During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
ZCE from Immortal:
- Magnificent Bastard: Horus.
Yes, the falcon-headed Egyptian god of the Heavens himself, Horus of Hierakonpolis. He's definitely a smooth operator (that badass voice!) who manages to cheat his way out of final judgment by his fellow gods. But the problem is that his whole plot hinges on using his mind control powers to possess a hapless fool to rape a woman able to carry his offspring. He does explicitly say that he operates on Blue-and-Orange Morality and doesn't see it as rape, but it's still treated as an asshole thing for him to do (she later falls in love with the man he possessed, but specifically not Horus himself, calling him "the rapist").
Edited by Morgenthaler on Aug 8th 2018 at 12:04:21 PM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Goku Black
- Magnificent Bitch: Mixed with Manipulative Bitch. Both foes and allies are a victim of this. The biggest example of the latter was probably manipulating her own brother into becoming the Juggernaut just to break his heart and show him how she felt after losing her soul.
Lighty your familiar with this character going by your Cm ep of Belasco. Keep and ep or cut
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
What is the work?
The work is Yu-Gi-Oh! GX, the first spin-off series in the Yu-Gi-Oh franchise. GX focuses on Duel Academy, an island boarding school where students learn professional-level Duel Monsters.
Who is the character?
The character is Sartorius (Japanese name Takuma Saiou), the primary antagonist of the second season.
What does he do?
Sartorius and his sister Sarina were born with the power to forsee the future. As a child, their were shunned and ostracized for their abilities and ran away from home. Sartorius became friends with a young Aster Phoenix, and foresaw that Aster would play a critical role in his fate, which Sartorius feared was a dark one. Sartorius made a living as a fortune teller and came into contact with a professional duelist named Kyle Jables, who wanted him to examine a peculiar card he had. Unknown to either of the two at the time, the card was possessed by a malevolent cosmic energy called the Light of Destruction, which had already begun to exert its influence on Jables. Sensing Sartorius' abilities, the Light chose him as its primary host, causing Sartorius to develop an evil alter-ego. Sartorius eventually became Aster's manager, using his foretunetelling to aid him in his duels, and founded the Society of Light, a Cult dedicated to worship of the Light of Destruction.
When his tarot readings tell him that someone at Duel Academy will influence his fate, Sartorius sends Aster to duel Jaden Yuki and lose on purpose to gauge Jaden's strength. Believing he has found the person he seeks, Sartorius has Aster seek a rematch, and secretly infuses his deck with the Light, intending for Jaden to come under his control upon losing. However, Jaden's ability to defy destiny allows him to resist this, instead rendering him unable to see his deck, seeing only blank cards. Jaden eventually leaves Duel Academy and recovers from this affliction by gaining his Neo-Spacian cards, infused with energies counterpart to the Light of Destruction.
Sartorius travels to Duel Academy and enrolls on the pretense of scouting professional duelists, but is seeking someone he foresees will be of use to his plans. He zeroes in on Jaden's rival Chazz Princeton, and duels him. During the duel Sartorius delivers a Hannibal Lecture on what his cards tell him about Chazz, and what he must do to move beyond his limitations and surpass Jaden — lose the duel, and join Sartorius and the Society of Light. Sartorius prevails and brainwashes Chazz, turning him into an obedient sycophant who adopts a white Academy uniform as his attire. Chazz proceeds to duel and defeat the entire Obelisk Blue dormotory and conscript them into the Society of Light. Sartorius takes over the dorm and has it repainted and redecorated white, creating the "Obelisk White" dorm.
Sartorius repeatedly sends Society of Light duelists against Jaden to try and bring him under his influence, but Jaden defeats every one. Sensing that another Academy duelist could be of use, Sartorius duels Tyranno Hassleberry and defeats him, but Tyranno resists the influence of the Light, confirming he too has the power to defy destiny. Another Academy duelists, Bastion Misawa, is upset his considerable dueling skills have not resulted in any recognition, and that the Society of Light apparently had no interest in recruiting him. He duels Chazz to prove his worth, and during the duel Sartorius recognizes Bastion's ability and offers him membership in the Society — Bastion intentionally throws the game and joins the Society.
Duel Academy hosts the Genex Tournament and Sartorius duels Prince Ojin, a noble from a nation that has developed a new orbital satellite laser cannon. Sartorius defeats Ojin and Ojin is brainwashed, and gives Sartorius the two control keys to the satellite. Sartorius intends to use the laser cannon to destroy humanity and reset the world to its perfect, blank state (in the English dub, he intends to use it to brainwash humanity). That night the good side of Sartorius takes the control keys and grants them to Jaden and Aster for protection; Aster had previously been enlightened to Sartorius' villainy by his sister Sarina and broken from him. Sartorius continues to send duelists against Jaden but they fail, and Jaden begins to free his friends from the Light's influence.
Eventually Aster confronts Sartorius and duels him, but is defeated. Sartorius takes his control key and holds him hostage, demanding Jaden hand over his key or Aster dies. Jaden complies and challenges Sartorius after, but Sartorius refuses — he has the control keys, he has no reason to duel now. He attempts to take the keys but is blocked by Jaden's Elemental Hero Neos, the leader of the Neo-Spacians. Sartorius accepts Jaden's challenge and the duel begins. During the duel Neos is destroyed and Sartorius seizes the keys and gives them to Ojin, ordering him to activate the satellite while he continues the duel, preventing Jaden from leaving to keep him occupied.
Through the efforts of the Neo-Spacians and Tyranno (don't ask, it's amazingly stupid to explain), the satellite is destroyed and Jaden defeats Sartorius, purifying him of the Light of Destruction.
Is he a bastard?
Sartorius builds a cult dedicated to worshipping the Society of Light with him as its leader, and brainwashes dozens, perhaps hundreds of people into servitude. Anyone that could potentially oppose his plans he makes a target of to force them to join the Society of Light. He takes over the top dorm of Duel Academy and transforms it into his base of operations, with the students of the dorm as loyal Society members who would duel and lose for him at a word, and do so throughout the season. His ultimate goal, depending on if you go by the original Japanese or the English dub, is either to destroy the world in the name of purifying light, or to brainwash humanity into obedience to him.
As Aster's manager and childhood friend, the two were very close, but as a villain Sartorius lied to Aster and manipulated him for his own purposes. When he sees it is Jaden, not Aster, that Sartorius should concern himself with, he discards Aster as a client and focuses the Society of Light's efforts on Jaden. He holds Aster hostage to make Jaden give his key to the control key to the satellite, threatening to kill him if Jaden doesn't comply.
Is he magnificent?
Sartorius is a master of the Hannibal Lecture to a degree that would make the Trope Namer proud. He is soft-spoken, affable, calm, and chilling in how he deconstructs anyone he duels. Through psychology and tarot readings, he zeroes in on an enemy's desires and weaknesses and exploits them, convincing them that by joining the Society of Light, he can help them. Throughout the series Sartorius uses his foretunetelling to peek into the future and see how things are progressing and gain insight on what to do next, and adjusts his plans accordingly. As new targets of interest reveal themselves he takes action against them, attempting to make them join the Society of Light so they will not oppose him.
These two elements of Sartorius are reflected in his deck theme, Arcana Force, based on tarot cards. When Sartorius plays his cards they appear in the air and rotate; he has the opponent call for them to stop, and then his cards have one of two effects depending on if they stopped rightside up or upside down. Through this style of dueling, Sartorius grants his opponents the illusion that they are in control of the duel when he has already predicted how things will play out, and he points this out to his opponents and applies it to his greater manipulation tactic of telling them he has seen their destiny and only he has the power to change it. Sartorius' deck style lets him treat duels as tarot readings and he does so, explaining to opponents how his cards grant him insight on them, and he often uses his opponents' corresponding Arcana Force cards to deliver a Karmic Death, utilizing those specific cards for his win. For instance against Chazz, Sartorius tells him that "Arcana Force XII - The Hangman" represents him, and shuffles the card into his deck after revealing it. Sartorius later has Chazz pick a random card from his hand to summon, and Chazz picks the Hangman, which Sartorius summons and uses to win. As he does Sartorius reiterates that the Hangman symbolizes Chazz and its repeated appearances in the duel are proof he cannot hide from his destiny. The card represents stagnation and an inability to progress without making a sacrifice - Sartorius sees there is a rival Chazz can't defeat, but if he joins the Society of Light, Sartorius can help him change his fate and gain the power to surpass Jaden. The strain of it all breaks Chazz and he loses the duel and joins Sartorius.
Sartorius also manages to be one of the few villains in the entire Yugioh franchise to avoid the Villain Ball in the final confrontation — throughout the season he has no problem personally getting his hands dirty, but avoids dueling Jaden because he recognizes Jaden can change destiny and defy his predictions, and believes that if he were to face Jaden himself, he would lose. He makes Jaden give up his control key to the satellite by holding Aster as a hostage, then laughs at Jaden's challenge after because he's already gotten what he wanted, he has no need to duel him now. He only duels Jaden because he has to when Elemental Hero Neos intervenes, and onces Neos is gone Sartorius has Ojin activate the satellite in his place while he continues the duel to keep Jaden occupied.
Conclusion
Sartorius builds a cult dedicated to worship of him and the Light of Destruction, attempts to purify the world with cleansing light, and along the way brainwashes people who could stand in his way and convinces them to join him.
Edited by DrakeClawfang on Jan 9th 2024 at 11:47:14 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Sartorius
V
(Jacob) Sartorious
Found this on Redwall
- Magnificent Bastard: Cluny the Scourge from Redwall and Rasconza from The Pearls of Lutra.
And now Yubel.
What is the work?
The work is Yu-Gi-Oh! GX, the first spin-off series in the Yu-Gi-Oh franchise. GX focuses on Duel Academy, an island boarding school where students learn professional-level Duel Monsters.
Who is the character?
The character is Yubel, the primary antagonist of the third season. Yubel is of Ambiguous Gender in the Japanese anime, but has a mostly feminine appearance and is addressed as a female in the dub. For this EP, she'll be referred to with female pronounces.
What does she do?
In the distant past, a boy in an ancient kingdom was seen to have the potential to wield the power of the Darkness of Justice and use it to combat the malevolent Light of Destruction. Yubel, who was in love with the boy, agreed to become his guardian and protect him until the day he can wield the Darkness properly. Yubel was transformed into a Duel Spirit that was bonded to the boy, and they vowed to always be together. In the modern era the boy was reincarnated as Jaden Yuki, and Yubel found her way to him as a Duel Monster card, but Jaden had no idea of the card's meaning to him or of his past life. Yubel's spirit lashed out at anyone she perceived as hurting or threatening Jaden, causing people to fear dueling him. Jaden had won a contest from Kaiba Corp to have cards he designed sent to space on a capsule, to be infused with the power of the cosmos. Jaden asked they send Yubel too, hoping the cosmic energy would help. While Jaden's other cards were infused with the cosmic energy of Neo-Space and became the Neo-Spacian cards, Yubel's capsule was stuck by energy from the Light of Destruction, corrupting her and driving her mad. Her capsule crashed back on earth with only her arm remaining, and she vowed to reunite with Jaden.
The arm was found by Professor Viper and Yubel made a deal with him to revive his dead son if Viper aided her in regenerating her body. Viper agreed and created the Bio-Bands, which he distributed to dueling schools to monitor data on duelists as they dueled, but secretly they also absorbed duel energy to fuel Yubel's regeneration. Viper eventually brought the Bio-Bands to Duel Academy where Jaden was a student. A duelist named Adrian Gecko discovers the Bio-Bands' true purpose, but as he infiltrates Viper's hideout and prepared to shut down the reactor, Yubel reached out to him. Adrian was a Spare to the Throne of his prestigeous adopted family, and Yubel offered him power if Adrian aided her — Adrian accepts and leaves the reactor online.
Jaden eventually dueled and defeated Viper. Yubel manifests an energy body around her arm and warps Viper's memories to believe his son never died, and uses an illusion of him to trick him into walking off the dueling platform to his death. While Yubel didn't have enough power to reform her body yet, she uses the power she does have to transport Duel Academy to an alternate dimension of duel spirits. Sensing darkness in his heart from family troubles, Yubel possessed the student Marcel to use as a host and grafted her arm to him. She then used the Bio-Bands to send the students of the Academy into a dueling frenzy, draining all the energy she could from them and turning them into "duel zombies" who seek out other duelists to force into duels for their energy. Yubel also takes the Sacred Beast cards, powerful cards sealed under Duel Academy, to use for her own purposes.
Jaden's friend Jesse Andersen receives the "Rainbow Dragon" card from their home dimension that can send them home. Seeing this, Yubel orders Jaden to duel her or she'll use the Bio-Bands to kill the Academy students. Jaden duels Yubel and is joined by Jesse, who summons Rainbow Dragon against the Sacred Beasts. During the duel Yubel finally gains enough energy to regenerate herself and does so, discarding Marcel and revealing her true form. Jesse forces a double KO between him and Yubel and uses Rainbow Dragon to teleport Duel Academy back home, while he and Yubel remain behind.
Yubel remains off-screen for a time as Jaden and his friends try to rescue Jesse and travel to another Duel Spirit dimension to search for him. Jaden's friends are taken prisoner by the officers of the Dark World and offered as sacrifices to create "Super Polymerization", the ultimate Fusion card. These trials cause Jaden to turn evil and become a tyrant called The Supreme King, who forms an army to complete Super Polymerization and conquer the twelve duel spirit dimensions. Jaden is eventually freed from the Supreme King's influence. It is later explained that Yubel orchestrated Jaden's possession by the Supreme King, as this was his previous life's personality that had been warped, and Yubel needed the Super Polymerization card for her plans.
Yubel resurfaces using Jesse as a new host, and she challenges Jaden but is stopped by Zane Truesdale, who suffers from a fatal heart condition and wants Jesse to give him his last duel. Yubel defeats Zane and retreats, the encounter having used much of her strength. At her hideout she is confronted by Adrian who is making his own play for power and intends to become king of this dimension. He duels Yubel but is defeated, and Jaden then arrives and challenges her. Jaden uses Super Polymerization to purify the corrupted "Rainbow Dark Dragon" and free Jesse's soul from within it, but Yubel emerges from Jesse and uses a Trap to force a Double KO and seize Super Polymerization for herself. The true final duel against Yubel begins.
During the duel Jaden recovers his memories of his past life and remembers who Yubel truly is, and realizes what he has done to her unwittingly. He allows Yubel to take Super Polymerization and she activates it, intending to use it to fuse the twelve Duel Spirit dimensions into one dimension that she will rule over. Jaden responds with a card to let him choose the targets of her card, and uses Super Polymerization to fuse Yubel and himself together in order to purify her and ensure they will never be apart again.
The protagonists save for Jaden are transported back to the normal dimension. A time later Jaden re-appears, now having fused with Yubel, who displays a more heroic personality and acts as his Spirit Adviser.
Is she a bastard?
Yubel uses the Bio-Bands to drain energy from the entire student body and faculty of Duel Academy in order to fuel her rebirth, and later threatens to use the Bands to kill them all if Jaden does not duel her. She repeatedly invokes You Have Out Lived Your Usefulness on her allies, tricking Viper into killing himself when he fails to defeat Jaden, discarding Marcel when she no longer needs a host body, and killing Adrian when he rebels against her. She orchestrates Jaden's Break the Cutie Face–Heel Turn both to get her hands on Super Polymerization and to awaken his true self as the Supreme King and tries to use Super Polymerization to merge the twelve dimensions into one for her to rule over with Jaden at her side.
Critical to Yubel's motivations is that, deep down, everything she does is born of her love for Jaden, but it's a seriously twisted kind of love. Due to her madness and corruption by the Light of Destruction, Yubel thinks that Jaden sending her away to be struck by the Light is his way of expressing his love for her, and she wants to show him her love the same way — through pain, suffering, and isolation. Everything Yubel does to Jaden is her way of showing she loves him and that she wants to prove to him how deep her love for him goes. Yubel is intensely possessive of Jaden, immediately growing hateful and suspicious of anyone close to him even as a platonic friend, and constantly espousing her fear and rage over Jaden "replacing" her with someone else.
Is she magnificent?
Yubel doesn't even seem to have a set plan when she first begins her scheme to revive and reunite with Jaden; if it's Xanatos Speed Chess or bad writing is for you to decidenote . She uses Viper as her pawn and then takes over herself when he fails her, teleports the Academy to another dimension to isolate them and keep absorbing power from the students, claims the Sacred Beasts to use for an extremely powerful deck, and orchestrates Jaden's Face–Heel Turn (though it is not explained how she planned that last one).
Yubel constantly makes deals with others to make them into allies, and exploits the darkness in others to possess them and/or grow stronger. She agrees to revive Pierce for Viper to earn his allegiance, and promises Adrian power to earn his. She possesses Marcel due to the darkness in his heart over his parents' troubled marriage, and when she fails to sense darkness in Adrian's heart for her to feed on, she instead finds it in the spirit of Echo in Adrian's Exodia card, who he sacrificed to get the card. She promises the survivors of Duel Academy in the other dimension access to food if they grant her access to the power station where the entrance to the vault with the Sacred Beasts is; she agrees to a duel to decide access, but then just goes and gets the cards anyway while they're distracted, counting on her duelists to keep them occupied.
In her duels Yubel is an extremely skilled strategist. She utilizes the Sacred Beasts excellently and is able to match champion duelists like Jesse and Zane, and when Jesse forces a Double KO out of her, she adopts his deck as her own and twists it to darkness for greater power. In her final duel with Jaden, Yubel uses a deck centering on her own card and powers it up to stronger forms as Jaden finds ways to destroy it while protecting it whenever he tries to find loopholes in its own innate defensive effects. She also begins the duel with a Continuous Spell card to remove five cards in her deck from the game, but one of them will be added to her hand for every second Spell card Jaden uses — Super Polymerization is one of the five, effectively forcing a countdown until Jaden must give her Super Polymerization.
Conclusion
Yubel is a Love Hungry Yandere Stalker with a Crush taken to the extreme of interdimensional conquest, and she manipulates, possesses, and kills anyone she has to for her to rule over the Duel Spirit dimensions with Jaden.
Edited by DrakeClawfang on Feb 18th 2024 at 5:20:51 AM
Isn't Sartorious literally insane? Plus, isn't he in the same boat as Dartz of being too much of a Villain Sue?
Alright, next up on my list of Femme Fatale candidates:
What is the work?
Body Heat, a seminal neo-noir film made in 1982. Something of an update of classic Film Noir films, except Hotter and Sexier, it is in large part responsible for the subsequent wave of erotic thrillers in the 1980s and 1990s.
Who is Matty Tyler? What has she done?
Matty Tyler Walker is a beguiling woman married to a very wealthy Florida businessman, played by Kathleen Turner (Jessica Rabbit herself!). During an intense Heat Wave in the area, which sets the mood for the rest of the film, she meets the protagonist Ned Racine (William Hurt), a sleazy lawyer of the disreputable Ambulance Chaser sort. She seduces him over the course of a few supposedly chance encounters, using Reverse Psychology on him to make him think that he's pursuing an unattainable woman. After they engage in a torrid affair for several weeks, Matty's husband Edmund Walker (Richard Crenna) returns from his business trip, forcing them to keep a lid on things. Ned however is not so careful, accidentally making a pass at Matty's similar-looking friend Mary Ann Simpson on one occasion and making out with Matty when her husband's niece, who was staying over for the weekend, walks in on them. Both these events become plot-relevant later.
After a run-in with Matty's husband in a restaurant, and other details hesitantly revealed by a visibly scared Matty, Ned starts to realize that the guy is in to some very crooked and shady business. Matty is also worried that her husband will leave her penniless if their affair were ever exposed (they had a prenup agreement), and starts to voice her secret desire that her husband suffered some sort of accident. Ned resolves to kill her husband, but tells her not to do anything rash like change his will right before his death so they don't draw suspicion on themselves. After killing Edmund, and burning his body on some property he owned to make it look like he died in an arson, Ned gets a call from a lawyer who tells him that a new will was drafted by Ned for the Walkers and Mary Ann Simpson present as the witness. Because of various legal improprieties in the will and Ned's history of incompetence with a similar case a few years before, the will is declared null and void by a judge, and under Florida state law all of Edmund Walker's assets are turned over to his spouse, cutting out his blood relatives. Matty later admits that this was intentional on her part when Ned voices his anger, and begs him to wait until she can get enough money for them to run away together. Meanwhile, Mary Ann Simpson has gone missing.
By this point, Ned himself has become a suspect in the death of Edmund Walker after he openly starts sleeping with the widow, but when they bring Edmund's niece in, he calls their bluff, and the girl doesn't recognize him. However, a lowtime criminal who provided Ned with the bomb to destroy Edmund's body informs him that a woman matching Matty's description asked him for a similar explosive. Now fearing for his life after Matty asks him to come over, Ned forces her to walk into her own trap, getting blown up after walking into a boathouse to retrieve a piece of evidence (Edmund's steel glasses frame) that she kept to herself as a sick trophy. The corpse is later positively identified as Matty Tyler Walker through dental records. Ned is arrested for two homicides, although he manages to find proof that the woman he knew as "Matty" is the real Mary Ann Simpson, who had assumed the identity of Matty Tyler (the woman he knew as Mary Ann) to fake her own death, he isn't believed. Mary Ann is last seen on a tropical beach, enjoying her victory as Ned will likely get the death penalty.
How do her actions and personality show she is a Magnificent Bitch?
She's a very manipulative and conniving person who hatched a scheme that took years of preparation, all in order to run off with a fortune, fake her own death, and murder both her husband and her "friend" Matty Tyler and have Ned take the fall for it. She's very good at playing with other people's emotions and projecting a charming image of herself to the outside world, especially towards Ned, whether it's feigning weakness, being scared, or being head over heels in love with him, making him feel like he's in control the entire time while she's actually playing him for a complete fool. Even their first encounter wasn't incidental—she specifically chose to seduce Ned because of his reputation as an inept lawyer and his sleaziness. And for bonus points, at the end Ned gets a look at Mary Ann's high school yearbook. Guess what her teenage nickname was? "The Vamp". Her life's ambition? "To be rich and live in an exotic land". Magnificent? Yes? Bitch? Oh, hell yes.
Mitigating Factors?
Not really. While there are a few occasions where her scheme could have fallen apart, she sails right through it and succeeds at everything she set out to do.
Verdict?
Magnificent Bitch extraordinaire. She's bad, and most definitely written that way.
Edited by Morgenthaler on Aug 8th 2018 at 10:11:21 AM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
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He has an evil alter-ego but that alter-ego is sane, if that makes sense. I never much thought of him as a villain sue, though. He suffers numerous setbacks as he fails to bring duelists under his control and loses the satellite keys he needs.
I'll gives yeas to the above, especially Matty. Great movie. who else's on your list, Morgen?
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
to all of the above.
Speaking of which. I wonder why some of the mods didn't add the recent batch yet to the respective pages? But eh, I'll wait.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Aug 9th 2018 at 12:20:47 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Yubel
Sartorius
Matty Tyler Walker
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Anarky. Sorry, but I have a personal politic of "too evil".
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We didnt have a EP for that series ? I think that it was one of them. I could be wrong tho.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 8th 2018 at 12:32:58 PM
Watch me destroying my country
V
Yubel and Walker.
Found this on Redwall
- Magnificent Bastard: Cluny the Scourge from Redwall and Rasconza from The Pearls of Lutra.
Rasconza is a maybe. He's smart, crafty and not too evil, but the problem is the main villain of the book is dumb as a brick who creates most of his own problems. Cluny is a hell no. He's legitimately insane, gradually loses his grip on reality through the novel and is wantonly sadistic and cruel. Mokkan has his nightmares and a minor sanity slippage but he never goes anywhere close to Cluny.
Goku Black
to all of the above.
@ Lighty: I might have one more Femme Fatale to EP, but it's definitely not from a good movie, let alone a classic like Body Heat. Hint: she's played by Kari Wuhrer. As much of a B-Movie sex symbol as she was back in the day, her acting chops... are questionable.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Well. I was thinking on this guy and thus…another Anti-EP (take it as a regular EP, given that we really haven't discussed him until now).
One that particularly pains me due to this being one of my favorite antagonists of the whole franchise.
Setting?
Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse is a sort-of direct sequel of Shin Megami Tensei IV.
Starting in middle of the Neutral Route of SMT IV. A teenager dies and is given the option of resurrect for the deity Dagda, that wants use him as his Godslayer to Kill All Gods, including himself. The very definition of For Want Of A Nail start and our character is that nail.
Alongside this guy.
Who is Krishna?
The Avatar of Vishnu and The Leader of the Divine Powers (Polytheistic Alliance in the original Japanese), Krishna is freed alongside his Dragon Miroku (Buddha) for his other Dragon, Odin.
At the beginning of the game, he is sealed within an ark in Kanda-no-yashiro in Tokyo, but Odin manipulates The Protagonist Nanashi and his adoptive sister Asahi (and forced by Dagda, if Nanashi attempts to negate Odin's manipulations) into freeing him. He immediately sets out to convince Flynn to join them as his "Kalki" (insert Ho Yay jokes), his own version of the Godslayer. His ultimate goal is to use the goddess Inanna to power the Cosmic Egg and force a rebirth of the universe, with himself or one of his compatriots supplanting YHVH as the Creator and permanently claiming the new universe for Polytheism. And he…really does be close to his goal. He declares war against everyone, the Archangel Merkabah, Lucifer himself (who don’t count here, Smug Snake), the humans and the Fairies (who support a human governed world).
He search and captures Flynn by threatening to kill Asahi, then his minions cause a lot of destruction in Tokyo, forcing the angels and demons to work together (is less interesting than what it sounds, due to being Out of Focus and both sides being reduced to Smug Super). Miroku causes metaphysical messes, making regular demon summoning devices unable to summon demons and making humans easy preys (stopped for Nanashi, but not before Krishna taking advantage).
Then, his literal The Dragon Shesha eats a lot of humans and causes more havoc in Tokyo. Finally, after having taken the Temple of the Ring of Gaia as his base, Krishna is fought for Nanashi and friends to save Flynn. Krishna dies in the fight and then Nanashi and Flynn manage to take care of Merkabah and Lucifer, finally leaving Tokyo in peace while making relations with the kingdom of Mikado in a classic Earn Your Happy Ending. …except that in the celebrations. Flynn becomes a humanoid snake and devours the souls of everyone present. That was not Flynn, it was Shesha who took his form in order to get the faith of the humans and devour them in orders of Krishna. Shesha eats Asahi and then goes to become the new Cosmic Egg, which becomes a new dungeon.
Nanashi deals with Krishna’ allies and then he does make his final choice if following Dagda or his friends. Regardless of it, Nanashi fights Krishna, who fuses with Flynn to become more powerful.
Krishna is defeated and then killed for Flynn (Bonds route) or Nanashi (Massacre route) while having a short but intense Villainous Breakdown.
Smart?
Yeah. Outwitted everyone, being only defeated due to Nanashi having the help of a god and being that strong. The only real reason of his loss is Shesha grabbing the Idiot Ball and not eating Nanashi when he can, but that is on Shesha, not him. Seriously. He managed to use Nanashi to get rid of his competence. Nice plan there.
Bastard? Charm?
He does have a lot of people killed, he steals the souls of many persons. He does think in humans as assets that can be shared with other gods with no care of them as individuals.
However, he is always so damn polite and calm and he does have genuine good intentions for both humans (he thinks that they would be better than their current Forever War) and his fellow gods. He is always asking people to willingly accept his plan and explaining his arguments and how death is not important given that he is going to reincarnate them in a better world. Krishna is easily considered the best part of the game even for its haters (SMT IVA is a Broken Base, really broken).
However, his Villainous Breakdown is important to discuss here. The lines themselves aren’t strong enough to cut
But his face right before his death is just...pathetic. Just look at it.
◊ This face appears in a single but memorable frame of just one second before Krishna is sliced and dies.
You could argue that is normal being so-broken after having your most important plan and dream get destroyed for mere humans, others could just say that is Krishna failing to understand the human spirit and paying for his arrogance. I lean towards the first option, but dunno.
Also. He really shines in this games, given that both Merkabah and Lucifer were essencially stripped of any charm that they could have. Jokes say that their charisma was drained for Krishna to explain it. Only Steven, the definition of Affably Evil can be more charming than Krishna.
Opinion?
I was going to say No. But I Abstain, he does easily meets all the criteria but his face right before his death is pretty pathetic.
Opinions?
Well. Just take this as a regular EP.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 8th 2018 at 1:50:49 PM
Watch me destroying my country
Yes to everyone except Krishna but I have to ask that we wait until someone actually becomes an issue in terms of being re-added or constantly asked about here can we give the anti-EPs a rest. If we just do them because we personally see them as a close call case we end up with lengthy posts on something we all agree on and it's just taking up space.
Nevertheless, please keep it to characters you're at least confident on.
Mmm... really depends on the case, Hans looked shocked to be falling out a window but never pleaded for his life or anything. I haven't played the game but Kaz having done so and feeling it's a DQ enough to mention in his EP makes me un-inclined to see him keeping. Just going by Kaz's analysis of the scene and to be frank, don't tell someone their argument is "weak"—it shuts down debate and comes across as disrespectful.
Edited by 43110 on Aug 8th 2018 at 3:16:44 PM
Actually, I disagree with the notion that having a "pathetic" face during a death scene is enough to take the mangifence out of a character.
I haven't seen the game or the death scene but I find that to be a weak argument. Now if they were kicking and screaming while dying, than yes but....realistically, who wouldn't be at least a bit terrified during their last moments?
Edited by username2527 on Aug 8th 2018 at 12:12:46 PM
To The GX duo, Matty, and Krishna
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Mmmm... At best I just abstain on Krishna.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Yubel, Matty, and Krishna.
Got a couple of proposals here, both from the same work - the Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. One of them I'm pretty sure on, the other I'm more ambivalent about.
What's the Work?
The Codex Alera is a Heroic Fantasy by Jim Butcher of Dresden Files fame. It's set in a Fantasy Counterpart Culture of Rome (eventually revealed to have been founded by a lost Roman legion that got sucked into another world) where, thanks to their civilization's collective bond with the elemental beings called furies, absolutely everyone has some degree of Elemental Powers. And that's a very good thing, because the Realm of Alera is under constant threat from inhuman enemies, be it the Marat (wood-elf esque humanoid barbarians) to the east, the yeti-like Icemen to the north, or the Canim (Wolf Men with a highly militarized society and potent Blood Magic) from across the western seas. And there may be enemies yet more terrible than that abroad in the world of Carna. A generation before the events of the novels, Princeps Gaius Septimus, heir to the First Lord's throne, died in a battle against the Marat under mysterious circumstances, with many believing that he was assassinated by his own people rather than the enemy. Both our candidates were affected by his death and used it as a jumping-off point for their schemes, albeit in very different ways.
Who is Gaius Sextus? What does he do?
Gaius Sextus is First Lord of Alera; in theory a constitutional monarch beholden to the Senate, in practice a pretty absolute ruler. He's also the father of the dead Princeps. Though very old by the time the series takes place, he's still extremely powerful and canny. Technically the Big Good for most of the series, Sextus is nonetheless a very morally dubious character; he parallels Dumbledore in a lot of ways (down to a shared habit of having a conversation with the protagonist near the end of most books where he goes over the preceding events and gives a summation and some last-minute exposition) but Alera being what it is, he's much more blatant about his moral ambiguity.
Among his duties as First Lord, Sextus is head of the cursors - officially the Crown's messengers, unofficially its spies and covert agents, and through this position he keeps abreast of pretty much everything that goes on in Alera. Though only indirectly involved with the events of the first book, he arrives in person at the end and meets The Hero, Tavi - and though Tavi doesn't know it himself, Sextus immediately pegs him as Septimus's hidden son and therefore Sextus's own grandson. Granting Tavi's request that he be allowed to study at the Academy at the capital, Sextus takes the boy under his wing and starts covertly teaching him leadership - see, Tavi, for reasons that are eventually explained, is an Un-Sorcerer and therefore ineligible to succeed Sextus even if his heritage was known, so Sextus won't claim him openly, but he wants to make sure he's ready if he should ever have the chance. Sextus also keeps an eye on the spy rings of his political enemies, particularly the Aquitaines whose spymaster once worked for him, and demonstrates an ability to anticipate their assignments that leaves even said spymaster shaken.
Sextus truly shows his chops, however, when High Lord Kalarus launches a civil war, which turns out to be in response to Sextus provoking him so he'd act before he was ready and do something stupid. Though he initially lets Kalarus think he's got the edge, in fact Sextus remains in complete control of the situation, holding the loyalist high lords together by sheer force of will and using his cursors to rescue important hostages and sabotage Kalarus's war effort. Around the time, he also installs Tavi (incognito) as an officer in a newly formed legion to get him some actual combat experience and start building his reputation, which he does with aplomb. When Kalarus, in a final desperate gambit, stirs up one of the great furies and prepares to unleash its power in a suicidal attack that would wipe out rebel and loyalist forces both, Sextus personally figures out how to short-circuit it - the great fury can't be contained by any means, so Sextus sets it off early, sparing the loyal Alerans but blasting Kalarus, his legions, and his capital city off the face of Carna. It's later revealed that Kalarus was one of the assassins who killed Septimus, a fact of which Sextus was well aware at the time.
No sooner had Kalarus been defeated than Alera was invaded by its greatest threat - the Vord. Sextus personally took command of the legions and faced the Vord in battle, and though unable to defeat them he was able to delay them and bleed their numbers - and insure that among their victims was High Lord Rhodes, Kalarus's partner in assassination. In a final desperate gamble, he lured the Vord into Alera Imperia itself and then triggered a volcano beneath it - killing himself and an estimated ninety percent of the enemy, buying Alera time to regroup without which it would surely have been destroyed. However, Sextus's hand would extend even beyond the grave, as he gave written instructions to his loyal cursor Ehren regarding how to assassinate High Lord Aquitaine and prepare the way for Tavi, aka Gaius Octavian, to take the throne. Even in death, the First Lord of Alera served - and saved - his people.
Is he charming? Charismatic? A planner?
Sextus isn't really "charming" - as he himself admits, the people fear and respect him, but they don't love him - but he's got a powerful personality and can command instant respect and make his enemies flee in terror with a single, quiet word. And though his position as First Lord leaves him in a mostly reactive place, he's got plans for every contingency, only looses his cool once when in a drug-induced breakdown (he'd been OD'ing on a stimulant to try and keep himself functional with minimal sleep, which he subsequently realized was a bad idea at his age) and is always several steps ahead of everyone else, something his most competent enemies acknowledge.
Is he a bastard? Too much of one?
On the one hand, no one would ever question Sextus's utter commitment to the Realm of Alera and his duties to his people. On the other, he's very, very willing to lie, manipulate, and outright murder any number of people if he thinks the greater good of Alera demands it. This is most strongly shown in his defeat of Kalarus, when he more-or-less nuked an entire province because he feared the alternative would be worse, an act that horrified even Amara, a cursor who hero-worshipped him (and, in a testament to his charisma, he was still able to convince her to do a job for him after she witnessed that). A number of people, including sympathetic characters, hate Sextus for his willingness to play with and throw away lives for The Cause. In the end, however, that includes his own life as well. Ultimately, Sextus sits very firmly in a dark grey shade of morality - too much blood on his hands to ever be called good, but at the same time maintaining a self-sacrificing level of loyalty to his country and his people that keeps him out of truly villainous territory.
Conclusion?
Gaius Sextus is, to paraphrase one of the other Aleran High Lords, one fearsome old cat. I feel comfortable giving him a.
And for my next proposal, Sextus's most dangerous political adversary.
Who is Aquitainus Attis? What does he do?
Years ago, a young Aquitainus Attis was one of Princeps Septimus's closest friends. After Septimus was assassinated, however, Attis lost faith in the Aleran system and Gaius Sextus's leadership, and decided the Realm needed new management - namely, his. He proceeded to begin quietly building a power base, including marrying an ambitious and cunning young woman named Invidia so he could make use of her skills which complemented his own (the marriage itself was loveless and Invidia was, in fact, one of the masterminds behind the conspiracy that killed Septimus - it's implied, though not outright stated, that Attis knew this and married her in part to keep an eye on her). At some point along the way, Attis succeeded to his family's title and became High Lord Aquitaine. To disguise his ambitions, he took to acting the part of a hedonistic playboy.
Attis is introduced in the first book, having just successfully wooed the legendary cursor agent Fidelias away from Sextus's service - his Establishing Character Moment involves skillfully dismantling a Treacherous Advisor's attempts to manipulate him and pointing out the man's logical fallacies while drunk (remember, he was using Obfuscating Stupidity) and in so doing earning Fidelias's approval. Though his plan in the first book (to arrange to a Marat invasion which would make Sextus look weak, but that Attis could defeat) failed, he succeeded in avoiding being tied to it, while retaining an ace up his sleeve - that he was having an affair with Sextus's current wife, Caria, giving him a spy in the First Lord's chambers. On Attis's instructions, Caria began to poison her husband with a subtle drug that didn't kill him, but that did exacerbate the effects of his advanced age in order to weaken him.
After the war with Kalarus broke out, Attis took personal command of Aquitaine's legions, with his strategies designed to win glory for himself and hurt the enemy while also leaving his own political rivals to take the brunt of the damage. Though the other legions suspected, Attis was subtle enough that nobody was ever able to confirm anything. Following the Vord invasion he continued in similar vein, skillfully commanding resistance to the invaders and making himself, effectively, Sextus's second-in-command. After Sextus died, he left instructions that Attis was officially to be adopted into the House of Gaius as his successor; he began styling himself First Lord Gaius Attis, and continued to lead the Aleran forces. His wife Invidia, on the other hand, was rescued from near death by the Vord and pressed into service as The Dragon to the Vord Queen. During a major battle, Attis laid a Batman Gambit to draw Invidia into single combat, which succeeded (he also served her divorce papers mid-duel, because that's how he rolled). Unfortunately, an Only Mostly Dead Invidia managed to mortally wound him. Refusing to let his injury stop him, Attis remained in charge of Alera's armies during his last, agonizing weeks of life, with his leadership playing a key role in holding Alera together and preventing its fall to the Vord. He died peacefully in his bed on the eve of the final battle, his only regret that he wouldn't live to see how the story ended. In the end, even his enemies mourned him as a great Aleran.
Is he charming? Charismatic? A planner?
Attis is incredibly charming - even when he's using his Obfuscating Stupidity, no one would deny that this is a man who knows how to lead and could make people follow him anywhere. He schemed for decades to bring Alera under his control, and probably would have succeeded had the Vord not shown up and ruined everyone's day. His capital city, Aquitaine, is explicitly noted to be beautiful and well-run, a testament to the fact that, despite his public persona, this is a highly competent man. Unlike High Lord Kalarus, who wants to seize the throne by violent revolt, Attis doesn't want to kill Sextus so much as position himself so well that when the old man finally dies, Attis will be the only possible choice to succeed him - a plan that worked well enough for Sextus to actually name him as heir, with a caveat. Ultimately, Sextus regards him as a Worthy Opponent, and several characters (including the Vord Queen herself) opine that they're Not So Different. Of course, it turns out that Sextus posthumously Out-Gambitted him (it was Sextus's cursor Ehren who'd, per the First Lord's final instructions ingratiated himself with Attis and convinced him to face Invidia with minimal backup), but Attis himself is less upset and more wryly impressed when he realizes what happened and why. Though not the Biggest Bad in the series' Big Bad Ensemble - that would be the Vord Queen - his scheming is present, whether in the foreground or background, for most of the Codex.
Is he a bastard? Too much of one?
Attis was perfectly willing to arrange an invasion of Alera by a foreign enemy, something several main characters absolutely will not forgive him for, and to sacrifice the lives of his fellow Alerans in battle because they're not part of his faction. He started out with good intentions, but as is explicitly observed, by the time of the main series he'd become what he hated - a corrupt, hypocritical, scheming High Lord. All the same, he's practically a saint compared to the sadistic freak High Lord Kalarus and even his own, chronically self-interested wife. And, in his last weeks, he seems to have found his way back at least somewhat to being the man who just wanted to build a better Alera, and manages to impress even his enemies.
Conclusion?
I don't think he's as strong a candidate as Sextus, but Attis still plays a very good game for very high stakes, and would probably have won but for factors outside his control. I'd give him a tentative .
Edited by MasterGhandalf on Aug 8th 2018 at 7:35:59 AM
Setus and Attis
Edited by lrrose on Aug 8th 2018 at 9:44:32 AM
Sure to Anarky. Any complications about him being a CM are nulled as there's been much worse and much more sadistic to qualify from the Batman cartoons, I think.