Lord of the Frozen Wastes has made a pact with her coven to bring their High Priest back to life. Desiring revenge on her husband for his years of abuse and control, she makes a pact with this god to send her back to the mortal world to act as a servant on his behalf. The Lord of the Frozen Wastes agrees and resurrects Rowena as a Humanoid Abomination with the ability to turn into what is essentially a Shoggoth. The Lord of the Frozen Wastes ultimately resurrects Nathaniel to reward his coven for their services but Rowena journeys to the abbey where Nathaniel has returned and tauntingly tells him that she knew he didn't want the Staff of Hilda and sought it for her own gains. His new High Priestess accuses Rowena of wanting to overthrow Nathaniel and lead the coven in his stead but Rowena refutes this, saying that she just wanted out. Nathaniel, now inexplicably afraid of his wife, tries to use his powerful dark magic to repel her but with her newfound power, she effortlessly brushes his defensive spells aside and uses her new Super-Strength to push her way through the coven's attempts to protect him, before turning into her Shoggoth form and painfully absorbing and killing her evil husband as he screams in protest, before happily returning to the sea to live her immortal life as a servant of the gods.
Is she a bitch?
Oh Hell yes, literally in fact, given her ability to turn into a monstrous dog, an ability she shares with the rest of her coven and in which form she murders numerous friends of Miss Boston who are onto her. She has no compunction about trying to murder the two children who are in Miss Boston's care when they attempt to oppose her. She has a venomous tongue which her other coven members remember all too well and they sting at her very funny barbed quips when she returns from the dead.
Being a Bride of Crozier, she's done some truly wicked stuff in the past. This leads me into her darkest deed: Infanticide! In the village massacre she and Nathaniel committed in Africa, not even the children or babies were spared. Nevertheless, the mitigating factor here is that she was completely under Nathaniel's spell at the time. When a woman is under Nathaniel's powerful thrall, she's completely devoted and will kill or die for him. Even women and girls who are otherwise good, are willing to commit heinous acts on his behalf, including Ben's elder sister, Jennet. Rowena's primary motivation throughout the story, even in death, is being free of Nathaniel's control and influence for good and getting revenge on him for having controlled her so utterly throughout the years, while the rest of the Coven, never even try to break free of him. Whatever else Rowena may be, she's a truly strong and independent spirit, trying to get closure for an abusive marriage. Even her quest for the Staff of Hilda was focused towards this one goal, for which she would literally move Heaven and Earth, with world domination, if she even sought it at all, being a secondary consideration, and who doesn't love an ambitious villain anyway?
Additional comments
Rowena had a lasting effect on Ben, Jennet, Miss Boston and Nelda, who continue to mention and think of her over the course of the next two books of the trilogy. She even seems to have posthumously acquired a Worthy Opponent status in the mind of Miss Boston, who in the final book of the series taunts the Brides of Crozier for their incompetence and Dirty Coward techniques in trying to kill Ben, adding that when it came to being evil, "Rowena did it so much better than you", meaning that she acknowledges that Rowena went about her schemes with some panache, whereas she regards the other Brides with undisguised contempt and Nathaniel with nothing but pure loathing. Witty, stylish and competent, Rowena ends the series content in having achieved her ultimate goals, ridding the world of an even worse human being than herself and ready to enjoy her eternal existence in service to the gods.
Brilliant? Devious? Smooth Operator?
All of the above. She did ultimately fall for a trick but it was a good one and far from obvious. How many people outside of Whitby know its 1830 history? Probably not many.
Goal that she'll stop at nothing to achieve?
Hell to the yeah!
Charismatic and charming with a personality like a physical force?
This is what makes her enjoyable as a villain, even in her vilest moments. You get the impression that she's one of the author's favourite characters to write about, hence why he brought her back in the final book to get her revenge by being the one to kill Nathaniel permanently, leaving us cheering in the audience. It's also hilarious to see her throw shade at her pathetic former comrades, leaving them cringing at her sass.
Mitigating factors Is she too much of a bitch? You decide. Bearing in mind that her worst deeds were committed under Nathaniel's control and her whole raison de'tre is being rid of the bastard.
Verdict?
Edited by Etrebamort on Mar 30th 2024 at 7:02:50 PM
Lord Etrabamort
I will say yeah to Rosalyn and Magolor and... as for Yoda, maybe it's just me but dropping a moon sized weapon on a city planet goes beyond Fridge Horror. Blowing up a building to kill Palpatine would be one thing, but this is something else.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Mar 29th 2024 at 9:10:40 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
I shall also take a moment to update you all on Final Fantasy VII Rebirth:
Both Rufus and Sephiroth are well on their way to keeping, but for now we should hold off on them. As cool as Rufus is, he ends the game realising Sephiroth is manipulating him into waging war on Wutai. I can see Rufus breaking free of Sephy's machinations, especially if they keep his Face Turn from Advent Children, but for now he's a wait and see. Sephiroth himself is as cool as ever, and his desire to hurt Cloud does have more of a purpose to it this time, since Sephiroth is using the negative emotions from throughout time and space to merge the worlds into one another. It also seems clear he genuinely wants Cloud to join him in the Eternity he wishes to create. Still, a wait and see since we don't know his full plan just yet. Those of you that took issue with Original Sephiroth will likely be satisfied here. I also intend to relitigate original Sephiroth, but I am going to wait until Part 3 comes about since it's not quite clear if this game's Sephiroth is the same as the original timeline Sephiroth. yeah this game's a bit mind bending at points.
Actually, there is one character that might count... but Yokorobe is handling them. I look forward to the EP!
Well put
Will try to get that EP out in good condition when I can
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Mar 29th 2024 at 10:13:55 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
I am really not a fan of how multiverses are being used in every damn franchise now, and how it’s kinda making everything feel inconsequential.
Magolor and Rosalyn.
Edited by MasterN on Mar 29th 2024 at 12:33:56 PM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Yeah i remember seeing this comic and i rememeber that Yoda crashing the Death Star was weirdly not shown in any negative light whatsoever. Just that Yoda did a badass Heroic Sacrifice and was mourned.
The whole thing's frankly hilarious but yeah imo it sounds like this relys on poor writing for it to be bad enough,![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]")
to Yoda.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE